737 Max to fly again

[fishfoodie]

Ouch.

Boeing has agreed to pay $2.5bn (£1.8bn) to settle US criminal charges that it hid information from safety officials about the design of its 737 Max planes.

The US Justice Department said the firm chose "profit over candour", impeding oversight of the planes, which were involved in two deadly crashes.

About $500m will go to families of the 346 people killed in the tragedies.

Boeing said the agreement acknowledged how the firm "fell short".

I assume there are similar cases in every other jurisdiction where the MAX was certified ?

[mat the expat]

I see the Dreamliner is also experiencing big issues....

[Lemoentjie]

Sounds like a 737 in Indonesia has crashed after take off.

[Uncle fester]

Is this a max?

BBC News - Indonesia passenger plane missing after take-off
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55601909

Edit: appears to be a 737-500.

[Torquemada 1420]

Is this a max?

BBC News - Indonesia passenger plane missing after take-off
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55601909

Edit: appears to be a 737-500.

Not a Max but more trouble for Boeing with these pieces of sh*t.

[Chrysoprase]

The latest installment in this unhappy saga: Boeing 737 cleared to fly again 'too early' - BBC News

[Torquemada 1420]

Not Max related but the Post Office was delayed when this one got crunched last week at Exeter. Pilot must have been blind drunk to cause that amount of damage:
https://ukaviation.news/west-atlantic-7 ... at-exeter/

[GogLais]

Not Max related but the Post Office was delayed when this one got crunched last week at Exeter. Pilot must have been blind drunk to cause that amount of damage:
https://ukaviation.news/west-atlantic-7 ... at-exeter/

Well there goes the No Claims Bonus.

[Torquemada 1420]

Good old Boeing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56141673

[Biffer]

Airline safety is like Govts. People place an almost blind faith in their safety.

What’s the alternative?

Never take for granted what your life is reliant upon? I never trust a climbing rope I don't know.

So, like, do you never get on a plane without checking the engine yourself first? Never go over a bridge until you've been down to inspect the foundations?

[Torquemada 1420]

So, like, do you never get on a plane without checking the engine yourself first? Never go over a bridge until you've been down to inspect the foundations?

Yes. That's a good analogy. There is a distinction between using a product that has known safety issues and one that has not.

[Lemoentjie]

US and Japan have grounded 777s. Apparently there were similar incidents to the Colorado one in Indonesia and the Netherlands, engine failure after take-off.

[Saint]

Japan grounds all 777 fitted with Pratt and Witney engines

[Paddington Bear]

What's going on here? Planes not at fighting weight because of being used less? Nightmare for Boeing regardless.

[Torquemada 1420]

What's going on here? Planes not at fighting weight because of being used less? Nightmare for Boeing regardless.

Don't think we have enough data. This a pretty old engine design so would want to see what the engine hours were on all the failed ones before going full on speculation.

Other than having a laugh at Boeing's expense (because they are ****s and karma and all that), the reality is it appears to be an engine manufacturing issue which is almost certainly beyond Boeing's control.

[Saint]

What's going on here? Planes not at fighting weight because of being used less? Nightmare for Boeing regardless.

Don't think we have enough data. This a pretty old engine design so would want to see what the engine hours were on all the failed ones before going full on speculation.

Other than having a laugh at Boeing's expense (because they are ****s and karma and all that), the reality is it appears to be an engine manufacturing issue which is almost certainly beyond Boeing's control.

Bits fgalling off some 747-400 engines as well over the weekend. Could also be P&W but I can't see for sure

Agree it;s not really in their control, but the punches keep coming in for them

[Torquemada 1420]

What's going on here? Planes not at fighting weight because of being used less? Nightmare for Boeing regardless.

Don't think we have enough data. This a pretty old engine design so would want to see what the engine hours were on all the failed ones before going full on speculation.

Other than having a laugh at Boeing's expense (because they are ****s and karma and all that), the reality is it appears to be an engine manufacturing issue which is almost certainly beyond Boeing's control.

Bits fgalling off some 747-400 engines as well over the weekend. Could also be P&W but I can't see for sure

Agree it;s not really in their control, but the punches keep coming in for them

They've gotten away with murder. Literally. Imagine the lawsuit if one of those nacelle rings had landed in a crowd!

I assume the 747s are all cargo: because I thought everyone had canned them for passenger ops due to COVID?

{EDIT} Hah. I see it's a variant of the same P&W. As you say, the gifts keep on giving.

[Fangle]

Wall Street Journal has it that United are buying 25 new 737 Max jets.

[Saint]

Wall Street Journal has it that United are buying 25 new 737 Max jets.

I'm not sure you can call it "buying" if you're only paying $5 each

[inactionman]

This one is new. An issue with the 737, but not its control system.

https://archive.ph/YsTla

The plane made an emergency landing in Portland, Ore., after losing a chunk of its fuselage, according to passengers.

If it's not one thing it's another.

@asmo - is archive.ph link OK, or do you want me to remove?

[laurent]

This one is new. An issue with the 737, but not its control system.

https://archive.ph/YsTla

The plane made an emergency landing in Portland, Ore., after losing a chunk of its fuselage, according to passengers.

If it's not one thing it's another.

@asmo - is archive.ph link OK, or do you want me to remove?

And the plane is new (november delivery).

[petej]

This one is new. An issue with the 737, but not its control system.

https://archive.ph/YsTla

The plane made an emergency landing in Portland, Ore., after losing a chunk of its fuselage, according to passengers.

If it's not one thing it's another.

@asmo - is archive.ph link OK, or do you want me to remove?

And the plane is new (november delivery).

