The Springboks vs British & Irish Lions 2nd Test Thread

[Biffer]

Would you say the video is warranted? Is it as bad as some posters have made it out to be? I can only have a look tonight.

He's not hysterically blaming the ref for our loss. He's simply talks us through several incidents and gives us his thoughts. I knew the ref was bad, but I didn't know he was that bad.

If he was doing it to genuinely critique the refereeing, he'd question decisions given in both directions (and there were plenty). He doesn't. So to pretend it's some kind of genuine effort to address refereeing concerns is at best disingenuous, more likely bullshit.

[handyman]

Would you say the video is warranted? Is it as bad as some posters have made it out to be? I can only have a look tonight.

He's not hysterically blaming the ref for our loss. He's simply talks us through several incidents and gives us his thoughts. I knew the ref was bad, but I didn't know he was that bad.

Thanks. Will have a look tonight.

[Biffer]

I don't think there's anything to applaud. Everyone knows plenty of stuff is missed. He's being incredibly self-serving and deeply disingenuous.

Have you watched the video?

assfly about to go down the 'if you haven't watched the whole hour you can't criticise it' standard BS.

[sorCrer]

Coaches (and DORs) often comment on potential red card incidents. Not great, but it happens. A non neutral TMO is very much out of the ordinary for a test series and worthy of comment.

Hour long videos and burner Twitter accounts bitching about every single decision down to not straight throws, not so much.

You comfortable with Rassie's latest content then?

Not comfortable with it but it seems to be the way rugby (and society in general) is going. I did find the bit about the Kolbe tackle and not rolling away quite interesting especially seeing as it happens in front of Berry and is in a kickable position. IMO the Lions have been offside at rucks a lot on the whole tour and not called for it.

The complaining about Faf's yellow was quite vociferous and pretty unbecoming from the Lions camp. They have been very quiet since last weekend's game.

The Boks were offside a lot too and often in front of the kicker etc. If the refs are consistent then grand but it was the Lions who were the only side pinged being in front of the kicker on Saturday. If anyone could be arsed, you could go through every ruck and maul and pick up a penalty.

This could back fire quite spectacularly on Rassie if the refs start getting pedantic.

On the last tour of SA the Lions got utterly fucked by a gouge being picked up and not being red carded in the first minute of the game and I don't remember this level of whinging.

Apologies, for clarity, I said: 'IMO the Lions have been offside at rucks a lot on the whole tour'. It was highlighted often by the commentators in the opening couple of games. It's clearly a tactic and it's clearly working.

[Sards]

In other news it's been pissing down the whole day. Wonder how it's affected the pitch

[assfly]

assfly about to go down the 'if you haven't watched the whole hour you can't criticise it' standard BS.

It was more a response to Rassie being called disingenuous. If you watch the video, I don't think he comes across that way at all.

[Raggs]

Would you say the video is warranted? Is it as bad as some posters have made it out to be? I can only have a look tonight.

He's not hysterically blaming the ref for our loss. He's simply talks us through several incidents and gives us his thoughts. I knew the ref was bad, but I didn't know he was that bad.

If he was doing it to genuinely critique the refereeing, he'd question decisions given in both directions (and there were plenty). He doesn't. So to pretend it's some kind of genuine effort to address refereeing concerns is at best disingenuous, more likely bullshit.

Exactly this. If you're getting pedantic enough to call not straight lineouts (and it was a lot straighter than a lot that are let go), then you better be picking out all the bad decisions, not just the ones that went against you.

[sorCrer]

I don't think he wants to be there at all.

I think he wanted to step down after the RWC and he was talked into staying with the current arrangement.

I also think he still sick. He doesn't look 100% to me. Slight waxy look to his skin and bloated, dark eye sockets.

[Margin__Walker]

Assfly. I've now watched it all and it's a complete embarrassment. It panders to the worst kind of victim complex. Any team could make this video after any match.

