The Brexit Thread

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15321058/ ... s-trouser/

I simply ethically source my meat, veg and even our milk and kill far less animals (and have a smaller environmental impact) in the process because I'm not some smug & naïve twat thinking I'm doing better ethically or environmentally by eating corn flakes :p

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57518980

The UK has asked the EU to extend a grace period for chilled meats until the end of September.

Is this another embarrassing fold, strange behaviour since we hold all the cards.

All that bluster and posturing has once again amounted to nothing but a climbdown on the realisation that is in fact what we agreed to all along.

[fishfoodie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57518980

The UK has asked the EU to extend a grace period for chilled meats until the end of September.

Is this another embarrassing fold, strange behaviour since we hold all the cards.

All that bluster and posturing has once again amounted to nothing but a climbdown on the realisation that is in fact what we agreed to all along.

The EU need to ask the UK Government what it's going to do between now & Sept; that it couldn't have done before now ?

The UK still hasn't given the EU access to its customs system; & that takes maybe at the most a couple of days; & it sat on it's hands when Poots suspended all operations on actually providing the infrastructure for inspecting goods; & it has stopped hiring the new officials needed.

[Insane_Homer]

Spidey senses tell me they're unlikely to re-train and apply for the new "Brexit Opportunities Unit" Director role.

[Rinkals]

Spidey senses tell me they're unlikely to re-train and apply for the new "Brexit Opportunities Unit" Director role.

Honestly, this makes me really angry.

All this was predicted. Everything.

But no; it was all 'project fear'. And here you have people's livelihoods sacrificed for Christ knows what. Sovereignty? Pint pots? Bendy bananas? Fish wrapped in newspaper?

[GogLais]

Spidey senses tell me they're unlikely to re-train and apply for the new "Brexit Opportunities Unit" Director role.

Honestly, this makes me really angry.

All this was predicted. Everything.

But no; it was all 'project fear'. And here you have people's livelihoods sacrificed for Christ knows what. Sovereignty? Pint pots? Bendy bananas? Fish wrapped in newspaper?

You forgot blue passports.

[Hal Jordan]

Spidey senses tell me they're unlikely to re-train and apply for the new "Brexit Opportunities Unit" Director role.

Honestly, this makes me really angry.

All this was predicted. Everything.

But no; it was all 'project fear'. And here you have people's livelihoods sacrificed for Christ knows what. Sovereignty? Pint pots? Bendy bananas? Fish wrapped in newspaper?

Tax avoidance, a race to the bottom on rights and regulations and the accelerated asset stripping of whatever is left.

[Rinkals]

Spidey senses tell me they're unlikely to re-train and apply for the new "Brexit Opportunities Unit" Director role.

Honestly, this makes me really angry.

All this was predicted. Everything.

But no; it was all 'project fear'. And here you have people's livelihoods sacrificed for Christ knows what. Sovereignty? Pint pots? Bendy bananas? Fish wrapped in newspaper?

You forgot blue passports.

Sorry.

[Rinkals]

Where is the justification from the Brexiters?

I remember posters claiming that the attitude of the remainers against Brexit served to harden the resolve and make them determined to see Brexit through.

Where are those posters now?

[JM2K6]

On a different forum.

[Biffer]

If that's the typical predicted saving then we're not going to be importing much meat are we? Or am I misunderstanding something? I do worry about my distant farming relatives in Gwynedd though. They can't switch to soya beans or whatever on those hills.

There's a horseshoe effect here - the only people who think it's a particular triumph or disaster are either hardcore leavers or remainers. I very much doubt Aussie suppliers could absolutely swamp our supermarkets even if they wanted to, and I very much doubt this will create vast wealth for the country either.

And in & of itself; you may be right; trade from Australian might not, single handedly destroy British Agriculture ... but .. the bar has now been set; when the UK comes knocking on the door of the Brazilian Government, will it expect them to accept a more restrictive deal ?

