Official Lions selection, moaning and bitching thread

[SaintK]

Alun Wyn Jones is fit again and rejoining the touring party.

That's remarkable.

He's surely retiring after the tour then?

When he was initially injured didn't Gatland say there's an option for him coming back that wouldn't be available to younger players which heavily implies they can patch him up enough to play, but it's probably not going to be good for him long term.



Also, general plea, can we not quote refry? I've got him on ignore for a reason. Ta.

Nothing to lose really so long as there is little prospect of long term damage over and above what he will already have.

He will need to play on Saturday though. Can't risk him in a test without a trial run.

He will definitely have to play on Saturday and play effin well.
Should imagine that Gatland has his forward combos already worked out
Amazing recovery mind!

[Line6 HXFX]

Alun is the sort of guy the lions need, but will be completely derided. Mocked, marginalised by "lions" supporters as lions supporters are basically English, Irish and Scottish nationalists and care very little about the lions.
I care more about the lions, than you do, and I want them to disband and never play again.
All you can think is "is he going to replace our guy".
Churlish as fuck.
But churlish as fuck is frankly interwoven into the lions supporter ethos...and you can keep it.


Is it quite despicable tbh and our fine, championship winning Welsh players don't need this sky sports shite.

[Tichtheid]

‘kinell

[Kawazaki]

Bookies have the Lions as odds-on 3/5 favourites tonight. You can get 16/11 on a Boks win. If I could afford to lose a grand, I'd stick it on the South African test team selected for tonight and be quite confident of picking up an easy £450 quid.

[SaintK]

Anyone got a stream?
Usual one not working

[Kawazaki]

Anyone got a stream?
Usual one not working

Doesn't kick off until 7pm, they won't be up yet!

[SaintK]

Anyone got a stream?
Usual one not working

Doesn't kick off until 7pm, they won't be up yet!

andf there's me getting all anxious that I was missing it.

[ASMO]

It will be here

https://www.vipleague.lc/rugby-sports-stream

[SaintK]

It will be here

https://www.vipleague.lc/rugby-sports-stream

Ta

[Big D]

He's surely retiring after the tour then?

When he was initially injured didn't Gatland say there's an option for him coming back that wouldn't be available to younger players which heavily implies they can patch him up enough to play, but it's probably not going to be good for him long term.



Also, general plea, can we not quote refry? I've got him on ignore for a reason. Ta.

Nothing to lose really so long as there is little prospect of long term damage over and above what he will already have.

He will need to play on Saturday though. Can't risk him in a test without a trial run.

He will definitely have to play on Saturday and play effin well.
Should imagine that Gatland has his forward combos already worked out
Amazing recovery mind!

Just read he won't be considered for Saturday.

[Kawazaki]

It will be here

https://www.vipleague.lc/rugby-sports-stream

Ta

Sky feed if your prefer British commentators...

http://pass.freestreams-live1.com/skysmain/

[Tichtheid]

After tonight, for the first test (and it's opne to constant change) I have

Jones or Sutherland, Owens or LCD, Furlong
Beard, Itoje (depending on how AWJ performs, or Hendo, this is quite tight
Beirne, A No8, Curry or Watson

Price, Biggar
Duhan, 12, 13, Watson
Hogg or Williams

Owens or LCD, Jones or Sutherland, Sinks, one of the locks, Watson or Curry, maybe Hendo or Lawes for flexibility. a scrum half who needs to find form, two others

[Margin__Walker]

Not a disaster for the Lions. They aren't going to face much better than that in terms of personnel when they get to the tests. Albeit SA will have blown off some of the rust. For me.

Decent:
Itoje
Curry
Beard
Faletau

Okay:
Henderson
Navidi
Daly
Harris
Sinckler
Watson
Jones
LRZ

Poor:
Farrell
Murray
Owens


If I were picking the starting 15 tomorrow, I'd go:

Jones
George
Furlong
Itoje
AWJ (for the craic)
Beirne/Lawes
Curry
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Daly
Watson
Hogg

[Big D]

Not a disaster for the Lions. They aren't going to face much better than that in terms of personnel when they get to the tests. Albeit SA will have blown off some of the rust. For me.

Decent:
Itoje
Curry
Beard
Faletau

Okay:
Henderson
Navidi
Daly
Harris
Sinckler
Watson
Jones
LRZ

Poor:
Farrell
Murray
Owens


If I were picking the starting 15 tomorrow, I'd go:

Jones
George
Furlong
Itoje
AWJ (for the craic)
Beirne/Lawes
Curry
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Daly
Watson
Hogg

AWJ has to start or not be involved. Too big a risk to have him on bench.

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah really depends on just how fit he is.

Gives you the flexibility to play an in form 9 though

[Kawazaki]

Daly played himself into serious contention I reckon.

