Why do you think Watson will miss out? Curry was decent but nothing more
The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Thought Curry carried and tackled well. Linked play when needed and fronted up pretty well.
Having that in the bank v the pack they will be playing a week on Saturday will be at the forefront on the selectors minds.
Tonight was a warm up game but I think good and bad performances will count for more than previous warm up games v lower level players.
I don't think the Lions can go wrong at 7 or back 3. Wish I could say the same elsewhere.
Last edited by Big D on Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yup, nothing to disagree with there. I just felt throughout the game that Mish would have made a difference.Big D wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:26 pmThought Curry carried and tackled well. Linked play when needed and fronted up pretty well.
Having that in the bank v the pack they will be playing a week on Saturday will be at the forefront on the selectors minds.
Tonight was a warm up game but I think good and bad performances will count for more than precious warm up games v lower level players.
I don't think the Lions can go wrong at 7 or back 3. Wish I could say the same elsewhere.
Still think we might have 5 or 6 starters. Definitely 3 or 4
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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Curry seems to give away a lot of pens. Mish doesn't.
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Curry seems to give away a lot of pens. Mish doesn't.
Curry has conceded one on tour so far. Tbh the fact both 7s have given away one between them probably means they aren't playing close enough to the edge
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Fairy muff. Not a huge amount of game time for either. SA gave away a load of pens. In the tests that will be punished
Pretty impressed with the Jocks so far:
At very least in contention for the test spot, should be in the 23:
Sutherland
Watson
Price
Harris
IrnDu
Hogg (although we've not seen much of him on tour, we'll see how he goes on Sat)
Would be slightly surprised if they're in the 23 but by no means have they had shockers:
Fagerson
Russell
No one has played themselves out of a spot. I just hope this tour acts as a confidence boost, I think our team still don't quite believe in themselves.
At very least in contention for the test spot, should be in the 23:
Sutherland
Watson
Price
Harris
IrnDu
Hogg (although we've not seen much of him on tour, we'll see how he goes on Sat)
Would be slightly surprised if they're in the 23 but by no means have they had shockers:
Fagerson
Russell
No one has played themselves out of a spot. I just hope this tour acts as a confidence boost, I think our team still don't quite believe in themselves.
This is my hope. I agree that our players still lack self-belief and think that the other teams have better players. Previous Lions tours have done a great deal to dispel that as myth.C T wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:50 am Pretty impressed with the Jocks so far:
At very least in contention for the test spot, should be in the 23:
Sutherland
Watson
Price
Harris
IrnDu
Hogg (although we've not seen much of him on tour, we'll see how he goes on Sat)
Would be slightly surprised if they're in the 23 but by no means have they had shockers:
Fagerson
Russell
No one has played themselves out of a spot. I just hope this tour acts as a confidence boost, I think our team still don't quite believe in themselves.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
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Murray McCallum has signed for Glasgow. Another surprising one for Edinburgh with Nel aging and Berghan now at Glasgow. De Bruin is presumably first choice with Atalifo and Grahamslaw fighting for the bench. There must be someone else coming in you would think as 3 tight heads, 1 of whom is very green, isn’t enough.
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Christ, despite naming four props I seem to have forgotten about one (Nel) half way through my post! I still think depth is potentially an issue for Edinburgh but they’ll probably get through this season okay, especially as you would imagine international commitments for the group will be low.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:50 am Murray McCallum has signed for Glasgow. Another surprising one for Edinburgh with Nel aging and Berghan now at Glasgow. De Bruin is presumably first choice with Atalifo and Grahamslaw fighting for the bench. There must be someone else coming in you would think as 3 tight heads, 1 of whom is very green, isn’t enough.
I really hope when Nel eventually retires they find a way to retain his experience (scrum coach role perhaps).
I think WP still has some mileage in him for at least this season. He's not as dynamic around the park as he used to be, but you can still rely on him to do some damage in the scrum.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:50 am Murray McCallum has signed for Glasgow. Another surprising one for Edinburgh with Nel aging and Berghan now at Glasgow. De Bruin is presumably first choice with Atalifo and Grahamslaw fighting for the bench. There must be someone else coming in you would think as 3 tight heads, 1 of whom is very green, isn’t enough.