This deal allows access, for beef, from a country that uses hormones in cattle; & also allows chlorine washed chicken; & UK couldn't even sustain the controls they promised their own farmers in the end; because the Ozzies knew the Bumblecunt was desperate to have his deal.

No, no, no. The Brazilians are brown chaps, surely they’ll do what they’re told when addressed in a firm voice by an Englishman who went to the right school.

[Biffer]

There's always a fallback if the Brazilian government digs it's heels in on agriculture though - walk away from the deal. We don't have to say yes and we don't lack leverage ourselves.

Interestingly throwing ourselves open to cheaper and more efficient agriculture is a reversal to a pre-war status quo, funny how things work out.

Problem is our current government is so desperate for deals to wave a flag at that they won’t do that.

[fishfoodie]

I hope no-one is expecting the DUP disappearing up their own arses, to change the dogmatic refusal within Unionism to be honest about where the problems are with the NI Protocol

Cross-border trade has received a massive boost since the implementation of the Northern Ireland Protocol, according to figures published by the UK Government.

Exports to Northern Ireland from the Republic are up by 40% on the same period on 2020 — and 54% higher than the same period in 2018, the Sunday Times reported.

And southbound trade has also increased, with NI exports up 61% since 2020 and 111% since 2018.

Unionists are concerned that the NI Protocol is causing businesses in Northern Ireland to reorient supply chains away from Great Britain in favour of sourcing goods from the Republic of Ireland, thereby distancing Northern Ireland economically from the rest of the UK.

Speaking to the Belfast Telegraph last night, Ulster Unionist peer and former party leader Lord Empey said the situation was “intolerable”.

“Many of us have long suspected that the intent of the EU all along was to recalibrate Northern Ireland’s trade by closing off traditional supply routes with the rest of the UK and facilitating trade between NI and the EU,” he said.

Yes, it was the EU who cunningly rejected the backstop, & the UK leaving the SM, & CU; so that NI businesses would face the choice of going bust, or stocking their shelves from businesses that were prepared to trade with them.

How dare businesses & farmers choose to stay in business, & not self-immolate, rather than buy from the fenians !!!

“I welcome the prospect of some additional breathing space to give time for further negotiations, but the situation is intolerable and PM Boris Johnson should never have proposed a border on the Irish Sea and the DUP should never have supported this anti-unionist solution. We are all now paying the price for this blunder.”

Unionists still don't understand that the Tories don't give a fuck about them. They just can't bring themselves to admit that they were shafted by them.

's numbers on how many inspections are necessary, don't look to accurate either ... quelle surprise

The report also highlights the scale of the EU-mandated checks on products — especially food — coming from Great Britain into Northern Ireland’s shops.

By May 23, more than 41,000 document checks had been carried out on consignments crossing the Irish Sea to Belfast, Larne or Warrenpoint, where EU border checkpoints are located, as well as more than 36,000 ID checks and almost 3,000 physical checks on consignments.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news ... 60446.html

[SaintK]

Well, that's going to put the kibosh on us exporting all the TV and films made here in the UK?

The EU is preparing to act against the “disproportionate” amount of British television and film content shown in Europe in the wake of Brexit, in a blow to the UK entertainment industry and the country’s “soft power” abroad.
The UK is Europe’s biggest producer of film and TV programming, buoyed up by £1.4bn from the sale of international rights, but its dominance has been described as a threat to Europe’s “cultural diversity” in an internal EU document seen by the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021 ... n-brexit
Bonkers!!!

[Marylandolorian]

^

Countries such as France have gone further, setting a 60% quota for European works on VOD and demanding 15% of the turnover of the platforms is spent in production of European audiovisual and cinematographic works.

As a French/American I can tell you that I enjoy the British shows much more than the French ones (the majority are just awful).
Btw in the 80s/90s the Fr gov put a quota on radio stations that requires them to make sure that 40% of the songs they play are in French.

