Stop voting for fucking Tories

[JM2K6]

I am hardly an expert on the Labour party but the majority of the moves make sense. Cooper was a front bencher under Corbyn, so fuck off McDonnell - and she's been put in a crucial role to oppose Priti Patel, which (if anyone's seen her performances in committees) should be pretty good to watch. Lammy is another who can make waves as shadow foreign sec and argues passionately. With Nandy in this "levelling up" role, that means everything the Tories are focusing on has some of Labour's best and most convincing speakers in the shadow roles.

Christ knows there's been enough criticism of Starmer for "not doing anything" when the Tories have been fucking up, and we've barely heard a peep from the shadow cabinet most of the time. Hopefully this marks an intention to go on the offensive.

[Slick]

I am hardly an expert on the Labour party but the majority of the moves make sense. Cooper was a front bencher under Corbyn, so fuck off McDonnell - and she's been put in a crucial role to oppose Priti Patel, which (if anyone's seen her performances in committees) should be pretty good to watch. Lammy is another who can make waves as shadow foreign sec and argues passionately. With Nandy in this "levelling up" role, that means everything the Tories are focusing on has some of Labour's best and most convincing speakers in the shadow roles.

Christ knows there's been enough criticism of Starmer for "not doing anything" when the Tories have been fucking up, and we've barely heard a peep from the shadow cabinet most of the time. Hopefully this marks an intention to go on the offensive.

Agree with most of this. Cooper is an actual politician and knows her way around, she needs to be front and centre. I like Nandy, she speaks well and intelligently. I also have a bit of a secret crush on her so will be good to see her more prominent. Lammy in the foreign sec role seems an odd one to me, can't see him him having much of an impact.

[I like neeps]

I am hardly an expert on the Labour party but the majority of the moves make sense. Cooper was a front bencher under Corbyn, so fuck off McDonnell - and she's been put in a crucial role to oppose Priti Patel, which (if anyone's seen her performances in committees) should be pretty good to watch. Lammy is another who can make waves as shadow foreign sec and argues passionately. With Nandy in this "levelling up" role, that means everything the Tories are focusing on has some of Labour's best and most convincing speakers in the shadow roles.

Christ knows there's been enough criticism of Starmer for "not doing anything" when the Tories have been fucking up, and we've barely heard a peep from the shadow cabinet most of the time. Hopefully this marks an intention to go on the offensive.

There's a pretty good argument to keep Cooper in committees where she does well, than shadow Home Secretary where she didn't though. .

The only way at Priti Patel is that she's ineffective at managing the migrant crisis and the only angle that will do Patel any damage is she needs to be stricter on migrants. She's seen as an enforcer on low immigration, she'll enjoy a reprieve talking about woke Labour and playing again to her base. It's a very hard balance to strike. You need to out flank Patel on the right to do her damage because she wants someone to disagree with on the left. That's why the Tories are so scared of Farage, they've won the argument on immigration so they need to see action now and not appear soft.

[petej]

I am hardly an expert on the Labour party but the majority of the moves make sense. Cooper was a front bencher under Corbyn, so fuck off McDonnell - and she's been put in a crucial role to oppose Priti Patel, which (if anyone's seen her performances in committees) should be pretty good to watch. Lammy is another who can make waves as shadow foreign sec and argues passionately. With Nandy in this "levelling up" role, that means everything the Tories are focusing on has some of Labour's best and most convincing speakers in the shadow roles.

Christ knows there's been enough criticism of Starmer for "not doing anything" when the Tories have been fucking up, and we've barely heard a peep from the shadow cabinet most of the time. Hopefully this marks an intention to go on the offensive.

There's a pretty good argument to keep Cooper in committees where she does well, than shadow Home Secretary where she didn't though. .

The only way at Priti Patel is that she's ineffective at managing the migrant crisis and the only angle that will do Patel any damage is she needs to be stricter on migrants. She's seen as an enforcer on low immigration, she'll enjoy a reprieve talking about woke Labour and playing again to her base. It's a very hard balance to strike. You need to out flank Patel on the right to do her damage because she wants someone to disagree with on the left. That's why the Tories are so scared of Farage, they've won the argument on immigration so they need to see action now and not appear soft.

