The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[KingBlairhorn]

Yeah that will be decided on tour. Faletau is probably clear favourite for the 8 shirt too.

I would think Hogg is nailed on for 15, with Williams nailed on to be one of the wings.

Faletau might have it tough against Simmonds.

At the moment I'd only see Furlong, Itoje, Williams, Hogg as nailed on. 11 places up for grabs.

Could just as easily be Williams at FB with Watson and LRZ/DVdM on the other. Or Watson, Hogg and AN Other. The back 3 guys will enjoy the hard ground I think.

I think it's more likely Williams will bench if he makes the squad, but Watson will push him hard. Both offer more versatility as a bench spot as they can both play wing (Williams both sides I think) and full back. Hogg has to be nailed on as he offers less on the bench (and surely he can't fail to even make the bench). After that I'd guess at Adams and an other on the wings. Given Gatland's love of big wingers, I think Duhan has a great chance of the second wing spot.

[westport]

Jake Kerr has joined Bristol Bears until the end of the season.

[Big D]

I would think Hogg is nailed on for 15, with Williams nailed on to be one of the wings.

Faletau might have it tough against Simmonds.

At the moment I'd only see Furlong, Itoje, Williams, Hogg as nailed on. 11 places up for grabs.

Could just as easily be Williams at FB with Watson and LRZ/DVdM on the other. Or Watson, Hogg and AN Other. The back 3 guys will enjoy the hard ground I think.

I think it's more likely Williams will bench if he makes the squad, but Watson will push him hard. Both offer more versatility as a bench spot as they can both play wing (Williams both sides I think) and full back. Hogg has to be nailed on as he offers less on the bench (and surely he can't fail to even make the bench). After that I'd guess at Adams and an other on the wings. Given Gatland's love of big wingers, I think Duhan has a great chance of the second wing spot.

The back 3 will be nip and tuck all the way through the tour. There are very good back 3 players on tour, no one is far enough ahead of their peers to be considered nailed on. I back Hogg to earn his jersey but wouldn't be the biggest shock if Adams, Williams and Watson, two of whom are test Lions already, separate themselves as test starters. It doesn't need to be a back 3 specialist on the test bench either. Harris and Daly could cover wing, if their form merits it.

.

[KingBlairhorn]

Could just as easily be Williams at FB with Watson and LRZ/DVdM on the other. Or Watson, Hogg and AN Other. The back 3 guys will enjoy the hard ground I think.

I think it's more likely Williams will bench if he makes the squad, but Watson will push him hard. Both offer more versatility as a bench spot as they can both play wing (Williams both sides I think) and full back. Hogg has to be nailed on as he offers less on the bench (and surely he can't fail to even make the bench). After that I'd guess at Adams and an other on the wings. Given Gatland's love of big wingers, I think Duhan has a great chance of the second wing spot.

The back 3 will be nip and tuck all the way through the tour. There are very good back 3 players on tour, no one is far enough ahead of their peers to be considered nailed on. I back Hogg to earn his jersey but wouldn't be the biggest shock if Adams, Williams and Watson, two of whom are test Lions already, separate themselves as test starters. It doesn't need to be a back 3 specialist on the test bench either. Harris and Daly could cover wing, if their form merits it.

.

Fair points but my own view is that Hogg is nailed on. The attributes he has are too difficult to turn down. Besides the leadership qualities the combination of his broken field running and his massive boot are the perfect foil for a gameplan to continually move the biggest Boks around the field. My own view is this will be a key component of the gameplan and I would expect a number of selections on that basis: Biggar at flyhalf for his tactical kicking, Murray at scrumhalf for his box kicking and possibly Daly at centre for his huge boot too. If you add Hogg to that and two very strong chasers on the wings I think that is a very good basis for a position based gameplan. You then add in a couple of boshers in the centre to keep the defence honest and a mobile backrow capable of stealing turnovers all over the pitch and maybe it's a winning gameplan.

I don't buy it that Gatland will go to SA and try to overpower the Boks - nothing he has ever done in his career suggests he is that stupid!

[Big D]

I think it's more likely Williams will bench if he makes the squad, but Watson will push him hard. Both offer more versatility as a bench spot as they can both play wing (Williams both sides I think) and full back. Hogg has to be nailed on as he offers less on the bench (and surely he can't fail to even make the bench). After that I'd guess at Adams and an other on the wings. Given Gatland's love of big wingers, I think Duhan has a great chance of the second wing spot.

