The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[KingBlairhorn]

Are the Romania and Georgia games, if they go ahead, being shown on telly?

Still TBC last I heard...

[Big D]

Sounds like it would've been a fairly cheap signing given the drama with Bayonne, so not a bad bit of business. He's an upgrade on what James Lang would've been offering as a utility back.

Marchant's a 13/wing these days and yeah, Northmore has also been excellent. Green will be joined by Nick David as a fullback option next season and he's been tearing it up for Worcs, so there's no obvious spot where Jones is going to get regular games, but he'll likely be a good bench option.

Yeah, worst case you get a player capable of playing 13, wing and full back well and absolute best case you end up with a Lions quality centre for a year(?) on a fairly favourable deal. Low risk and high reward.

[Yr Alban]

Yeah, absolutely - but even if he doesn't he's still a good and flexible squad player.

I’m quite happy to say that Jones at his best is absolutely world class. Real world class, not Johnny May world class

I think he needs a move like this to challenge himself, he is not a comfort zone player. Honestly, I think he will tear it up and you have a brilliant signing

Really?
So why isn't he in the Lions squad and where's he been the past couple of years?

The short version is that Chris Harris (who is in the Lions squad) has been keeping him out of the team.

The longer version is that his move to Glasgow really didn’t work out well. He lost form and was kept out of the side by less talented, but more consistent, players. This coincided with Toony deciding that we were leaking too many tries (which we were) and Harris became a fixture in the team for his defence. As we ended up 2 points v Wales away from the title this year, this has possibly been vindicated, but an on-form Jones in attack has the X-factor, no question about it. Jones found his way back into the team at 15 this season, but 13 remains his best position.

[KingBlairhorn]

I’m quite happy to say that Jones at his best is absolutely world class. Real world class, not Johnny May world class

I think he needs a move like this to challenge himself, he is not a comfort zone player. Honestly, I think he will tear it up and you have a brilliant signing

Really?
So why isn't he in the Lions squad and where's he been the past couple of years?

The short version is that Chris Harris (who is in the Lions squad) has been keeping him out of the team.

The longer version is that his move to Glasgow really didn’t work out well. He lost form and was kept out of the side by less talented, but more consistent, players. This coincided with Toony deciding that we were leaking too many tries (which we were) and Harris became a fixture in the team for his defence. As we ended up 2 points v Wales away from the title this year, this has possibly been vindicated, but an on-form Jones in attack has the X-factor, no question about it. Jones found his way back into the team at 15 this season, but 13 remains his best position.

There was also the Glasgow situation. He moved to Glasgow from Stormers playing some of the best rugby of his career, but for whatever reason he and Rennie just didn't seem to click. He only made 35 starts is 4 years at Glasgow, and a good number of those were at fullback. There have been whispers that he was among a number of players who felt badly treated during that period and I know quite a few Glasgow fans feel that something wasn't quite right between Rennie and some of the players. Of course his struggles at Glasgow badly impacted on his ability to play for Scotland - if Glasgow weren't picking him he couldn't be picked for Scotland either.

[Tichtheid]

Re Jones and Harris, Jones will score tries that Harris never would, but Harris ties a team together like Jones never could.

This is not a direct comparison in terms of ability, but I liken Harris to Conrad Smith, others have spectacular highlights reels, but more often from when Smith was in the team than when he wasn't. Smith only became feted later in his career and didn't get the plaudits he deserved earlier, the coaches always realised his value, more so than the fans.

When Toonie was trying to play the fastest rugby on the planet Jones was the man to do it, but when it became obvious that the plan of jouer jouer doesn't work at international level without a higher level of skill than we had, it was time to change tack.
I will say though, that when Jones was playing regularly he had one of the best, if not the best, defensive record of any international centre, but a narrative has grown about defensive frailties that just was not true.

Quins have got a brilliant signing there, I can't wait to see him playing in a Marcus Smith blinder of a game

[Yr Alban]

Hogg captains the first Lions tour game with Harris, Russell, Price and Watson all starting. Fagerson on the bench. Do we think this is good or bad for our Test Lion prospects? There’s several other players in the team you would expect to make the Test 23.

[Big D]

Hogg captains the first Lions tour game with Harris, Russell, Price and Watson all starting. Fagerson on the bench. Do we think this is good or bad for our Test Lion prospects? There’s several other players in the team you would expect to make the Test 23.

