The Official English Rugby Thread

[JM2K6]

Underhill (concussion) and Dingwall (calf) are both injured as well from training so that’s 4 players broken so far in camp.

Fuck sake.

I'd love to know how other teams' camps compare to ours.

[Kawazaki]

Underhill (concussion) and Dingwall (calf) are both injured as well from training so that’s 4 players broken so far in camp.

Eddie is a fucking menace.

[JM2K6]

A Team announced

Dan Kelly?

Edit: just looked him up (genuinely hadn't heard of him!). Clearly an anti-Irish poach selection. Never expect to see his name on an England team sheet ever again. A pity for him.

I *think* he's a reasonably physical and lively player, if it's the one I'm thinking of, but I've seen him maybe twice? Definitely a bit of a bolt from the blue. Mark Atkinson might have been a short term alternative.

[Kawazaki]

He was capped by Ireland at u20s. This has political selection writ large all over it.

[geordie_6]

Are the A team games still our nominated rep side to lock people in, or has that switched to u20s?

[Kawazaki]

Are the A team games still our nominated rep side to lock people in, or has that switched to u20s?

I don't think England has ever used U20s to lock in. Was Saxons which is now A.

I wouldn't be surprised if locking in dual-qualified players becomes the primary reason for arranging these fixtures.

[JM2K6]

Ireland don't select from outside of Ireland except in exceptional circumstances, right?

[sockwithaticket]

A Team announced

Poor bloody Dan Robson

Is Kelly any good? Ludlow as captain is an interesting call.

From what I've seen of him Kelly could actually be an answer for England at 12 going forward. partly due to our lack of options, but he's a big lad and doesn't seem averse to or bad at passing or offloading to bring in his outside men when given the opportunity. Tigers' gameplan became increasingly conservative through the back end of the season, though, so certainly haven't seen the best of him recently. At 19/20 there's huge potential upside.



Don't know if this being the A game changes anything about selection, but Robson behind Randall does seem odd. I would've taken literally any of the other back three options ahead of Cokanasiga on the bench. Probably would've had Curry ahead of Ludlam too. Front 5 is pretty uninspriring, but there aren't really any better options in the squad to sub in so *shrug*

[sockwithaticket]

Are the A team games still our nominated rep side to lock people in, or has that switched to u20s?

U20s can't be a designated capture team, rules on that changed a few years ago.

[sockwithaticket]

As far as I'm aware, most of them weren't qualified when they came over. 3 year residency poaches always feel dirty.

They may feel 'dirty' but players like Tuilagi, Barritt, the Vunipolas etc have been some of the finest players for England in the last decade. I've never seen a braver player in an England shirt than Brad Barritt either, regardless of where they were born.

Point is, the Sale team offers none of these potential benefits to England rugby by employing capped players.

Tuilagi and the Vunipolas grew up and went to school here from just before they became teenagers, so I view them a bit differently to people who did all their growing up overseas and came over already as pro players.

Again, Barritt's lineage and his family connection still in England make me view him differently to someone like Rhodes. Judging poachiness is definitely a case by case thing.

In general, though, bringing in loads of foreign adult pros who can only qualify on residency is not something I like. Further demerits if they're already capped and will never be EQP. The odd really talented capped foreign player who helps upskill a squad is fine, but they really should be the exception.

[geordie_6]

Are the A team games still our nominated rep side to lock people in, or has that switched to u20s?

U20s can't be a designated capture team, rules on that changed a few years ago.

Thought I could remember something along those lines, cheers mate.

[sockwithaticket]

Are the A team games still our nominated rep side to lock people in, or has that switched to u20s?

U20s can't be a designated capture team, rules on that changed a few years ago.

Thought I could remember something along those lines, cheers mate.

Think it was the Shingler incident between Wales and Scotland that sparked it. That and teams kept chopping and changing between U20s and A which must have made it tricky to keep track of whether you should accept an invitation to play or not.

t's fair enough really, some players at U20 level are in age group sides because it's the highest level of rugby they have access to at that time, not necessarily because it relates to their national identity. Haskell been quite open that he tried out for Wales U18s just to get his mitts on expenses!

