The Official English Rugby Thread

Where goats go to escape
User avatar
ASMO
Posts: 5423
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:08 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:49 pm Bristol eventually handy winners against 14 man Gloucester. So many tries left out there, though. Their accuracy needs to pick up.
8 disallowed tries, you cannot be that wasteful against a top side like Exeter who wont give many opportunities.
User avatar
Niegs
Posts: 3392
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:20 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:59 pm
inactionman wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:09 am Kyle Eastmond retires from professional rugby.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/57143061

Seemed to be a bit of an injury magnet for Wasps and Leicester, but for a season or so he was part of a hugely exciting backline at Bath that looked like it would be challenging for a few honours - Eastmond outside Ford and inside JJ, but able to interchange. All went wrong when (1) Mike Ford promised the earth contract-wise which he couldn't make good on, which also contributed to Ollie Devoto leaving and (ii) the Burgess ructions, in some part with Eastmond missing out on an England WC spot to his out-of-position clubmate. And, of course, (iii) when his chief sponsor Mike Ford was the shown the door.
Bans as well as injuries. Missed more weeks than many do across their career for some bad high tackles.
Eastmond had high tackle bans? Isn’t he actually about 5’7”?
User avatar
ASMO
Posts: 5423
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:08 pm

Eastmond was one of those players that never realised his potential in Union, he was a Jason Robinson lite, probably not even a lite, more of a bad impersonator, shame as i think given the right team and coaching he could have been really really good.
User avatar
JM2K6
Posts: 9800
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:43 am

Niegs wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:58 am
sockwithaticket wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:59 pm
inactionman wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:09 am Kyle Eastmond retires from professional rugby.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/57143061

Seemed to be a bit of an injury magnet for Wasps and Leicester, but for a season or so he was part of a hugely exciting backline at Bath that looked like it would be challenging for a few honours - Eastmond outside Ford and inside JJ, but able to interchange. All went wrong when (1) Mike Ford promised the earth contract-wise which he couldn't make good on, which also contributed to Ollie Devoto leaving and (ii) the Burgess ructions, in some part with Eastmond missing out on an England WC spot to his out-of-position clubmate. And, of course, (iii) when his chief sponsor Mike Ford was the shown the door.
Bans as well as injuries. Missed more weeks than many do across their career for some bad high tackles.
Eastmond had high tackle bans? Isn’t he actually about 5’7”?
He used to launch himself into headshots. Could be a really dirty player when he felt like it, lost control a few times.
sockwithaticket
Posts: 8664
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am

Niegs wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:58 am
sockwithaticket wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:59 pm
inactionman wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:09 am Kyle Eastmond retires from professional rugby.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/57143061

Seemed to be a bit of an injury magnet for Wasps and Leicester, but for a season or so he was part of a hugely exciting backline at Bath that looked like it would be challenging for a few honours - Eastmond outside Ford and inside JJ, but able to interchange. All went wrong when (1) Mike Ford promised the earth contract-wise which he couldn't make good on, which also contributed to Ollie Devoto leaving and (ii) the Burgess ructions, in some part with Eastmond missing out on an England WC spot to his out-of-position clubmate. And, of course, (iii) when his chief sponsor Mike Ford was the shown the door.
Bans as well as injuries. Missed more weeks than many do across their career for some bad high tackles.
Eastmond had high tackle bans? Isn’t he actually about 5’7”?
The ones I remember he got banned for were on players of roughly his height.

He managed two red card offences in quick succession against Quins a few seasons ago



Later that same year (next season and having moved to Tigers) he did basically the same thing again.

I didn't remember before looking this up that it was Barnes who carded him both times.
inactionman
Posts: 3065
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

You can take the boy out of league etc etc

All of those high shots are essentially the same bad tackle repeated. Slow learner.

Shame as he had the attacking skills to be a perfect inside centre - nimble, could pick a line, acceleration and could pass and kick.
User avatar
Niegs
Posts: 3392
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:20 pm

ASMO wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:06 am Eastmond was one of those players that never realised his potential in Union, he was a Jason Robinson lite, probably not even a lite, more of a bad impersonator, shame as i think given the right team and coaching he could have been really really good.
Agreed! I've been a fan of his nimble running abilities and his passing. Someone who played well in space, but maybe the way centres are positioned/used these days worked against him?

User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

Niegs wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:34 pm
ASMO wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:06 am Eastmond was one of those players that never realised his potential in Union, he was a Jason Robinson lite, probably not even a lite, more of a bad impersonator, shame as i think given the right team and coaching he could have been really really good.
Agreed! I've been a fan of his nimble running abilities and his passing. Someone who played well in space, but maybe the way centres are positioned/used these days worked against him?