Case in point. At 39.53 he's complaining about the Itoje turnover on the Lions line. Talking about Faf being on his feet at the same moment not mentioning the guy not on his feet. Motsert diving over the ruck like an exocet.

[handyman]

I don't think he wants to be there at all.

I think he wanted to step down after the RWC and he was talked into staying with the current arrangement.

I also think he still sick. He doesn't look 100% to me. Slight waxy look to his skin and bloated, dark eye sockets.

A post straight out of rinkhals' playbook

[JM2K6]

I don't think there's anything to applaud. Everyone knows plenty of stuff is missed. He's being incredibly self-serving and deeply disingenuous.

Have you watched the video?

Some of it. I've also read the descriptions of it.

[Lemoentjie]

Why are people claiming that Rassie has "lost it"? The video is very calm and analytical, he breaks down the issues very clearly (in his 2nd language, let's remember that too)

I don't know how people can say 'referees are only humans, they make mistakes' but then deny that Gatland's disgraceful pressuring of the TMO before the 1st test didn't impact Jonker's decision-making during the game.

WR need to step down hard. Give Gatland and Rassie fines, and stop any coaches from commenting on refereeing issues through the media.

[boere wors]

2 days ago Rassie said he doesnt talk about refs as it had backfired on him in the past. Which is exactly what is going to happen now. Strange move.

[tc27]

The more I think about this the more I think its crossed a threshhold beyond the usual shitbaggery in press conferences. A head coach/DoR long form whinge on Youtube using video highlights really is a new low for the sport.

[Slick]

The more I think about this the more I think its crossed a threshhold beyond the usual shitbaggery in press conferences. A head coach/DoR long form whinge on Youtube using video highlights really is a new low for the sport.

I have to agree. Any moral high ground we liked to have about refs is well gone now

[Blake]

I feel like anyone who thinks Rassie is making really good points here is going to have their mind blown by anyone who goes through a replay of a rugby match looking for shit that wasn't picked up or was incorrectly called

I agree, I'm sure Gatland could do the same. Boks weren't angels.

I applaud Rassie for raising these issues, but for the sake of our game I don't think it should be done in the public domain like this.

While I’m not a fan of it, what do you think the narrative would be leading into the test if Rassie wasn’t baiting all the rugby media in the world with his antics?

Questions tactics, questioning selections, dumping on Nienaber as being out of his depth, blah blah blah.

Pretty sure he is just taking the piss in an effort to keep the team isolated from the media and focused on staying in the series.

Masterful trolling and everybody is eating it up.

[Sards]

I feel like anyone who thinks Rassie is making really good points here is going to have their mind blown by anyone who goes through a replay of a rugby match looking for shit that wasn't picked up or was incorrectly called

I agree, I'm sure Gatland could do the same. Boks weren't angels.

I applaud Rassie for raising these issues, but for the sake of our game I don't think it should be done in the public domain like this.

While I’m not a fan of it, what do you think the narrative would be leading into the test if Rassie wasn’t baiting all the rugby media in the world with his antics?

Questions tactics, questioning selections, dumping on Nienaber as being out of his depth, blah blah blah.

Pretty sure he is just taking the piss in an effort to keep the team isolated from the media and focused on staying in the series.

Masterful trolling and everybody is eating it up.

He's got loads of support and praise on social media.

If the boks lose this weekend it's going to come back and bite him in the arse. He has gone all in. I think its a huge risk.

[Blake]

We’re going to win this weekend boet.

Why do you think I took that sig bet with you?

[Biffer]

I feel like anyone who thinks Rassie is making really good points here is going to have their mind blown by anyone who goes through a replay of a rugby match looking for shit that wasn't picked up or was incorrectly called

I agree, I'm sure Gatland could do the same. Boks weren't angels.

I applaud Rassie for raising these issues, but for the sake of our game I don't think it should be done in the public domain like this.

While I’m not a fan of it, what do you think the narrative would be leading into the test if Rassie wasn’t baiting all the rugby media in the world with his antics?