Think I remember seeing him go the full 80 last season. Jogging to line outs, first one there. Putting some of the youth to shame.robmatic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:58 amI think WP still has some mileage in him for at least this season. He's not as dynamic around the park as he used to be, but you can still rely on him to do some damage in the scrum.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:50 am Murray McCallum has signed for Glasgow. Another surprising one for Edinburgh with Nel aging and Berghan now at Glasgow. De Bruin is presumably first choice with Atalifo and Grahamslaw fighting for the bench. There must be someone else coming in you would think as 3 tight heads, 1 of whom is very green, isn’t enough.
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Grahamslaw is a loosehead. Gamble is the young TH so you have Nel, De Bruin (who played LH for Leicester last season) Atalifo and Gamble. Loosehead Schoeman, Venter, Grahamslaw with maybe Gunn or Lamberton.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:50 am Murray McCallum has signed for Glasgow. Another surprising one for Edinburgh with Nel aging and Berghan now at Glasgow. De Bruin is presumably first choice with Atalifo and Grahamslaw fighting for the bench. There must be someone else coming in you would think as 3 tight heads, 1 of whom is very green, isn’t enough.
Loosehead side is probably where we are arguably a bit short. Doesn't take much before we are down to Grahamslaw and he's still pretty young.I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:25 pmGrahamslaw is a loosehead. Gamble is the young TH so you have Nel, De Bruin (who played LH for Leicester last season) Atalifo and Gamble. Loosehead Schoeman, Venter, Grahamslaw with maybe Gunn or Lamberton.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:50 am Murray McCallum has signed for Glasgow. Another surprising one for Edinburgh with Nel aging and Berghan now at Glasgow. De Bruin is presumably first choice with Atalifo and Grahamslaw fighting for the bench. There must be someone else coming in you would think as 3 tight heads, 1 of whom is very green, isn’t enough.
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So the depth is
Tighthead: Nel, Atalifo, Gamble
Loosehead: Schoeman, Venter, Grahamslaw
With De Bruin potentially covering both sides, but primarily tighthead.
It still looks a little weak, potentially on both sides. It will be interesting to see how much teams can survive with smaller squads without the overlap of international and club weekends.
Tighthead: Nel, Atalifo, Gamble
Loosehead: Schoeman, Venter, Grahamslaw
With De Bruin potentially covering both sides, but primarily tighthead.
It still looks a little weak, potentially on both sides. It will be interesting to see how much teams can survive with smaller squads without the overlap of international and club weekends.
Soooo… First Test next week. Reckon we may be looking at decent Scottish representation.
Probably starting: DVDM, Price, Hogg
I reckon Duhan’s done enough to earn a start. Price has been the surprise package, but it seems generally agreed he has been the form 9 on tour. Hogg I think has always been inked in to start the first Test, although he hasn’t had that much game time. He might even end up captain.
Possibly starting: Sutherland, Harris, Watson
Sutherland and Harris have both shown up well, though it’s anyone’s guess whether they have done enough to get a starting berth. Suspect Sutherland may start on the bench. Harris could start, or equally not make the 23 at all. We all think Mish should be starting 7, and there’s every chance he will be, but Curry has played well too and it’s a toss-up between them.
No chance: Fagerson
He hasn’t done badly, he just hasn’t done as well as some of the other guys on the tour. His best chance was as a sub, but he won’t make the 23 now.
Injured: Russell
He must be raging. He’d have started today and instead he’s had to watch Smith steal his thunder. It’s possible he may get a chance in the later matches, but I really don’t want him to damage his Achilles further and face a really long spell out.
Probably starting: DVDM, Price, Hogg
I reckon Duhan’s done enough to earn a start. Price has been the surprise package, but it seems generally agreed he has been the form 9 on tour. Hogg I think has always been inked in to start the first Test, although he hasn’t had that much game time. He might even end up captain.
Possibly starting: Sutherland, Harris, Watson
Sutherland and Harris have both shown up well, though it’s anyone’s guess whether they have done enough to get a starting berth. Suspect Sutherland may start on the bench. Harris could start, or equally not make the 23 at all. We all think Mish should be starting 7, and there’s every chance he will be, but Curry has played well too and it’s a toss-up between them.
No chance: Fagerson
He hasn’t done badly, he just hasn’t done as well as some of the other guys on the tour. His best chance was as a sub, but he won’t make the 23 now.