"You need to out flank Patel on the right to do her damage because she wants someone to disagree with on the left"

This is why Corbyn was/is such an absolute gift to Johnson and his cabinet of grotesques. Hammering Johnson on corruption and incompetence while presenting a small target is a sensible tactic when as far we know an election is years away. It minimises Johnson's gifts and Starmer's flaws while playing to Johnson's weaknesses and Starmer's strengths.

[tabascoboy]

Well the whole migrant issue getting ever more toxic

The RNLI have confirmed one of their crews was blocked from going on a call by fishermen who said they did not want any more migrants being rescued after the incident was witnessed by an LBC caller.

A spokesperson for the charity confirmed the incident had been reported to the police, and that the lifeboat was eventually able to launch.

It comes as rescuers fear the "floating death trap" dinghy which capsized in the Channel, leading to the deaths of at least 27 people including children, may have collided with a container ship.

The caller told James O'Brien she witnessed fishermen blocking an RNLI lifeboat from rescuing migrants and shouting "don't bring any more of those home, we're full up".

Zoe in Hastings said: "On Saturday my boyfriend and I were just on the beach and we heard the lifeboat station opening up and thought 'oh they have a call' and started watching.

"There was a group of fisherman pulled up, gutting fish on the shore, and as the boat station opened up we heard the fisherman start shouting things like 'don't bring any more of those home, we're full up', 'that's why we stopped our donations', and that kind of really horrible stuff.

"It was really upsetting, and you could hear the hatred in their voice", she said.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/ ... -migrants/

I hope this was not representative of fisherman around the country, but Hastings fishermen should be ashamed of themselves even if they are in the "front-line"

[JM2K6]

I don't think it's acceptable for Labour to not attack Patel's right/far-right approach. Starmer will have to just take the risk of presenting a bigger target, because if Labour aren't prepared to fight against Patel from the left then it's hard to say what they do stand for.

[Tichtheid]

I don't think it's acceptable for Labour to not attack Patel's right/far-right approach. Starmer will have to just take the risk of presenting a bigger target, because if Labour aren't prepared to fight against Patel from the left then it's hard to say what they do stand for.

This.

If they want to lead the country they should show leadership now in opposition, pandering to the lowest, dehumanising, dog whistle instincts of the far right is not what Labour should be about.

This is not an easy discussion, there are no easy solutions, but criminalising the RNLI is not the way forward, it's a step away from people taking pot shots at dinghies from the beach - yes that's an exaggeration but I'm fucking angry.

[Tichtheid]

Oh btw, my dentist was deported last week as he was having real problems renewing his visa.

The practice hasn't been able to find a replacement yet, they've been trying for ages.

[I like neeps]

I don't think it's acceptable for Labour to not attack Patel's right/far-right approach. Starmer will have to just take the risk of presenting a bigger target, because if Labour aren't prepared to fight against Patel from the left then it's hard to say what they do stand for.

The Tories and UKIP absolutely hammered labour on immigration when Yvette Cooper was shadow home secretary in 2015. They didn't offer an impassioned defence of it then and I don't think they will now. Bring back the controls on immigration mug imo.

I think they should let the right wing tabloids hammer Patel over a crisis she can't control to be honest. Farage returning would probably be quite good for Labour as it's the Tories he'll damage this time.

[robmatic]

Oh btw, my dentist was deported last week as he was having real problems renewing his visa.

The practice hasn't been able to find a replacement yet, they've been trying for ages.

Actually deported? Because that happens relatively infrequently in the UK. More likely that he is a decent, law-abiding bloke frustrated with the visa procedures who returned of his own volition.

Most of our irregular migrants just overstay and keep off the radar because there isn't much enforcement activity.

One of the worst aspects of the Home Office's hostile environment policy is that it puts off the desirable immigrants but doesn't really affect the unwanted migration.

[JM2K6]

I don't think it's acceptable for Labour to not attack Patel's right/far-right approach. Starmer will have to just take the risk of presenting a bigger target, because if Labour aren't prepared to fight against Patel from the left then it's hard to say what they do stand for.

The Tories and UKIP absolutely hammered labour on immigration when Yvette Cooper was shadow home secretary in 2015. They didn't offer an impassioned defence of it then and I don't think they will now. Bring back the controls on immigration mug imo.

I think they should let the right wing tabloids hammer Patel over a crisis she can't control to be honest. Farage returning would probably be quite good for Labour as it's the Tories he'll damage this time.