Questions tactics, questioning selections, dumping on Nienaber as being out of his depth, blah blah blah.

Pretty sure he is just taking the piss in an effort to keep the team isolated from the media and focused on staying in the series.

Masterful trolling and everybody is eating it up.

But he’s set a shitty narrative that just makes him look like a dick.

If he’d concentrated on one thing, the attitude of the ref to Kolisi, he would have had loads of support, it’d still set the agenda for the week and would pile pressure on the ref while making him look like the good guy.

[sorCrer]

I agree, I'm sure Gatland could do the same. Boks weren't angels.

I applaud Rassie for raising these issues, but for the sake of our game I don't think it should be done in the public domain like this.

While I’m not a fan of it, what do you think the narrative would be leading into the test if Rassie wasn’t baiting all the rugby media in the world with his antics?

Questions tactics, questioning selections, dumping on Nienaber as being out of his depth, blah blah blah.

Pretty sure he is just taking the piss in an effort to keep the team isolated from the media and focused on staying in the series.

Masterful trolling and everybody is eating it up.

But he’s set a shitty narrative that just makes him look like a dick.

If he’d concentrated on one thing, the attitude of the ref to Kolisi, he would have had loads of support, it’d still set the agenda for the week and would pile pressure on the ref while making him look like the good guy.

TBF, he has a point about World Rugby refusing to provide clarity on issues until Tuesday and refusing to meet with him before then. The administrators of the game have a due responsibility too. Who will ever forget Will Carlings "57 old farts" description of the RFU in 95?

[Slick]

I feel like anyone who thinks Rassie is making really good points here is going to have their mind blown by anyone who goes through a replay of a rugby match looking for shit that wasn't picked up or was incorrectly called

I agree, I'm sure Gatland could do the same. Boks weren't angels.

I applaud Rassie for raising these issues, but for the sake of our game I don't think it should be done in the public domain like this.

While I’m not a fan of it, what do you think the narrative would be leading into the test if Rassie wasn’t baiting all the rugby media in the world with his antics?

Questions tactics, questioning selections, dumping on Nienaber as being out of his depth, blah blah blah.

Pretty sure he is just taking the piss in an effort to keep the team isolated from the media and focused on staying in the series.

Masterful trolling and everybody is eating it up.

Yeah, masterful trolling of an individual in order to try and win a game of rugby. Completely undermining a referee and potentially ruining his career to try and win a game of rugby.

Maybe it’s an old fashioned point of view but it’s miles from why I fell in love with rugby. It’s a shite state of affairs and anyone with an interest in the game should be condemning it.

If it was Gatland or Townsend or anyone else I’d still be angry about it, and you should be too.

[Sards]

We’re going to win this weekend boet.

Why do you think I took that sig bet with you?

Oh...I forgot.

Good luck

[sorCrer]

Completely undermining a referee and potentially ruining his career to try and win a game of rugby....
If it was Gatland

It was Gatland...just a week ago.

[Blake]

Yeah, masterful trolling of an individual in order to try and win a game of rugby. Completely undermining a referee and potentially ruining his career to try and win a game of rugby.

Maybe it’s an old fashioned point of view but it’s miles from why I fell in love with rugby. It’s a shite state of affairs and anyone with an interest in the game should be condemning it.

If it was Gatland or Townsend or anyone else I’d still be angry about it, and you should be too.

I’m not a massive fan of shitposting either, but if anything it’s sparked some interest in the tour.

A week ago it was all about what a farce te tour has been, massive waste of time etc. Now everybody is talking about this weekend’s match and Rassie has managed to fire up the South African fans, the Lions fans, and the media, while keeping the spotlight off of Nienaber and the Boks allowing them to regroup and focus and also not really giving Gatland any soundbites he can use to fire up the Lions.

[Raggs]

Yeah, masterful trolling of an individual in order to try and win a game of rugby. Completely undermining a referee and potentially ruining his career to try and win a game of rugby.