[Big D]

Think that should have been at least a penalty. If they let a few of these go in the tests it might get tasty.

[Madness]

Good workout for both teams, do think injuries and red cards are actually going to have the most significant impact on 2 teams that are closely matched.

Tonight for me

Good - Itoje, Curry, Watson, Sinks, Harris (2nd half)

OK - Jones, Owens, Henderson, Faletau, Daly, LRZ

Not the best - Navidi, Murray, Farrell, Aki

Subs - LCD proved he has the sub hooker slot, Mako was better than previously, Fagerson/SImmonds/Beirne not much time or little impact, Beard was great on lineout and maul defence but nowhere near the test tean

So if the 9-10-12 are not the best and you're chasing a game its not going well. Its annoying to hear the pundits saying that Farrell is a test match animal and will come good, been great in training, sets the example when he clearly is off form like he has been for last year or so, he doesn't suddenly light up a game.

Sat has to be those players who really need a game so assuming all bar Russell are fit then for Sat I'd go

Sutherland
LCD
Fagerson
Beard
Hill
Lawes
Watson
Conan
Price
BIggar
VDM
Henshaw
Daly
Adams
Hogg

Mako, George, Furlong, Beirne, Curry, Davies, Smith, Williams

[Madness]

And my 23 for the first test

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Curry
Watson
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Williams
Henshaw
Daly
Watson
Hogg

Vunipola, LCD, Sinks, Lawes, Beirne, Murray, Farrell, VDM

[Big D]

I could see Daly and Harris at 13/23. Harris cam cover wing too.

[clydecloggie]

Just catching up with yesterday's game.

Farrell proper gash at 10 - the charged down kick for the 1st try was a howler, and minutes later he kicks a penalty dead. With Biggar and Russell injured, I assume Marcus Smith will play on Saturday?

As expected, Lions second best in the physicality stakes, but worryingly little creativity to balance that from the half-backs.

Ali Price in pole position for Test 9? Never imagined that before the tour.

[ASMO]

And my 23 for the first test

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Curry
Watson
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Williams
Henshaw
Daly
Watson
Hogg

Vunipola, LCD, Sinks, Lawes, Beirne, Murray, Farrell, VDM

I would have VDM instead of Williams and anyone instead of Faletau, he is just so off form its not funny. Possibly stick Curry at 8 and promote Lawes to the flank. Farrell and Murray nowhere near the test 23

[Slick]

And my 23 for the first test

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Curry
Watson
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Williams
Henshaw
Daly
Watson
Hogg

Vunipola, LCD, Sinks, Lawes, Beirne, Murray, Farrell, VDM

I would have VDM instead of Williams and anyone instead of Faletau, he is just so off form its not funny. Possibly stick Curry at 8 and promote Lawes to the flank. Farrell and Murray nowhere near the test 23

Agree, 8 is a bit of a problem position. I wonder if 6- Beirne, 7-Watson, 8 - Curry could work. Might need Lawes at 2nd row as a ball carrier with that but not sure that's really a role for him

Also, although I'm a fan of Daley, he is having quite a few brainfarts, think I'd feel better with Harris at 13.

[SaintK]

And my 23 for the first test

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Curry
Watson
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Williams
Henshaw
Daly
Watson
Hogg

Vunipola, LCD, Sinks, Lawes, Beirne, Murray, Farrell, VDM

I would have VDM instead of Williams and anyone instead of Faletau, he is just so off form its not funny. Possibly stick Curry at 8 and promote Lawes to the flank. Farrell and Murray nowhere near the test 23

Agree, 8 is a bit of a problem position. I wonder if 6- Beirne, 7-Watson, 8 - Curry could work. Might need Lawes at 2nd row as a ball carrier with that but not sure that's really a role for him

Also, although I'm a fan of Daley, he is having quite a few brainfarts, think I'd feel better with Harris at 13.

Daly perfecr bench cover.
Not sure what Hogg has done on tour thus far to start the 1st test?

[Slick]

Not sure what Hogg has done on tour thus far to start the 1st test?

It's a fair question. I think he was pretty assured in the game he played and, IMO, no one has put their hand up as being a better proposition at 15. In that particular position I think they will have to go on past performance and current/pre tour international form and I think he leads that.

[Kawazaki]

Not sure what Hogg has done on tour thus far to start the 1st test?

It's a fair question. I think he was pretty assured in the game he played and, IMO, no one has put their hand up as being a better proposition at 15. In that particular position I think they will have to go on past performance and current/pre tour international form and I think he leads that.

I genuinely thought Daly has his best game for years last night, and definitely as a fullback. He is in the mix to start now though the #23 shirt is already almost certainly his.

