I tried 5 minutes, but had to stop. With only one working eye I can't risk retinal burn in
The Official Cricket Thread
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OomStruisbaai
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Aus 46/6 against Windies
No one watching the test today?
Don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed watching a bowler as much as Bumrah today, individual and superb. Seems to be almost a composite of lots of different types of bowlers.
I’m embarrassed at being the only person in the world, and potentially the known universe, not to have noticed Roots squad number before… made me giggle
Don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed watching a bowler as much as Bumrah today, individual and superb. Seems to be almost a composite of lots of different types of bowlers.
I’m embarrassed at being the only person in the world, and potentially the known universe, not to have noticed Roots squad number before… made me giggle
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
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ScarfaceClaw
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I don’t know whether it was the bowling, the lack of technique or application from the batters but there just seemed to be an utter apathy from most of the team. Curran had a swing at the end to nudge the score along but the rest (Root 66 - how can you have not see that! - aside) just didn’t seem to care enough to try.Slick wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:32 pm No one watching the test today?
Don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed watching a bowler as much as Bumrah today, individual and superb. Seems to be almost a composite of lots of different types of bowlers.
I’m embarrassed at being the only person in the world, and potentially the known universe, not to have noticed Roots squad number before… made me giggle
Most of them haven't played red ball cricket in ages and everything is about the shorter formats now. They're a weird mishmash of players with bizarre techniques, rank newbies, and experienced pros with major flaws.ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:47 pmI don’t know whether it was the bowling, the lack of technique or application from the batters but there just seemed to be an utter apathy from most of the team. Curran had a swing at the end to nudge the score along but the rest (Root 66 - how can you have not see that! - aside) just didn’t seem to care enough to try.Slick wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:32 pm No one watching the test today?
Don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed watching a bowler as much as Bumrah today, individual and superb. Seems to be almost a composite of lots of different types of bowlers.
I’m embarrassed at being the only person in the world, and potentially the known universe, not to have noticed Roots squad number before… made me giggle
That’s an indictment of the season’s structure, selling out for hit and giggle
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ScarfaceClaw
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Saw something on BBC earlier where some of the batters have faced 11 balls in red ball cricket since the last test. Most of them are sitting on the bench for the hundred.
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Hal Jordan
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England are longer a 90s tribute act, this team has taken the influence and put out a whole new type of shiteness of its own.
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inactionman
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It's not all doom and gloom.
At least we've still got 35 year old Broady and 39 year old Jimmy, eh?
At least we've still got 35 year old Broady and 39 year old Jimmy, eh?
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Paddington Bear
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Possible to overstate the end of test cricket, England have been shite before.
A few points for me:
1) NZ have shown the way in marrying up success in both formats. Watch say Williamson compared to Bairstow/Buttler etc. He plays the ball late and close to his body. Largely classical shots in both formats. Successful in both. Bairstow in fairness worked hard yesterday but Buttler looked all at sea then prodded at one in a manner that probably gets you four against a white ball.
The point here is that England have prioritised white ball cricket, which is fine, but it doesn't necessarily have to lead to the neglect of red ball cricket. Good technique works in both.
2) The Hundred, love it or hate it, is showing what a good product on field English domestic cricket can be when you rationalise the teams. Same principle will have to be applied to long form cricket at some point. I love watching Middlesex whilst 'working from home' with a few hundred like minded saddos at Merchant Taylors School, but most Premier League club sides would give them a run for their money. An 8 division Premiership is long overdue. Even if the test players aren't regularly playing in it, the standard will rise for everyone else playing in it.
Put simply, you can put the Champ in the middle of the season, you can encourage the test players to get involved, you can prioritise it over white ball cricket but the standard is still crap. England does not produce 18 teams worth of pro cricketers.
3) English 'elite' cricket, from the private schools and junior county set ups upwards does not prioritise shot selection. The go to of coaches and analysts at all levels I hear is 'they need to hit some balls'. At uni we'd train at the Rose Bowl after Hampshire would, they'd spend an hour absolutely creaming cover drives off a bowling machine. Great, but what happens when the pitch is doing a bit and the ball is swinging?