[fishfoodie]

Well, that's going to put the kibosh on us exporting all the TV and films made here in the UK?

The EU is preparing to act against the “disproportionate” amount of British television and film content shown in Europe in the wake of Brexit, in a blow to the UK entertainment industry and the country’s “soft power” abroad.
The UK is Europe’s biggest producer of film and TV programming, buoyed up by £1.4bn from the sale of international rights, but its dominance has been described as a threat to Europe’s “cultural diversity” in an internal EU document seen by the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021 ... n-brexit
Bonkers!!!

It's particularly sad; because as a community the Entertainment industry was probably the one shouting loudest against Brexit; but the hard brexiteers have done their damnedest to poison the relationship between the UK & EU, & now it's good politics in a lot of the EU to slap back.

[Rinkals]

All too predictable.

Not that the brexiters will care.

[I like neeps]

Well, that's going to put the kibosh on us exporting all the TV and films made here in the UK?

The EU is preparing to act against the “disproportionate” amount of British television and film content shown in Europe in the wake of Brexit, in a blow to the UK entertainment industry and the country’s “soft power” abroad.
The UK is Europe’s biggest producer of film and TV programming, buoyed up by £1.4bn from the sale of international rights, but its dominance has been described as a threat to Europe’s “cultural diversity” in an internal EU document seen by the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021 ... n-brexit
Bonkers!!!

It's particularly sad; because as a community the Entertainment industry was probably the one shouting loudest against Brexit; but the hard brexiteers have done their damnedest to poison the relationship between the UK & EU, & now it's good politics in a lot of the EU to slap back.

Hard to see what can be done though? If people want to watch TV and pay for it you can't really stop them can you? Can't see why streaming services etc would want to stop broadcasting popular TV. Also, how much of it is British TV? I'd have thought American was the dominant TV culture

[sockwithaticket]

Spidey senses tell me they're unlikely to re-train and apply for the new "Brexit Opportunities Unit" Director role.

"That worked great for everybody" also translates to, "we didn't have to adapt our business model to pay wages that make sense for UK workers when we could bring in Europeans from outside the Eurozone who'd live in barely acceptable conditions for a short period to take home an amount that was cheap for us, but decent for them".

A few weeks or months of low paid temp work in out of the way locations just isn't viable for most domestic workers. If you want them to come something has to be done about the financing, whether that's government subsidy or taking a stand with supermarkets to insist on a price that better reflects the costs of growing and picking produce, their ideal pricepoints be damned. Alternatively, whinge until an exemption is made for to get the cheaper labour back.

[sockwithaticket]

Well, that's going to put the kibosh on us exporting all the TV and films made here in the UK?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021 ... n-brexit
Bonkers!!!

It's particularly sad; because as a community the Entertainment industry was probably the one shouting loudest against Brexit; but the hard brexiteers have done their damnedest to poison the relationship between the UK & EU, & now it's good politics in a lot of the EU to slap back.

Hard to see what can be done though? If people want to watch TV and pay for it you can't really stop them can you? Can't see why streaming services etc would want to stop broadcasting popular TV. Also, how much of it is British TV? I'd have thought American was the dominant TV culture

Same, but maybe that's not a fight they think is worth picking, so they'll target billy no mates Britain instead because what the fuck are we going to do about it?

[fishfoodie]

It's particularly sad; because as a community the Entertainment industry was probably the one shouting loudest against Brexit; but the hard brexiteers have done their damnedest to poison the relationship between the UK & EU, & now it's good politics in a lot of the EU to slap back.

Hard to see what can be done though? If people want to watch TV and pay for it you can't really stop them can you? Can't see why streaming services etc would want to stop broadcasting popular TV. Also, how much of it is British TV? I'd have thought American was the dominant TV culture

Same, but maybe that's not a fight they think is worth picking, so they'll target billy no mates Britain instead because what the fuck are we going to do about it?

