Is this fan racist ?

[New guy]

It's not the same thing. Though given his position, it would be nice if he actually took the time to learn how to say them.

Agreed. However it's not racist (or xenophobic), just ignorant in my opinion. Same applies to Carol or whatever her name is.

She said it from a position of ignorance, but I believe it's casual racism. Getting the guys name wrong because it's tough to say is one thing. Making a joke about it being hard for her to say, at his expense, rather than her own, is casual racism.

I imagine she'd have made the same joke about Tkhilaishvili or Harinordoquy though. Which is why I dont see this as a race thing.

[Sandstorm]

It's casual racism and she should be roasted for it. Using "lol" doesn't work any more.

[Woddy]

It's casual racism but more likely born out of rank stupidity rather than any genuine racist intent. If she'd make the same remark when Leicester signed Mamukashvili, would it have gone unnoticed?

We all have a good laugh when Jiffy butchers a french name. But thats ok because they were white I suppose.

Is there a history of Georgian name erasure under colonial rule we should be aware of or are you comparing dragon fruit to cherries?

I think he's pointing out how racism and/or cultural ignorance does not need to span different skin colours either to exist or to offend. Do you know how Georgians or the French feel when their names are mispronounced? I don't think it is apples and oranges unless you want it to be.

Apparently Azpilicueta was nicknamed Dave when he turned up at Chelsea as few people could say his name easily (and maybe an Only Fools reference). I thought that was quite funny, but he didn't like it and thought it disrespectful, so they quite rightly stopped after a while.

[Raggs]

Agreed. However it's not racist (or xenophobic), just ignorant in my opinion. Same applies to Carol or whatever her name is.

She said it from a position of ignorance, but I believe it's casual racism. Getting the guys name wrong because it's tough to say is one thing. Making a joke about it being hard for her to say, at his expense, rather than her own, is casual racism.

I imagine she'd have made the same joke about Tkhilaishvili or Harinordoquy though. Which is why I dont see this as a race thing.

I think you're breaking into semantics rather than actually providing an argument here. Are you saying that calling a French man a cheese eating surrender monkey isn't racist, just because we're both Caucasian? Hitler wasn't racist towards most the Jews, since the majority that he killed were Ashkenazi and therefore also white?

[New guy]

She said it from a position of ignorance, but I believe it's casual racism. Getting the guys name wrong because it's tough to say is one thing. Making a joke about it being hard for her to say, at his expense, rather than her own, is casual racism.

I imagine she'd have made the same joke about Tkhilaishvili or Harinordoquy though. Which is why I dont see this as a race thing.

I think you're breaking into semantics rather than actually providing an argument here. Are you saying that calling a French man a cheese eating surrender monkey isn't racist, just because we're both Caucasian? Hitler wasn't racist towards most the Jews, since the majority that he killed were Ashkenazi and therefore also white?

I mean, calling a French person a surrender monkey would be xenophobic not racist.

I think we're digressing somewhat.

[Torquemada 1420]

There are degrees of racism, and casual racism like this can be emboldening to more serious racists. It shows that racism is acceptable, when it really shouldn't be.

I was the moderate middle grounders a few years ago, saying that really all lives matter etc etc, and I'm coming to realise that it's not the right stance to have.

If you really believe that there's moderate middle grounders that are going to become more racist because Nadolo picks up this womans casual racism and berates it, then I think you're either mistaken on their changing attitudes, or on their original position.

1) Serious racists are serious racists. You aren't going to impact them any more by focusing on peripheral sh*t like this than you are to get reckless drivers to behave by pinging minor offenders for
doing 31mph in a 30 zone. and publishing them on an offenders list.

2) If the middle grounders are all racists, the battle is already lost FFS. They are the ones who don't condone racism but are also unlikely to take an active stance against it (they prefer a quiet life), and even less so if they feel relatively trivial injustices are continually being rammed down their throats by the virtue signallers.

So, if you now believe that all lives don't really matter after all, might we have your pecking order?

[Torquemada 1420]

I imagine she'd have made the same joke about Tkhilaishvili or Harinordoquy though. Which is why I dont see this as a race thing.