The constant issues at Boeing show that the balance between engineering and management/accountants is missing. They will be cutting things and taking short cuts that just adds to the problems and cost them more money which means further short cuts and cost cutting.

[Dogbert]

What's the saying now

"If it's Boeing, I ain't going "

[Uncle fester]

171 planes grounded.
Share Message - FAA orders grounding of 171 Boeing planes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67903655

[TheNatalShark]

the only reason we see US planes grounded, is because they actually make planes, where as in Europe they are just regulated/state driven to extinction so no-one makes any

something something

[fishfoodie]

What's the saying now

"If it's Boeing, I ain't going "

Same is true for Alaskan as far as I'm concerned; they've way, too many issues in their history.

[Uncle fester]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/fAXzPrYF40

[Flockwitt]

What's the saying now

"If it's Boeing, I ain't going "

Same is true for Alaskan as far as I'm concerned; they've way, too many issues in their history.

Yep, Alaskan has had a bad rep for decades.

[Sandstorm]

What's the saying now

"If it's Boeing, I ain't going "

Same is true for Alaskan as far as I'm concerned; they've way, too many issues in their history.

Yep, Alaskan has had a bad rep for decades.

I’m flying on Alaska from LA to Maui in April. Gulp.

BTW this exact same plane had to have the front left door removed and refitted a month ago. Boeing’s manufacturing quality is very shit these days.

[Flockwitt]

Same is true for Alaskan as far as I'm concerned; they've way, too many issues in their history.

Yep, Alaskan has had a bad rep for decades.

I’m flying on Alaska from LA to Maui in April. Gulp.

BTW this exact same plane had to have the front left door removed and refitted a month ago. Boeing’s manufacturing quality is very shit these days.

Again, yep, Boeing's quality culture destruction and stock price driven management ethos has been well commented on.

[fishfoodie]

I couldn't understand how it was being reported that a child on the emergency row had their t-shirt ripped off by the decompression; because there should never be a child on that row !

Thanks to Juan it's now clearer. The exits on this row were decommissioned, because the airplane was delivered in a low density configuration, i.e. less than 200 passengers, so these exits weren't required, & thus blanked off.



But it does put it squarely back in Boeing's lap, allbeit with the issue potentially being moved from a systemic, to a discrete failure in their quality system.

The NTSB need to urgently find the door, & establish why it wasn't properly secured, & then if an audit of the other similarly configured aircraft doesn't reveal any similar issues, people will feel a lot safer getting on them.

[petej]

Yay loose bolts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67919436

[fishfoodie]

Yay loose bolts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67919436

Yeah; so now every airline that's taken possession of a Boeing in the last while is asking themselves what other nuts the Boeing guys forgot to tighten !

I'm even a bit suspicious that this case was loose nuts, because if they were just loose I'd have expected more damage & from some of the photos the ears on the body aren't even bent let alone damaged, so I'm not sure there even were nuts on this door.

[Thor Sedan]

I am an incredibly nervous flyer and am about to embark on a Scotland to NZ journey - flying A320 Neo, A350-900 and A330-200......I am barely able to sleep at the moment.

All these headlines and happenings are causing me no end of worries.

Diazepam it is then!

[Sandstorm]

I am an incredibly nervous flyer and am about to embark on a Scotland to NZ journey - flying A320 Neo, A350-900 and A330-200......I am barely able to sleep at the moment.

All these headlines and happenings are causing me no end of worries.

Diazepam it is then!

Should be really bumpy when you fly into Singapore, but I'm sure the pilot has that massive A350 with all 360 people on board in his thoughts and prayers.

[Thor Sedan]

I am an incredibly nervous flyer and am about to embark on a Scotland to NZ journey - flying A320 Neo, A350-900 and A330-200......I am barely able to sleep at the moment.

All these headlines and happenings are causing me no end of worries.

Diazepam it is then!

Should be really bumpy when you fly into Singapore, but I'm sure the pilot has that massive A350 with all 360 people on board in his thoughts and prayers.

Thank feck I'm not flying into Singapore then!

[fishfoodie]

I wonder if Boeing have been playing the old BNFL game, & falsifying, or just skipping checks, because they were so confident in their processes, & they never found any problems anyway ?

Part of the process is supposed to be pressurizing the cabin to 1.5 atmospheres, to check for leaks; now if as I suspect, the bolts to secure the plug door were never actually installed, it's surprising that they never found any issues, but when the aircraft went into service they had a series of alarms, for cabin pressurization no less !

But instead of grounding the airplane until they'd found a root cause of the alarms, the mercenary pricks in the airline decided to keep the aircraft in service, but restrict it's operations, & that last flight the airplane only got to 16k ft & ~ 0.5 atmosphere difference between internal & external pressure, before the door blew out, when this exact same pressure difference was passed with flying colours previously ?

I think I'd take a Carnival cruise before I'd get on a MAX

[petej]

I see the Dreamliner is also experiencing big issues....

Boeing screwed Rolls-Royce with changing engine requirements on the dreamliner and instead of pushing back to properly re-engineer the Trent 1000 instead RR management just pushed it through to meet boeings timeline and it all went to shit.

[Guy Smiley]

I am an incredibly nervous flyer and am about to embark on a Scotland to NZ journey - flying A320 Neo, A350-900 and A330-200......I am barely able to sleep at the moment.

All these headlines and happenings are causing me no end of worries.

Diazepam it is then!

Should be really bumpy when you fly into Singapore, but I'm sure the pilot has that massive A350 with all 360 people on board in his thoughts and prayers.

Never had any drama with turbulence flying into Changi. Of course, I was flying south to north so the coriolis effect wouldn't have been a factor.

[Insane_Homer]