I think the objective is to get the big streaming companies to produce more material in the countries they want to collect fees from; & not just dump American content in those countries & contribute nothing, but running down their own entertainment industry.

It's cheap & easy to dub, or subtitle a drama like Downton; but to produce it in France, in french is at least supporting their film industry.

It's not as big a problem for the UK; because, you have a small country beside you, & numerous other vast ones, that share your language; & consume your content. Best of luck flogging a subtitled German Crime drama in Oz, or Alabama; compared with another series of Prime Suspect, or whatever.

[tabascoboy]

Hoping we continue to get quite a lot of original foreign language drama here on BBC4 and Channel 4 and not resort to some tit-for-tat ( all too easy to imagine our glorious leaders exerting pressure for that). It is a bit niche though and I guess shows like Borgen just wouldn't be popular in the US unless it's remade in English and localized which is a shame - although I suppose buying the rights must help the original producing countries somewhat.

[fishfoodie]

Hoping we continue to get quite a lot of original foreign language drama here on BBC4 and Channel 4 and not resort to some tit-for-tat ( all too easy to imagine our glorious leaders exerting pressure for that). It is a bit niche though and I guess shows like Borgen just wouldn't be popular in the US unless it's remade in English and localized which is a shame - although I suppose buying the rights must help the original producing countries somewhat.

Yeah, variety is great, & lately there has been an increase in the number of nordic dramas being shown; but for that to continue, countries need to protect their own producers, in the same way that they need to protect their own farmers.

If you don't keep your own actors working, & keep your culture alive; & thriving; it'll get swamped by anodyne American shite; & your best people will piss off to Hollywood, or where ever. France has been fighting this battle for a very long time; & it started for them with trying to stop their language being completely adulterated by English influences; but the language thing is a common battle for every country that doesn't speak English.

[Rinkals]

Spidey senses tell me they're unlikely to re-train and apply for the new "Brexit Opportunities Unit" Director role.

"That worked great for everybody" also translates to, "we didn't have to adapt our business model to pay wages that make sense for UK workers when we could bring in Europeans from outside the Eurozone who'd live in barely acceptable conditions for a short period to take home an amount that was cheap for us, but decent for them".

A few weeks or months of low paid temp work in out of the way locations just isn't viable for most domestic workers. If you want them to come something has to be done about the financing, whether that's government subsidy or taking a stand with supermarkets to insist on a price that better reflects the costs of growing and picking produce, their ideal pricepoints be damned. Alternatively, whinge until an exemption is made for to get the cheaper labour back.

Not all fruipickers are in it as a career path.

Some do it for reasons other than money.

[sockwithaticket]

Spidey senses tell me they're unlikely to re-train and apply for the new "Brexit Opportunities Unit" Director role.

"That worked great for everybody" also translates to, "we didn't have to adapt our business model to pay wages that make sense for UK workers when we could bring in Europeans from outside the Eurozone who'd live in barely acceptable conditions for a short period to take home an amount that was cheap for us, but decent for them".

A few weeks or months of low paid temp work in out of the way locations just isn't viable for most domestic workers. If you want them to come something has to be done about the financing, whether that's government subsidy or taking a stand with supermarkets to insist on a price that better reflects the costs of growing and picking produce, their ideal pricepoints be damned. Alternatively, whinge until an exemption is made for to get the cheaper labour back.

Not all fruipickers are in it as a career path.

Some do it for reasons other than money.

Such as?

I'd say none of them are in it as a career. It doesn't occupy enough time or generate enough cash. Even for those coming from countries not using the euro.

That doesn't change the fact that if you want British pickers the remuneration has to increase, because at present the combination of working conditions, amount of work it provides and the fiscal reward are insufficient for many to warrant bothering.

[sorCrer]

That doesn't change the fact that if you want British pickers the remuneration has to increase, because at present the combination of working conditions, amount of work it provides and the fiscal reward are insufficient for many to warrant bothering.

