N***er goooone!...

[TB63]

Dambusters dog's memorial replaced by RAF to remove its racist name
The much-loved squadron dog died on the same night that his owner breached the famous German dams during the Second World War.
The headstone of a grave to the Dambusters' dog has been replaced - with no mention of its racist name.

Wing Commander Guy Gibson used his dog's name - the n-word - as a code phrase to confirm which German dams they were bombing during the Second World War had been breached.

The black labrador retriever died after being hit by a car on the same night in 1943 as what was probably the most famous raid in the history of the 617 Squadron, based at RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire.
Almost 80 years on, his headstone has been removed from Scampton - and replaced with a gravestone that tells his story but without his name.

A spokesman for the RAF said: "As part of an ongoing review of its historical assets, the RAF have replaced the gravestone of Guy Gibson's dog at RAF Scampton.
"The new gravestone tells the story of Guy Gibson's dog, but its name has been removed."

An RAF source has told the Press Association news agency that the old gravestone would be stored in a safe location, while the Air Historical Branch considers its next steps.

The world's gone fucking mad....

[Lobby]

Not really a surprise. I think they’ve cut the name from TV showings of the film for the last 20 years, and in the planned remake it’s been renamed Digger.

[I like neeps]

It's an unacceptable name. It's also irrelevant. The dambusters story is great even without the dogs name being a racist slur.

[Biffer]

It's an unacceptable name. It's also irrelevant. The dambusters story is great even without the dogs name being a racist slur.

Yeah, it’s not as if it was part of the story. It was a pet with a racist name.

[TB63]

Wing Commander Guy Gibson used his dog's name - the n-word - as a code phrase to confirm which German dams they were bombing during the Second World War had been breached.

Fairly important part of history..?

[sockwithaticket]

Wing Commander Guy Gibson used his dog's name - the n-word - as a code phrase to confirm which German dams they were bombing during the Second World War had been breached.

Fairly important part of history..?

Pretty minor in the scheme of things and as a factoid it in no way requires knowledge of the dog's name on the part of the reader to work.

[Wyndham Upalot]

Pleased that it's been replaced. The enormity of their contribution however, isn't diminished one bit. What was acceptable in the 40's ... their heroic sacrifices in the face of the most horrific terror of the 20th century arguably far outweighs their passive racialism. Not an excuse of course, but how can we 80 yrs later be judge, jury and executioner on these people from a completely different era and mindset? Or, can we? Discuss.

[TB63]

How much history should be erased to prevent people from feeling offended? The pyramids were built by slaves, tear them down?..

[Ali Cadoo]

We get it, TB - you think the N-bomb is a suitable word for black people and you can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

[Margin__Walker]

I'm not sure we're quite at the tearing down one of the 7 wonders of the world stage yet.

A plaque has been amended so that it no longer says N**ger

Slippery slope, world gorn mad etc. But how anyone finds the energy to get angry about this is beyond me.

[sockwithaticket]

How much history should be erased to prevent people from feeling offended? The pyramids were built by slaves, tear them down?..

How utterly histrionic.

[TB63]

We get it, TB - you think the N-bomb is a suitable word for black people and you can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

Er. No. Considering my ex is Jamacian, I never would consider using the N word in a derogatory fashion, I find it appalling. I also find this rewriting of history appalling, anything considered offensive is being removed. You can't change history, it happened, live with it. Brushing it under the carpet will only serve to remove learnings from the past, mistakes have been made, learn from it. Don't repeat those mistakes..

[TB63]

Double post..

[sockwithaticket]

We get it, TB - you think the N-bomb is a suitable word for black people and you can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

Er. No. Considering my ex is Jamacian, I never would consider using the N word in a derogatory fashion, I find it appalling. I also find this rewriting of history appalling, anything considered offensive is being removed. You can't change history, it happened, live with it. Brushing it under the carpet will only serve to remove learnings from the past, mistakes have been made, learn from it. Don't repeat those mistakes..

No one's re-naming the dog, history isn't being changed.What learning is being removed here? That naming a service dog the N-word was still acceptable in the 1940s?

Knowing the dog's name is in no way material to the snippet of information that the Dambusters' Commander used it as a code word. As a factoid it works quite sufficiently without that level of detail.

This is such a bizarrely small hill on which to fight.

[Ali Cadoo]

Thanks Sock, eloquently put.

Some of TB’s best exes were black, etc.

[TB63]

Thanks Sock, eloquently put.

Some of TB’s best exes were black, etc.

If you doubt the veracity of my claim, ask any boredie who knows me on Facebook. ..

[Ali Cadoo]

I doubt the thinking of any snowflake that melts over the removal of an offensive term from a public place, especially one honouring the military.

[TB63]

So you also agree with the renaming proposal of some streets in Carmarthen.?

[Plato’sCave]

To be fair that racist dog probably deserved what happened. His silence was violence.

[Wyndham Upalot]

So you also agree with the renaming proposal of some streets in Carmarthen.?