Maybe it’s an old fashioned point of view but it’s miles from why I fell in love with rugby. It’s a shite state of affairs and anyone with an interest in the game should be condemning it.

If it was Gatland or Townsend or anyone else I’d still be angry about it, and you should be too.

I’m not a massive fan of shitposting either, but if anything it’s sparked some interest in the tour.

A week ago it was all about what a farce te tour has been, massive waste of time etc. Now everybody is talking about this weekend’s match and Rassie has managed to fire up the South African fans, the Lions fans, and the media, while keeping the spotlight off of Nienaber and the Boks allowing them to regroup and focus and also not really giving Gatland any soundbites he can use to fire up the Lions.

You don't think an hour long video pointing out dozens of ways that the lions didn't deserve to win, because the ref was favouring them so much, isn't something he can use?

[Lemoentjie]

Completely undermining a referee and potentially ruining his career to try and win a game of rugby....
If it was Gatland

It was Gatland...just a week ago.

This. Gatland knew his statements would put pressure on Jonker. And it clearly worked, you could tell Jonker was nervous during the game.

[Blake]

You don't think an hour long video pointing out dozens of ways that the lions didn't deserve to win, because the ref was favouring them so much, isn't something he can use?

Going after the referee is less useful to Gatland than Rassie going after one of the Lions players. The rugby "journalists" are always trying to get the coaches or players to say something about the opposition players.

If they started asking Rassie and Jacques about "how are you going to nullify Itoje?" or "you didn't get the same dominance in the scrum, what are you going to do in the second test?", even the most diplomatic answer would be twisted into a soundbite to galvanise the Lions even more.

It's not the type of gamesmanship I enjoy personally, but it's just some gamesmanship nonetheless IMO.

Somehow I can't see all these outraged Lions fans, players and pudits that are clutching pearls now complaining in the same way if Lions lose the second test with a couple of marginal calls and Gatland has a big moan after the fact.

[Raggs]

You don't think an hour long video pointing out dozens of ways that the lions didn't deserve to win, because the ref was favouring them so much, isn't something he can use?

Going after the referee is less useful to Gatland than Rassie going after one of the Lions players. The rugby "journalists" are always trying to get the coaches or players to say something about the opposition players.

If they started asking Rassie and Jacques about "how are you going to nullify Itoje?" or "you didn't get the same dominance in the scrum, what are you going to do in the second test?", even the most diplomatic answer would be twisted into a soundbite to galvanise the Lions even more.

It's not the type of gamesmanship I enjoy personally, but it's just some gamesmanship nonetheless IMO.

Somehow I can't see all these outraged Lions fans, players and pudits that are clutching pearls now complaining in the same way if Lions lose the second test with a couple of marginal calls and Gatland has a big moan after the fact.

If Gatland has a moan in the press interview after, or in other media interviews, I'll be a bit upset.

If he goes and makes an hour long edited video pointing out things as banal as slightly not straight lineouts, I'd hope he'll never be associated with the Lions again.

[Slick]

Completely undermining a referee and potentially ruining his career to try and win a game of rugby....
If it was Gatland

It was Gatland...just a week ago.

This. Gatland knew his statements would put pressure on Jonker. And it clearly worked, you could tell Jonker was nervous during the game.

I agree. But it was a complaint to WR about a non neutral ref, not a sustained personal attack over a week ending with a fucking hour long video.

It’s awful stuff and I don’t think any rugby supporter should be defending it

[Sards]

Yeah, masterful trolling of an individual in order to try and win a game of rugby. Completely undermining a referee and potentially ruining his career to try and win a game of rugby.

Maybe it’s an old fashioned point of view but it’s miles from why I fell in love with rugby. It’s a shite state of affairs and anyone with an interest in the game should be condemning it.

If it was Gatland or Townsend or anyone else I’d still be angry about it, and you should be too.

I’m not a massive fan of shitposting either, but if anything it’s sparked some interest in the tour.

