The Springboks vs British & Irish Lions 2nd Test Thread

[Blake]

I find it funny that you think kicking is part of a "game plan". Rugby has a clear blueprint. If you spend 80% of a game in your own half, you're going to be kicking for 80% of the game. No serious team runs out of their own half, it's suicide. That's why idiots think this or that coach stole his "game plan" from a previous coach. This is the way the game is played, we've been doing it long before Jake the snake came along. The only time a player would run out of their own half is if they clearly see that they can get in the oppositions half with support. In the modern era you don't run out of your own half through traffic, you kick and apply pressure. We lost because we foked up the execution in the second half, not because of a "game plan"

The "plan" was clear to me when they announce the team and it was based around scrums. In the first half you had de Klerk clear the ball quickly from the scrums, cause they knew they were up against a better scrum. In the second half he was taking his sweet time to get the ball out. The aim was to tire out the Lions forwards in the first half and capitalize when the reserves came on. Unfortunately that shit soccer pitch foked the plan up a bit.

THIS! FUCKING THIS!

I watched the Lions vs Bulls game over the weekend, and just for fun looked to see what happened every time the Lions tried to run the ball when they had possession between their 22m and halfway. EVERY SINGLE TIME, the Bulls forced a knock on and an attacking scrum, forced a turnover and scored a try, or forced a penalty and kicked for goal or the corner.

Zone 1: In your own 22m you kick long for territory. Bonus points if you kick it out. If you don't kick it out, you need to chase hard, because you want to keep them in Zone 3.
Zone 2: Between the 22m and 50m you kick it high and contestable, into Zone 3. You can take it slow. Wait for your chasers to set, and for the support runners / defensive line to set so they can move up in a straight line.
Zone 3: If you have possession or turn over possession in Zone 3, you play with tempo, because there is an opportunity to get points. Both World Cup Final tries were scored from Zone 3. If you don't have possession, this is where you want to pin your opposition for as long as possible and bash the shit out of them until you can turn over the ball. On the floor or after a knock-on when you have a dominant scrum.
Zone 4: You are in the red zone. You obviously try to score, and hope you don't butcher the chances, but here you grind it out. Tire out the opposition and lay siege to their line. Maybe even milk a card or two for repeated infringements.

It's simple, it's boring, it's attritional, but it's helluva effective if you execute it well. And just as well as it can work for you, it can also work as effectively against you.

We just couldn't camp in Zone 3 in the second half. Price kept kicking it into Zone 2, where we couldn't field the high ball, and the it was a series of Lions scums and penalties and lineouts in our half.
The could of times we managed to get into Zone 3 in the second half Faf scored our only try, and we almost scored another with 10 mins to go when the Lions played hot-potato with the ball after Kolbe contested a high kick.

[boere wors]

THIS! FUCKING THIS!

I watched the Lions vs Bulls game over the weekend, and just for fun looked to see what happened every time the Lions tried to run the ball when they had possession between their 22m and halfway. EVERY SINGLE TIME, the Bulls forced a knock on and an attacking scrum, forced a turnover and scored a try, or forced a penalty and kicked for goal or the corner.

Zone 1: In your own 22m you kick long for territory. Bonus points if you kick it out. If you don't kick it out, you need to chase hard, because you want to keep them in Zone 3.
Zone 2: Between the 22m and 50m you kick it high and contestable, into Zone 3. You can take it slow. Wait for your chasers to set, and for the support runners / defensive line to set so they can move up in a straight line.
Zone 3: If you have possession or turn over possession in Zone 3, you play with tempo, because there is an opportunity to get points. Both World Cup Final tries were scored from Zone 3. If you don't have possession, this is where you want to pin your opposition for as long as possible and bash the shit out of them until you can turn over the ball. On the floor or after a knock-on when you have a dominant scrum.
Zone 4: You are in the red zone. You obviously try to score, and hope you don't butcher the chances, but here you grind it out. Tire out the opposition and lay siege to their line. Maybe even milk a card or two for repeated infringements.

It's simple, it's boring, it's attritional, but it's helluva effective if you execute it well. And just as well as it can work for you, it can also work as effectively against you.