The back 3 will be nip and tuck all the way through the tour. There are very good back 3 players on tour, no one is far enough ahead of their peers to be considered nailed on. I back Hogg to earn his jersey but wouldn't be the biggest shock if Adams, Williams and Watson, two of whom are test Lions already, separate themselves as test starters. It doesn't need to be a back 3 specialist on the test bench either. Harris and Daly could cover wing, if their form merits it.

.

Fair points but my own view is that Hogg is nailed on. The attributes he has are too difficult to turn down. Besides the leadership qualities the combination of his broken field running and his massive boot are the perfect foil for a gameplan to continually move the biggest Boks around the field. My own view is this will be a key component of the gameplan and I would expect a number of selections on that basis: Biggar at flyhalf for his tactical kicking, Murray at scrumhalf for his box kicking and possibly Daly at centre for his huge boot too. If you add Hogg to that and two very strong chasers on the wings I think that is a very good basis for a position based gameplan. You then add in a couple of boshers in the centre to keep the defence honest and a mobile backrow capable of stealing turnovers all over the pitch and maybe it's a winning gameplan.

I don't buy it that Gatland will go to SA and try to overpower the Boks - nothing he has ever done in his career suggests he is that stupid!

I hope Hoggy gets the test jersey he deserves, all I was saying was I don't think it is a certainty even if he is favourite at this stage. One thing Gatland hasn't been afraid to do is drop players or bring in guys who have performed well on tour. The way is should be really.

I agree on game plan. They have picked mobile forwards capable of getting about the park.

[clydecloggie]

I think it's more likely Williams will bench if he makes the squad, but Watson will push him hard. Both offer more versatility as a bench spot as they can both play wing (Williams both sides I think) and full back. Hogg has to be nailed on as he offers less on the bench (and surely he can't fail to even make the bench). After that I'd guess at Adams and an other on the wings. Given Gatland's love of big wingers, I think Duhan has a great chance of the second wing spot.

The back 3 will be nip and tuck all the way through the tour. There are very good back 3 players on tour, no one is far enough ahead of their peers to be considered nailed on. I back Hogg to earn his jersey but wouldn't be the biggest shock if Adams, Williams and Watson, two of whom are test Lions already, separate themselves as test starters. It doesn't need to be a back 3 specialist on the test bench either. Harris and Daly could cover wing, if their form merits it.

.

Fair points but my own view is that Hogg is nailed on. The attributes he has are too difficult to turn down. Besides the leadership qualities the combination of his broken field running and his massive boot are the perfect foil for a gameplan to continually move the biggest Boks around the field. My own view is this will be a key component of the gameplan and I would expect a number of selections on that basis: Biggar at flyhalf for his tactical kicking, Murray at scrumhalf for his box kicking and possibly Daly at centre for his huge boot too. If you add Hogg to that and two very strong chasers on the wings I think that is a very good basis for a position based gameplan. You then add in a couple of boshers in the centre to keep the defence honest and a mobile backrow capable of stealing turnovers all over the pitch and maybe it's a winning gameplan.

I don't buy it that Gatland will go to SA and try to overpower the Boks - nothing he has ever done in his career suggests he is that stupid!

Gatland did say a bit about that in his presser yesterday in reply to a question on Sam Simmonds. He said he wants a nr 8 with a bit of footwork and not someone who just boshes it up straight.

Does indeed sound like the plan is not to out-Orc the Boks.

[Dogbert]

Great Glasgow defence

[Dogbert]

Great Glasgow defence

Thomsons kicking is immense

[C T]

Only 15mins in but Ross Thompson looking like a great 10.

[Dogbert]

Good game so far

[Dogbert]

Its probably a red , but no malice

[Dogbert]

well this game just about has everything

[KingBlairhorn]

Haha, this is pretty enjoyable!

That line from Cole Forbes *chef’s kiss*

Thomson’s kicking also exquisite.

[Dogbert]

Haha, this is pretty enjoyable!