Nah, fuck that. At some point actually standing for something has to matter more than just letting this shit happen. The problem with having the right wing have the stage for themselves is the Overton window continues to lurch to the right - giving all the airtime for Farage, Patel, the Daily Mail, the Sun, et al to set the terms of the argument is terrible for the future of this country, AND counter-productive for Labour's future hopes. They're not going to beat the Tories by being anti-immigration, but they will lose their own support. It's a very different time now, the anti-immigration types are more vicious and more extreme, and the effects of Brexit on immigration are being felt by businesses all over the place.

[Tichtheid]

Oh btw, my dentist was deported last week as he was having real problems renewing his visa.

The practice hasn't been able to find a replacement yet, they've been trying for ages.

Actually deported? Because that happens relatively infrequently in the UK. More likely that he is a decent, law-abiding bloke frustrated with the visa procedures who returned of his own volition.

He left the UK against his will and intends to continue his application process from abroad. I don't know how long he has been in the UK but he trained in Dundee and worked there before coming down south.

I don't know if leaving the UK against his will fits the definition of being deported, but it would be semantics to argue it didn't imo.

[robmatic]

Oh btw, my dentist was deported last week as he was having real problems renewing his visa.

The practice hasn't been able to find a replacement yet, they've been trying for ages.

Actually deported? Because that happens relatively infrequently in the UK. More likely that he is a decent, law-abiding bloke frustrated with the visa procedures who returned of his own volition.

He left the UK against his will and intends to continue his application process from abroad. I don't know how long he has been in the UK but he trained in Dundee and worked there before coming down south.

I don't know if leaving the UK against his will fits the definition of being deported, but it would be semantics to argue it didn't imo.

I understand deported as being the government took action to expel him.

Otherwise my wife has previously been deported - there are various non-dramatic aspects of the immigration system which involve having to leave the country to be able to make an application.

[JM2K6]

"Being told to leave the country" also counts here.

[Slick]

I am hardly an expert on the Labour party but the majority of the moves make sense. Cooper was a front bencher under Corbyn, so fuck off McDonnell - and she's been put in a crucial role to oppose Priti Patel, which (if anyone's seen her performances in committees) should be pretty good to watch. Lammy is another who can make waves as shadow foreign sec and argues passionately. With Nandy in this "levelling up" role, that means everything the Tories are focusing on has some of Labour's best and most convincing speakers in the shadow roles.

Christ knows there's been enough criticism of Starmer for "not doing anything" when the Tories have been fucking up, and we've barely heard a peep from the shadow cabinet most of the time. Hopefully this marks an intention to go on the offensive.

There's a pretty good argument to keep Cooper in committees where she does well, than shadow Home Secretary where she didn't though. .

I think there is an element of reminding people there is a Labour party and an opposition. These are all pretty well known figures (I see also Miliband has come back) so there is a case that even if they are no good at their jobs at least for the time being they are visible

[I like neeps]

I don't think it's acceptable for Labour to not attack Patel's right/far-right approach. Starmer will have to just take the risk of presenting a bigger target, because if Labour aren't prepared to fight against Patel from the left then it's hard to say what they do stand for.

The Tories and UKIP absolutely hammered labour on immigration when Yvette Cooper was shadow home secretary in 2015. They didn't offer an impassioned defence of it then and I don't think they will now. Bring back the controls on immigration mug imo.

I think they should let the right wing tabloids hammer Patel over a crisis she can't control to be honest. Farage returning would probably be quite good for Labour as it's the Tories he'll damage this time.

Nah, fuck that. At some point actually standing for something has to matter more than just letting this shit happen. The problem with having the right wing have the stage for themselves is the Overton window continues to lurch to the right - giving all the airtime for Farage, Patel, the Daily Mail, the Sun, et al to set the terms of the argument is terrible for the future of this country, AND counter-productive for Labour's future hopes. They're not going to beat the Tories by being anti-immigration, but they will lose their own support. It's a very different time now, the anti-immigration types are more vicious and more extreme, and the effects of Brexit on immigration are being felt by businesses all over the place.

I think we've had years of principled opposition to Patel and co. We've already seen Cooper as Home Secretary get taken to the cleaners on immigration stances as well.

