The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Big D]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sutherland drops out the 23 for next week but that isn't a reflection on him.

If Mako can hold up the scrum he is the better bench option of all 3 LHPs.

[JM2K6]

Price and Duhan had good games. Hogg decent bar one shitting of the bed after the Kolbe knock on.

Watson lucky not to be binned and the Curry debate settled for this tour in terms of who starts.

I don't think the debate is settled, both players missed their chance to make a statement. Was disappointed that we didn't see all-action Watson when he came on though, given Curry was very visible

[And 1 guest]

Thought price was superb. Duhan did nothing wrong. Hogg was good. Rory not so, but let's see where injuries leave things

[Biffer]

I’m really excited to see what this experience does for Price over the next few years. Looks like clearly the best SH in UK and Ireland just now.

[Biffer]

Thought price was superb. Duhan did nothing wrong. Hogg was good. Rory not so, but let's see where injuries leave things

Have to say I think the scrum problems in the first half were down to LCD.

[KingBlairhorn]

I’m really excited to see what this experience does for Price over the next few years. Looks like clearly the best SH in UK and Ireland just now.

Loses his place to Dobbie?

[JM2K6]

Thought price was superb. Duhan did nothing wrong. Hogg was good. Rory not so, but let's see where injuries leave things

Have to say I think the scrum problems in the first half were down to LCD.

Eh - the problem was the Saffer props being all over the place, destabilising it. It's no surprise it changed immediately after half time, which is when they went off.

[Biffer]

I’m really excited to see what this experience does for Price over the next few years. Looks like clearly the best SH in UK and Ireland just now.

Loses his place to Dobbie?

Dobbie to Edinburgh to battle with Shiel.

[Yr Alban]

Thought price was superb. Duhan did nothing wrong. Hogg was good. Rory not so, but let's see where injuries leave things

I didn’t think Sutherland did badly at all. He got pinged once, but there was some doubt over whether it was his fault. Other than that he was pretty solid.

Vunipola did look very good when he came on, so it wouldn’t surprise me either if he leapfrogged Sutherland next week, but that’s not on Rory. He’s a Test Lion now, and played in a victory.

Harris might get a shot next week?

[Biffer]

Thought price was superb. Duhan did nothing wrong. Hogg was good. Rory not so, but let's see where injuries leave things

I didn’t think Sutherland did badly at all. He got pinged once, but there was some doubt over whether it was his fault. Other than that he was pretty solid.

Vunipola did look very good when he came on, so it wouldn’t surprise me either if he leapfrogged Sutherland next week, but that’s not on Rory. He’s a Test Lion now, and played in a victory.

Harris might get a shot next week?

Think Vunipola was helped by having Owens on. Sutherland was good, LH is still very much a toss up between the three guys.

Harris has to be ahead of Daly after today.

[KingBlairhorn]

Only saw the last 10/15 mins, I saw Williams come on and his only contribution of note was to drop two high balls.

[KingBlairhorn]

Only saw the last 10/15 mins, I saw Williams come on and his only contribution of note was to drop two high balls.

[Yr Alban]

Only saw the last 10/15 mins, I saw Williams come on and his only contribution of note was to drop two high balls.

I did think it was ironic that the man who we were told should start at 15 because of his ability under the high ball failed to secure any high balls. He wasn’t alone in that though.

[Slick]

Thought price was superb. Duhan did nothing wrong. Hogg was good. Rory not so, but let's see where injuries leave things

I didn’t think Sutherland did badly at all. He got pinged once, but there was some doubt over whether it was his fault. Other than that he was pretty solid.

Vunipola did look very good when he came on, so it wouldn’t surprise me either if he leapfrogged Sutherland next week, but that’s not on Rory. He’s a Test Lion now, and played in a victory.

Harris might get a shot next week?

Think Vunipola was helped by having Owens on. Sutherland was good, LH is still very much a toss up between the three guys.

Harris has to be ahead of Daly after today.

Agree. Think at 1 guest and Big D being harsh on Sutherland. That 1 (one) penalty was very harsh IMO and he was good around the park. Actually feel for Wyn Jones as I have a feeling Mako might start next week with Sutherland on the bench

[Blackmac]

I didn’t think Sutherland did badly at all. He got pinged once, but there was some doubt over whether it was his fault. Other than that he was pretty solid.