Some posters here regularly posted calling him Hairy Donkey. I expect them all to receive bans.

As I keep repeating, what is key: it's not what is said but the intent and, sometimes, the context. Look. We don't know what her intent was. In terms of context, it wasn't very clever because it could
easily be seen as inappropriate (especially now).

It certainly was not worth posting about as an incident in its own right.

[sockwithaticket]

We all have a good laugh when Jiffy butchers a french name. But thats ok because they were white I suppose.

Is there a history of Georgian name erasure under colonial rule we should be aware of or are you comparing dragon fruit to cherries?

I think he's pointing out how racism and/or cultural ignorance does not need to span different skin colours either to exist or to offend. Do you know how Georgians or the French feel when their names are mispronounced? I don't think it is apples and oranges unless you want it to be.

Apparently Azpilicueta was nicknamed Dave when he turned up at Chelsea as few people could say his name easily (and maybe an Only Fools reference). I thought that was quite funny, but he didn't like it and thought it disrespectful, so they quite rightly stopped after a while.

It doesn't need to, but when the group in question has a history of its members feeling they have to Anglicise their names in order to progress under colonial rule it takes on a different tone. It is an element that cannot be removed from the discussion and with that in mind comparing the mispronunciation of names of nationalities never subjected to our rule feels more than a little like trying to downplay or rationalise a complaint. Which is in and of itself a complaint BAME people make quite regularly, that when they point something out those around them minimise it.

A Sri Lankan friend of mine goes by his middle name of Eric and I know he resents it, but he finds dealing with that easier than constant mispronunciation and correcting people. He also resents that he has such a middle name, everyone in his family has an Anglicised middle name they can use and had done for as far back as he can trace because it was easier to get on under British rule if you had a name you could put on a form that was recognisable to the colonial admin staff.

With your example, I think that's awful from the Chelsea players. Unless given permission to by the person whose name it is to use something else, don't presume to make any changes. This is especially acute when there's something else at play like colonial legacy.

[Raggs]

There are degrees of racism, and casual racism like this can be emboldening to more serious racists. It shows that racism is acceptable, when it really shouldn't be.

I was the moderate middle grounders a few years ago, saying that really all lives matter etc etc, and I'm coming to realise that it's not the right stance to have.

If you really believe that there's moderate middle grounders that are going to become more racist because Nadolo picks up this womans casual racism and berates it, then I think you're either mistaken on their changing attitudes, or on their original position.

1) Serious racists are serious racists. You aren't going to impact them any more by focusing on peripheral sh*t like this than you are to get reckless drivers to behave by pinging minor offenders for
doing 31mph in a 30 zone. and publishing them on an offenders list.

2) If the middle grounders are all racists, the battle is already lost FFS. They are the ones who don't condone racism but are also unlikely to take an active stance against it (they prefer a quiet life), and even less so if they feel relatively trivial injustices are continually being rammed down their throats by the virtue signallers.

So, if you now believe that all lives don't really matter after all, might we have your pecking order?

You've caught me. I don't believe all lives matter!

Or perhaps I've realised that being one of the people replying "All lives matter." to a Black Lives Matter statement, is the wrong way of looking at that statement.

[Torquemada 1420]

Is there a history of Georgian name erasure under colonial rule we should be aware of or are you comparing dragon fruit to cherries?

A Sri Lankan friend of mine goes by his middle name of Eric and I know he resents it, but he finds dealing with that easier than constant mispronunciation and correcting people. He also resents that he has such a middle name, everyone in his family has an Anglicised middle name they can use and had done for as far back as he can trace because it was easier to get on under British rule if you had a name you could put on a form that was recognisable to the colonial admin staff.

I can pronounce Ceylonese names correctly (usually it's not the pronunciation anyway but that they are so long) but unlike my mother (who worked for the Polish Embassy and so had an advantage), I'm shit at pronouncing Zbdgwhshhdjrndsjshiew. So, I use Zig or Ziggy. Presumably then I'm a selective racist: I like Lankans but hate Poles.

Upshot is it's a f**king name and if it's hard to pronounce correctly, you either put up with people fumbling or you adopt an easier version. Cpt Mainwaring or John Le Mesurier anyone?