That line from Cole Forbes *chef’s kiss*

Thomson’s kicking also exquisite.

you only saw a blur on the TV - he must have taken that ball at full tilt

[Dogbert]

1872 back in Glasgow

Great Game

Good to see Cummings back and walking around at the end

[Big D]

Edinburgh have absolutely no attacking shape once the ball reaches 10. It is pathetic for a pro team.

[I like neeps]

Cole Forbes is a player. Maitland's replacement sorted.

[Tichtheid]

Edinburgh have absolutely no attacking shape once the ball reaches 10. It is pathetic for a pro team.

It's dreadful, we never got the ball to vdM, he had two runs, I think, but it wasn't from us getting him in to an attacking position. Sau looks just as dangerous a runner, but we didn't give him the ball once.

The pack had the upper hand and then... nothing.

They are not bad players, but they must hang around the training paddock drinking coffee and playing top trumps or something, it doesn't look like there has been any rugby coaching going on for a while

[SomersetJock]

That was a proper entertaining match. Ali Price’s Lions call up seemed to add some fizz to his performance. Loving the look of young Forbes though. Certain to be capped in the Summer

Young Thompson also still impressing

[Caley_Red]

That was a proper entertaining match. Ali Price’s Lions call up seemed to add some fizz to his performance. Loving the look of young Forbes though. Certain to be capped in the Summer

Young Thompson also still impressing

Not familiar with Forbes but glad to hear Thompson is continuing to develop.

[SomersetJock]

[quote=SomersetJock post_id=105480 time=<a href="tel:1620443996">1620443996</a> user_id=2145]
That was a proper entertaining match. Ali Price’s Lions call up seemed to add some fizz to his performance. Loving the look of young Forbes though. Certain to be capped in the Summer

Young Thompson also still impressing

Not familiar with Forbes but glad to hear Thompson is continuing to develop.
[/quote]

Forbes is the young SQ Kiwi fullback who signed earlier this year. Once Glasgow get their s*** together he will shine. Very assured performance last night.

[robmatic]

Edinburgh have absolutely no attacking shape once the ball reaches 10. It is pathetic for a pro team.

It was brutal last night. The back 3 are all decent players but the ball doesn't get to them.

[Slick]

How did the new laws go last night?

I’m very uncomfortable with the “Captains Challenge” on principle, but how did it work?

[Big D]

How did the new laws go last night?

I’m very uncomfortable with the “Captains Challenge” on principle, but how did it work?

It lead to the red card being correct. Although I'm not comfortable with all red cards being 20min off. Some fouls don't deserve that leniency.

Also the goal line drop out for being held up is terrible and I won't be convinced otherwise. You go from held up over the line to a ruck outside the 22. Seems fair.

[westport]

Never saw it as don't have premiere sport so watched Sale v Leicester and have say the forgotten man Byron McGuigan was outstanding

[dpedin]

Never saw it as don't have premiere sport so watched Sale v Leicester and have say the forgotten man Byron McGuigan was outstanding

Agreed - he looks fit, strong running, excellent defence and full of energy. Deserves his slot back in the Scotland squad.

[JM2K6]

Never saw it as don't have premiere sport so watched Sale v Leicester and have say the forgotten man Byron McGuigan was outstanding

Agreed - he looks fit, strong running, excellent defence and full of energy. Deserves his slot back in the Scotland squad.

Agreed except for the defence bit, he got run over several times. Hell of a strike rate for Sale though, 33 from 71 matches is good going.

[KingBlairhorn]

How did the new laws go last night?

I’m very uncomfortable with the “Captains Challenge” on principle, but how did it work?

It lead to the red card being correct. Although I'm not comfortable with all red cards being 20min off. Some fouls don't deserve that leniency.

Also the goal line drop out for being held up is terrible and I won't be convinced otherwise. You go from held up over the line to a ruck outside the 22. Seems fair.

100% agreed, it’s so regressive and anti-attack. Edinburgh were pounding the line, Glasgow were on a warning, they got over with a marginal held-up ruling and...Glasgow got given the ball to spank to halfway and completely kill the momentum. It just doesn’t work for me.

I also very much dislike the 20 minute red card bin, but would be all for a 20 minute orange card bin. The Kebble elbow to the face was a red all day long, whereas Bennett’s red could have been orange as it was a marginal rugby incident where he was a little unlucky. He tried to wrap and tried to dip but as second tackler caught Price on the way down. He should have done better for the tackle, 20 minutes would send that message.