Injured: Russell
He must be raging. He’d have started today and instead he’s had to watch Smith steal his thunder. It’s possible he may get a chance in the later matches, but I really don’t want him to damage his Achilles further and face a really long spell out.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
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Aye, would agree with that. Mish would let nobody down but can't see him starting. Back 3 is a lottery but hope they find a way to get the ball to themYr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:54 pm Soooo… First Test next week. Reckon we may be looking at decent Scottish representation.
Probably starting: DVDM, Price, Hogg
I reckon Duhan’s done enough to earn a start. Price has been the surprise package, but it seems generally agreed he has been the form 9 on tour. Hogg I think has always been inked in to start the first Test, although he hasn’t had that much game time. He might even end up captain.
Possibly starting: Sutherland, Harris, Watson
Sutherland and Harris have both shown up well, though it’s anyone’s guess whether they have done enough to get a starting berth. Suspect Sutherland may start on the bench. Harris could start, or equally not make the 23 at all. We all think Mish should be starting 7, and there’s every chance he will be, but Curry has played well too and it’s a toss-up between them.
No chance: Fagerson
He hasn’t done badly, he just hasn’t done as well as some of the other guys on the tour. His best chance was as a sub, but he won’t make the 23 now.
Injured: Russell
He must be raging. He’d have started today and instead he’s had to watch Smith steal his thunder. It’s possible he may get a chance in the later matches, but I really don’t want him to damage his Achilles further and face a really long spell out.
So I squares up, casual like.
It'll be an interesting one given that both Toonie & Tandy will at least be at the debate.And 1 guest wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:53 pmAye, would agree with that. Mish would let nobody down but can't see him starting. Back 3 is a lottery but hope they find a way to get the ball to themYr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:54 pm Soooo… First Test next week. Reckon we may be looking at decent Scottish representation.
Probably starting: DVDM, Price, Hogg
I reckon Duhan’s done enough to earn a start. Price has been the surprise package, but it seems generally agreed he has been the form 9 on tour. Hogg I think has always been inked in to start the first Test, although he hasn’t had that much game time. He might even end up captain.
Possibly starting: Sutherland, Harris, Watson
Sutherland and Harris have both shown up well, though it’s anyone’s guess whether they have done enough to get a starting berth. Suspect Sutherland may start on the bench. Harris could start, or equally not make the 23 at all. We all think Mish should be starting 7, and there’s every chance he will be, but Curry has played well too and it’s a toss-up between them.
No chance: Fagerson
He hasn’t done badly, he just hasn’t done as well as some of the other guys on the tour. His best chance was as a sub, but he won’t make the 23 now.
Injured: Russell
He must be raging. He’d have started today and instead he’s had to watch Smith steal his thunder. It’s possible he may get a chance in the later matches, but I really don’t want him to damage his Achilles further and face a really long spell out.
Gatland is a huge fan of Hogg, or at least he used to be. I recall when he was the Walsh coach him being asked which player from the other 6 nations teams he would take and his answer was Hogg. That was probably about 4/5 years ago.
A lot of these calls are very, very tight. Watson/Curry, Hogg/Williams. I wouldn't be surprises to see more 50/50's go the way of the jocks than we're used too. Maybe even one might go the way of the jocks.
I'm hopeful that there will be a decent Scottish representation, if not in the 15 then at least in the 23.
Despite some media championing Williams I don’t think any of the 15’s have been stand out so I think Hogg will get the nod.
Also on Watson, again, despite some media bigging up Curry I think he has been the best 7 so far and can see him starting with Curry on the bench.
I’m a big fan of Daley and they seem to be giving him every chance they can to really hit form, but he has been making quite a few mistakes and can see Harris getting the nod to start.
I think VDM might not make it though, particularly if Hogg starts. It will be between Williams and Watson for one of the wing spots
Forgot Price, but as I said earlier if the selection has anything to do with form then he is a shoo in. I think he was instructed to play in a very set way last night and came through it very well
Also on Watson, again, despite some media bigging up Curry I think he has been the best 7 so far and can see him starting with Curry on the bench.
I’m a big fan of Daley and they seem to be giving him every chance they can to really hit form, but he has been making quite a few mistakes and can see Harris getting the nod to start.