[Torquemada 1420]

You've caught me. I don't believe all lives matter!

Or perhaps I've realised that being one of the people replying "All lives matter." to a Black Lives Matter statement, is the wrong way of looking at that statement.

Ah. So now you've added a context rather than posing it as a stance.

[Raggs]

It's not whether or not you can pronounce the name that makes you racist.

[sockwithaticket]

Is there a history of Georgian name erasure under colonial rule we should be aware of or are you comparing dragon fruit to cherries?

A Sri Lankan friend of mine goes by his middle name of Eric and I know he resents it, but he finds dealing with that easier than constant mispronunciation and correcting people. He also resents that he has such a middle name, everyone in his family has an Anglicised middle name they can use and had done for as far back as he can trace because it was easier to get on under British rule if you had a name you could put on a form that was recognisable to the colonial admin staff.

I can pronounce Ceylonese names correctly (usually it's not the pronunciation anyway but that they are so long) but unlike my mother (who worked for the Polish Embassy and so had an advantage), I'm shit at pronouncing Zbdgwhshhdjrndsjshiew. So, I use Zig or Ziggy. Presumably then I'm a selective racist: I like Lankans but hate Poles.

Upshot is it's a f**king name and if it's hard to pronounce correctly, you either put up with people fumbling or you adopt an easier version. Cpt Mainwaring or John Le Mesurier anyone?

No, that's not what was argued. Try again.

Possibly not as you're such a relentless curmudgeon, but I suspect you might have a little bit more empathy for people valuing their names and correct pronunciation if you'd been subject to colonial rule and experienced partial cultural erasure.

[sturginho]

JHC, has Nadolo got nothing better to do with his time?

If he feels insulted he should just shut up about it?

Grow a spine would be my suggestion. All this fringe whining coupled with the clamouring of virtue signallers actually undermines the efforts against the aspects of racism that have serious repercussions.
It chisels away at the support from the moderate, middle grounders as more of them simply become sick and tired of the cry baby, attention seekers.

Wake up call. There are degrees of racism. And focusing on this p*ss weak end of it is counter productive.

I love the fact that Nadolo has to think about the wider picture of the fight against racism and what the "moderate, middle grounders" think when responding on an insult aimed directly at him

[Glaston]

So if you cant pronounce Chomondeley or Featherstonehaugh or even the simple one of St. John, you are a racist cnut?






As regards this tweet, I took it in the vein of my original thinking --- from the list of new signings, why have Leicester signed so few English qualifiers?

[Raggs]

So if you cant pronounce Chomondeley or Featherstonehaugh or even the simple one of St. John, you are a racist cnut?






As regards this tweet, I took it in the vein of my original thinking --- from the list of new signings, why have Leicester signed so few English qualifiers?

You'll be able to point out where someone has said that here right...

[Torquemada 1420]

Possibly not as you're such a relentless curmudgeon, but I suspect you might have a little bit more empathy for people valuing their names and correct pronunciation if you'd been subject to colonial rule and experienced partial cultural erasure.

I do my utmost best to get the pronunciations correct:
- it's embarrassing when wrong
- I don't like anyone to think I'm less than learned worldywise!

But it's all utterly irrelevant because outside of wilful mispronunciation (Hairy Donkey), the real world position is people will get names wrong. Even a 4 letter one like Ikea. I know hardly anyone who
can deal with Cantonese; we are simply not equipped to deal with the variances in intonation (and good luck with San/Khoisan).

Whether both parties value or not won't fix a physical improbability. And that's where some give and take is required. No point Mr Click Click Derk getting offended at someone incapable of getting it right.

[Yeeb]

It's not whether or not you can pronounce the name that makes you racist.

And what their dogs name is, don’t forget that

[Torquemada 1420]

I love the fact that Nadolo has to think about the wider picture of the fight against racism and what the "moderate, middle grounders" think when responding on an insult aimed directly at him

From where I'm sitting, the perp is just some nobody who made an ill judged comment (isn't that what Twatter etc are there to facilitate anyway?) whereas Nadolo just wasted a royal flush against a sole high card.