Vunipola did look very good when he came on, so it wouldn’t surprise me either if he leapfrogged Sutherland next week, but that’s not on Rory. He’s a Test Lion now, and played in a victory.

Harris might get a shot next week?

Think Vunipola was helped by having Owens on. Sutherland was good, LH is still very much a toss up between the three guys.

Harris has to be ahead of Daly after today.

Agree. Think at 1 guest and Big D being harsh on Sutherland. That 1 (one) penalty was very harsh IMO and he was good around the park. Actually feel for Wyn Jones as I have a feeling Mako might start next week with Sutherland on the bench

I tend to agree with them, he wasn't bad but didn't stand out. Jones, who I think is a lazy prick, will no doubt start and Rory drop out.
Price appears to be getting no credit but I thought he was excellent. Hogg and WdM just not given much chance to shine.

LCD and Daly were just appalling.

[Slick]

Think Vunipola was helped by having Owens on. Sutherland was good, LH is still very much a toss up between the three guys.

Harris has to be ahead of Daly after today.

Agree. Think at 1 guest and Big D being harsh on Sutherland. That 1 (one) penalty was very harsh IMO and he was good around the park. Actually feel for Wyn Jones as I have a feeling Mako might start next week with Sutherland on the bench

I tend to agree with them, he wasn't bad but didn't stand out. Jones, who I think is a lazy prick, will no doubt start and Rory drop out.
Price appears to be getting no credit but I thought he was excellent. Hogg and WdM just not given much chance to shine.

LCD and Daly were just appalling.

Well you are wrong as well then

[Big D]

I didn’t think Sutherland did badly at all. He got pinged once, but there was some doubt over whether it was his fault. Other than that he was pretty solid.

Vunipola did look very good when he came on, so it wouldn’t surprise me either if he leapfrogged Sutherland next week, but that’s not on Rory. He’s a Test Lion now, and played in a victory.

Harris might get a shot next week?

Think Vunipola was helped by having Owens on. Sutherland was good, LH is still very much a toss up between the three guys.

Harris has to be ahead of Daly after today.

Agree. Think at 1 guest and Big D being harsh on Sutherland. That 1 (one) penalty was very harsh IMO and he was good around the park. Actually feel for Wyn Jones as I have a feeling Mako might start next week with Sutherland on the bench

I don't think I've been harsh at all. I clearly said it wouldn't be a reflection on him.

Wyn Jones is obviously their 1st choice LHP. If Vunipola can hold up his scrummaging them he may be a better impact off the bench. I don't think that is harsh really.

[Slick]

Think Vunipola was helped by having Owens on. Sutherland was good, LH is still very much a toss up between the three guys.

Harris has to be ahead of Daly after today.

Agree. Think at 1 guest and Big D being harsh on Sutherland. That 1 (one) penalty was very harsh IMO and he was good around the park. Actually feel for Wyn Jones as I have a feeling Mako might start next week with Sutherland on the bench

I don't think I've been harsh at all. I clearly said it wouldn't be a reflection on him.

Wyn Jones is obviously their 1st choice LHP. If Vunipola can hold up his scrummaging them he may be a better impact off the bench. I don't think that is harsh really.

Actually, having read again I think you are probably spot on. Apologies

Edit: I just thought Sutherland actually had a good game so was probably being a bit defensive

[Blackmac]

The parochial lunatics on PR are jerking themselves into a frenzy trying to convince themselves that the win was despite the Scots.

[dpedin]

The parochial lunatics on PR are jerking themselves into a frenzy trying to convince themselves that the win was despite the Scots.

I thought the guys did good. Sutherland held his side of the scrum up and was good at the cleaning out and carrying in the tight. Price was probably the best Lions back, VdM did what he usually does and looked solid under the ball and in defence, Hogg did everything that was asked of him and was solid in defence and covering the back field.