I think VDM might not make it though, particularly if Hogg starts. It will be between Williams and Watson for one of the wing spots
Forgot Price, but as I said earlier if the selection has anything to do with form then he is a shoo in. I think he was instructed to play in a very set way last night and came through it very well
Last edited by Slick on Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
He’s in good company tbf, Dayglo has none as well and Barnes has just HarrisBegbie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:16 amThats exactly the kind of shite you'd expect from that fud.robmatic wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:05 am Get a look at Dawson's XV. Not one Scot.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/57875384
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
Just saw that. What a bellend the man is.robmatic wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:05 am Get a look at Dawson's XV. Not one Scot.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/57875384
Hogg left out because he ‘hasn’t faced top class opposition’ but AWJ picked when he’s been out injured for most of the tour, and Curry in because ‘he has probably been inked in most of the year’. He acknowledges Price has been excellent, but picks Murray anyway, a decision he entirely fails to justify except by saying that he has ‘credit in the bank’.
Basically, if current form would result in a Scot I the team, it’s all about long term form and class. If long term form and class would, it’s all about form on the tour.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
One thing I'd bet my house on, the Lions selectors aren't going to give a monkey's what is written in the press back in the UK, they will select what they think is the team most fit to do the job.
There will be disappointed players and fans, it comes with the territory.
I personally had little argument against the number of Scots on previous tours, perhaps John Barclay can consider himself very unlucky, but there are few others.
The doesn't mean I've forgotten the decision to play Euan Murray as a dirt tracker, that came back to bite the Lions on the arse, big time, that was that Rowntree's doing.
There will be disappointed players and fans, it comes with the territory.
I personally had little argument against the number of Scots on previous tours, perhaps John Barclay can consider himself very unlucky, but there are few others.
The doesn't mean I've forgotten the decision to play Euan Murray as a dirt tracker, that came back to bite the Lions on the arse, big time, that was that Rowntree's doing.
Wales Online also managed to pick a side without a Scot in it. Williams at 15, on the grounds that Hogg has missed games due to isolation and that Exeter dropped him at the end of the season (what difference does that make?)
I’m fairly confident Gatland will start Hogg, but this is the decision I’m most hoping for to ram it up all of the pundits. I can accept Curry over Watson, even if I think Mish deserves it more, but most of all I want to see Hogg picked over Williams.
I’m fairly confident Gatland will start Hogg, but this is the decision I’m most hoping for to ram it up all of the pundits. I can accept Curry over Watson, even if I think Mish deserves it more, but most of all I want to see Hogg picked over Williams.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
Feel much the same, I'm desperate for Hogg to get the Lions test caps he deservesYr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:59 am Wales Online also managed to pick a side without a Scot in it. Williams at 15, on the grounds that Hogg has missed games due to isolation and that Exeter dropped him at the end of the season (what difference does that make?)
I’m fairly confident Gatland will start Hogg, but this is the decision I’m most hoping for to ram it up all of the pundits. I can accept Curry over Watson, even if I think Mish deserves it more, but most of all I want to see Hogg picked over Williams.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
I don’t think anyone was expecting a bumper crop of Lions on the last few tours - we’ve been poor, after all. However, I do think a lot of marginal decisions went against us over that time simply because playing for Scotland was a disadvantage. We’ve seen a variety of decidedly average players picked from the other 3 countries, whereas some of our standout players went their whole careers without even making a squad - not just Barclay, but Paterson and Kelly Brown, and that’s just off the top of my head. Even Jason White, who is near the top of my list of players I wish we could have back right now, only made one squad as an injury replacement, and got nowhere near the Test team.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:44 pm One thing I'd bet my house on, the Lions selectors aren't going to give a monkey's what is written in the press back in the UK, they will select what they think is the team most fit to do the job.
There will be disappointed players and fans, it comes with the territory.
I personally had little argument against the number of Scots on previous tours, perhaps John Barclay can consider himself very unlucky, but there are few others.
The doesn't mean I've forgotten the decision to play Euan Murray as a dirt tracker, that came back to bite the Lions on the arse, big time, that was that Rowntree's doing.
We’ve had 20 years in which our players had to overcome the disadvantage of playing for Scotland to get picked, and they had to be head and shoulders above the competition to even be considered.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
I still think that other teams have had players miss out close calls too but we feel it more because it is out 3rd and 4th players on tour rather than 8th or 9th.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:07 amI don’t think anyone was expecting a bumper crop of Lions on the last few tours - we’ve been poor, after all. However, I do think a lot of marginal decisions went against us over that time simply because playing for Scotland was a disadvantage. We’ve seen a variety of decidedly average players picked from the other 3 countries, whereas some of our standout players went their whole careers without even making a squad - not just Barclay, but Paterson and Kelly Brown, and that’s just off the top of my head. Even Jason White, who is near the top of my list of players I wish we could have back right now, only made one squad as an injury replacement, and got nowhere near the Test team.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:44 pm One thing I'd bet my house on, the Lions selectors aren't going to give a monkey's what is written in the press back in the UK, they will select what they think is the team most fit to do the job.