[Woddy]

Is there a history of Georgian name erasure under colonial rule we should be aware of or are you comparing dragon fruit to cherries?

I think he's pointing out how racism and/or cultural ignorance does not need to span different skin colours either to exist or to offend. Do you know how Georgians or the French feel when their names are mispronounced? I don't think it is apples and oranges unless you want it to be.

Apparently Azpilicueta was nicknamed Dave when he turned up at Chelsea as few people could say his name easily (and maybe an Only Fools reference). I thought that was quite funny, but he didn't like it and thought it disrespectful, so they quite rightly stopped after a while.

It doesn't need to, but when the group in question has a history of its members feeling they have to Anglicise their names in order to progress under colonial rule it takes on a different tone. It is an element that cannot be removed from the discussion and with that in mind comparing the mispronunciation of names of nationalities never subjected to our rule feels more than a little like trying to downplay or rationalise a complaint. Which is in and of itself a complaint BAME people make quite regularly, that when they point something out those around them minimise it.

A Sri Lankan friend of mine goes by his middle name of Eric and I know he resents it, but he finds dealing with that easier than constant mispronunciation and correcting people. He also resents that he has such a middle name, everyone in his family has an Anglicised middle name they can use and had done for as far back as he can trace because it was easier to get on under British rule if you had a name you could put on a form that was recognisable to the colonial admin staff.

With your example, I think that's awful from the Chelsea players. Unless given permission to by the person whose name it is to use something else, don't presume to make any changes. This is especially acute when there's something else at play like colonial legacy.

Is there such a history in Fiji, in any meaningful sense? I'd not heard of it until a poster above mentioned one of Nathan Hughes's forebears choosing to do that. Looking at Fiji teamsheet does not suggest any of their families have felt the same pressure, thankfully. Certainly I doubt Carole was aware of that history, nor should she be expected to (if it is true anyway). As I said earlier, her comment can easily be classified as casual racism but it is almost certainly not pejorative and imo it would be wilfully false to interpret it that way.

In my experience, people in England have learnt how to say Fijian names properly with sincere interest (Caucaunibuca etc). I doubt Nadolo himself has experienced any issue with it anyway, as his name transfers easily to English anyway. I agree that minimising complaints purely based on race is bad; but so is traducing someone's intentions behind a statement based on their race - as both you and Nadolo do with Carole. And I say that as someone who is sensitive to being named wrongly or pejoratively, as I explained above.

It was for that reason I mentioned the "Dave" story as it demonstrates normal and reasonable human behaviours (in my view): it was meant as a funny joke and was stopped when they realised he didn't find it funny. From what you say, presumably you never make up a nickname for anyone without first asking their permission - which I would find unbelievable. Incidentally, what colonial legacy should Azpilicueta feel sensitive about in England?

and I have a Sri Lankan friend who chose in his 20s to insist on using his Sri Lankan name rather than the Anglicised version everyone had used most of the time until then (at his instigation to avoid correcting etc). Which is great, and entirely his choice of course. It does not mean that people had previously been nasty or unconscionably lazy with him. Most people refuse to use my own (common) firstname because it's too long. It can annoy me as I don't like the shortened version.

[Zig]

I guarantee most of you couldn't pronounce my name or would butcher it to the point it would annoy me.

I usually go by a nickname to avoid that situation. In Thailand my name can be mispronounced as a vulgar term.

I don't think it's racist if someone can't say my name correctly but they're a fucking cunt to say I shouldn't be in the country because they can't.

[assfly]

I don't think it's racist if someone can't say my name correctly but they're a fucking cunt to say I shouldn't be in the country because they can't.

Then it's also up to you do decide the context in which it's said.

[FujiKiwi]

I think Nadolo is accurate in describing the comment as "casual" racism. In saying so, he's giving a built-in acknowledgment that it wasn't a deliberately hateful comment.

I think we use the word "racist" a bit too freely, on these boreds, for the purposes of actually getting anywhere in a discussion.

If the OP had been phrased, "Should this fan have tweeted this?" we probably all would have said "No" and not had any argument amongst ourselves.