[sockwithaticket]

Covid in the Scots' ranks, game still on (for now...)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57608356

[JM2K6]

Teams for the final. Quins with Chisholm starting and Esterhuizen finally back:

Harlequins Starting XV
1. Joe Marler (225)
2. Scott Baldwin (43)
3. Wilco Louw (28)
4. Matt Symons (63)
5. Stephan Lewies (35) - Captain
6. James Chisholm (112)
7. Jack Kenningham (12)
8. Alex Dombrandt (76)
9. Danny Care (306)
10. Marcus Smith (110)
11. Cadan Murley (47)
12. Andre Esterhuizen (18)
13. Joe Marchant (113)
14. Louis Lynagh (13)
15. Tyrone Green (21)

Impact Players
16. Joe Gray (173)
17. Santiago Garcia Botta (37)
18. Will Collier (188)
19. Dino Lamb (48)
20. Tom Lawday (39)
21. Martin Landajo (37)
22. Ben Tapuai (45)
23. Luke Northmore (27)

Unavailable for selection:
Mike Brown, Sam Riley

Unavailable due to injury:
Aaron Morris, Jordan Els, Oscar Beard, Paul Lasike, Will Evans

Exeter with a few absentees, Hogg benched again

15 Jack Nowell
14 Alex Cuthbert
13 Henry Slade
12 Ollie Devoto
11 Tom O’Flaherty
10 Joe Simmonds (capt)
9 Jack Maunder
1 Alec Hepburn
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie
3 Harry Williams
4 Jonny Gray
5 Jonny Hill
6 Jannes Kirsten
7 Richard Capstick
8 Sam Simmonds

16 Jack Yeandle
17 Ben Moon
18 Marcus Street
19 Sean Lonsdale
20 Don Armand
21 Stu Townsend
22 Harvey Skinner
23 Stuart Hogg

[Kawazaki]

As far as I'm aware, most of them weren't qualified when they came over. 3 year residency poaches always feel dirty.

They may feel 'dirty' but players like Tuilagi, Barritt, the Vunipolas etc have been some of the finest players for England in the last decade. I've never seen a braver player in an England shirt than Brad Barritt either, regardless of where they were born.

Point is, the Sale team offers none of these potential benefits to England rugby by employing capped players.

Tuilagi and the Vunipolas grew up and went to school here from just before they became teenagers, so I view them a bit differently to people who did all their growing up overseas and came over already as pro players.

Again, Barritt's lineage and his family connection still in England make me view him differently to someone like Rhodes. Judging poachiness is definitely a case by case thing.

In general, though, bringing in loads of foreign adult pros who can only qualify on residency is not something I like. Further demerits if they're already capped and will never be EQP. The odd really talented capped foreign player who helps upskill a squad is fine, but they really should be the exception.

Manu Tuilagi was an 'illegal alien' who nearly got deported as a 16 year old actually but I understand the point. It doesn't change the fact that a capped South African will never potentially play for England regardless of how, when or why he arrives over here.

[Kawazaki]

Would love to get a pic of Mike Brown watching the final through gritted teeth in his new gaff in Newcastle.

[JM2K6]

He'll be fine.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... n-24361090

[Margin__Walker]

U20s game

[notfatcat]

Again, Barritt's lineage and his family connection still in England make me view him differently to someone like Rhodes. Judging poachiness is definitely a case by case thing.

Yeah, for all I know Barritt may have considered himself pretty English before he joined Sarries. All four grandparents were/are English and his parents were both born in Rhodesia if I remember correctly.

Also, a bit of fairly irrelevant info, but I'm pretty sure that Nils Mordt went to school over here and played for England U16s at 12, which caused Tom Williams (who also played 12 at school) to play for Wales at U16s. I wouldn't class Mordt as brazenly Saffer like the rest of the Sarries lot.

[sockwithaticket]

JvP over early after a pretty powerful maul.

[Kawazaki]

He'll be fine.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... n-24361090

Ironic given Quins wouldn't have won the semi if Brown was playing.

[sockwithaticket]

Baby Orcs starting to get their rhythm with ball in hand. 3rd try posted just into the second quarter. Lancaster's boy grabbing a lot of praise from comms. Fin Smith has been playing really well so far.