Most of the penalties and points the Lions conceded were from the English contingent in the 1st half - Curry and Daly being the main culprits. Also interesting that SA started targeting our right wing with kicks in the 2nd half and between them Watson and Daly managed to miss almost all of them. The welsh hero Williams came on and managed to drop or knock on every high ball that came his way. Daly was, as expected, a liability at 13 and is just not a very clever player in any position he plays, he needs to be dropped. LCD was a major disappointment, his arrows were just plain awful and he seemed to lose confidence quickly. AWJ is clearly not match fit and didn't do a lot around the pitch and I would think he is under pressure. Biggar didn't really control the game as expected but he is safe as Farrell was even worse when he came on.

SA looked lacking match fitness and faded badly in the 2nd half and the Lions fitness won through. Not much rugby played in a disappointing game. Hopefully next one is better.

[Slick]

Never change dpedin

[Slick]

I did think that Finn coming on with 20 to go would have been brilliant.

Biggar was average today and Farrell was dog shit. Don’t know where he is fitness wise and doubt they would take the risk but I think he would have torn it up

[JM2K6]

LCD lost two lineouts out of twelve throws, one of which was a gimmick 5m short throw. Another poor one which wasn't called a loss was knocked on by SA that seemed to be the result of utter confusion in the lineout itself. The lineout was not a problem, and it was good enough for AWJ to trust it for LCD's try. It was a decent source of possession all game.

Sutherland's "good carrying in the tight" was one solitary carry for one metre.

Hogg conceded 3 turnovers and a handling error (and went 2/1 in defence). Watson, erm, none and none (also 2/1). If we're being fair about the back three.

So, y'know...


Edit: My point here isn't to needle scottish posters, just to say that players are being praised mostly because of their nationality it seems. Very few players emerged from the first half with any real credit. Some more stood up in the second half, but a large number of Lions did not do themselves justice - regardless of their nationality. Not sure inventing things helps.

[JM2K6]

I did think that Finn coming on with 20 to go would have been brilliant.

Biggar was average today and Farrell was dog shit. Don’t know where he is fitness wise and doubt they would take the risk but I think he would have torn it up

I fear for any flair 10 in that team and during that performance. There was a near total lack of cohesion for most of it. The last 20 probably would've been the best of it, but I can see anyone not happy with just booting it in the air ending up having to force things because no one is on the same wavelength and there was no sign of any real attacking patterns.

[Yr Alban]

LCD lost two lineouts out of twelve throws, one of which was a gimmick 5m short throw. Another poor one which wasn't called a loss was knocked on by SA that seemed to be the result of utter confusion in the lineout itself. The lineout was not a problem, and it was good enough for AWJ to trust it for LCD's try. It was a decent source of possession all game.

Sutherland's "good carrying in the tight" was one solitary carry for one metre.

Hogg conceded 3 turnovers and a handling error (and went 2/1 in defence). Watson, erm, none and none (also 2/1). If we're being fair about the back three.

So, y'know...


Edit: My point here isn't to needle scottish posters, just to say that players are being praised mostly because of their nationality it seems. Very few players emerged from the first half with any real credit. Some more stood up in the second half, but a large number of Lions did not do themselves justice - regardless of their nationality. Not sure inventing things helps.

Personally I didn’t think LCD had a on especially bad game. I don’t think Sutherland had an especially good one - he was solid enough in the scrums and made one good tackle, but that was about it. OTOH, I can’t recall Hogg conceding 3 turnovers. Overall, I think the Scots in the team did OK. They weren’t the best performers, but they weren’t the worst either.

[JM2K6]

I wasn't happy with LCD's performance - I expected a lot more in defence, both in terms of tackling and his work at the breakdown. I thought the starting front row all did not do themselves justice, but then neither did a bunch of other players.

It is mad that Price isn't getting more praise and that the coaching isn't getting more criticism, mind.

[Happyhooker]

Thought price was superb. Duhan did nothing wrong. Hogg was good. Rory not so, but let's see where injuries leave things

Have to say I think the scrum problems in the first half were down to LCD.

Wut?? That's a mad take.

Sutherland ate their 3 for breakfast but the shit ref saw it the other way. It was ridiculous.

How in earth you can blame LCD for that is bloody nuts.

[I like neeps]

I tend to avoid Lions discussions because they are so parochial.

I thought Sutherland was good in defence, it looked like he was beaten at scrum time but who knows, and didn't carry really. Vunipola coming on looked better to be honest.