[Margin__Walker]

This team could be fun to watch

DHL STORMERS v THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS

Stuart Hogg – captain (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836
Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, England)
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843
Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, England) #845
Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

Replacements:
Jamie George (Saracens, England) #819
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #848
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, Wales) #761
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849
Gareth Davies (Scarlets, Wales) #850
Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland) #844
Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby, Wales) #846

[Big D]

I think we need to be careful getting too far ahead with x or y was good last night, especially where it was "only" the second half. SA took their foot off the gas a little with all their subs. That being said I think Daly continued to put forward a good case for a spot in the 23.

It feels like Harris and Daly will be either 13 or 23. Harris covers centre and wing and Daly also covers full back.

Not sure what Hogg has done on tour thus far to start the 1st test?

I don't think any of the full back options have separated themselves from the field and are all classy players. Last night was the only real test thus far and the other games have been against tomato cans.

Having watched last night I think Hogg will be needed for a 2nd kicking option similar to what Scotland did v France. I can't see how Farrell can start at 12 after last nights performance and they need a second boot. Hogg is a better boot than any of the other options. He also brings a different type of counter attacking than Williams and Watson who are a bit more rangy (and also very good), Hogg is good at stepping through traffic which may also be beneficial v that style of defence.

One underrated aspect of Hogg's game is he reads games pretty well as a senior player, I genuinely think he has been Scotlands best captains for a long time. I am confident he'd have been in Murrays ear last night to take a scrum at the end of the 1st half. I think there is still a chance we see Hogg as the test captain. AWJ may not be ready to go even though he is benching on Saturday and Murray was hopeless last night.

That being said, I have maintained and believe that the Lions can't really go wrong in the back 3. Although for me LRZ should miss out.

[Big D]

This team could be fun to watch

DHL STORMERS v THE BRITISH & IRISH LIONS

Stuart Hogg – captain (Exeter Chiefs, Scotland) #783
Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836
Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #824
Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #841
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, England)
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #843
Rory Sutherland (Worcester Warriors, Scotland) #840
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #818
Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, England) #845
Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland) #847
Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland) #839

Replacements:
Jamie George (Saracens, England) #819
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #848
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, Wales) #761
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849
Gareth Davies (Scarlets, Wales) #850
Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland) #844
Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby, Wales) #846

Should be a huge amount of fun. It is her indoors birthday so I will need to catch up after the game on this one.

Biggar presumably wrapped in cotton wool with an additional layer of bubble wrap.

[Tichtheid]

Marcus Smith is one of my favourite players, I'd love for him to have an absolute blinder.

That's a very strong side.

[Margin__Walker]

Marcus Smith is one of my favourite players, I'd love for him to have an absolute blinder.

That's a very strong side.

Yeah, he is a serious player, so hope he performs on this stage. He's got the rounded skillset to really bring the other backs into the game if all goes well.

[Jock42]

One underrated aspect of Hogg's game is he reads games pretty well as a senior player, I genuinely think he has been Scotlands best captains for a long time. I am confident he'd have been in Murrays ear last night to take a scrum at the end of the 1st half. I think there is still a chance we see Hogg as the test captain. AWJ may not be ready to go even though he is benching on Saturday and Murray was hopeless last night.

Totally agree about Hoggs leadership, I don't think he gets enough credit for transforming his attitude from a few years back.

[dkm57]

Looking forward to seeing what Marcus Smith can do at this level.

LRZ and Marcus Smith, mouthwatering future Lions prospects and will benefit hugely from being around around the better/more experienced group of players.

[ASMO]

That is probably the most exciting backline the Lions could put out, could be a Test starting front row there too

[Slick]

Anyone know where you can watch all the old Lions tour films? Prime wants me to pay extra

[Jock42]

Anyone know where you can watch all the old Lions tour films? Prime wants me to pay extra

I think Sky are replaying some stuff on Sky Action

[Slick]

Anyone know where you can watch all the old Lions tour films? Prime wants me to pay extra

I think Sky are replaying some stuff on Sky Action

Thanks mate, seen some dodgy looking ones on YouTube but not sure if they will cut out halfway or something. Only ever watch the original Living With The Lions

[Raggs]

Some interesting stats on the forwards:



Loosehead and hooker have some points to argue, but I really don't see Fagerson doing well.

However, having done stats myself, there's a big difference between starting front row, and subbing on with 20 minutes, in terms of how much work they do.

[Big D]

For some of those stats e.g the metres made is still a small sample size where one big run can make a huge difference.

There are some stats that I'm not too bothered about; like passing. Furlong isn't in the team to pass the ball and it isn't his strong suit.

I think everyone knows Fagerson hasn't been at his best this tour. Which is a shame but happens unfortunately.

It is a shame there are no stats for rucks hit, successful clear outs etc.

[Begbie]

The bold Corbs here thinks Sinkler is as good a scrummager as Furlong and gets the start because of his "chop tackles"