[ASMO]

I think Nadolo is accurate in describing the comment as "casual" racism. In saying so, he's giving a built-in acknowledgment that it wasn't a deliberately hateful comment.

I think we use the word "racist" a bit too freely, on these boreds, for the purposes of actually getting anywhere in a discussion.

If the OP had been phrased, "Should this fan have tweeted this?" we probably all would have said "No" and not had any argument amongst ourselves.

[Akkerman]

If the OP had been phrased, "Should this fan have tweeted this?" we probably all would have said "No" and not had any argument amongst ourselves.

yes but where's the fun in that

[FujiKiwi]

If the OP had been phrased, "Should this fan have tweeted this?" we probably all would have said "No" and not had any argument amongst ourselves.

yes but where's the fun in that

Yeah. It wasn't a shot at you mate. Just pointing out that we're probably all close to being on the same page when it counts.

[Akkerman]

absolutely

i actually thought there were some pretty good points made throughout the thread, interesting to read

personally i didn't see much wrong with the tweet, my view is somewhat more nuanced now

[Torquemada 1420]

I think Nadolo is accurate in describing the comment as "casual" racism. In saying so, he's giving a built-in acknowledgment that it wasn't a deliberately hateful comment.

I think we use the word "racist" a bit too freely, on these boreds, for the purposes of actually getting anywhere in a discussion.

If the OP had been phrased, "Should this fan have tweeted this?" we probably all would have said "No" and not had any argument amongst ourselves.

Yes. Agree. The term "racist" is bandied around so much (esp here by virtue signallers like JM), that its severity is being diminished with each use.

[FujiKiwi]

I think Nadolo is accurate in describing the comment as "casual" racism. In saying so, he's giving a built-in acknowledgment that it wasn't a deliberately hateful comment.

I think we use the word "racist" a bit too freely, on these boreds, for the purposes of actually getting anywhere in a discussion.

If the OP had been phrased, "Should this fan have tweeted this?" we probably all would have said "No" and not had any argument amongst ourselves.

Yes. Agree. The term "racist" is bandied around so much (esp here by virtue signallers like JM), that its severity is being diminished with each use.

The only word bandied around more than "racist" is "virtue signaller", which is —with the utmost respect—an expression only complete wankers use.

[Torquemada 1420]

I think Nadolo is accurate in describing the comment as "casual" racism. In saying so, he's giving a built-in acknowledgment that it wasn't a deliberately hateful comment.

I think we use the word "racist" a bit too freely, on these boreds, for the purposes of actually getting anywhere in a discussion.

If the OP had been phrased, "Should this fan have tweeted this?" we probably all would have said "No" and not had any argument amongst ourselves.

Yes. Agree. The term "racist" is bandied around so much (esp here by virtue signallers like JM), that its severity is being diminished with each use.

The only word bandied around more than "racist" is "virtue signaller", which is —with the utmost respect—an expression only complete wankers use.

Well
1) That's clearly untrue.
2) Your ability to count is almost as abject as your ability to reason or to debate.

[FujiKiwi]

1) That's clearly untrue.
2) Your ability to count is almost as abject as your ability to reason or to debate.

1) OK. Maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic.
2) "virtue signaller" is a word used by wankers who want to be cunts to people and don't want to be called on it.

[Torquemada 1420]

1) That's clearly untrue.
2) Your ability to count is almost as abject as your ability to reason or to debate.

1) OK. Maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic.
2) "virtue signaller" is a word used by wankers who want to be cunts to people and don't want to be called on it.

Your ability to count is almost as abject as your ability to reason or to debate.

[Plato’sCave]

I think Nadolo is accurate in describing the comment as "casual" racism. In saying so, he's giving a built-in acknowledgment that it wasn't a deliberately hateful comment.

I think we use the word "racist" a bit too freely, on these boreds, for the purposes of actually getting anywhere in a discussion.

If the OP had been phrased, "Should this fan have tweeted this?" we probably all would have said "No" and not had any argument amongst ourselves.

Yes. Agree. The term "racist" is bandied around so much (esp here by virtue signallers like JM), that its severity is being diminished with each use.