Any player on any pathway is encouraged to play a lot of shots and to look good doing so. People will deny this but it is absolutely true. If you get out it's because the umpires/the pitch/the sport is shit/fucked. There is no discouragement from playing rash shots. This has been the case for 10 years plus and have to say this is the natural conclusion.
A few points for me:
1) NZ have shown the way in marrying up success in both formats. Watch say Williamson compared to Bairstow/Buttler etc. He plays the ball late and close to his body. Largely classical shots in both formats. Successful in both. Bairstow in fairness worked hard yesterday but Buttler looked all at sea then prodded at one in a manner that probably gets you four against a white ball.
The point here is that England have prioritised white ball cricket, which is fine, but it doesn't necessarily have to lead to the neglect of red ball cricket. Good technique works in both.
2) The Hundred, love it or hate it, is showing what a good product on field English domestic cricket can be when you rationalise the teams. Same principle will have to be applied to long form cricket at some point. I love watching Middlesex whilst 'working from home' with a few hundred like minded saddos at Merchant Taylors School, but most Premier League club sides would give them a run for their money. An 8 division Premiership is long overdue. Even if the test players aren't regularly playing in it, the standard will rise for everyone else playing in it.
Put simply, you can put the Champ in the middle of the season, you can encourage the test players to get involved, you can prioritise it over white ball cricket but the standard is still crap. England does not produce 18 teams worth of pro cricketers.
3) English 'elite' cricket, from the private schools and junior county set ups upwards does not prioritise shot selection. The go to of coaches and analysts at all levels I hear is 'they need to hit some balls'. At uni we'd train at the Rose Bowl after Hampshire would, they'd spend an hour absolutely creaming cover drives off a bowling machine. Great, but what happens when the pitch is doing a bit and the ball is swinging?
Any player on any pathway is encouraged to play a lot of shots and to look good doing so. People will deny this but it is absolutely true. If you get out it's because the umpires/the pitch/the sport is shit/fucked. There is no discouragement from playing rash shots. This has been the case for 10 years plus and have to say this is the natural conclusion.
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
Hmm. Buttler's actually shown pretty good technique in Test cricket in the last few years. His problem is simple: he's completely out of form. Dunno if you watched his last showing for England in the T20s, he couldn't buy a run.
The Hundred's been pretty shit so far IMO - "exciting" but some godawful play and a fair number of one-sided dross. More importantly it's going to fuck the counties entirely and ensures England's Test cricketers (and future Test cricketers) barely hit a red ball in anger in the core part of the season, while also binning off the 50-over format. The CC standard was good enough to produce some bloody good players in very recent history.
Isn't the whole point of the repetitive work with the bowling machine to groove shots so they come naturally? For as long as I've paid attention to cricket, analysts at all levels have remarked upon players needing to feel bat on ball, to hit a few runs in order to get back into the swing of things. I don't think that's a negative, and I don't think it's actually a counter-argument to what's happening now - if these players had been hitting a lot of balls in real first-class matches, maybe they'd be more comfortable.
The Hundred's been pretty shit so far IMO - "exciting" but some godawful play and a fair number of one-sided dross. More importantly it's going to fuck the counties entirely and ensures England's Test cricketers (and future Test cricketers) barely hit a red ball in anger in the core part of the season, while also binning off the 50-over format. The CC standard was good enough to produce some bloody good players in very recent history.
Isn't the whole point of the repetitive work with the bowling machine to groove shots so they come naturally? For as long as I've paid attention to cricket, analysts at all levels have remarked upon players needing to feel bat on ball, to hit a few runs in order to get back into the swing of things. I don't think that's a negative, and I don't think it's actually a counter-argument to what's happening now - if these players had been hitting a lot of balls in real first-class matches, maybe they'd be more comfortable.