We just couldn't camp in Zone 3 in the second half. Price kept kicking it into Zone 2, where we couldn't field the high ball, and the it was a series of Lions scums and penalties and lineouts in our half.
The could of times we managed to get into Zone 3 in the second half Faf scored our only try, and we almost scored another with 10 mins to go when the Lions played hot-potato with the ball after Kolbe contested a high kick.

Spot on

[Chilli]

I find it funny that you think kicking is part of a "game plan". Rugby has a clear blueprint. If you spend 80% of a game in your own half, you're going to be kicking for 80% of the game. No serious team runs out of their own half, it's suicide. That's why idiots think this or that coach stole his "game plan" from a previous coach. This is the way the game is played, we've been doing it long before Jake the snake came along. The only time a player would run out of their own half is if they clearly see that they can get in the oppositions half with support. In the modern era you don't run out of your own half through traffic, you kick and apply pressure. We lost because we foked up the execution in the second half, not because of a "game plan"

The "plan" was clear to me when they announce the team and it was based around scrums. In the first half you had de Klerk clear the ball quickly from the scrums, cause they knew they were up against a better scrum. In the second half he was taking his sweet time to get the ball out. The aim was to tire out the Lions forwards in the first half and capitalize when the reserves came on. Unfortunately that shit soccer pitch foked the plan up a bit.

THIS! FUCKING THIS!

I watched the Lions vs Bulls game over the weekend, and just for fun looked to see what happened every time the Lions tried to run the ball when they had possession between their 22m and halfway. EVERY SINGLE TIME, the Bulls forced a knock on and an attacking scrum, forced a turnover and scored a try, or forced a penalty and kicked for goal or the corner.

Zone 1: In your own 22m you kick long for territory. Bonus points if you kick it out. If you don't kick it out, you need to chase hard, because you want to keep them in Zone 3.
Zone 2: Between the 22m and 50m you kick it high and contestable, into Zone 3. You can take it slow. Wait for your chasers to set, and for the support runners / defensive line to set so they can move up in a straight line.
Zone 3: If you have possession or turn over possession in Zone 3, you play with tempo, because there is an opportunity to get points. Both World Cup Final tries were scored from Zone 3. If you don't have possession, this is where you want to pin your opposition for as long as possible and bash the shit out of them until you can turn over the ball. On the floor or after a knock-on when you have a dominant scrum.
Zone 4: You are in the red zone. You obviously try to score, and hope you don't butcher the chances, but here you grind it out. Tire out the opposition and lay siege to their line. Maybe even milk a card or two for repeated infringements.

It's simple, it's boring, it's attritional, but it's helluva effective if you execute it well. And just as well as it can work for you, it can also work as effectively against you.

We just couldn't camp in Zone 3 in the second half. Price kept kicking it into Zone 2, where we couldn't field the high ball, and the it was a series of Lions scums and penalties and lineouts in our half.
The could of times we managed to get into Zone 3 in the second half Faf scored our only try, and we almost scored another with 10 mins to go when the Lions played hot-potato with the ball after Kolbe contested a high kick.

So are the WP bench still to blame? Or can Oom come back?

[Sards]

Ouboet will come back after he has had a few charge office coffees

Actually I am going to gooi one on him

[Sards]

Talking of sig bets

Rassie really has got himself into an online mess. We better all get together and pray for the boks to win or else Rassie is going to make his name gat

[Chilli]

Talking of sig bets

Rassie really has got himself into an online mess. We better all get together and pray for the boks to win or else Rassie is going to make his name gat

Ja.........................it is a bit childish.

[Chilli]

Ex-Bok assistant coach: 'Stave off a sandpit ... use Newlands for Test'

Currently dormant Newlands would be best equipped to host the - possibly decisive - final Test of the series between the Springboks and British and Irish Lions.

That is the view of Gary Gold, assistant coach in charge of the forwards when the Boks won the 2009 series 2-1.


He is concerned about the possible state of Cape Town Stadium after the effects another Test this Saturday will have on its questionable playing surface.

It was already under scrutiny after breaking up noticeably underfoot in the first Test last weekend, won 22-17 by the Lions.