Which is fair enough but obviously comes with an allied price increase.

[sockwithaticket]

That doesn't change the fact that if you want British pickers the remuneration has to increase, because at present the combination of working conditions, amount of work it provides and the fiscal reward are insufficient for many to warrant bothering.

Which is fair enough but obviously comes with an allied price increase.

We already underpay for a lot of food tbh and supermarkets have exerted far too much influence to squeeze margins on producers. People won't welcome increases to their food bills, but it's a reckoning that needs to happen at some point.

[I like neeps]

I once picked fruit when I was 17 on my friend's dad's farm as we all got fired from the bar/restaurant we worked at and needed a summer job. His dad hired 3 of us and we were absolutely pathetic compared to the Bulgarians he brought across yearly. Even after 6 weeks got nowhere near their output. It's not an easy job, physically it's demanding and when it rains it's mentally sapping. You're relying on people living near the arse end of nowhere and has a car or wanting/needing to live in a static caravan with at least 4 other people. All for minimum wage as well. Not pleasant at all.

It's entirely predictable what has happened and prices will need to rise.

[Rinkals]

"That worked great for everybody" also translates to, "we didn't have to adapt our business model to pay wages that make sense for UK workers when we could bring in Europeans from outside the Eurozone who'd live in barely acceptable conditions for a short period to take home an amount that was cheap for us, but decent for them".

A few weeks or months of low paid temp work in out of the way locations just isn't viable for most domestic workers. If you want them to come something has to be done about the financing, whether that's government subsidy or taking a stand with supermarkets to insist on a price that better reflects the costs of growing and picking produce, their ideal pricepoints be damned. Alternatively, whinge until an exemption is made for to get the cheaper labour back.

Not all fruipickers are in it as a career path.

Some do it for reasons other than money.

Such as?

I'd say none of them are in it as a career. It doesn't occupy enough time or generate enough cash. Even for those coming from countries not using the euro.

That doesn't change the fact that if you want British pickers the remuneration has to increase, because at present the combination of working conditions, amount of work it provides and the fiscal reward are insufficient for many to warrant bothering.

Plenty of people who aren't Jewish go to live on a Kibbutz in Israel.

The hours are long, the pay is fuckall but most find it a rewarding experience and a chance to meet new friends without being tied into a full time job or working in the formal sector and I would imagine that fruit picking in England offers a similarly mutually beneficial experience.

This may be difficult for you to accept, but financial reward is not necessarily the sole driver and it's quite possible that the arrangement suits both the fruit pickers and the farmers.

[sockwithaticket]

Yeah ok, Eastern Europeans have been traipsing over to the UK and living in shitty accommodation on site for weeks at a time for the craic.

[Sandstorm]

Yeah ok, Eastern Europeans have been traipsing over to the UK and living in shitty accommodation on site for weeks at a time for the craic.

Hanging out on a kibbutz in the sun with hot Danish and Italian birds on gap years is exactly like picking turnips in a Lincolnshire field in the rain. Identical.

[Openside]

Not all fruipickers are in it as a career path.

Some do it for reasons other than money.

Such as?

I'd say none of them are in it as a career. It doesn't occupy enough time or generate enough cash. Even for those coming from countries not using the euro.

That doesn't change the fact that if you want British pickers the remuneration has to increase, because at present the combination of working conditions, amount of work it provides and the fiscal reward are insufficient for many to warrant bothering.

Plenty of people who aren't Jewish go to live on a Kibbutz in Israel.

The hours are long, the pay is fuckall but most find it a rewarding experience and a chance to meet new friends without being tied into a full time job or working in the formal sector and I would imagine that fruit picking in England offers a similarly mutually beneficial experience.

This may be difficult for you to accept, but financial reward is not necessarily the sole driver and it's quite possible that the arrangement suits both the fruit pickers and the farmers.

Isn’t working on a kibbutz more of a gap yah thing than a desire to ‘work the land’?