Gatland said everyone would get a start in the first 3 games. Next Saturday might tell us more on test match prospects. Many of our lots direct opponents even for a bench spot played well last week so they will need to start fast.

[KingBlairhorn]

U20s playing Italy right now. Probably best not to tune in, it's 12-0 to Italy already

[KingBlairhorn]

23-3 at half time

[westport]

U20's being routed

[KingBlairhorn]

I've given up at 33-3. An utter mauling.

[ASMO]

Jesus Christ, Scotland are beyond bad. 40 down now

[clydecloggie]

Jesus Christ, Scotland are beyond bad. 40 down now

Tries flying in every 2-3 minutes now. Scotland kick off, panic in the face of some excellent Italian blitz defence, turn it over and then play turnstile to the Italian wingers.

Grim stuff.

[ASMO]

43-3 loss, not even able to score a try, that is disgraceful

[KingBlairhorn]

43-3 loss, not even able to score a try, that is disgraceful

Someone asked a few pages back if Lineen's position is in danger. That is the single worst display by our U20s I have ever seen, so I would have to say yes it is. That can't be acceptable, regardless of the progress Italy have made in their development setup in recent years. It is now likely we will finish the tournament with zero points, to go alongside our relegation from the World Group at the U20 world cup.

[Big D]

43-3 loss, not even able to score a try, that is disgraceful

Someone asked a few pages back if Lineen's position is in danger. That is the single worst display by our U20s I have ever seen, so I would have to say yes it is. That can't be acceptable, regardless of the progress Italy have made in their development setup in recent years. It is now likely we will finish the tournament with zero points, to go alongside our relegation from the World Group at the U20 world cup.

Yup, must be time for change.

[ASMO]

So much of it was just poor execution of the basics, making tackles (i lost count of how many they missed) Passing execution was shocking, the backs positioning was non existent, every time Scotland got the ball they just went backwards, are these players even coached?

[Begbie]

Christ that's embarrassing. What a fuckin shambles.

[Jock42]

Romania game cancelled but they're still intending to play Georgia.

Got to feel for Blair.

[KingBlairhorn]

Just to add to the shit news sandwich, Rory Sutherland is off to Worcester immediately, presumably after they bought out the last year of his contract. The SRU have some serious work to do if players are leaving Edinburgh for Worcester.

[Big D]

Just to add to the shit news sandwich, Rory Sutherland is off to Worcester immediately, presumably after they bought out the last year of his contract. The SRU have some serious work to do if players are leaving Edinburgh for Worcester.

There are a few questions on this really and we'll probably never know the answer:

1. Why wait until now to announce it? It has been rumoured for a while and unlikely the deal was done today.

2. Are Worcester buying him out his deal? I don't think fees count in the salary cap anymore so would hope so.

3. Why is a senior international and British Lion looking to leave to play for a team towards the bottom of the English Prem and giving up the protection of being rested regularly? Is it "only" money (if so fair enough), or is it something deeper than that?

4. Will the money be reinvested? That is two of the three Lions left and not really replaced.

[I like neeps]

Just to add to the shit news sandwich, Rory Sutherland is off to Worcester immediately, presumably after they bought out the last year of his contract. The SRU have some serious work to do if players are leaving Edinburgh for Worcester.

There are a few questions on this really and we'll probably never know the answer:

1. Why wait until now to announce it? It has been rumoured for a while and unlikely the deal was done today.

2. Are Worcester buying him out his deal? I don't think fees count in the salary cap anymore so would hope so.

3. Why is a senior international and British Lion looking to leave to play for a team towards the bottom of the English Prem and giving up the protection of being rested regularly? Is it "only" money (if so fair enough), or is it something deeper than that?

4. Will the money be reinvested? That is two of the three Lions left and not really replaced.

There's surely a fee paid by Worcester. If Rory Sutherland was out of contract he'd have had a raft of suitors and would've been announced a while back. Unless with the SRU pay cuts there's some clause everyone can leave if a better offer comes in?

Also, iirc Sutherland was close to retirement. He talked a lot about that when he became the poster boy for the SRU's transition pathway run by Ben Atiga. I think money means a lot for all players as you have to maximise your earnings. A ringfenced league and higher standard of rugby is likely the bonus.