[Yr Alban]

How did the new laws go last night?

I’m very uncomfortable with the “Captains Challenge” on principle, but how did it work?

It lead to the red card being correct. Although I'm not comfortable with all red cards being 20min off. Some fouls don't deserve that leniency.

Also the goal line drop out for being held up is terrible and I won't be convinced otherwise. You go from held up over the line to a ruck outside the 22. Seems fair.

100% agreed, it’s so regressive and anti-attack. Edinburgh were pounding the line, Glasgow were on a warning, they got over with a marginal held-up ruling and...Glasgow got given the ball to spank to halfway and completely kill the momentum. It just doesn’t work for me.

I also very much dislike the 20 minute red card bin, but would be all for a 20 minute orange card bin. The Kebble elbow to the face was a red all day long, whereas Bennett’s red could have been orange as it was a marginal rugby incident where he was a little unlucky. He tried to wrap and tried to dip but as second tackler caught Price on the way down. He should have done better for the tackle, 20 minutes would send that message.

I would agree with an ‘orange card’.
YC - 10 mins in the bin
OC - 20 mins in the bin
RC - off for the rest of the match (would reserve this for intentional and dangerous foul play)

[fishfoodie]

It lead to the red card being correct. Although I'm not comfortable with all red cards being 20min off. Some fouls don't deserve that leniency.

Also the goal line drop out for being held up is terrible and I won't be convinced otherwise. You go from held up over the line to a ruck outside the 22. Seems fair.

100% agreed, it’s so regressive and anti-attack. Edinburgh were pounding the line, Glasgow were on a warning, they got over with a marginal held-up ruling and...Glasgow got given the ball to spank to halfway and completely kill the momentum. It just doesn’t work for me.

I also very much dislike the 20 minute red card bin, but would be all for a 20 minute orange card bin. The Kebble elbow to the face was a red all day long, whereas Bennett’s red could have been orange as it was a marginal rugby incident where he was a little unlucky. He tried to wrap and tried to dip but as second tackler caught Price on the way down. He should have done better for the tackle, 20 minutes would send that message.

I would agree with an ‘orange card’.
YC - 10 mins in the bin
OC - 20 mins in the bin
RC - off for the rest of the match (would reserve this for intentional and dangerous foul play)

I agree, In GAA they have a black card; where that player is off, but you can subsitute for them after the penalty period, so the equivalent of your OC.

It's a significant penalty, & it leaves it up to the after-action committee to work out any bans, etc. I think the new vigilence around shots around the head is a good idea; but there is a very wide range of offenses; & if the game isn't going to have a ridiculous number of breaks in play; it's easiest if the Refs are just given a simple set of options, & keep the game moving.

Oh; & for the love of God; ditch the Challenge !

[Slick]

A remarkable attack on the Scottish Lions over a couple of articles in the ST.

The suggestion that Southerland and Fagerson are not up to it and that full back is a straight shoot out between Williams and Watson (all Walrus) and a direct accusation that Finn is only there because of Townsend

His form has been patchy at times dreadfully loose - witness the way he almost cost Scotland a famous victory at Twickenham. Being carded twice in a tournament suggest he is more likely to guide the team into trouble than out of it

By Peter O’Reilly in a piece on Sexton being robbed

[Big D]

People are sleeping on Sutherland.

[I like neeps]

A remarkable attack on the Scottish Lions over a couple of articles in the ST.

The suggestion that Southerland and Fagerson are not up to it and that full back is a straight shoot out between Williams and Watson (all Walrus) and a direct accusation that Finn is only there because of Townsend

His form has been patchy at times dreadfully loose - witness the way he almost cost Scotland a famous victory at Twickenham. Being carded twice in a tournament suggest he is more likely to guide the team into trouble than out of it

By Peter O’Reilly in a piece on Sexton being robbed

I am quite surprised Fagerson is getting all the heat for England's golden boy Kyle Sinckler missing out despite Gatland explicitly saying he picked Porter over Sinkler for his versatility. Not like the media to do any analysis.

[Begbie]

A remarkable attack on the Scottish Lions over a couple of articles in the ST.

