The Official English Rugby Thread

[Margin__Walker]

It was a really good performance from England against a good French team. They blew France away in that second half. Some real quality at 9,10 and 15. Relton on the left wing is comically quick. Replacement front row really made a difference too.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm afraid I was rooting for the six-fingered cranks in this because Sanderson is such an unrepentant cunt, and I also have an irrational dislike of Faf De Clerk that goes beyond the usual "opposition scrum half = anal wart" for some reason.

Exeter will crush us in the final, mind you.

This plus I'm a fan of anything that undermines "buy a bunch of South Africans" as a method to achieve premiership success.

More a fan of the "nick other teams academy prospects and set up a pyramid scheme" model as a pests fan presumably?

Indeed, much less morally reprehensible. When it comes to pointing fingers, it helps that we're back to scouring the championship and promoting our own academy players (because we've run out of money...).

[Torquemada 1420]

Just seen Brizzle v Quins highlights.

1) Possibly the biggest choke ever?
2) Shows just how much rugby is a momentum game.
3) Brizzle will learn the hard way that there is a time not to play to type.
4) WTF was that at the end by the officials? Blatant shoulder to the head.
Doubt it would have affected the result with that time left on the clock but it looked a poor decision.

Looked great entertainment though and well done Quins.

[Kawazaki]

Stephen Jones in today's ST;

We saw the glorious attacking abilities of great players such as Semi Radradra, Max Malins — who scored a hat-trick — and Charles Piutau. And in Bristol’s fast ascendancy, Callum Sheedy, one day a Lion beyond doubt, was vastly superior to the more flighty Marcus Smith, the Quins fly half.

[sockwithaticket]

Stephen Jones in today's ST;

We saw the glorious attacking abilities of great players such as Semi Radradra, Max Malins — who scored a hat-trick — and Charles Piutau. And in Bristol’s fast ascendancy, Callum Sheedy, one day a Lion beyond doubt, was vastly superior to the more flighty Marcus Smith, the Quins fly half.

Bloody hell. In a career of deliberately terrible takes, that's particularly awful.

[sockwithaticket]

Just seen Brizzle v Quins highlights.

1) Possibly the biggest choke ever?
2) Shows just how much rugby is a momentum game.
3) Brizzle will learn the hard way that there is a time not to play to type.
4) WTF was that at the end by the officials? Blatant shoulder to the head.
Doubt it would have affected the result with that time left on the clock but it looked a poor decision.

Looked great entertainment though and well done Quins.

Highlights can't possibly do that game justice, get thee to the Prem rugby site for a full replay.

On 3, against either of the others Bristol's style wouldn't have allowed them to run up such a lead early on. They're now 0/2 for play offs. They definitely need to grow a pragmatic streak.

I can understand how the officials reached their decision, but I think it was a yellow. It's exactly the type of hit/tackle world rugby want gone and there was contact with the jaw albeit softer than we often see.

[tc27]

Just seen Brizzle v Quins highlights.

1) Possibly the biggest choke ever?
2) Shows just how much rugby is a momentum game.
3) Brizzle will learn the hard way that there is a time not to play to type.
4) WTF was that at the end by the officials? Blatant shoulder to the head.
Doubt it would have affected the result with that time left on the clock but it looked a poor decision.

Looked great entertainment though and well done Quins.

Highlights can't possibly do that game justice, get thee to the Prem rugby site for a full replay.

On 3, against either of the others Bristol's style wouldn't have allowed them to run up such a lead early on. They're now 0/2 for play offs. They definitely need to grow a pragmatic streak.

I can understand how the officials reached their decision, but I think it was a yellow. It's exactly the type of hit/tackle world rugby want gone and there was contact with the jaw albeit softer than we often see.

Got a link to the full replay?

[JM2K6]

Stephen Jones in today's ST;

We saw the glorious attacking abilities of great players such as Semi Radradra, Max Malins — who scored a hat-trick — and Charles Piutau. And in Bristol’s fast ascendancy, Callum Sheedy, one day a Lion beyond doubt, was vastly superior to the more flighty Marcus Smith, the Quins fly half.

I didn't think the victory could taste any sweeter but Jones' bitterness seems to have enhanced it. Wonderful!

[Kawazaki]

Jones had obviously written his article by half time, got on the sauce and then put his feet up. He tries to crow bar in as much at he can into the rewrite though. He talks more about Michael Lynagh than Louis.