Hamish Watson was a very lucky boy not to be binned. It was a clear yellow in my opinion. Didn't really do much else.

Price was outstanding. His box kicks were just superb. Didn't get the chance to open up but that's a gameplan thing. Really as good as I think I've seen him play.

van der Merwe was good enough chasing kicks, great hand off on Etzebeth. Tactically was great wasn't sure if he had that in him but I was very wrong.

Hogg not so good, a lot of unforced errors, wasn't rock solid at the back, didn't really get much attacking chance and a few occasions thoughts his distribution was poor - e.g. the hospital pass to Henshaw, the pass to Biggar for Henshaw's break wasn't great Biggar bailed him out. I was disappointed.

Thought Itoje was absolutely incredible. It's good to be able to support him he's an absolutely world class lock. His physicality and intelligence is just something else.

All in all wouldn't be surprised to see Sutherland and maybe Watson drop out. Would be harsh to drop Hogg for Liam Williams but I wouldn't be too surprised. Chris Harris should start 13.

[Slick]

Thought price was superb. Duhan did nothing wrong. Hogg was good. Rory not so, but let's see where injuries leave things

Have to say I think the scrum problems in the first half were down to LCD.

Wut?? That's a mad take.

Sutherland ate their 3 for breakfast but the shit ref saw it the other way. It was ridiculous.

How in earth you can blame LCD for that is bloody nuts.

All the front rowers I have spoken with agree with you that Sutherland was great - a lot of the criticism seems to be coming from that one scrum penalty against him which even to my untrained eye seemed rubbish.

To follow up on Neeps comment, I was also going to say that having been slightly disengaged with the last couple of tours it seems far more nationalistic than before. To be fair I think the English lads on here have mostly been pretty balanced

[ASMO]

Have to say I think the scrum problems in the first half were down to LCD.

Wut?? That's a mad take.

Sutherland ate their 3 for breakfast but the shit ref saw it the other way. It was ridiculous.

How in earth you can blame LCD for that is bloody nuts.

All the front rowers I have spoken with agree with you that Sutherland was great - a lot of the criticism seems to be coming from that one scrum penalty against him which even to my untrained eye seemed rubbish.

To follow up on Neeps comment, I was also going to say that having been slightly disengaged with the last couple of tours it seems far more nationalistic than before. To be fair I think the English lads on here have mostly been pretty balanced

If you watch right from the start, the saffer tighthead was going in at an angle, should have been pinged more than once for it.

[Yr Alban]

I tend to avoid Lions discussions because they are so parochial.

I thought Sutherland was good in defence, it looked like he was beaten at scrum time but who knows, and didn't carry really. Vunipola coming on looked better to be honest.

Hamish Watson was a very lucky boy not to be binned. It was a clear yellow in my opinion. Didn't really do much else.

Price was outstanding. His box kicks were just superb. Didn't get the chance to open up but that's a gameplan thing. Really as good as I think I've seen him play.

van der Merwe was good enough chasing kicks, great hand off on Etzebeth. Tactically was great wasn't sure if he had that in him but I was very wrong.

Hogg not so good, a lot of unforced errors, wasn't rock solid at the back, didn't really get much attacking chance and a few occasions thoughts his distribution was poor - e.g. the hospital pass to Henshaw, the pass to Biggar for Henshaw's break wasn't great Biggar bailed him out. I was disappointed.

Thought Itoje was absolutely incredible. It's good to be able to support him he's an absolutely world class lock. His physicality and intelligence is just something else.

All in all wouldn't be surprised to see Sutherland and maybe Watson drop out. Would be harsh to drop Hogg for Liam Williams but I wouldn't be too surprised. Chris Harris should start 13.

Agree with most of that. Bit hard on Hogg, maybe, but you’re right about the hospital pass. I thought Williams was disappointing when he came on as well though. Nobody in red was good at securing ball in the air (except for one good take by Price, if memory serves?)

Not sure about Sutherland either, but things improved with Mako, so no complaints if he gets the nod next time. Watson is tougher, as Curry wasn’t outstanding, but he could have sold the jerseys with the daft almost-tip tackle, so I expect he’ll bench at best, again no complaints.