Fuck that!

[Ali Cadoo]

Is that Picton St? I don’t know the ins and outs of that but if Picton was - as claimed - a racist murderer then why should he have a street named after him? What message does that send out?

[Wyndham Upalot]

His views were abhorrent, especially now. But, where do we ever draw that line when regarding history? Most town folk really couldn't give a fuck. Are we turning into DAESH in our desires to erase the past in everything that offends us? I hope not.

[Ali Cadoo]

I quite like the idea of re-naming streets that were originally named after really bad people, maybe the kids will ask why it is happening and they can learn the lesson that being a really bad person will not bring you rewards.

I do agree that it might be hard to draw the line as to where this might stop, though. But let’s assume that racist murderers should not be commemorated.

[Wyndham Upalot]

And there in lies the problem; who, where or what is the definition of a racist? Picton wasn't nice for much of his life for sure, however at the time of his memorial, he was considered a local hero and benefactor. My point remains, do we become people who hate our past to the extent of extinguishing it, or reflecting and accepting it as what it was, history?

[the cursed]

We get it, TB - you think the N-bomb is a suitable word for black people and you can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

so will black people stop calling each other the n-word? its rife in American culture, and if they are adamant that racist epitaphs need to be removed, then they should lead by example.. I await the day all the rap music has the word removed, as well as hoes, bitches etc.. theyre derogatory too, and Im sure they'll offend someone somewhere.

[MungoMan]

Gosh golly, one might reasonably think reasonable folk would be over this type of thing by now. And perhaps they are.

Others, however...

Even here in Casual Racism Central, plenty of race-based epithets used in names of places, structures etc have been removed in the last two decades. In fact, the failure to remove one became a cause célèbre here in sunny Qld and beyond.

Former Qld and Strayan rep rugby league player Edwin Stanley ‘Nigger’ Brown had a sports ground stand named for him in his hometown of Toowoomba. (Mr Brown was of the caucasian persuasion, btw). A campaign to have the stand name truncated by removing the offending term was not successful. Altho’ the stand was eventually demolished, while it was still - ahem - standing there were many all-too-willing to argue against renaming it because rewriting history, who can be genuinely offended by a nickname, etc.

The same debate played out in a rugby league newsgroup where I was a regular poster, and my view at the time hasn’t budged much since. Specifically, dropping the use in a publicly-owned facility of a term that reasonable people may reasonably fInd deeply offensive doesn’t ‘rewrite history’ - old newspapers, books etc won’t magically self-redact the term - plus the argument dodges the crucial question of what was offensive to whom, when.

If ES Brown had been known to his teammates as, say, Cuntlips, what are the chances that would ever have been reported In newspapers, repeated on the radio etc back in the 1920s when he was playing? To the nearest approximation, I’d say 3/5 of fuckall. Ditto the chances of the nickname emblazoning a sports ground stand many, many decades later.

Because, y’know, offensive.

[towny]

Dambusters dog's memorial replaced by RAF to remove its racist name
The much-loved squadron dog died on the same night that his owner breached the famous German dams during the Second World War.
The headstone of a grave to the Dambusters' dog has been replaced - with no mention of its racist name.

Wing Commander Guy Gibson used his dog's name - the n-word - as a code phrase to confirm which German dams they were bombing during the Second World War had been breached.

The black labrador retriever died after being hit by a car on the same night in 1943 as what was probably the most famous raid in the history of the 617 Squadron, based at RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire.
Almost 80 years on, his headstone has been removed from Scampton - and replaced with a gravestone that tells his story but without his name.

A spokesman for the RAF said: "As part of an ongoing review of its historical assets, the RAF have replaced the gravestone of Guy Gibson's dog at RAF Scampton.
"The new gravestone tells the story of Guy Gibson's dog, but its name has been removed."

An RAF source has told the Press Association news agency that the old gravestone would be stored in a safe location, while the Air Historical Branch considers its next steps.

The world's gone fucking mad....

Poor dog.....

Who gives a f*ck that his memorial is gone ffs?

[towny]

We get it, TB - you think the N-bomb is a suitable word for black people and you can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

Er. No. Considering my ex is Jamacian, I never would consider using the N word in a derogatory fashion, I find it appalling. I also find this rewriting of history appalling, anything considered offensive is being removed. You can't change history, it happened, live with it. Brushing it under the carpet will only serve to remove learnings from the past, mistakes have been made, learn from it. Don't repeat those mistakes..

No one's re-naming the dog, history isn't being changed.What learning is being removed here? That naming a service dog the N-word was still acceptable in the 1940s?

Knowing the dog's name is in no way material to the snippet of information that the Dambusters' Commander used it as a code word. As a factoid it works quite sufficiently without that level of detail.

This is such a bizarrely small hill on which to fight.

Small hills is all racists have left.

And yes, if you’re sad about this, you must be racist, as there is no other reason why this makes sense.
Preserving history? Gtfo!