“It’s a problem,” says Gold, now head coach of the United States but currently back on home terrain for a few weeks. “You always know it will be generally wet and heavy in the Mother City at this time of year, even if it’s not going to rain specifically in the match.

“I think there’s a solution, sitting in wait 10 minutes down the road: Newlands. An historic ground is sitting there, in incredibly good nick pitch-wise.

“You can’t have people there, so that’s not an issue and makes for much easier logistics in a swap-over -- so even if not the second Test, I’d certainly advocate moving the third to Newlands.

“There’s already been a double-header at Cape Town Stadium (when the Bulls played SA ‘A’ and the Stormers later tackled the tourists), plus the SA ‘A’ game against the Lions, then the first Test ... it’s going to have an impact, and that surface is increasingly not fit for purpose.”

Gold says it is clear the surface suits soccer better: the venue was erected for the 2010 World Cup, even though it has now also become new home to WP Rugby.

“You saw a number of outside backs slipping in the (first) Test match; the scrums were churning up the turf … nobody wants to see that as a determining factor in a Test series of this gravitas.

Play Video
39s

Lions told to prepare for Springbok backlash after victory in series opener

Warren Gatland has braced his British and Irish Lions for a backlash from South Africa after the tourists seized a 1-0 lead in the series by winning 22-17 at Cape Town Stadium. "They'll be hurt from this because they're an incredibly proud nation...

“What a way to potentially send off Newlands, once and for all: let’s have the final Lions Test there. I feel very strongly that the game should be transferred ... it doesn’t affect anybody.”

He says Newlands, which has had very sporadic use in recent months, is tailor-made for a match of such gravitas.

“It has a Desso (hybrid grass) surface, properly geared for rugby usage, whereas Cape Town Stadium has an ordinary grass deck.

“It would be terribly sad if there were winter downpours next week and, after the exertions of another Test there this weekend, the final Test is played in a sandpit.

“Don’t they sometimes say that common sense is not very common? Come on, let’s do it.”

The series was initially intended to have the closing two Tests played in Johannesburg, but a recent decision was taken to play it in entirety in Cape Town.

Gold has mixed views on whether sticking to “Plan A” - having the bulk of the Tests in highveld conditions – would have suited the home cause better.

“It is a tricky one … I don’t think the highveld would have worried these Lions, put it that way.

“Why I have some doubts, about what would usually be deemed a Bok advantage up there at altitude, is that the tourists seem to be matching us at the kicking game.

“The thing with the highveld is that our kicking game generally becomes more effective: the ball hangs in the air longer; your runners have more time to get to the ball ... and that space in the back field; the ball tends to go a little bit further.

“But the Lions have been handling our kicking game quite well so far. They’ve actually matched it.”

Gold concedes that purely based on tradition, the Boks may rue the absence of highveld Tests.

“Look, in theory, going into the Test series as originally planned, all the connoisseurs out of there would have been thinking that yes, the highveld is good for us - by and large, it always has been.

“The fact of the matter is that a lot of our players live up there and are naturally acclimatised.

“So touch and go, it might have been a better call for us ... but it’s not to be, and perhaps not really a major swing factor in current (circumstances) anyway.”

[Gumboot]

[assfly]

Who give a shit what Gary Gold thinks? Ffs

[Chilli]

Who give a shit what Gary Gold thinks? Ffs

And WP discard.

[Sandstorm]

Talking of sig bets

Rassie really has got himself into an online mess. We better all get together and pray for the boks to win or else Rassie is going to make his name gat

Ja.........................it is a bit childish.

I don't agree. Gatland got in Jonker's ear through the press before the first Test and several key decisions went the Lions way. If Rassie keeps quiet and it happens again, then he'll forever be tagged as naïve and out-manoeuvred by the Lion.

[Sandstorm]

Who give a shit what Gary Gold thinks? Ffs

OomFlounce called on them to use Newlands on Tuesday.

[Openside]

Have they banned that filthy Scot Hamish yet? Fucking thug.

Getting some in early ;)

Steady!!