Regarding the parochial nature of this: I think that we get to be a wee bit precious after being shut out more or less entirely for so long. The English lads have been pretty balanced, but to be fair, they are more or less guaranteed decent representation. The Irish and Welsh have grown used to getting a larger slice of the pie at our expense, and in some cases seem to have decided it’s theirs by right. Anyway, it’s good to be able to cheer on the likes of Biggar and Itoje for a change.

[Slick]

Yup, a bit harsh on Hogg I think.

Sutherland will be interesting as I suspect the analysis will show he had a decent game but Vinipola made quite an impact when he came on.

Harris has to come in. I think IrnDu will be replaced by Williams.

On Itoje, I’ve always felt that the praise was slightly over the top and he wasn’t quite in that top echelon of 2nd rows but yesterday I was disabused of that. As everyone says, great to be able to cheer him on and appreciate what he brings - particularly now he seems to have cut out the stupid penalties.

On penalties, Curry gave away 3 in a row yesterday that gave them 6 points in the first half. If he was outstanding you could let that slide but he wasn’t so it’s a tricky selection

[Big D]

Yup, a bit harsh on Hogg I think.

Sutherland will be interesting as I suspect the analysis will show he had a decent game but Vinipola made quite an impact when he came on.

Harris has to come in. I think IrnDu will be replaced by Williams.

On Itoje, I’ve always felt that the praise was slightly over the top and he wasn’t quite in that top echelon of 2nd rows but yesterday I was disabused of that. As everyone says, great to be able to cheer him on and appreciate what he brings - particularly now he seems to have cut out the stupid penalties.

On penalties, Curry gave away 3 in a row yesterday that gave them 6 points in the first half. If he was outstanding you could let that slide but he wasn’t so it’s a tricky selection

On the last point, to be fair Watson gave away a kickabke penalty too. And could easily have been carded.

I don't think either did enough or little enough to change the selectors minds.

[SaintK]

Yup, a bit harsh on Hogg I think.

Sutherland will be interesting as I suspect the analysis will show he had a decent game but Vinipola made quite an impact when he came on.

Harris has to come in. I think IrnDu will be replaced by Williams.

On Itoje, I’ve always felt that the praise was slightly over the top and he wasn’t quite in that top echelon of 2nd rows but yesterday I was disabused of that. As everyone says, great to be able to cheer him on and appreciate what he brings - particularly now he seems to have cut out the stupid penalties.

On penalties, Curry gave away 3 in a row yesterday that gave them 6 points in the first half. If he was outstanding you could let that slide but he wasn’t so it’s a tricky selection

The only 2 changes I'd make. Though if Wyn JOnes is fit again I'd slot him back in on the bench instead of Mako so that you have both the best scrummaging looseheads in the matchday 23

[JM2K6]

Honestly Curry's pens were a little dubious - the first was a real "wtf" call, given that he penalised someone once for that and then never bothered again. Being ping for being temporarily in front of the kicker from a lineout then being put onside by a runner while not making an material impact on the contest for the ball is some seriously anal stuff. The second penalty was more of a regular one though he was pinned before the guy he was tackling had finished getting to ground, so, y'know. Third penalty was utterly braindead and the dumbest penalty given away until Watson's.

The problem Watson has is the only time he showed up was for that penalty - I was hoping for him to bring real energy and it didn't happen. So I suspect they'll just go again in the same setup next time.

VDM didn't do much wrong and I'd stick with the same back 3 but expect more from all of them. Hogg beat one guy all day and I'd hope for a bigger return than that. Henshaw came into things well in the 2nd half so Harris at 13 is a fine call.

[Yr Alban]

Yeah. Curry/Watson similar to Hogg/Williams, in that the starter didn’t have a great game, but the other candidate didn’t do anything much after coming on.

You’re right, I think Hogg only beat one player all day, but did he ever get the ball in space? It just wasn’t that sort of game.

[Blackmac]

I tend to avoid Lions discussions because they are so parochial.

I thought Sutherland was good in defence, it looked like he was beaten at scrum time but who knows, and didn't carry really. Vunipola coming on looked better to be honest.

Hamish Watson was a very lucky boy not to be binned. It was a clear yellow in my opinion. Didn't really do much else.