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Paddington Bear
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Not saying there's no place for hitting balls, but that is basically the sum of what is expected of pathway players. Shot selection is not prioritised, talked about or rewarded in English cricket. It's just a fact - watch any game from club Premier Leagues up.
Re: The Hundred we'll have to disagree. I'm surprised at myself how much I've enjoyed it and viewing figures suggest I'm not alone.
Re: The Hundred we'll have to disagree. I'm surprised at myself how much I've enjoyed it and viewing figures suggest I'm not alone.
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
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ScarfaceClaw
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England are seemingly terrible at using their reviews. There’s the second one lost in this innings.
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Paddington Bear
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Just to pick up on a couple of CC points as well:
There needs to be a recognition of what English domestic cricket can achieve in the context of the slow decline of cricket from being a national game to a reasonably popular niche sport. When this started is open to debate (state school cricket started having the axe taken to it in the 80s, the 90s saw cricket in the absolute doldrums on all fronts, 05 onto Sky exacerbated rather than created this issue IMHO) but we're now at the point where it can't be pretended away. The Lord Maclaurin reforms were in general much needed and professionalised a pretty terrible structure, which hid the rot setting in lower down for some time.
As I say, we're now at the end of that. The reforms at the top end of club cricket failed on their own terms which has required counties to keep academies and 2nd XIs they can't afford, the tv money has helped professionalise the top end of cricket but has taken an axe to player numbers which reduces the options available to produce the 300 or so needed pros.
The pro game is increasingly reliant on the public schools which have their own priorities and pressures, and the whole thing is kept going by a tv deal that may not last.
The CC was helpful to an extent in the success of England over probably a decade, but it is important to caveat this with
1) There was a two division format which there now isn't
2) A number of England's star players of the period learned their cricket abroad
3) England rose as others declined. Doesn't detract from the success, but no point pretending Australia/Pakistan/West Indies were as strong as they were before this period.
There needs to be a recognition of what English domestic cricket can achieve in the context of the slow decline of cricket from being a national game to a reasonably popular niche sport. When this started is open to debate (state school cricket started having the axe taken to it in the 80s, the 90s saw cricket in the absolute doldrums on all fronts, 05 onto Sky exacerbated rather than created this issue IMHO) but we're now at the point where it can't be pretended away. The Lord Maclaurin reforms were in general much needed and professionalised a pretty terrible structure, which hid the rot setting in lower down for some time.
As I say, we're now at the end of that. The reforms at the top end of club cricket failed on their own terms which has required counties to keep academies and 2nd XIs they can't afford, the tv money has helped professionalise the top end of cricket but has taken an axe to player numbers which reduces the options available to produce the 300 or so needed pros.
The pro game is increasingly reliant on the public schools which have their own priorities and pressures, and the whole thing is kept going by a tv deal that may not last.
The CC was helpful to an extent in the success of England over probably a decade, but it is important to caveat this with
1) There was a two division format which there now isn't
2) A number of England's star players of the period learned their cricket abroad
3) England rose as others declined. Doesn't detract from the success, but no point pretending Australia/Pakistan/West Indies were as strong as they were before this period.
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
Hang on, the CC being two divisions has only very, very recently changed - long after England's current problems set in.
This is the worst England batting lineup in a very long time. Go back to 2015. Who were England's batsmen? Cook, Root, Bairstow, Ballance, Bell, Buttler, Lyth, Ali, Stokes all featured. How many of them learned their trade overseas? Er, one. Go back to 2020 - Trott and KP in there, but also Strauss, Prior, Collingwood, Bresnan. KP was a spinner when he came to county cricket.
It's really not a coincidence that as soon as the county championship was moved to the margins of the season, we started struggling to produce Test batsmen.
This is the worst England batting lineup in a very long time. Go back to 2015. Who were England's batsmen? Cook, Root, Bairstow, Ballance, Bell, Buttler, Lyth, Ali, Stokes all featured. How many of them learned their trade overseas? Er, one. Go back to 2020 - Trott and KP in there, but also Strauss, Prior, Collingwood, Bresnan. KP was a spinner when he came to county cricket.