[sockwithaticket]

Just seen Brizzle v Quins highlights.

1) Possibly the biggest choke ever?
2) Shows just how much rugby is a momentum game.
3) Brizzle will learn the hard way that there is a time not to play to type.
4) WTF was that at the end by the officials? Blatant shoulder to the head.
Doubt it would have affected the result with that time left on the clock but it looked a poor decision.

Looked great entertainment though and well done Quins.

Highlights can't possibly do that game justice, get thee to the Prem rugby site for a full replay.

On 3, against either of the others Bristol's style wouldn't have allowed them to run up such a lead early on. They're now 0/2 for play offs. They definitely need to grow a pragmatic streak.

I can understand how the officials reached their decision, but I think it was a yellow. It's exactly the type of hit/tackle world rugby want gone and there was contact with the jaw albeit softer than we often see.

Got a link to the full replay?

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/watch/ ... mi-final-1

[SaintK]

Jones had obviously written his article by half time, got on the sauce and then put his feet up. He tries to crow bar in as much at he can into the rewrite though. He talks more about Michael Lynagh than Louis.

Quite!
His columns and match reports are becoming more and more bizarre!

[JM2K6]

Becoming?

Jones has been a useless pisshead for about 15 years. He rarely watches games and doesn't understand what he's watching when he does. Plus because of the whole Saracens farrago he hates Quins, which is a lovely bonus.

Smith was superb yesterday in ways you might not expect - joint highest tackler in the team with 16 made and 4 missed, and only Earl made more but missed more (17/5). Plus he hit countless rucks with real venom and refused to let Bristol have easy possession. Not everything he tried ball in hand came off but he nailed the opportunities that arrived and very clearly showed that "test match animal" attitude people want. Sheedy was anonymous after the first half hour and Randall was their real playmaker when they were under the cosh.

Great to see Randall back, forgot just how sharp he is.

[SaintK]

Smith was superb yesterday in ways you might not expect - joint highest tackler in the team with 16 made and 4 missed, and only Earl made more but missed more (17/5). Plus he hit countless rucks with real venom and refused to let Bristol have easy possession. Not everything he tried ball in hand came off but he nailed the opportunities that arrived and very clearly showed that "test match animal" attitude people want.

I've not been his greatest fan but have to say that if he doesn't get a decent shot at an England shirt soon it will be a travesty

[Kawazaki]

Smith was superb yesterday in ways you might not expect - joint highest tackler in the team with 16 made and 4 missed, and only Earl made more but missed more (17/5). Plus he hit countless rucks with real venom and refused to let Bristol have easy possession. Not everything he tried ball in hand came off but he nailed the opportunities that arrived and very clearly showed that "test match animal" attitude people want.

I've not been his greatest fan but have to say that if he doesn't get a decent shot at an England shirt soon it will be a travesty

Meh.

There's been far greater selection travesties in the Jones era although I agree Smith should get his chance.

[Margin__Walker]

Smith was superb yesterday in ways you might not expect - joint highest tackler in the team with 16 made and 4 missed, and only Earl made more but missed more (17/5). Plus he hit countless rucks with real venom and refused to let Bristol have easy possession. Not everything he tried ball in hand came off but he nailed the opportunities that arrived and very clearly showed that "test match animal" attitude people want.

I've not been his greatest fan but have to say that if he doesn't get a decent shot at an England shirt soon it will be a travesty

Meh.

There's been far greater selection travesties in the Jones era although I agree Smith should get his chance.

Tell me about it. We'll never know what Jackson Wray could have achieved wearing the rose.

[Kawazaki]

I've not been his greatest fan but have to say that if he doesn't get a decent shot at an England shirt soon it will be a travesty

Meh.

There's been far greater selection travesties in the Jones era although I agree Smith should get his chance.

Tell me about it. We'll never know what Jackson Wray could have achieved wearing the rose.

Ignoring the multiple League and European cup winner was beyond tragedy, especially when you factor in the plodder loser picked instead. I reckon it almost reaches 'Cataclysmic' level but is comfortably 'Catastrophic'.

Sticking with Youngs is the level above Cataclysmic. I don't even think there's a word for it.

[Margin__Walker]

The Youngs / JVP dynamic at Leicester next season will be fascinating.

JVP looks such a complete 9 for his age.

[SaintK]

I've not been his greatest fan but have to say that if he doesn't get a decent shot at an England shirt soon it will be a travesty

Meh.