[Openside]

I find it funny that you think kicking is part of a "game plan". Rugby has a clear blueprint. If you spend 80% of a game in your own half, you're going to be kicking for 80% of the game. No serious team runs out of their own half, it's suicide. That's why idiots think this or that coach stole his "game plan" from a previous coach. This is the way the game is played, we've been doing it long before Jake the snake came along. The only time a player would run out of their own half is if they clearly see that they can get in the oppositions half with support. In the modern era you don't run out of your own half through traffic, you kick and apply pressure. We lost because we foked up the execution in the second half, not because of a "game plan"

The "plan" was clear to me when they announce the team and it was based around scrums. In the first half you had de Klerk clear the ball quickly from the scrums, cause they knew they were up against a better scrum. In the second half he was taking his sweet time to get the ball out. The aim was to tire out the Lions forwards in the first half and capitalize when the reserves came on. Unfortunately that shit soccer pitch foked the plan up a bit.

THIS! FUCKING THIS!

I watched the Lions vs Bulls game over the weekend, and just for fun looked to see what happened every time the Lions tried to run the ball when they had possession between their 22m and halfway. EVERY SINGLE TIME, the Bulls forced a knock on and an attacking scrum, forced a turnover and scored a try, or forced a penalty and kicked for goal or the corner.

Zone 1: In your own 22m you kick long for territory. Bonus points if you kick it out. If you don't kick it out, you need to chase hard, because you want to keep them in Zone 3.
Zone 2: Between the 22m and 50m you kick it high and contestable, into Zone 3. You can take it slow. Wait for your chasers to set, and for the support runners / defensive line to set so they can move up in a straight line.
Zone 3: If you have possession or turn over possession in Zone 3, you play with tempo, because there is an opportunity to get points. Both World Cup Final tries were scored from Zone 3. If you don't have possession, this is where you want to pin your opposition for as long as possible and bash the shit out of them until you can turn over the ball. On the floor or after a knock-on when you have a dominant scrum.
Zone 4: You are in the red zone. You obviously try to score, and hope you don't butcher the chances, but here you grind it out. Tire out the opposition and lay siege to their line. Maybe even milk a card or two for repeated infringements.

It's simple, it's boring, it's attritional, but it's helluva effective if you execute it well. And just as well as it can work for you, it can also work as effectively against you.

We just couldn't camp in Zone 3 in the second half. Price kept kicking it into Zone 2, where we couldn't field the high ball, and the it was a series of Lions scums and penalties and lineouts in our half.
The could of times we managed to get into Zone 3 in the second half Faf scored our only try, and we almost scored another with 10 mins to go when the Lions played hot-potato with the ball after Kolbe contested a high kick.

Yes but EVERY kick should be either into touch,behind the defence, or contestable just kicking it back to opportunity pointless. (IMO)

[sorCrer]

Have they banned that filthy Scot Hamish yet? Fucking thug.

Getting some in early ;)

Steady!!

Do pay attention ;)

[Chilli]

The definitive thread.

Please post teams etc etc etc in OP.

[Chilli]

Does anyone have a clip of Curry lifting Ox at the scrum?

[boere wors]

Does anyone have a clip of Curry lifting Ox at the scrum?

Jaco Johan should have one

[Raggs]

Does anyone have a clip of Curry lifting Ox at the scrum?

Don't have that one, but I do have one showing Siya lifting the leg and causing the twist (you can tell because when he let's go it drops back down).

In addition, as someone who's experienced "flying" admittedly from tighthead. There's virtually no way that someone from the other team, whether prop or flanker, is lifting you off the ground, they're quite literally at the wrong end. It's your own flanker/lock driving you forwards and up, under your arse, when they should be conceding ground. You can see that Furlong is almost flying, but his locks coil up a bit more (not exactly going backwards, but enough to stop him from being lifted off his feet), then he recovers his body position well enough, but the bok lock/backrow keep driving their prop forwards and up, causing the lift.

[Tichtheid]

Does anyone have a clip of Curry lifting Ox at the scrum?

Don't have that one, but I do have one showing Siya lifting the leg and causing the twist (you can tell because when he let's go it drops back down).