There will be disappointed players and fans, it comes with the territory.
I personally had little argument against the number of Scots on previous tours, perhaps John Barclay can consider himself very unlucky, but there are few others.
The doesn't mean I've forgotten the decision to play Euan Murray as a dirt tracker, that came back to bite the Lions on the arse, big time, that was that Rowntree's doing.
We’ve had 20 years in which our players had to overcome the disadvantage of playing for Scotland to get picked, and they had to be head and shoulders above the competition to even be considered.
Kelly Brown was never in contention for the Lions. He wasn't a first choice for us in 2009 and 2013 he was playing at 7 for us and he wasn't in the same discussion as Warburton or Tipuric as a 7.
Jason White was called up to the 2005 Lions as a replacement for Richard Hill.
I'd have taken him ten times out of ten over Martin Corry in the original squad. Simon Taylor was in that squad as was Gordon Bulloch. Bulloch's name reminds me that Scott Murray was unlucky, he made a tour but no tests.
I can't quite see Mossie as a Lion, he suffered from being our best outside back at the time and got shifted around in order to accommodate inferior players (who to be fair were the best options we had), he never got the chance to make his mark in an international jersey, imo.
I'd have taken him ten times out of ten over Martin Corry in the original squad. Simon Taylor was in that squad as was Gordon Bulloch. Bulloch's name reminds me that Scott Murray was unlucky, he made a tour but no tests.
I can't quite see Mossie as a Lion, he suffered from being our best outside back at the time and got shifted around in order to accommodate inferior players (who to be fair were the best options we had), he never got the chance to make his mark in an international jersey, imo.
You’re right that the timing was all wrong for KB. Who was it who insisted he play at 7? The fact that he (a natural 6/8) was made to play 7, and JB (a natural 7) was made to play 6 is one of the great mysteries of Scottish rugby.Big D wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:30 amI still think that other teams have had players miss out close calls too but we feel it more because it is out 3rd and 4th players on tour rather than 8th or 9th.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:07 amI don’t think anyone was expecting a bumper crop of Lions on the last few tours - we’ve been poor, after all. However, I do think a lot of marginal decisions went against us over that time simply because playing for Scotland was a disadvantage. We’ve seen a variety of decidedly average players picked from the other 3 countries, whereas some of our standout players went their whole careers without even making a squad - not just Barclay, but Paterson and Kelly Brown, and that’s just off the top of my head. Even Jason White, who is near the top of my list of players I wish we could have back right now, only made one squad as an injury replacement, and got nowhere near the Test team.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:44 pm One thing I'd bet my house on, the Lions selectors aren't going to give a monkey's what is written in the press back in the UK, they will select what they think is the team most fit to do the job.
There will be disappointed players and fans, it comes with the territory.
I personally had little argument against the number of Scots on previous tours, perhaps John Barclay can consider himself very unlucky, but there are few others.
The doesn't mean I've forgotten the decision to play Euan Murray as a dirt tracker, that came back to bite the Lions on the arse, big time, that was that Rowntree's doing.
We’ve had 20 years in which our players had to overcome the disadvantage of playing for Scotland to get picked, and they had to be head and shoulders above the competition to even be considered.
Kelly Brown was never in contention for the Lions. He wasn't a first choice for us in 2009 and 2013 he was playing at 7 for us and he wasn't in the same discussion as Warburton or Tipuric as a 7.
Regarding Paterson: I think a lot of people forget that he was an electric strike runner in his early career. Not quite in the Hogg class, but then very few are! His memory has been tarnished because he was kept in the team for his kicking long after his attacking flair had gone. The old bored voted for him as Test 15 in 2005, and then he wasn’t even picked to tour.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
Obviously a falling out or been made a big offer from elsewhere as it is a strange time for him to go? I thought he and his family were settled in Embra and he was here until his kids finished schooling. It will be interesting to see who gets the job next.