There's been far greater selection travesties in the Jones era although I agree Smith should get his chance.

Tell me about it. We'll never know what Jackson Wray could have achieved wearing the rose.

A yellow card in the first 30 seconds of his debut

[Un Pilier]

Wray’s tangle in the corner was a really teasing start I found the two semi-finals hugely entertaining in their different ways. In fact the last few weeks of the season have offered some excellent rugby. It’s maybe worth saying that despite their detractors BT Sport’s coverage has been admirable.

[Oxbow]

Will Capon, Max Malins, Harry Randall, Ben Curry, Curtis Langdon, Bevan Rodd, Manu Tuilagi, Ollie Sleightholme and George Furbank added to the England squad.

From a Saints point of view, really pleased to see Sleightholme get called up, but slightly confused about Furbank, maybe Eddie was after Freeman and just asked about 'that Northampton fullback mate' and got given the wrong one.

[Kawazaki]

Furbank is there purely because if he wasn't then it would be a tacit admission by Jones that he made a mistake capping him in the first place. And Jones's ego simply doesn't do mea culpa.

[Saint]

Freeman has surgery scheduled this summer - something to do with his knees to head off major issues in the future

[SaintK]

Jack Singleton (Gloucester), Tom Willis (Wasps), Tom de Glanville (Bath), Fraser Dingwall (Northampton), Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish), Tom Parton (London Irish), Ben Spencer (Bath). All released from England training squad yesterday.
Spencer really must have pissed on Jones's cornflakes!!!!
Surprised that Hassell-Collins hasn't been retained as well

[Margin__Walker]

Jack Singleton (Gloucester), Tom Willis (Wasps), Tom de Glanville (Bath), Fraser Dingwall (Northampton), Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish), Tom Parton (London Irish), Ben Spencer (Bath). All released from England training squad yesterday.
Spencer really must have pissed on Jones's cornflakes!!!!
Surprised that Hassell-Collins hasn't been retained as well

OHC's omission is a head scratcher. He's absolutely not the worst winger of that bunch, but I guess Eddie knows what he wants. Mildly funny from a LI point of view. The one player who's made the cut at this point is our 5th choice lock.

Singleton wasn't actually with the squad as far as I'm aware. Was Oghre released.

[sockwithaticket]

I'd have OHC ahead of Cokanasiga for sure.

Really don't get the point of bringing Manu in. We know what he can do when he's fully fit and we shouldn't need him to beat the two North American teams or Scotland A, so leave him with Sale to get a full pre-season under his belt and we'll see where he is come the autumn.

[JM2K6]

Yup, agree with all that. Manu's only just back from a long injury, what is the point of this? OH-C actually produces on a regular basis and is one of the standout wings. Spencer offers a well-rounded game and while Robson and Randall are also excellent options, what is the reason for rating him below those two?

A lot depends on who gets called up from the finalists I guess - Tom Willis would be a big miss if Dombrandt isn't selected, for example

[inactionman]

I'd have OHC ahead of Cokanasiga for sure.

Really don't get the point of bringing Manu in. We know what he can do when he's fully fit and we shouldn't need him to beat the two North American teams or Scotland A, so leave him with Sale to get a full pre-season under his belt and we'll see where he is come the autumn.

Knowing Eddie, so he can try him out in the back row.

[sockwithaticket]

I'd have OHC ahead of Cokanasiga for sure.

Really don't get the point of bringing Manu in. We know what he can do when he's fully fit and we shouldn't need him to beat the two North American teams or Scotland A, so leave him with Sale to get a full pre-season under his belt and we'll see where he is come the autumn.

Knowing Eddie, so he can try him out in the back row.

Please don't put that idea out into the universe...

[JM2K6]

More media horseshit about the Exeter bans: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... safer-game

PLAYERS ARE THE LOSERS WHEN THEY END UP WITH CTE, DEPRESSION, AND EARLY ONSET ALZHEIMERS. GET IT INTO YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULLS.

Fuck sake.

MAYBE poor Sam Skinner shouldn't have aimed a high shot at a player who was already being tackled?!?!

Four years in, the tackle height has come down. Big hits to the upper body are no longer practised or celebrated as they were. The tacklers are doing their best.

Unsupported codswallop.