In addition, as someone who's experienced "flying" admittedly from tighthead. There's virtually no way that someone from the other team, whether prop or flanker, is lifting you off the ground, they're quite literally at the wrong end. It's your own flanker/lock driving you forwards and up, under your arse, when they should be conceding ground. You can see that Furlong is almost flying, but his locks coil up a bit more (not exactly going backwards, but enough to stop him from being lifted off his feet), then he recovers his body position well enough, but the bok lock/backrow keep driving their prop forwards and up, causing the lift.

Good clip,
The loosehead is rarely sent up off the turf*, but they can be if they are under pressure from the opposition prop and the second row and flanker are doing just as you describe there.
You don't see the start of that scrum but if the prop has their feet too far forward and they start boring in on the angle that lifting off terra firma can happen

*or at least the loosehead is less prone to it than the tighthead due to the forces acting on him from in front and behind.

[Raggs]

It doesn't look like he's boring in from the longer clip I've seen.

It looks like the boks with the hit once the ball comes in, the lions locks coil up a bit more as both front rows start to stand, Furlong at least gets himself back into a half decent position, bok LH is going up and still getting driven forwards/up by his lock, and takes off as the lions scrum is the more stable and stops reversing, but the bok pack doesn't adjust for that.

[Tichtheid]

It doesn't look like he's boring in from the longer clip I've seen.

By the time it gets to the start of that clip the SA loosehead is almost 90 degrees off the line he should be at, Furlong is still in line with his lock and flanker

[Chilli]

Does anyone have a clip of Curry lifting Ox at the scrum?

Don't have that one, but I do have one showing Siya lifting the leg and causing the twist (you can tell because when he let's go it drops back down).

In addition, as someone who's experienced "flying" admittedly from tighthead. There's virtually no way that someone from the other team, whether prop or flanker, is lifting you off the ground, they're quite literally at the wrong end. It's your own flanker/lock driving you forwards and up, under your arse, when they should be conceding ground. You can see that Furlong is almost flying, but his locks coil up a bit more (not exactly going backwards, but enough to stop him from being lifted off his feet), then he recovers his body position well enough, but the bok lock/backrow keep driving their prop forwards and up, causing the lift.

You are right. It looks like Siya and the lock actually lift him.

[handyman]

Not sure how much fitness you can build in a week, but I hope the Boks can stay the full 80 this time. We were outplayed in the second half, but I feel it was partially due to the legs going.

May the best team win, but imagine the magnitude of next week's test if the Springbokke manages to win on Saturday. It will be epic and one for the ages.

[Sards]

Can we stop making excuses

[handyman]

Can we stop making excuses

No excuses mate, it is what it is and we just have to live with it. Can't deny the facts though.

At the end of the day, the result is all that matters, let's hope we can take it into a decider.

[Chilli]

We will win this test.

[Tichtheid]

We will win this test.

From the Lions selection it looks like they plan to play it tight for an hour and up the pace with Price and Daly for the last quarter, or at least that is my guess.

If they can dictate the match going that way then I think the Lions will win, it South Africa can bully the Lions up front then they could be far enough ahead to make little difference in that last period.

[handyman]

We will win this test.

Never under estimate a Bok team with his back against the wall.

[handyman]

We will win this test.

From the Lions selection it looks like they plan to play it tight for an hour and up the pace with Price and Daly for the last quarter, or at least that is my guess.

If they can dictate the match going that way then I think the Lions will win, it South Africa can bully the Lions up front then they could be far enough ahead to make little difference in that last period.

I think this time our bench are better equipped to deal with increased tempo in the second half. We shall see.

[Tichtheid]

We will win this test.

From the Lions selection it looks like they plan to play it tight for an hour and up the pace with Price and Daly for the last quarter, or at least that is my guess.

If they can dictate the match going that way then I think the Lions will win, it South Africa can bully the Lions up front then they could be far enough ahead to make little difference in that last period.

I think this time our bench are better equipped to deal with increased tempo in the second half. We shall see.

I only mentioned Price and Daly, but Sutherland, Owens, Sinkler, Faletau and Beirne are all handy in the loose, and quick.
Faletau especially is a wide ranging player.