I don't see how Labour beat the press and the Tories on immigration to be quite honest.

[I like neeps]

Science is not an exact science...

[petej]

The Tories and UKIP absolutely hammered labour on immigration when Yvette Cooper was shadow home secretary in 2015. They didn't offer an impassioned defence of it then and I don't think they will now. Bring back the controls on immigration mug imo.

I think they should let the right wing tabloids hammer Patel over a crisis she can't control to be honest. Farage returning would probably be quite good for Labour as it's the Tories he'll damage this time.

Nah, fuck that. At some point actually standing for something has to matter more than just letting this shit happen. The problem with having the right wing have the stage for themselves is the Overton window continues to lurch to the right - giving all the airtime for Farage, Patel, the Daily Mail, the Sun, et al to set the terms of the argument is terrible for the future of this country, AND counter-productive for Labour's future hopes. They're not going to beat the Tories by being anti-immigration, but they will lose their own support. It's a very different time now, the anti-immigration types are more vicious and more extreme, and the effects of Brexit on immigration are being felt by businesses all over the place.

I think we've had years of principled opposition to Patel and co. We've already seen Cooper as Home Secretary get taken to the cleaners on immigration stances as well.

I don't see how Labour beat the press and the Tories on immigration to be quite honest.

They can't and we can't have a proper discussion on it with the Tories in power. Not so sure the anti immigration types are more vicious and extreme they are just more comfortable being so publicly.

[JM2K6]

The Tories and UKIP absolutely hammered labour on immigration when Yvette Cooper was shadow home secretary in 2015. They didn't offer an impassioned defence of it then and I don't think they will now. Bring back the controls on immigration mug imo.

I think they should let the right wing tabloids hammer Patel over a crisis she can't control to be honest. Farage returning would probably be quite good for Labour as it's the Tories he'll damage this time.

Nah, fuck that. At some point actually standing for something has to matter more than just letting this shit happen. The problem with having the right wing have the stage for themselves is the Overton window continues to lurch to the right - giving all the airtime for Farage, Patel, the Daily Mail, the Sun, et al to set the terms of the argument is terrible for the future of this country, AND counter-productive for Labour's future hopes. They're not going to beat the Tories by being anti-immigration, but they will lose their own support. It's a very different time now, the anti-immigration types are more vicious and more extreme, and the effects of Brexit on immigration are being felt by businesses all over the place.

I think we've had years of principled opposition to Patel and co. We've already seen Cooper as Home Secretary get taken to the cleaners on immigration stances as well.

I don't see how Labour beat the press and the Tories on immigration to be quite honest.

We really haven't. We've had years of softly-softly, "don't interrupt your opponent when he's in the process of making a mistake" from Labour. It's been a clear tactic from Starmer.

The idea for Labour isn't to win at all costs. It's to be true to what they stand for and attract as many people to that cause as possible.

[I like neeps]

Michael Fabricant describes himself as "socially liberal".

[fishfoodie]

In just a 30 second clip of; Steve 'I make Nadine Dorries Look Smart' Baker on the news; bitching about the new restrictions for Covid; & first the shithead complained that there was no, "Impact Assessments", for the restrictions. Where was the concern for, "Impact Assessments", before Brexit ??

Then the next fucking thing he starts complaining how authoritarian the measures were.

Funny he's just voted for Pretty Vacants new Bill; that looks like something the Nazis would give the thmbs up to.

The complete lack of self-awareness just has me wondering if he's a cretin, or a sociopath, or a psychopath. But regardless; how the fuck does anyone vote for him ??

[petej]

In just a 30 second clip of; Steve 'I make Nadine Dorries Look Smart' Baker on the news; bitching about the new restrictions for Covid; & first the shithead complained that there was no, "Impact Assessments", for the restrictions. Where was the concern for, "Impact Assessments", before Brexit ??

Then the next fucking thing he starts complaining how authoritarian the measures were.

Funny he's just voted for Pretty Vacants new Bill; that looks like something the Nazis would give the thmbs up to.

The complete lack of self-awareness just has me wondering if he's a cretin, or a sociopath, or a psychopath. But regardless; how the fuck does anyone vote for him ??

He's a plastic/faux libertarian so I wouldn't expect anything consistent.

It is remarkable how many MPs I would have written off as loopy fuckwits in the late 00's early 10's are so prominent currently or recently.