[I like neeps]

43-3 loss, not even able to score a try, that is disgraceful

Someone asked a few pages back if Lineen's position is in danger. That is the single worst display by our U20s I have ever seen, so I would have to say yes it is. That can't be acceptable, regardless of the progress Italy have made in their development setup in recent years. It is now likely we will finish the tournament with zero points, to go alongside our relegation from the World Group at the U20 world cup.

Lineen wasn't responsible for the relegation from the u20 world cup. I think it was Carl Hogg or Bryan Redpath.

Italy for the last 3 or 4 years have just been better than us at under20s level. That has to be close to the top of concerns for Jim Mallinder. If Italy's youth development is better than ours. Oh dear!

I also can't speak for Italy but Ireland and England's under20s are all academy aligned so surely will have had some pretty good rugby exposure all year. I think we have 9 in the whole squad who are stage 3 or English academy aligned. The lack of rugby these guys have played means they have no chance of doing well.

[Big D]

Just to add to the shit news sandwich, Rory Sutherland is off to Worcester immediately, presumably after they bought out the last year of his contract. The SRU have some serious work to do if players are leaving Edinburgh for Worcester.

There are a few questions on this really and we'll probably never know the answer:

1. Why wait until now to announce it? It has been rumoured for a while and unlikely the deal was done today.

2. Are Worcester buying him out his deal? I don't think fees count in the salary cap anymore so would hope so.

3. Why is a senior international and British Lion looking to leave to play for a team towards the bottom of the English Prem and giving up the protection of being rested regularly? Is it "only" money (if so fair enough), or is it something deeper than that?

4. Will the money be reinvested? That is two of the three Lions left and not really replaced.

There's surely a fee paid by Worcester. If Rory Sutherland was out of contract he'd have had a raft of suitors and would've been announced a while back. Unless with the SRU pay cuts there's some clause everyone can leave if a better offer comes in?

Also, iirc Sutherland was close to retirement. He talked a lot about that when he became the poster boy for the SRU's transition pathway run by Ben Atiga. I think money means a lot for all players as you have to maximise your earnings. A ringfenced league and higher standard of rugby is likely the bonus.

I have no issue with a player taking better money. I'd do the same.

Suggestion on the Edinburgh forum the last year of the deal was an option for a further year only.

[Slick]

Just to add to the shit news sandwich, Rory Sutherland is off to Worcester immediately, presumably after they bought out the last year of his contract. The SRU have some serious work to do if players are leaving Edinburgh for Worcester.

There are a few questions on this really and we'll probably never know the answer:

1. Why wait until now to announce it? It has been rumoured for a while and unlikely the deal was done today.

2. Are Worcester buying him out his deal? I don't think fees count in the salary cap anymore so would hope so.

3. Why is a senior international and British Lion looking to leave to play for a team towards the bottom of the English Prem and giving up the protection of being rested regularly? Is it "only" money (if so fair enough), or is it something deeper than that?

4. Will the money be reinvested? That is two of the three Lions left and not really replaced.

There's surely a fee paid by Worcester. If Rory Sutherland was out of contract he'd have had a raft of suitors and would've been announced a while back. Unless with the SRU pay cuts there's some clause everyone can leave if a better offer comes in?

Also, iirc Sutherland was close to retirement. He talked a lot about that when he became the poster boy for the SRU's transition pathway run by Ben Atiga. I think money means a lot for all players as you have to maximise your earnings. A ringfenced league and higher standard of rugby is likely the bonus.

Yes, at least 3 years of Premiership rugby and the wages that come with that

[Slick]

43-3 loss, not even able to score a try, that is disgraceful

Someone asked a few pages back if Lineen's position is in danger. That is the single worst display by our U20s I have ever seen, so I would have to say yes it is. That can't be acceptable, regardless of the progress Italy have made in their development setup in recent years. It is now likely we will finish the tournament with zero points, to go alongside our relegation from the World Group at the U20 world cup.

Lineen wasn't responsible for the relegation from the u20 world cup. I think it was Carl Hogg or Bryan Redpath.

Italy for the last 3 or 4 years have just been better than us at under20s level. That has to be close to the top of concerns for Jim Mallinder. If Italy's youth development is better than ours. Oh dear!

I also can't speak for Italy but Ireland and England's under20s are all academy aligned so surely will have had some pretty good rugby exposure all year. I think we have 9 in the whole squad who are stage 3 or English academy aligned. The lack of rugby these guys have played means they have no chance of doing well.