The suggestion that Southerland and Fagerson are not up to it and that full back is a straight shoot out between Williams and Watson (all Walrus) and a direct accusation that Finn is only there because of Townsend

His form has been patchy at times dreadfully loose - witness the way he almost cost Scotland a famous victory at Twickenham. Being carded twice in a tournament suggest he is more likely to guide the team into trouble than out of it

By Peter O’Reilly in a piece on Sexton being robbed

Some "journalists" and pundits really aren't taking it well. It's glorious. No doubt already sharpening their pencils ready to blame Toony, Tandy and our players for any failings.

[Yr Alban]

Scotland achieved parity with every other team in the 6N, and could have won the title if not for the Fagerson RC. We then get roughly the same number of players picked as everyone else (though still the smallest actual number) and the pundits are unhappy. Is this perhaps because Scotland being shafted 4 tours on the trot means they’re not used to their own candidates missing out?

[I like neeps]

Scotland achieved parity with every other team in the 6N, and could have won the title if not for the Fagerson RC. We then get roughly the same number of players picked as everyone else (though still the smallest actual number) and the pundits are unhappy. Is this perhaps because Scotland being shafted 4 tours on the trot means they’re not used to their own candidates missing out?

If I was Irish and watched Ireland beat Scotland most years without too many scares I'd be disheartened to have the same number of lions. I think that's the reason, why would they rate our players as equal when the recent record is anything but?

Last time we beat them was 2017 I think? Time before that was 2013?

[Yr Alban]

Scotland achieved parity with every other team in the 6N, and could have won the title if not for the Fagerson RC. We then get roughly the same number of players picked as everyone else (though still the smallest actual number) and the pundits are unhappy. Is this perhaps because Scotland being shafted 4 tours on the trot means they’re not used to their own candidates missing out?

If I was Irish and watched Ireland beat Scotland most years without too many scares I'd be disheartened to have the same number of lions. I think that's the reason, why would they rate our players as equal when the recent record is anything but?

Last time we beat them was 2017 I think? Time before that was 2013?

Yeah, but they beat us by 3 points this time, and we finished below them in the final 6N table by a single point on the PD. So they can’t really complain about having the same number of Lions.

[I like neeps]

Scotland achieved parity with every other team in the 6N, and could have won the title if not for the Fagerson RC. We then get roughly the same number of players picked as everyone else (though still the smallest actual number) and the pundits are unhappy. Is this perhaps because Scotland being shafted 4 tours on the trot means they’re not used to their own candidates missing out?

If I was Irish and watched Ireland beat Scotland most years without too many scares I'd be disheartened to have the same number of lions. I think that's the reason, why would they rate our players as equal when the recent record is anything but?

Last time we beat them was 2017 I think? Time before that was 2013?

Yeah, but they beat us by 3 points this time, and we finished below them in the final 6N table by a single point on the PD. So they can’t really complain about having the same number of Lions.

Right but the Lions is not picked on the strength of only the six nations before the Lions. It's not even only international rugby as we see with Simmons.

[Yr Alban]

If I was Irish and watched Ireland beat Scotland most years without too many scares I'd be disheartened to have the same number of lions. I think that's the reason, why would they rate our players as equal when the recent record is anything but?

Last time we beat them was 2017 I think? Time before that was 2013?

Yeah, but they beat us by 3 points this time, and we finished below them in the final 6N table by a single point on the PD. So they can’t really complain about having the same number of Lions.

Right but the Lions is not picked on the strength of only the six nations before the Lions. It's not even only international rugby as we see with Simmons.

Fair enough. But it’s the most recent time the vast majority of players have been seen playing at the highest level, so it’s going to figure pretty large in the discussion.

[Jock42]

A remarkable attack on the Scottish Lions over a couple of articles in the ST.

The suggestion that Southerland and Fagerson are not up to it and that full back is a straight shoot out between Williams and Watson (all Walrus) and a direct accusation that Finn is only there because of Townsend

His form has been patchy at times dreadfully loose - witness the way he almost cost Scotland a famous victory at Twickenham. Being carded twice in a tournament suggest he is more likely to guide the team into trouble than out of it

By Peter O’Reilly in a piece on Sexton being robbed

Some "journalists" and pundits really aren't taking it well. It's glorious. No doubt already sharpening their pencils ready to blame Toony, Tandy and our players for any failings.

On the plus side there's been a few good memes through the Thistle pod