[sockwithaticket]

Eggchasers have been particularly bad on this, I'm really contemplating dropping them. For all that I enjoy the extent to which they love the Prem and talk about it in more detail than, say, Rugby Union Weekly, the bad takes and insufferability are mounting.

"What's the coaching point for Sam Skinner?" Don't go in high for a two man tackle? Don't make a needless two man tackle? Accept that the risk of the player breaking free and having to track back is worth not hitting that player in the head?

[JM2K6]

bUt WhAt If ThEy ScOrE a TrY?!

Well you don't see people risking serious injury with foul play in any other sport in order to prevent a score - that mindset needs to change completely. Fuck, scores are even more crucial in football and players don't routinely injure other players to prevent a goal being scored.

[sockwithaticket]

Exactly. We've also seen in relation to things like shouldering jackallers in the head "But how else can you get them off the ball in that situation?" - well, you try to do it more legally and if you can't it's because they won the ball and that has to be ok.

I said in Torq's thread that it's quite clear coaches and players don't view other players' welfare as more important than stopping offloads and passes out of the tackle or making a big hit. Even leaving aside an expectation of empathy for and toward fellow pros, I'm not sure any of them quite appreciate how much of an existential threat to the sport and their livelihoods lawsuits around head injuries could be.

[Brazil]

That article's as incoherent as all the other outpourings on this, particularly Baxter's extended whine. The issue isn't with players being banned for high shots, they've known what the interpretation is and have done for ages. It's to do with obvious reds not being given by refs looking for excuses to keep players on the pitch. It's also not as if there isn't a degree of mitigation to compensate for the situation he describes of defenders being on the back foot, we saw that with Manu's yellow at the weekend where the circumstances were sufficient to downgrade it to a yellow, something that all of the officials agreed with. Even then, if he had been red carded and if he subsequently still gets a ban, nobody could have complained.

As for "it's the players who suffer", the Grauniad has been running a campaign precisely about the effects of head collisions on older players, and now it comes out with a nonsense piece that throws statistics around like Gibbon shit without any conclusion other than we think Sam Skinner has been hard done by so players should be allowed to get away with high shots. Bet if it had been a Saffer doing it at a less favoured club they'd have a different take.

[Un Pilier]

Rob Baxter’s post-match interview on BT Sport was interesting. His point about players pursuing appeals tending to attract increased sentences is valid, I think, and I agree of course that we need more consistency, but he didn’t give me the impression of whole-hearted commitment to the player welfare cause. Greater consistency should come by referees continuing to explain their thought processes, by using exemplars from people like Barnes getting it right and also some others (some Dickson examples spring to mind) getting it wrong. The appeal process should be used to refine and reinforce policy and practice.

[Hells Bells]

Tuilagi out of the squad with an injury, Dingwall called in as a replacement.

[ASMO]

Tuilagi out of the squad with an injury, Dingwall called in as a replacement.

England should just dispense with him altogether, he is nearly always broken and i suspect it will only get worse.

[Hal Jordan]

Yes, but he's cut three killer lines in three years for England so he's a shoo in.

[Kawazaki]

Tuilagi out of the squad with an injury, Dingwall called in as a replacement.

England should just dispense with him altogether, he is nearly always broken and i suspect it will only get worse.

I suspect Tuilagi is probably thinking what's the point of him playing against USA and Canada, far better to get a good rest and pre-season in that get flogged by a sociopath for a month.

[sockwithaticket]

Players talk about being sort of 'battle-hardened', like there's only so much you can prepare your body for the impacts of games, at a certain point only playing and getting hit trains your body in the right way.

Manu spends so much time on the sidelines that he can't possibly be in that state and then you start him in two of the most physical games of Sale's season before sending him into England camp and Eddie's notoriously tough training...


I also reckon he's a combo of too big for his frame and bearing the result of being used as a battering ram in senior rugby since he was 18 years old.

[Kawazaki]

Players talk about being sort of 'battle-hardened', like there's only so much you can prepare your body for the impacts of games, at a certain point only playing and getting hit trains your body in the right way.

Manu spends so much time on the sidelines that he can't possibly be in that state and then you start him in two of the most physical games of Sale's season before sending him into England camp and Eddie's notoriously tough training...


I also reckon he's a combo of too big for his frame and bearing the result of being used as a battering ram in senior rugby since he was 18 years old.

Have you seen pictures of Manu Tuilagi when he was playing for England u16s? He's always been massive. I think he's about 110kgs which is not excessive for his frame.