[Rinkals]

Yeah ok, Eastern Europeans have been traipsing over to the UK and living in shitty accommodation on site for weeks at a time for the craic.

Hanging out on a kibbutz in the sun with hot Danish and Italian birds on gap years is exactly like picking turnips in a Lincolnshire field in the rain. Identical.

You are deliberately missing my point.

[Rinkals]

Such as?

I'd say none of them are in it as a career. It doesn't occupy enough time or generate enough cash. Even for those coming from countries not using the euro.

That doesn't change the fact that if you want British pickers the remuneration has to increase, because at present the combination of working conditions, amount of work it provides and the fiscal reward are insufficient for many to warrant bothering.

Plenty of people who aren't Jewish go to live on a Kibbutz in Israel.

The hours are long, the pay is fuckall but most find it a rewarding experience and a chance to meet new friends without being tied into a full time job or working in the formal sector and I would imagine that fruit picking in England offers a similarly mutually beneficial experience.

This may be difficult for you to accept, but financial reward is not necessarily the sole driver and it's quite possible that the arrangement suits both the fruit pickers and the farmers.

Isn’t working on a kibbutz more of a gap yah thing than a desire to ‘work the land’?

Yes.

[Insane_Homer]

People won't welcome increases to their food bills, but it's a reckoning that needs to happen at some point.

That's weird since the argument against taxing profits of large multinationals is that it will raise prices and we've been vehemently told by the fiscally responsible that this is a a HUGE no no and very bad.

[Rinkals]

People won't welcome increases to their food bills, but it's a reckoning that needs to happen at some point.

That's weird since the argument against taxing profits of large multinationals is that it will raise prices and we've been vehemently told by the fiscally responsible that this is a a HUGE no no and very bad.

Hang on.

Weren't we assured that one of the benefits of Brexit would be that Britain would be able to negotiate better deals with other countries outside of the EU? When did the 'reckoning that needs to happen' narrative creep in?

I thought the suggestion of 'increases to the food bills' was all part of Project Fear.

[sockwithaticket]

I doubt you'd find many Brexiters agreeing with me that food has been cheaper than it should be for too long. Conversely the suppression of an essential like food costs has allowed costs on other, less essential goods to remain higher than they would otherwise be. It's something that would need to be resolved sooner or later anyway, but Brexit really has forced the issue by taking away a labour pool that allowed parts of the industry to keep their costs down and accommodate the margin squeezing of their buyers (super markets).

As if it needed re-stating, there are no benefits to Brexit except for those whose wealth is not in any way tied to Britain maintaining its previous economic footing.

[Openside]

I doubt you'd find many Brexiters agreeing with me that food has been cheaper than it should be for too long. Conversely the suppression of an essential like food costs has allowed costs on other, less essential goods to remain higher than they would otherwise be. It's something that would need to be resolved sooner or later anyway, but Brexit really has forced the issue by taking away a labour pool that allowed parts of the industry to keep their costs down and accommodate the margin squeezing of their buyers (super markets).

As if it needed re-stating, there are no benefits to Brexit except for those whose wealth is not in any way tied to Britain maintaining its previous economic footing.

I would.

[Hal Jordan]

Hoping we continue to get quite a lot of original foreign language drama here on BBC4 and Channel 4 and not resort to some tit-for-tat ( all too easy to imagine our glorious leaders exerting pressure for that). It is a bit niche though and I guess shows like Borgen just wouldn't be popular in the US unless it's remade in English and localized which is a shame - although I suppose buying the rights must help the original producing countries somewhat.

BBC4 is going to be a repeats only channel in the future so no more new series featuring borderline mentally ill Nordic cops investigating mutilated corpses for you.

[Insane_Homer]

So one of the purposes of Brexit was in fact to make food more expensive, well because it's simply been cheaper than it should?

I don't remember that being on the side of the bus, although it might have been slipped into the Project Fear campaign.