This always comes back to only having 2 pro teams, these young guys need game time. I do think Super6 will help when it gets going, but nothing like 3rd pro team.

I know this may be controversial, but hearing Dodson talk about the possibility of a pro women’s team made me wonder if that’s really where our limited resources should be going

[SomersetJock]

Just read Stephen Ferris is the latest “expert” calling Duhan’s defence into question, it really does seem to annoy certain people in the rugby world when we unearth a gem of a player

Apparently he won’t be able to deal with Kolbe, like there is anyone out there who is able to

[I like neeps]

Someone asked a few pages back if Lineen's position is in danger. That is the single worst display by our U20s I have ever seen, so I would have to say yes it is. That can't be acceptable, regardless of the progress Italy have made in their development setup in recent years. It is now likely we will finish the tournament with zero points, to go alongside our relegation from the World Group at the U20 world cup.

Lineen wasn't responsible for the relegation from the u20 world cup. I think it was Carl Hogg or Bryan Redpath.

Italy for the last 3 or 4 years have just been better than us at under20s level. That has to be close to the top of concerns for Jim Mallinder. If Italy's youth development is better than ours. Oh dear!

I also can't speak for Italy but Ireland and England's under20s are all academy aligned so surely will have had some pretty good rugby exposure all year. I think we have 9 in the whole squad who are stage 3 or English academy aligned. The lack of rugby these guys have played means they have no chance of doing well.

This always comes back to only having 2 pro teams, these young guys need game time. I do think Super6 will help when it gets going, but nothing like 3rd pro team.

I know this may be controversial, but hearing Dodson talk about the possibility of a pro women’s team made me wonder if that’s really where our limited resources should be going

A pro women's team will cost a fraction of a pro men's team though so it's slightly apples and oranges.

I don't think it does come back to a third pro team. Even the pro team aligned stage 3 guys like Samuel, Scott, Williamson and others haven't stepped up. This is the super 6 I think - you just can't have boys who haven't played a competitive rugby match in 18 months and missing a huge huge part of their development competing. This is the inevitable result.

[Slick]

Lineen wasn't responsible for the relegation from the u20 world cup. I think it was Carl Hogg or Bryan Redpath.

Italy for the last 3 or 4 years have just been better than us at under20s level. That has to be close to the top of concerns for Jim Mallinder. If Italy's youth development is better than ours. Oh dear!

I also can't speak for Italy but Ireland and England's under20s are all academy aligned so surely will have had some pretty good rugby exposure all year. I think we have 9 in the whole squad who are stage 3 or English academy aligned. The lack of rugby these guys have played means they have no chance of doing well.

This always comes back to only having 2 pro teams, these young guys need game time. I do think Super6 will help when it gets going, but nothing like 3rd pro team.

I know this may be controversial, but hearing Dodson talk about the possibility of a pro women’s team made me wonder if that’s really where our limited resources should be going

A pro women's team will cost a fraction of a pro men's team though so it's slightly apples and oranges.

I don't think it does come back to a third pro team. Even the pro team aligned stage 3 guys like Samuel, Scott, Williamson and others haven't stepped up. This is the super 6 I think - you just can't have boys who haven't played a competitive rugby match in 18 months and missing a huge huge part of their development competing. This is the inevitable result.

Yup, all good points

[Yr Alban]

Just read Stephen Ferris is the latest “expert” calling Duhan’s defence into question, it really does seem to annoy certain people in the rugby world when we unearth a gem of a player

Apparently he won’t be able to deal with Kolbe, like there is anyone out there who is able to

There are certainly people out there who think Scotland shouldn’t be allowed to have good players, win games or get spots on a Lions team.

[Big D]

Just read Stephen Ferris is the latest “expert” calling Duhan’s defence into question, it really does seem to annoy certain people in the rugby world when we unearth a gem of a player

Apparently he won’t be able to deal with Kolbe, like there is anyone out there who is able to

It is an easy trope to follow. Duhan isn't a natural defender and relies on his size and pace a lot, which is fine as plenty do so. It is fair to say he isn't the best or most natural defender out there but massively unfair to call him a liability.