[fishfoodie]

In just a 30 second clip of; Steve 'I make Nadine Dorries Look Smart' Baker on the news; bitching about the new restrictions for Covid; & first the shithead complained that there was no, "Impact Assessments", for the restrictions. Where was the concern for, "Impact Assessments", before Brexit ??

Then the next fucking thing he starts complaining how authoritarian the measures were.

Funny he's just voted for Pretty Vacants new Bill; that looks like something the Nazis would give the thmbs up to.

The complete lack of self-awareness just has me wondering if he's a cretin, or a sociopath, or a psychopath. But regardless; how the fuck does anyone vote for him ??

He's a plastic/faux libertarian so I wouldn't expect anything consistent.

It is remarkable how many MPs I would have written off as loopy fuckwits in the late 00's early 10's are so prominent currently or recently.

It's like Darwin had never been born; because this is clearly the survival of the unfittest

[Tichtheid]

I could have posted today's Marina Hyde article here by the looks of things, it's on the Covid thread

[robmatic]

In just a 30 second clip of; Steve 'I make Nadine Dorries Look Smart' Baker on the news; bitching about the new restrictions for Covid; & first the shithead complained that there was no, "Impact Assessments", for the restrictions. Where was the concern for, "Impact Assessments", before Brexit ??

Then the next fucking thing he starts complaining how authoritarian the measures were.

Funny he's just voted for Pretty Vacants new Bill; that looks like something the Nazis would give the thmbs up to.

The complete lack of self-awareness just has me wondering if he's a cretin, or a sociopath, or a psychopath. But regardless; how the fuck does anyone vote for him ??

He's a plastic/faux libertarian so I wouldn't expect anything consistent.

It is remarkable how many MPs I would have written off as loopy fuckwits in the late 00's early 10's are so prominent currently or recently.

All the more reasonable Tory MPs were Remain and have been eased out of Parliament after Brexit, there's only the swivel-eyed loons left.

[SaintK]

You just know this is true!!!

The prime minister gave a speech at a packed leaving do for a top aide last November when the country was in the grip of its second lockdown.
Then just days before Christmas, with London in tier 3 restrictions, members of his top team held their own festive bash in Downing Street.
Officials knocked back glasses of wine during a Christmas quiz and a Secret Santa while the rest of the country was forced to stay at home.
Around “40 or 50” people were said to have been crammed “cheek by jowl” into a medium-sized room in No 10 for each of the two events.
“It was a Covid nightmare,” one source claimed.

[Lobby]

I am hardly an expert on the Labour party but the majority of the moves make sense. Cooper was a front bencher under Corbyn, so fuck off McDonnell - and she's been put in a crucial role to oppose Priti Patel, which (if anyone's seen her performances in committees) should be pretty good to watch. Lammy is another who can make waves as shadow foreign sec and argues passionately. With Nandy in this "levelling up" role, that means everything the Tories are focusing on has some of Labour's best and most convincing speakers in the shadow roles.

Christ knows there's been enough criticism of Starmer for "not doing anything" when the Tories have been fucking up, and we've barely heard a peep from the shadow cabinet most of the time. Hopefully this marks an intention to go on the offensive.

There's a pretty good argument to keep Cooper in committees where she does well, than shadow Home Secretary where she didn't though. .

I think there is an element of reminding people there is a Labour party and an opposition. These are all pretty well known figures (I see also Miliband has come back) so there is a case that even if they are no good at their jobs at least for the time being they are visible

The fact that Ed Miliband hasn’t just come back, but has been the Shadow Minister for Business for the last 18 months and you hadn’t noticed says quite a lot about how quiet Labour’s front bench has been in the past year.

[I like neeps]

I don't think it's acceptable for Labour to not attack Patel's right/far-right approach. Starmer will have to just take the risk of presenting a bigger target, because if Labour aren't prepared to fight against Patel from the left then it's hard to say what they do stand for.