I loved how he played for England, did well against NZ two or three times, only to be dropped after each one.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
sockwithaticket
Posts: 8664
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am

Yeah, I remember wondering each time he'd get a shot in the white (or purple) shirt what he'd done to warrant being dropped. I can't even remember who he was being dropped for, was it Burrell and/or Twelvetrees?

It's like when Freddie Burns steered what was basically a Saxons team to a very close loss against NZ in their own back yard only to be dropped for the next week's fixture. What exactly did he do other than not be someone else the coaches like more?

I'm quite the Lancaster defender, but there were definitely some near indefensible selectorial decisions at times.
User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:25 pm Yeah, I remember wondering each time he'd get a shot in the white (or purple) shirt what he'd done to warrant being dropped. I can't even remember who he was being dropped for, was it Burrell and/or Twelvetrees?

It's like when Freddie Burns steered what was basically a Saxons team to a very close loss against NZ in their own back yard only to be dropped for the next week's fixture. What exactly did he do other than not be someone else the coaches like more?

I'm quite the Lancaster defender, but there were definitely some near indefensible selectorial decisions at times.
Same. Eastmond would pick holes in the defence, with footwork or passing, and get dropped. He got dropped for a systemic error in one of the AB games, where they opened up our defence 3 times with the exact same move, think he was dropped after the second one (end of first half), and the replacements let the same move happen again anyway. It was the first NZ test in the series that Burns had a great game, and if Nigel hadn't started making up laws (it went backwards off the hands, but it's stilla knock on, and if the player hadn't just come on the pitch, he'd have got a yellow...). we may well have taken it.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
JM2K6
Posts: 9800
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:43 am

Raggs wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:32 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:25 pm Yeah, I remember wondering each time he'd get a shot in the white (or purple) shirt what he'd done to warrant being dropped. I can't even remember who he was being dropped for, was it Burrell and/or Twelvetrees?

It's like when Freddie Burns steered what was basically a Saxons team to a very close loss against NZ in their own back yard only to be dropped for the next week's fixture. What exactly did he do other than not be someone else the coaches like more?

I'm quite the Lancaster defender, but there were definitely some near indefensible selectorial decisions at times.
Same. Eastmond would pick holes in the defence, with footwork or passing, and get dropped. He got dropped for a systemic error in one of the AB games, where they opened up our defence 3 times with the exact same move, think he was dropped after the second one (end of first half), and the replacements let the same move happen again anyway. It was the first NZ test in the series that Burns had a great game, and if Nigel hadn't started making up laws (it went backwards off the hands, but it's stilla knock on, and if the player hadn't just come on the pitch, he'd have got a yellow...). we may well have taken it.
Ah, the famous invented knock-ons game.

Eastmond had some issues, though. Some of his high tackles definitely felt like the work of an angry man, and his clash at Bath suggested he wasn't quite at ease with himself. Definitely a wasted talent.
User avatar
Margin__Walker
Posts: 2744
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:47 am

Teams for LI v Exeter kicking off soon (BT Sport 2). S Simmonds needs two tries to beat Dominic Chapman's 23 year old premiership try scoring record. Wouldn't bet against him getting there tonight against a team that struggles against teams going route one.

Image
Image
User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

There's one.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Margin__Walker
Posts: 2744
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:47 am

Well that's an odd try
User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

There seemed to be no inside defenders on the Joe Simmonds score, were they blocked? Or just lazy/fatties?
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
sockwithaticket
Posts: 8664
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am

And we have a new record. Congrats to Sam Simmonds.
User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

All the forwards sucked in by LCD, leaving Loader and Phipps trying to stop Sam from crossing at short range.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

That's some serious red hair from the Irish waterboy.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Paddington Bear
Posts: 5961
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Excellent try and lovely to hear a crowd roar again
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
sockwithaticket
Posts: 8664
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am

That's a cracker of an offload from OHC.
User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

Need to check the offside and the neck roll?
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Margin__Walker
Posts: 2744
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:47 am

Nice try that. If only we had a pack
sockwithaticket
Posts: 8664
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am

Pretty good game so far, honestly thought Irish would be faring worse.
User avatar
Paddington Bear
Posts: 5961
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Poitrenaud!
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
User avatar
notfatcat
Posts: 643
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:42 pm

Gonna take a long time for Loader to live than one down.
Chris Jack, 67 test All Black - "I was voted most useless and laziest cunt in the English Premiership two years on the trot"
User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

Squeaky getting told off :D.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
ASMO
Posts: 5423
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:08 pm

How slow is Cuthbert?
User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

Irish have given up. 2/3rds of the Irish side was on the other side of the pitch for that one, despite most the Exeter team being on the other. No one was working to get across.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
ASMO
Posts: 5423
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:08 pm

How was that not a red card for O'Flatulance? Parton landed on his face
User avatar
Ali Cadoo
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:36 pm

That just about sums Sam Simmonds up - top tackler AND top scorer in the game. Great interview, too.