[Insane_Homer]

Not really a surprise. I think they’ve cut the name from TV showings of the film for the last 20 years, and in the planned remake it’s been renamed Digger.

Nope, the last 2 times I've watched it on terrestrial TV channels in the UK it was left in.

[Sandstorm]

I quite like the idea of re-naming streets that were originally named after really bad people, maybe the kids will ask why it is happening and they can learn the lesson that being a really bad person will not bring you rewards.

I do agree that it might be hard to draw the line as to where this might stop, though. But let’s assume that racist murderers should not be commemorated.

South Africa has renamed whole provinces! And hundreds of streets. It’s not a problem, people just use the new names and get on with it.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

You can even buy The Nigger of the 'Narcissus' as The Children of the Sea or The N-word of the 'Narcissus'

[JM2K6]

We get it, TB - you think the N-bomb is a suitable word for black people and you can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

Er. No. Considering my ex is Jamacian, I never would consider using the N word in a derogatory fashion, I find it appalling. I also find this rewriting of history appalling, anything considered offensive is being removed. You can't change history, it happened, live with it. Brushing it under the carpet will only serve to remove learnings from the past, mistakes have been made, learn from it. Don't repeat those mistakes..

Mate, it's a fucking dog that had a racist name because its owner was a racist who was also a good pilot.

[Biffer]

People need to get over themselves. Street names have been changed throughout history to memorialise or mark things that society at that time wanted to mark. Statues have been replaced for similar reasons.

It's a current, vital society that is still doing things that are worth doing that keeps changing. One that looks only to the past for its public displays is a country on its way out.

[Lobby]

People need to get over themselves. Street names have been changed throughout history to memorialise or mark things that society at that time wanted to mark. Statues have been replaced for similar reasons.

It's a current, vital society that is still doing things that are worth doing that keeps changing. One that looks only to the past for its public displays is a country on its way out.

Indeed, Gropecunt Lane was a common street name in the middle ages, but fell out of use as social mores changed, and the existing streets had their names changed to something more innocuous. I doubt anyone would think it an acceptable name now.

[Biffer]

People need to get over themselves. Street names have been changed throughout history to memorialise or mark things that society at that time wanted to mark. Statues have been replaced for similar reasons.

It's a current, vital society that is still doing things that are worth doing that keeps changing. One that looks only to the past for its public displays is a country on its way out.

Indeed, Gropecunt Lane was a common street name in the middle ages, but fell out of use as social mores changed, and the existing streets had their names changed to something more innocuous. I doubt anyone would think it an acceptable name now.

I love that when you look at the wiki page on that, it says that gropecunt “appears to have been derived as a compound of grope and cunt”. Thanks guys.

But also look at the number of Churchill street/road/avenue etc there are now. What were they in 1930? And more recently Mandela place/way etc. This has happened throughout history as times change. I think it’s reflective of how backward looking britain is, desperately clinging to its history because it has no vision of the future.

[EnergiseR]

We get it, TB - you think the N-bomb is a suitable word for black people and you can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

Er. No. Considering my ex is Jamacian, I never would consider using the N word in a derogatory fashion, I find it appalling. I also find this rewriting of history appalling, anything considered offensive is being removed. You can't change history, it happened, live with it. Brushing it under the carpet will only serve to remove learnings from the past, mistakes have been made, learn from it. Don't repeat those mistakes..

Mate, it's a fucking dog that had a racist name because its owner was a racist who was also a good pilot.

Well we don't know if he was a mad racist really. Don't get me wrong he might have been. The use of the n word to describe a black dog would not have been that controversial at the time. Lots of people used the word in general conversation.

[ASMO]

Fuck me i better campaign to have West Street in my town renamed

[The Druid]

Fuck me i better campaign to have West Street in my town renamed

Nelson Mandela House, Nyrere Estate, London, SE15. Should be around for a few more years yet.

[Plato’sCave]

I swept the chimney yesterday, got about 2 carrier bags worth down, never done it before but the father in law had the brushes. I did an ok job, but I looked in the mirror afterwards, just before my bath, turns out I’m an absolute massive racist.

[Yeeb]

I quite like the idea of re-naming streets that were originally named after really bad people, maybe the kids will ask why it is happening and they can learn the lesson that being a really bad person will not bring you rewards.

I do agree that it might be hard to draw the line as to where this might stop, though. But let’s assume that racist murderers should not be commemorated.

South Africa has renamed whole provinces! And hundreds of streets. It’s not a problem, people just use the new names and get on with it.

Not in Durban they don’t, point Rd etc in the city, Kingsway in Toti (with the Alfred zondo official road names spray painted out) . Naming a road over a terrorist who used land mines to blow up shoppers was extremely poor judgement in the town he attacked.

It’s a bit different to a dog name though, which I have no problem being badly dubbed Digger in films if it gives certain people one less thing to be upset about. Assuming Gibson was racist because of his dogs name is risable, it was just a common term then and just not an acceptable one now. Times and values have changed that’s all.