I think you'll be disappointed to see Cooper's actual views on immigration:



The position she held was that immigration must come down because it's damaging whilst still bringing in the right people and then gave the examples of business owners and Olympic gold medalists (without naming any example of who she meant) and students for the cash. She was particularly against "low skilled" immigration - which is exactly the type of immigration the last few months have shown we need. The policy was trying to keep UKIP voters on side - which you won't do with a progressive case for immigration so they barely made one. It was the same as the Tories "numbers are too high". So what is she going to do now? Suggest we've not got enough "low skilled" immigration and play that politically toxic football.... Unlikely. Also what benefit does it have? People don't actually mind the emptier shelves and higher costs as 6 months in it's barely a talking point.

A progressive case on immigration is not possible for Labour with (a) Yvette Cooper as shadow home secretary as she isn't interested in making one and (b) the media environment we live in.

People can dislike and disagree with Diane Abbott all they want. But she did stick to her beliefs on immigration. And how did that go for her? Very badly. There is no progressive case for immigration in the UK that will gain mass support. Just yesterday a man stopped an RNLI boat going to help migrants. That is the country we live in I'm afraid.

[SaintK]

Rees-Mogg's turn
£6M of cheap loans for an office refurbishment

The parliamentary commissioner for standards has begun a formal investigation into Jacob Rees-Mogg after a complaint from Labour that he failed to declare that he received £6m in cheap loans from one of his companies.

The website for the commissioner, Kathryn Stone, has been updated to show that Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, is among MPs being investigated. It says the inquiry concerns the section on rules for MPs connected to the declaration of employment and earnings.

Rees-Mogg did not report to the official register that he received director’s loans from Saliston between 2018 and 2020.

The North East Somerset MP owns Saliston, even though he gave up his directorship in 2019. It has a stake in Rees-Mogg’s Somerset Capital Management investment company.

Rees-Mogg says the loans were mainly used as “temporary cashflow measures” to pay for an office refurbishment, and did not need to be declared.

[sockwithaticket]

I don't think it's acceptable for Labour to not attack Patel's right/far-right approach. Starmer will have to just take the risk of presenting a bigger target, because if Labour aren't prepared to fight against Patel from the left then it's hard to say what they do stand for.

I think you'll be disappointed to see Cooper's actual views on immigration:



The position she held was that immigration must come down because it's damaging whilst still bringing in the right people and then gave the examples of business owners and Olympic gold medalists (without naming any example of who she meant) and students for the cash. She was particularly against "low skilled" immigration - which is exactly the type of immigration the last few months have shown we need. The policy was trying to keep UKIP voters on side - which you won't do with a progressive case for immigration so they barely made one. It was the same as the Tories "numbers are too high". So what is she going to do now? Suggest we've not got enough "low skilled" immigration and play that politically toxic football.... Unlikely. Also what benefit does it have? People don't actually mind the emptier shelves and higher costs as 6 months in it's barely a talking point.

A progressive case on immigration is not possible for Labour with (a) Yvette Cooper as shadow home secretary as she isn't interested in making one and (b) the media environment we live in.

People can dislike and disagree with Diane Abbott all they want. But she did stick to her beliefs on immigration. And how did that go for her? Very badly. There is no progressive case for immigration in the UK that will gain mass support. Just yesterday a man stopped an RNLI boat going to help migrants. That is the country we live in I'm afraid.

How so? My impression is that we don't need more unskilled labour, we need certain sectors to pay a livable wage and the utilisation of unskilled migrant labour has long been a tool to avoid doing that.

[I like neeps]

I don't think it's acceptable for Labour to not attack Patel's right/far-right approach. Starmer will have to just take the risk of presenting a bigger target, because if Labour aren't prepared to fight against Patel from the left then it's hard to say what they do stand for.

I think you'll be disappointed to see Cooper's actual views on immigration:



The position she held was that immigration must come down because it's damaging whilst still bringing in the right people and then gave the examples of business owners and Olympic gold medalists (without naming any example of who she meant) and students for the cash. She was particularly against "low skilled" immigration - which is exactly the type of immigration the last few months have shown we need. The policy was trying to keep UKIP voters on side - which you won't do with a progressive case for immigration so they barely made one. It was the same as the Tories "numbers are too high". So what is she going to do now? Suggest we've not got enough "low skilled" immigration and play that politically toxic football.... Unlikely. Also what benefit does it have? People don't actually mind the emptier shelves and higher costs as 6 months in it's barely a talking point.

A progressive case on immigration is not possible for Labour with (a) Yvette Cooper as shadow home secretary as she isn't interested in making one and (b) the media environment we live in.