Image
User avatar
assfly
Posts: 4510
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:30 am

I'm sure it's been discussed before on here, but Chris Ashton was saying that the praise for Simmonds' try scoring record should also consider that most of his tries come from 5m or less of the tryline, and from a lot of work by his forward pack that is part of a concerted game plan that will always lead to the 8 scoring a lot.

But also sounds like a slightly jealous winger having a moan :lol:
shaggy
Posts: 416
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:11 am

assfly wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 5:48 am I'm sure it's been discussed before on here, but Chris Ashton was saying that the praise for Simmonds' try scoring record should also consider that most of his tries come from 5m or less of the tryline, and from a lot of work by his forward pack that is part of a concerted game plan that will always lead to the 8 scoring a lot.

But also sounds like a slightly jealous winger having a moan :lol:
Nah, there is an article (Guardian?) where he himself says it is partly the structure they play that allows him to score so many. Ashton is sound here
User avatar
Paddington Bear
Posts: 5961
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Yeah that's clearly correct - in teams with a different structure he'd have scored half the tries.
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
User avatar
SaintK
Posts: 6620
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:49 am
Location: Over there somewhere

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 7:47 am Yeah that's clearly correct - in teams with a different structure he'd have scored half the tries.
Or maybe half as many again :wink:
User avatar
Margin__Walker
Posts: 2744
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:47 am

shaggy wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 7:41 am
assfly wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 5:48 am I'm sure it's been discussed before on here, but Chris Ashton was saying that the praise for Simmonds' try scoring record should also consider that most of his tries come from 5m or less of the tryline, and from a lot of work by his forward pack that is part of a concerted game plan that will always lead to the 8 scoring a lot.

But also sounds like a slightly jealous winger having a moan :lol:
Nah, there is an article (Guardian?) where he himself says it is partly the structure they play that allows him to score so many. Ashton is sound here
Sort of.

You don't get carried to that many tries though. The only two comparable forwards in the Premiership era are Back and Waldrom with 16. Simmonds has 19 with 3 games to play.

The top 12 all time prem try scorers are backs (and only Care on that list isn't an outside back)
User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

Waldrom is a perfect example. As he got his top scoring season with Exeter as well if I recall correctly, were there mass cries for his recall to the England team?
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
ASMO
Posts: 5423
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:08 pm

Waldron would never have scored a 60m try like Simmons did against Quins
User avatar
Raggs
Posts: 3698
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:51 pm

ASMO wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:30 am Waldron would never have scored a 60m try like Simmons did against Quins
So we take Waldroms 16, and add the extras that Simmonds breaks the record with.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Lobby
Posts: 1805
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:34 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 7:52 am
shaggy wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 7:41 am
assfly wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 5:48 am I'm sure it's been discussed before on here, but Chris Ashton was saying that the praise for Simmonds' try scoring record should also consider that most of his tries come from 5m or less of the tryline, and from a lot of work by his forward pack that is part of a concerted game plan that will always lead to the 8 scoring a lot.

But also sounds like a slightly jealous winger having a moan :lol:
Nah, there is an article (Guardian?) where he himself says it is partly the structure they play that allows him to score so many. Ashton is sound here
Sort of.

You don't get carried to that many tries though. The only two comparable forwards in the Premiership era are Back and Waldrom with 16. Simmonds has 19 with 3 games to play.

The top 12 all time prem try scorers are backs (and only Care on that list isn't an outside back)
In the same Guardian article one of the other Exeter players is quoted as saying that Waldrom was greedier than Simmonds, and would bulldoze people out of the way to score a try himself.

While Exeter's structure is clearly aimed to engineer close range try scoring opportunities for the 8, Simmonds is not a carbon copy of Waldrom, and brings much more than just bulldozing over the line from 2m.
Hells Bells
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:34 am

Has Simmonds become a radically better player than he was in 2018?

He has 7 England caps, one good performance against Italy and I can’t remember much else apart from being outmuscled against France and Ireland in the 6 Nations. He’s a great player for the Exeter system but what is his role in the current England team when Eddie doesn’t use his 8 to hang about in the wide channels and is he a dominant enough tackler for Mitchell’s system?
Post Reply