The only word bandied around more than "racist" is "virtue signaller", which is —with the utmost respect—an expression only complete wankers use.

Both of these words/phrases have been thrown around with so much abandon than I wouldn’t raise an eyebrow if I was accused of either. When all nuance vanishes, meanings become diluted. I’d be non-plussed to be called either.

[JM2K6]

I think Nadolo is accurate in describing the comment as "casual" racism. In saying so, he's giving a built-in acknowledgment that it wasn't a deliberately hateful comment.

I think we use the word "racist" a bit too freely, on these boreds, for the purposes of actually getting anywhere in a discussion.

If the OP had been phrased, "Should this fan have tweeted this?" we probably all would have said "No" and not had any argument amongst ourselves.

Yes. Agree. The term "racist" is bandied around so much (esp here by virtue signallers like JM), that its severity is being diminished with each use.

You were whining about me being a "virtue signaller" on here before I'd even joined this board. You've spent pages getting wildly bent out of shape over not really understanding what's meant by the term "casual racism", which is hilarious, and my sole contribution was to say fair play to Nadolo. Whatever the fuck you think virtual signalling is, you're guilty of essentially the same behaviour. You're running up the flag to show everyone just how "anti-PC" you are now. Bravo, Torq, bravo.

I realised a long time ago that you get hysterical over this stuff very easily, which is why I've not bothered to try and argue with you. Frankly, I'm just thrilled you've stopped referring to the Pakistani cricket team as "Pakis".

[Torquemada 1420]

You were whining about me being a "virtue signaller" on here before I'd even joined this board. You've spent pages getting wildly bent out of shape over not really understanding what's meant by the term "casual racism", which is hilarious, and my sole contribution was to say fair play to Nadolo. Whatever the fuck you think virtual signalling is, you're guilty of essentially the same behaviour. You're running up the flag to show everyone just how "anti-PC" you are now. Bravo, Torq, bravo.

I realised a long time ago that you get hysterical over this stuff very easily, which is why I've not bothered to try and argue with you. Frankly, I'm just thrilled you've stopped referring to the Pakistani cricket team as "Pakis".

That's because you are (by volume on the topic) the worst culprit on PR for this particular behaviour. A long time ago you say? I spent the best part of 2 decades on PR largely ignoring the efforts of you and others falling over one another
chasing beatification in this space. Your last comment exemplifies why you should steer clear of this subject entirely.

[JM2K6]

You were whining about me being a "virtue signaller" on here before I'd even joined this board. You've spent pages getting wildly bent out of shape over not really understanding what's meant by the term "casual racism", which is hilarious, and my sole contribution was to say fair play to Nadolo. Whatever the fuck you think virtual signalling is, you're guilty of essentially the same behaviour. You're running up the flag to show everyone just how "anti-PC" you are now. Bravo, Torq, bravo.

I realised a long time ago that you get hysterical over this stuff very easily, which is why I've not bothered to try and argue with you. Frankly, I'm just thrilled you've stopped referring to the Pakistani cricket team as "Pakis".

That's because you are (by volume on the topic) the worst culprit on PR for this particular behaviour. A long time ago you say? I spent the best part of 2 decades on PR largely ignoring the efforts of you and others falling over one another
chasing beatification in this space. Your last comment exemplifies why you should steer clear of this subject entirely.

Why? Do you disagree that you kept doing it?

The right-wingers insistence that any acknowledgement of racism / sexism / homophobia / etc beyond the blatant abuse is "virtue signalling" is really fucking stupid. I'm never going to change your mind on it so there's no point trying to debate it with you. When I want your opinion on something, I'll just ask yeeb.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I don't discount the target of the intended joke was the person writing it or the group known to author of the comment around finding some names more difficult to pronounce, which is to say it could have been an attempt at self-deprecation rather than casual racism, even if it was casual racism it's hardly the worst, jokes about Welsh or Irish pronunciations/spellings are for instance hardly unusual in our society but I've also not the slightest problem with Nadolo calling it out. A decent chance for a bit of learning and reflection

[Plato’sCave]

You were whining about me being a "virtue signaller" on here before I'd even joined this board. You've spent pages getting wildly bent out of shape over not really understanding what's meant by the term "casual racism", which is hilarious, and my sole contribution was to say fair play to Nadolo. Whatever the fuck you think virtual signalling is, you're guilty of essentially the same behaviour. You're running up the flag to show everyone just how "anti-PC" you are now. Bravo, Torq, bravo.