[Yr Alban]

Just read Stephen Ferris is the latest “expert” calling Duhan’s defence into question, it really does seem to annoy certain people in the rugby world when we unearth a gem of a player

Apparently he won’t be able to deal with Kolbe, like there is anyone out there who is able to

It is an easy trope to follow. Duhan isn't a natural defender and relies on his size and pace a lot, which is fine as plenty do so. It is fair to say he isn't the best or most natural defender out there but massively unfair to call him a liability.

As I’ve just posted on the Lions thread, over the 6N he missed the fewest tackles and had the highest tackle completion rate of all the wingers on the tour. It’s nonsense.

[robmatic]

Someone asked a few pages back if Lineen's position is in danger. That is the single worst display by our U20s I have ever seen, so I would have to say yes it is. That can't be acceptable, regardless of the progress Italy have made in their development setup in recent years. It is now likely we will finish the tournament with zero points, to go alongside our relegation from the World Group at the U20 world cup.

Lineen wasn't responsible for the relegation from the u20 world cup. I think it was Carl Hogg or Bryan Redpath.

Italy for the last 3 or 4 years have just been better than us at under20s level. That has to be close to the top of concerns for Jim Mallinder. If Italy's youth development is better than ours. Oh dear!

I also can't speak for Italy but Ireland and England's under20s are all academy aligned so surely will have had some pretty good rugby exposure all year. I think we have 9 in the whole squad who are stage 3 or English academy aligned. The lack of rugby these guys have played means they have no chance of doing well.

This always comes back to only having 2 pro teams, these young guys need game time. I do think Super6 will help when it gets going, but nothing like 3rd pro team.

I know this may be controversial, but hearing Dodson talk about the possibility of a pro women’s team made me wonder if that’s really where our limited resources should be going

If they do get a pro women's team going it will cost peanuts, relatively. Actually I think the SRU putting a bit more focus on the women's game makes a lot of sense for them as an organisation. Realistically there's probably an upper bound on how many boys and men they will be able to get playing the game but you can theoretically double that with the women's game, so there's a lot of scope for the SRU to increase participation numbers and get more folk involved in clubs etc which is a big part of what they should be about and probably what they need to do long-term to remain relevant.

[Big D]

If they do get a pro women's team going it will cost peanuts, relatively. Actually I think the SRU putting a bit more focus on the women's game makes a lot of sense for them as an organisation. Realistically there's probably an upper bound on how many boys and men they will be able to get playing the game but you can theoretically double that with the women's game, so there's a lot of scope for the SRU to increase participation numbers and get more folk involved in clubs etc which is a big part of what they should be about and probably what they need to do long-term to remain relevant.

Womans rugby is growing in this country. More clubs than ever are creating opportunities for girls and ladies to play the game. The key thing is going to be timing and location.

[Big D]

Just read Stephen Ferris is the latest “expert” calling Duhan’s defence into question, it really does seem to annoy certain people in the rugby world when we unearth a gem of a player

Apparently he won’t be able to deal with Kolbe, like there is anyone out there who is able to

It is an easy trope to follow. Duhan isn't a natural defender and relies on his size and pace a lot, which is fine as plenty do so. It is fair to say he isn't the best or most natural defender out there but massively unfair to call him a liability.

As I’ve just posted on the Lions thread, over the 6N he missed the fewest tackles and had the highest tackle completion rate of all the wingers on the tour. It’s nonsense.

Ferris I assume was only referring to tackling and he was wrong but defence is about more than just making/not making tackles that are attempted. Tackling only tells part of the story about how good a defender someone is. It doesn't tell the story about whether a player was in position, or tackles that weren't even attempted because a player was out of position, or exploited by a kick for being out of position leading to losing field position.

I don't expect Duhan to play test matches on tour but it wont be because of missed tackles.

[Yr Alban]

It is an easy trope to follow. Duhan isn't a natural defender and relies on his size and pace a lot, which is fine as plenty do so. It is fair to say he isn't the best or most natural defender out there but massively unfair to call him a liability.

As I’ve just posted on the Lions thread, over the 6N he missed the fewest tackles and had the highest tackle completion rate of all the wingers on the tour. It’s nonsense.

Ferris I assume was only referring to tackling and he was wrong but defence is about more than just making/not making tackles that are attempted. Tackling only tells part of the story about how good a defender someone is. It doesn't tell the story about whether a player was in position, or tackles that weren't even attempted because a player was out of position, or exploited by a kick for being out of position leading to losing field position.