It's really not a coincidence that as soon as the county championship was moved to the margins of the season, we started struggling to produce Test batsmen.
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Paddington Bear
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It's a factor but will not be a magic bullet
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
Dobell with another great article on this: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/engl ... em-1272148
It is the biggest factor. How can it not be?
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Paddington Bear
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Because it doesn't change the fact that the standard is woeful in a lot of the games, giving no realistic practice for a test player. England can no longer produce and sustain 18 teams worth of pro cricketers. Also doesn't account for where you fill the financial hole of not hosting the marquee fixtures in better weather, so within 5 years we'll end up back where we are.
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
The standard is currently woeful because of when the matches are played! The system currently produces players who swing at everything because they know they will not be able to defend against a ridiculously swinging and seaming attack on practically every pitch, and there's no logic or consistency to the season.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:10 amBecause it doesn't change the fact that the standard is woeful in a lot of the games, giving no realistic practice for a test player. England can no longer produce and sustain 18 teams worth of pro cricketers. Also doesn't account for where you fill the financial hole of not hosting the marquee fixtures in better weather, so within 5 years we'll end up back where we are.
There's always been a few too many counties but it simply doesn't matter - it's a sideshow. The problem is that you cannot produce Test batsmen if you're never, ever playing under anything approaching Test match conditions, when the actual format of the game is ignored for long periods of time, and when the demands on modern batsmen are antithetical to honing a Test-standard technique. I can understand the concept of a lower standard not being great practice for a Test player, but there's plenty of quality bowlers in county cricket - including high quality overseas pros - but the problem is here that we're not developing those Test players to begin with. We're developing players who have the technique, application, and mentality that has been produced by a system that has dumped long-form cricket to the margins.
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inactionman
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Hal Jordan
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inactionman
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I'm sure I recall Freddie trashing his knee somewhere on the subcontinent after bowling for what felt a like a week on a dry featherbed.
Sadly recurring theme.
I'm not entirely sure what to do about this in general from a player and coach perspective - can't blame captain, what's he supposed to do, throw the ball to the part-timers during a test match? Burn out Anderson (who typically puts in a shift in any case)? Can understand the likes of Mitchell Johnson used in short bursts, not sure that works in all contexts. Not sure the rotation selection policy has worked marvellously either (yes, yes, Silverwood could pick a spinner occasionally)
The answer is in sorting the bugger's muddle of competitions, but I'm not holding breath.
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inactionman
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Root was committing the cardinal sin of treating his as a stock long-spell bowler and his bowler most likely to make something happen, the go-to to change things up. So he barely got a rest during innings.inactionman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:22 pmI'm sure I recall Freddie trashing his knee somewhere on the subcontinent after bowling for what felt a like a week on a dry featherbed.
Sadly recurring theme.
I'm not entirely sure what to do about this in general from a player and coach perspective - can't blame captain, what's he supposed to do, throw the ball to the part-timers during a test match? Burn out Anderson (who typically puts in a shift in any case)? Can understand the likes of Mitchell Johnson used in short bursts, not sure that works in all contexts. Not sure the rotation selection policy has worked marvellously either (yes, yes, Silverwood could pick a spinner occasionally)
The answer is in sorting the bugger's muddle of competitions, but I'm not holding breath.
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Paddington Bear
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I think everyone called Root overbowling Archer, astonished it was allowed to happen.
The funny thing about our batting is that our bowling is so strong they'd only need 275 or so to make a serious game.
The funny thing about our batting is that our bowling is so strong they'd only need 275 or so to make a serious game.
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
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Paddington Bear
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Petty and silly. Test cricket doesn't help itself.
That said, appears to be raining now.
Going tomorrow and looks like heavy rain - anyone know of anything else decent to see in Nottingham?
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
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inactionman
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Dinosaur at Wollaton ParkPaddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:50 pmPetty and silly. Test cricket doesn't help itself.
That said, appears to be raining now.
Going tomorrow and looks like heavy rain - anyone know of anything else decent to see in Nottingham?