People can dislike and disagree with Diane Abbott all they want. But she did stick to her beliefs on immigration. And how did that go for her? Very badly. There is no progressive case for immigration in the UK that will gain mass support. Just yesterday a man stopped an RNLI boat going to help migrants. That is the country we live in I'm afraid.

How so? My impression is that we don't need more unskilled labour, we need certain sectors to pay a livable wage and the utilisation of unskilled migrant labour has long been a tool to avoid doing that.

I agree that's a big part of it. But we have serious labour shortages with rising salaries etc and unemployment is quite low. It'll take a long time to build the skill base anyway. Low skilled immigration is good to plug gaps.

[JM2K6]

I don't think it's acceptable for Labour to not attack Patel's right/far-right approach. Starmer will have to just take the risk of presenting a bigger target, because if Labour aren't prepared to fight against Patel from the left then it's hard to say what they do stand for.

I think you'll be disappointed to see Cooper's actual views on immigration:



The position she held was that immigration must come down because it's damaging whilst still bringing in the right people and then gave the examples of business owners and Olympic gold medalists (without naming any example of who she meant) and students for the cash. She was particularly against "low skilled" immigration - which is exactly the type of immigration the last few months have shown we need. The policy was trying to keep UKIP voters on side - which you won't do with a progressive case for immigration so they barely made one. It was the same as the Tories "numbers are too high". So what is she going to do now? Suggest we've not got enough "low skilled" immigration and play that politically toxic football.... Unlikely. Also what benefit does it have? People don't actually mind the emptier shelves and higher costs as 6 months in it's barely a talking point.

A progressive case on immigration is not possible for Labour with (a) Yvette Cooper as shadow home secretary as she isn't interested in making one and (b) the media environment we live in.

People can dislike and disagree with Diane Abbott all they want. But she did stick to her beliefs on immigration. And how did that go for her? Very badly. There is no progressive case for immigration in the UK that will gain mass support. Just yesterday a man stopped an RNLI boat going to help migrants. That is the country we live in I'm afraid.

I'm well aware that she's pretty right wing (particularly for Labour). But the reason why she's a better bet than Abbott isn't because of how their beliefs differ, it's because of their personalities, how they get their beliefs across, and the damage they can do to the people opposite them. Abbott's a gift to the opposing party.

Patel is so far to the right at the moment that Cooper can do what she does best without straying far from her own beliefs. She'll be an attack dog as her primary role. Denouncing Patel's proto-fascism isn't beyond her, even given her (really not very liberal) views on immigration.

Of course, maybe she'll surprise both of us and change her mind for the good of the party, like several high-profile Tories did with Brexit.

The RNLI incident is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about when I say there's been a lurch to the right, and that the anti-immigration types are far more vicious now. It doesn't mean that large numbers of people who might well vote Labour aren't appalled by people like that, though.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

You don't often see Yvette Cooper described as pretty right wing. That did make me smile.

[JM2K6]

You don't often see Yvette Cooper described as pretty right wing. That did make me smile.

For a Labour MP she is. Obviously compared to the current Tories, not so much.

[tabascoboy]

Commons leader Jacob Rees-Mogg is being investigated over a possible breach of rules on declaring outside earnings.

Commons standards commissioner Kathryn Stone did not reveal details of the allegations.

But they are understood to relate to £6m in loans Mr Rees-Mogg received from one of his own companies to help buy and renovate his Westminster home.

The watchdog is also investigating Scottish Tory leader Douglas Ross for possible standards breaches.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59491565

[Margin__Walker]

This is solid gold.

[SaintK]

This is solid gold.

........but, but, but, all the rules in place were followed

[fishfoodie]

This presumably would be a straight forward complaint to the police, & then the Met hands out a shitload of fines; or the Met gets to explain the special circumstances that made a covid party permissible in the middle of a lockdown ?

If an MP can get fined a photo of them without a mask; there should be no reason why everyone who attended the party doesn't get fined.

[Insane_Homer]

........but, but, but, all the rules in place were followed

Tory Laura K off of the BBC toeing that party line

[Insane_Homer]

Matt Hancock declares that taxpayer funded NHS contracts dished out to his pub landlord mate, his horsey friend, his sister's company and the brother of the woman he is shagging are all legit and most definitely aren't cronyism or corruption.