I don't expect Duhan to play test matches on tour but it wont be because of missed tackles.

I accept this entirely, but I think the stats tell a story all the same. Duhan had one bad missed tackle in the tournament and I’m sure that’s what all this is based on. The same happened to Chris Paterson 16 years ago.

Although it doesn’t exactly tell you about their positioning, all of the tour wingers but one attempted roughly similar numbers of tackles: VdW 16, Williams 15, Watson 22, Adams 16, Daly 9. The massive outlier was LRZ, who attempted 37. Did everyone focus their attacks down his wing because he looks about 12?

[robmatic]

It is an easy trope to follow. Duhan isn't a natural defender and relies on his size and pace a lot, which is fine as plenty do so. It is fair to say he isn't the best or most natural defender out there but massively unfair to call him a liability.

As I’ve just posted on the Lions thread, over the 6N he missed the fewest tackles and had the highest tackle completion rate of all the wingers on the tour. It’s nonsense.

Ferris I assume was only referring to tackling and he was wrong but defence is about more than just making/not making tackles that are attempted. Tackling only tells part of the story about how good a defender someone is. It doesn't tell the story about whether a player was in position, or tackles that weren't even attempted because a player was out of position, or exploited by a kick for being out of position leading to losing field position.

I don't expect Duhan to play test matches on tour but it wont be because of missed tackles.

As wingers go, I don't think Duhan's tackling and positioning is too much of an issue. His bigger weakness is probably in fielding high balls and he's not much of a kicker.

I'd still put him in the test team because he offers so much going forward and he's a real weapon on set plays.

[Slick]

If they do get a pro women's team going it will cost peanuts, relatively. Actually I think the SRU putting a bit more focus on the women's game makes a lot of sense for them as an organisation. Realistically there's probably an upper bound on how many boys and men they will be able to get playing the game but you can theoretically double that with the women's game, so there's a lot of scope for the SRU to increase participation numbers and get more folk involved in clubs etc which is a big part of what they should be about and probably what they need to do long-term to remain relevant.

Womans rugby is growing in this country. More clubs than ever are creating opportunities for girls and ladies to play the game. The key thing is going to be timing and location.

Yes, sure, and I’m a big supporter of women’s rugby. But with very limited resources it should go towards the main driver of rugby, particularly financially, and that is undoubtedly the men’s game

[Slick]

Lineen wasn't responsible for the relegation from the u20 world cup. I think it was Carl Hogg or Bryan Redpath.

Italy for the last 3 or 4 years have just been better than us at under20s level. That has to be close to the top of concerns for Jim Mallinder. If Italy's youth development is better than ours. Oh dear!

I also can't speak for Italy but Ireland and England's under20s are all academy aligned so surely will have had some pretty good rugby exposure all year. I think we have 9 in the whole squad who are stage 3 or English academy aligned. The lack of rugby these guys have played means they have no chance of doing well.

This always comes back to only having 2 pro teams, these young guys need game time. I do think Super6 will help when it gets going, but nothing like 3rd pro team.

I know this may be controversial, but hearing Dodson talk about the possibility of a pro women’s team made me wonder if that’s really where our limited resources should be going

If they do get a pro women's team going it will cost peanuts, relatively. Actually I think the SRU putting a bit more focus on the women's game makes a lot of sense for them as an organisation. Realistically there's probably an upper bound on how many boys and men they will be able to get playing the game but you can theoretically double that with the women's game, so there's a lot of scope for the SRU to increase participation numbers and get more folk involved in clubs etc which is a big part of what they should be about and probably what they need to do long-term to remain relevant.

Undoubtedly they should be promoting women’s rugby and helping clubs to get teams going. But spending money on a pro team makes no sense to me at this stage

[KingBlairhorn]

I don’t mind people writing articles or giving opinions that Duhan is a poor defender, as long as they back that up with evidence for their opinion and apply the same logic/standard to the competitors to measure if they are objectively better or worse at the same skill/attribute. This is why so many were frustrated by the chat about Watson’s size; it was an argument applied without looking at evidence (I.e. how he plays despite his size) AND without looking at the (similar) size of his contemporaries both on tour, not on tour and with South Africa.

If a pundit cannot apply their logic consistently they are not a pundit, they are simply an opinionated fan. That is Ferris.