[geordie_6]

Baby Orcs starting to get their rhythm with ball in hand. 3rd try posted just into the second quarter. Lancaster's boy grabbing a lot of praise from comms. Fin Smith has been playing really well so far.

Watching this game is just making me feel old...

[JM2K6]

He'll be fine.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... n-24361090

Ironic given Quins wouldn't have won the semi if Brown was playing.

Interesting call given Brown's form prior to the ban (that had even you salivating) and his leadership but sure, whatever. Green would still have played, just on the wing...



U20s: The Baileys look good, eh.

[sockwithaticket]

Lineout needs some work, possession lost from it going awry have given Scotland a foothold.

Baby Orcs starting to get their rhythm with ball in hand. 3rd try posted just into the second quarter. Lancaster's boy grabbing a lot of praise from comms. Fin Smith has been playing really well so far.

Watching this game is just making me feel old...

The famous names on some of these boys certainly lend to feeling dated.

[sockwithaticket]

Scots dogged at the breakdown and getting a fair few pens out of it, but their lineout is also pretty shoddy. England 2 scores to the good at half time, but will be frustrated.

[Margin__Walker]

Don't think I've seen a half of rugby with as many failed lineout routines and overthrows from both teams. Shame, because both hookers are having decent games outside of that.

[Kawazaki]

He'll be fine.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... n-24361090

Ironic given Quins wouldn't have won the semi if Brown was playing.

Interesting call given Brown's form prior to the ban (that had even you salivating) and his leadership but sure, whatever. Green would still have played, just on the wing...



U20s: The Baileys look good, eh.

Mike Brown has never made me salivate. Ever.

[JM2K6]

Well, you claimed his form was stellar, and given the hours you've spent slagging him off then that's pretty drool-y for you!

[sockwithaticket]

Riley with a class try to go with his other efforts. If only his throwing were more reliable...

[Kawazaki]

Well, you claimed his form was stellar, and given the hours you've spent slagging him off then that's pretty drool-y for you!

Stellar? Are you sure?

'Plays like he's been drinking Stella' perhaps?

[JM2K6]

Well, you claimed his form was stellar, and given the hours you've spent slagging him off then that's pretty drool-y for you!

Stellar? Are you sure?

'Plays like he's been drinking Stella' perhaps?

I watched the Premiership highlights for the first time in a long time last night. I know it's only highlights, but there is a lot of very talented players on show - Sam Simmonds not getting a look in with England

But also, and this is for JMK, what a game Brown had! I was completely sincere in my constant knocking of him when he was playing for England but he looked like a completely different player.

Yep, Brown is in stellar form.

I wonder what Gustard must be thinking watching this?

It just goes to show how culture and ambition work from the top down. Let's hope the RFU are watching Quin's.

[Kawazaki]

Well there you go. What with the criticism of Farrell you cited yesterday it just goes to prove how even-handed I am. I always call it as I see it.

[JM2K6]

Well, that's an ugly tackle. Should be a red under the current interpretation.

Aaand... it.... is.

Good decision. v dangerous hit.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm not quite sure how he ended up making that a head on head. He was actually fairly crouched down and his arms were at the right level, he just kept his head weirdly high compared to the rest of him.

[JM2K6]

I'm not quite sure how he ended up making that a head on head. He was actually fairly crouched down and his arms were at the right level, he just kept his head weirdly high compared to the rest of him.

Yeah, just crouched instead of bending.

[Margin__Walker]

He didn't ground that

Probably for the best, as we may have been carded again

[sockwithaticket]

Really good hit back having been restored to 14.

[sockwithaticket]

Good result for England despite their shocking discipline. Came through the 13 man period very well.

[Margin__Walker]

Ironically, other than the red, I don't think the discipline was that shocking, despite the huge pen count.

Half of them were for holding on when we were attacking, where we were unable to cope with their 7 and 2 getting over the ball. Most of the rest were goal line offsides when we were under huge pressure. There were very few dumb ones. Lifting the leg at the maul is the only one that springs to mind.

Definitely work to do either way though