Price was outstanding. His box kicks were just superb. Didn't get the chance to open up but that's a gameplan thing. Really as good as I think I've seen him play.

van der Merwe was good enough chasing kicks, great hand off on Etzebeth. Tactically was great wasn't sure if he had that in him but I was very wrong.

Hogg not so good, a lot of unforced errors, wasn't rock solid at the back, didn't really get much attacking chance and a few occasions thoughts his distribution was poor - e.g. the hospital pass to Henshaw, the pass to Biggar for Henshaw's break wasn't great Biggar bailed him out. I was disappointed.

Thought Itoje was absolutely incredible. It's good to be able to support him he's an absolutely world class lock. His physicality and intelligence is just something else.

All in all wouldn't be surprised to see Sutherland and maybe Watson drop out. Would be harsh to drop Hogg for Liam Williams but I wouldn't be too surprised. Chris Harris should start 13.

Watch the hospital pass again. It was a bit loose but Farrell could easily have taken it but deliberately chose not to, dropping his arms and stepping back from the ball. He might be excused by the suggestion that he thought Henshaw was in a better position but he wasn't and you don't abdicate your responsibility in a defensive situation.

[Blackmac]

Yeah. Curry/Watson similar to Hogg/Williams, in that the starter didn’t have a great game, but the other candidate didn’t do anything much after coming on.

You’re right, I think Hogg only beat one player all day, but did he ever get the ball in space? It just wasn’t that sort of game.

It was a backs nightmare. Hogg was no better or worse than any back on the park with the exception of Price and Henshaw.

The criticism of his failure to take high balls is laughable when you count how many high balls were taken clearly. Williams missed all three he went for.

[Yr Alban]

In terms of changes, I don’t think they’ll make many. Daly will probably be dropped, most likely for Harris. They might leave Duhan or replace him, but either way it’ll be tactical. Backs probably the same otherwise unless Biggar is ruled out.

Forwards also the same except they might consider Owens for LCD, and at loosehead you could probably make a case for any potential combination.

[Biffer]

I tend to avoid Lions discussions because they are so parochial.

I thought Sutherland was good in defence, it looked like he was beaten at scrum time but who knows, and didn't carry really. Vunipola coming on looked better to be honest.

Hamish Watson was a very lucky boy not to be binned. It was a clear yellow in my opinion. Didn't really do much else.

Price was outstanding. His box kicks were just superb. Didn't get the chance to open up but that's a gameplan thing. Really as good as I think I've seen him play.

van der Merwe was good enough chasing kicks, great hand off on Etzebeth. Tactically was great wasn't sure if he had that in him but I was very wrong.

Hogg not so good, a lot of unforced errors, wasn't rock solid at the back, didn't really get much attacking chance and a few occasions thoughts his distribution was poor - e.g. the hospital pass to Henshaw, the pass to Biggar for Henshaw's break wasn't great Biggar bailed him out. I was disappointed.

Thought Itoje was absolutely incredible. It's good to be able to support him he's an absolutely world class lock. His physicality and intelligence is just something else.

All in all wouldn't be surprised to see Sutherland and maybe Watson drop out. Would be harsh to drop Hogg for Liam Williams but I wouldn't be too surprised. Chris Harris should start 13.

Agree with most of that. Bit hard on Hogg, maybe, but you’re right about the hospital pass. I thought Williams was disappointing when he came on as well though. Nobody in red was good at securing ball in the air (except for one good take by Price, if memory serves?)

Not sure about Sutherland either, but things improved with Mako, so no complaints if he gets the nod next time. Watson is tougher, as Curry wasn’t outstanding, but he could have sold the jerseys with the daft almost-tip tackle, so I expect he’ll bench at best, again no complaints.

Regarding the parochial nature of this: I think that we get to be a wee bit precious after being shut out more or less entirely for so long. The English lads have been pretty balanced, but to be fair, they are more or less guaranteed decent representation. The Irish and Welsh have grown used to getting a larger slice of the pie at our expense, and in some cases seem to have decided it’s theirs by right. Anyway, it’s good to be able to cheer on the likes of Biggar and Itoje for a change.

You’re right about the parochial stuff. There’s a whole generation of Irish and Welsh supporters that have been brought up on a diet of their players being better than ours. Now that’s no longer true, and there’s more pressure one their guys to earn their spot, they don’t like it.