My one concern is that there isn't a like for like replacement for Curry, though Beirne is a monster at the breakdown so if Curry has to leave the scene the Lions will still have that arrow in the quiver.

[handyman]

From the Lions selection it looks like they plan to play it tight for an hour and up the pace with Price and Daly for the last quarter, or at least that is my guess.

If they can dictate the match going that way then I think the Lions will win, it South Africa can bully the Lions up front then they could be far enough ahead to make little difference in that last period.

I think this time our bench are better equipped to deal with increased tempo in the second half. We shall see.

I only mentioned Price and Daly, but Sutherland, Owens, Sinkler, Faletau and Beirne are all handy in the loose, and quick.
Faletau especially is a wide ranging player.

My one concern is that there isn't a like for like replacement for Curry, though Beirne is a monster at the breakdown so if Curry has to leave the scene the Lions will still have that arrow in the quiver.

Yeah, we have Van Staden to counter, not a lot of caps yet, but a dynamo and good at competing.

[duke]

From the Lions selection it looks like they plan to play it tight for an hour and up the pace with Price and Daly for the last quarter, or at least that is my guess.

If they can dictate the match going that way then I think the Lions will win, it South Africa can bully the Lions up front then they could be far enough ahead to make little difference in that last period.

I think this time our bench are better equipped to deal with increased tempo in the second half. We shall see.

I only mentioned Price and Daly, but Sutherland, Owens, Sinkler, Faletau and Beirne are all handy in the loose, and quick.
Faletau especially is a wide ranging player.

My one concern is that there isn't a like for like replacement for Curry, though Beirne is a monster at the breakdown so if Curry has to leave the scene the Lions will still have that arrow in the quiver.

I'd have preferred to see Sutherland starting as I think Mako is better coming off the bench, we will have to wait and see on that.

[Tichtheid]

I'd have preferred to see Sutherland starting as I think Mako is better coming off the bench, we will have to wait and see on that.

I think Sutherland is a little hard done by, he was at the wrong end of a couple of dodgy scrum calls at the very end of the first half, it looked to like Big Trev had initiated the downward movement that led to the collapse both times, to my eyes at least.

SA really went after the Lions scrum in that first half, and everyone, me included, was expecting Vunipola to be annihilated by Malherbe in the second period, but he was rock solid, so fair play to him. I think he did enough to deserve the start.

I do follow your thinking, though, Vunipola has a good linking game, good hands - he even kicks well!

[assfly]

I see that Rassie has released a 1 hour video on his "reflections".

Don't have the time to watch the whole thing, but looks like it's going to shake things up a bit more.

Will someone please post a summary

[handyman]

I see that Rassie has released a 1 hour video on his "reflections".

Don't have the time to watch the whole thing, but looks like it's going to shake things up a bit more.

Will someone please post a summary

Isn't this Rassie just taking all the heat of the players?

[sorCrer]

I see that Rassie has released a 1 hour video on his "reflections".

Don't have the time to watch the whole thing, but looks like it's going to shake things up a bit more.

Will someone please post a summary

Hour long video of legitimate complaints although happens in every game stuff. Gatland and co should never have raised the Faf yellow or Jonker TMO issue.

Rassie doesn't look well IMHO.

[assfly]

Isn't this Rassie just taking all the heat of the players?

I thought he was doing a pretty good job before this video.

This is actually a bombshell, reading about what he has said.

[Raggs]

I see that Rassie has released a 1 hour video on his "reflections".

Don't have the time to watch the whole thing, but looks like it's going to shake things up a bit more.

Will someone please post a summary

OK, I'm not a neutral but it doesn't look good. Moaning about the complaints from the lions at first, then goes into decisions that went against the boks (even down to not straight lineouts, not just penalties etc). None of the media is looking at the team already, the Jaco Johan thing had them all looking away. This just looks like he's losing it a little bit to be honest.

[Margin__Walker]

I've never seen someone in his position undermining refereeing performance to this extent. It's pathetic. Any analyst can watch a game of rugby and make a video with lots of pretty yellow circles highlighting opposition indiscretions. The last thing someone in his position should be doing is waging a campaign like this.