A week ago it was all about what a farce te tour has been, massive waste of time etc. Now everybody is talking about this weekend’s match and Rassie has managed to fire up the South African fans, the Lions fans, and the media, while keeping the spotlight off of Nienaber and the Boks allowing them to regroup and focus and also not really giving Gatland any soundbites he can use to fire up the Lions.

Only reason anyone was losing interest was because of a shit system where boks couldn't play for their home unions

[Blake]

I agree. But it was a complaint to WR about a non neutral ref, not a sustained personal attack over a week ending with a fucking hour long video.

The original tweets were having the exact effect he was hoping for, so he's doubling down on it, leaving Nienaber and the Boks to prepare in peace.

[Sards]

You don't think an hour long video pointing out dozens of ways that the lions didn't deserve to win, because the ref was favouring them so much, isn't something he can use?

Going after the referee is less useful to Gatland than Rassie going after one of the Lions players. The rugby "journalists" are always trying to get the coaches or players to say something about the opposition players.

If they started asking Rassie and Jacques about "how are you going to nullify Itoje?" or "you didn't get the same dominance in the scrum, what are you going to do in the second test?", even the most diplomatic answer would be twisted into a soundbite to galvanise the Lions even more.

It's not the type of gamesmanship I enjoy personally, but it's just some gamesmanship nonetheless IMO.

Somehow I can't see all these outraged Lions fans, players and pudits that are clutching pearls now complaining in the same way if Lions lose the second test with a couple of marginal calls and Gatland has a big moan after the fact.

I don't like whiners....youve got a job to do, do it..
Stop blaming everyone else.
and it doesn't make it right if Gatland did it the week before.

[_Os_]

It's in the running for greatest documentary film of the 21st century.

[Blake]

I don't like whiners....and it doesn't make it right if Gatland did it the week before.

For somebody that doesn't like whiners you sure as hell whine a lot.

[Sards]

I don't like whiners....and it doesn't make it right if Gatland did it the week before.

For somebody that doesn't like whiners you sure as hell whine a lot.

Have you listened to South Africans this past week. No. We couldn't have lost because we are RWC champions. It's the ref. And we need to punish the vokker for not letting us win. And we are going to make as much noise as possible in the process to make sure that the IRB knows not to mess with us or we will throw a tantrum of note.

Not cool

[Blake]

I don't like whiners....and it doesn't make it right if Gatland did it the week before.

For somebody that doesn't like whiners you sure as hell whine a lot.

Have you listened to South Africans this past week. No. We couldn't have lost because we are RWC champions. It's the ref. And we need to punish the vokker for not letting us win. And we are going to make as much noise as possible in the process to make sure that the IRB knows not to mess with us or we will throw a tantrum of note.

Not cool

Moan moan moan...

[Sards]

For somebody that doesn't like whiners you sure as hell whine a lot.

Have you listened to South Africans this past week. No. We couldn't have lost because we are RWC champions. It's the ref. And we need to punish the vokker for not letting us win. And we are going to make as much noise as possible in the process to make sure that the IRB knows not to mess with us or we will throw a tantrum of note.

Not cool

Moan moan moan...

Whatever

[Slick]

I agree. But it was a complaint to WR about a non neutral ref, not a sustained personal attack over a week ending with a fucking hour long video.

The original tweets were having the exact effect he was hoping for, so he's doubling down on it, leaving Nienaber and the Boks to prepare in peace.

So you keep saying

[Enzedder]

Would you say the video is warranted? Is it as bad as some posters have made it out to be? I can only have a look tonight.

He's not hysterically blaming the ref for our loss. He's simply talks us through several incidents and gives us his thoughts. I knew the ref was bad, but I didn't know he was that bad.

If he was doing it to genuinely critique the refereeing, he'd question decisions given in both directions (and there were plenty). He doesn't. So to pretend it's some kind of genuine effort to address refereeing concerns is at best disingenuous, more likely bullshit.

Time for the refs to call a strike (an hour before kickoff) until World Rugby slap a ban on coaches doing this shit.

[mos_eisely_]

Also an interesting read