I realised a long time ago that you get hysterical over this stuff very easily, which is why I've not bothered to try and argue with you. Frankly, I'm just thrilled you've stopped referring to the Pakistani cricket team as "Pakis".

That's because you are (by volume on the topic) the worst culprit on PR for this particular behaviour. A long time ago you say? I spent the best part of 2 decades on PR largely ignoring the efforts of you and others falling over one another
chasing beatification in this space. Your last comment exemplifies why you should steer clear of this subject entirely.

Why? Do you disagree that you kept doing it?

The right-wingers insistence that any acknowledgement of racism / sexism / homophobia / etc beyond the blatant abuse is "virtue signalling" is really fucking stupid. I'm never going to change your mind on it so there's no point trying to debate it with you. When I want your opinion on something, I'll just ask yeeb.

Calling anything virtue signalling is a poor rebuke but calling out virtue signalling where no virtue exists and all that remains is a power play under the guise of virtue should be called out. There is nuance when labelling and none when name calling. Both sides do it. The current weapons are the name calling of virtue signaller or commie from the one side, and racist or nazi from the other. As far as I’m concerned both sides can be guilty and innocent of all four because there’s always more variation within a demographic than between opposing demographics.

[JM2K6]

That's because you are (by volume on the topic) the worst culprit on PR for this particular behaviour. A long time ago you say? I spent the best part of 2 decades on PR largely ignoring the efforts of you and others falling over one another
chasing beatification in this space. Your last comment exemplifies why you should steer clear of this subject entirely.

Why? Do you disagree that you kept doing it?

The right-wingers insistence that any acknowledgement of racism / sexism / homophobia / etc beyond the blatant abuse is "virtue signalling" is really fucking stupid. I'm never going to change your mind on it so there's no point trying to debate it with you. When I want your opinion on something, I'll just ask yeeb.

Calling anything virtue signalling is a poor rebuke but calling out virtue signalling where no virtue exists and all that remains is a power play under the guise of virtue should be called out. There is nuance when labelling and none when name calling. Both sides do it. The current weapons are the name calling of virtue signaller or commie from the one side, and racist or nazi from the other. As far as I’m concerned both sides can be guilty and innocent of all four because there’s always more variation within a demographic than between opposing demographics.

It is impossible to discuss racism without being able to call things racist.

[Yeeb]

You were whining about me being a "virtue signaller" on here before I'd even joined this board. You've spent pages getting wildly bent out of shape over not really understanding what's meant by the term "casual racism", which is hilarious, and my sole contribution was to say fair play to Nadolo. Whatever the fuck you think virtual signalling is, you're guilty of essentially the same behaviour. You're running up the flag to show everyone just how "anti-PC" you are now. Bravo, Torq, bravo.

I realised a long time ago that you get hysterical over this stuff very easily, which is why I've not bothered to try and argue with you. Frankly, I'm just thrilled you've stopped referring to the Pakistani cricket team as "Pakis".

That's because you are (by volume on the topic) the worst culprit on PR for this particular behaviour. A long time ago you say? I spent the best part of 2 decades on PR largely ignoring the efforts of you and others falling over one another
chasing beatification in this space. Your last comment exemplifies why you should steer clear of this subject entirely.

Why? Do you disagree that you kept doing it?

The right-wingers insistence that any acknowledgement of racism / sexism / homophobia / etc beyond the blatant abuse is "virtue signalling" is really fucking stupid. I'm never going to change your mind on it so there's no point trying to debate it with you. When I want your opinion on something, I'll just ask yeeb.

Lolz, you such a sad little angry man, you need to get yourself a wife and settle down with a emptier nutsack - you don’t seem to ever get tired of trying to win everything on the internet. You are the yin to bimbo & bills yang, only angier.

Torq isn’t full honky so his views on racism are more valid than yours.