The Brexit Thread

[tabascoboy]

Meanwhile...

Four more small energy firms could go bust next week

At least four of the smaller UK energy companies are expected to go bust next week amid soaring wholesale gas prices. Industry sources have told the BBC that four firms have asked larger players to bid to take over the supply to one million customers. The price rise has left some companies unable to provide their customers with the energy they have paid for.

Not only that but co-incidentally a fire has left us without a link to imported electricity from France so that we've now had to fire up two stand-by coal power plants to compensate for the loss. Now I don't put all of this necessarily down to Brexit at all (and no doubt the COVID pandemic is no help), but reliance on imported energy is the kind of issue that we should have been addressing for years rather than getting sidelined by Brexit. I don't know anything of the Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng - which is I hope a good sign that he's not tainted by sleaze and cronyism and petty nationalistic cock-waving and that he can get on the case. Let's hope that our influence on Gazprom hasn't been weakened yet further by no longer being a part of the EU though...

[Tichtheid]

The UK weights and measures system is stupid, we never fully adopted the metric system, so people of my generation are comfortable with grams and kilos but count body weight in stones, height in feet and inches, but measure for building in m, cm and mm, oh and there’s another thing, we used to buy timber in metric feet (300mm) units.

Counting in tens and hundreds is far easier than 3s 12s 14s and 16s, mm are far easier to read than 8ths and 16ths.

Oh and whilst I’m at it, a cubic meter of water has mass of one tonne, a tonne = a thousand kg, 1 litre of water = 1kg. 1ml has mass of 1 gram.

What could be simpler?

I can’t be arsed doing the same for pennyweights ounces pounds stones tons

I worked on the Gorilla V jackup, which was designed in Aberdeen and built in Brownsville, Texas.

All drawings had to be converted to feet and inches before being sent over to the States.

There’s another thing, the US and UK have different measurements for hundred weights and tons

Oh and they don’t use stones

[Biffer]

The UK weights and measures system is stupid, we never fully adopted the metric system, so people of my generation are comfortable with grams and kilos but count body weight in stones, height in feet and inches, but measure for building in m, cm and mm, oh and there’s another thing, we used to buy timber in metric feet (300mm) units.

Counting in tens and hundreds is far easier than 3s 12s 14s and 16s, mm are far easier to read than 8ths and 16ths.

Oh and whilst I’m at it, a cubic meter of water has mass of one tonne, a tonne = a thousand kg, 1 litre of water = 1kg. 1ml has mass of 1 gram.

What could be simpler?

I can’t be arsed doing the same for pennyweights ounces pounds stones tons

I worked on the Gorilla V jackup, which was designed in Aberdeen and built in Brownsville, Texas.

All drawings had to be converted to feet and inches before being sent over to the States.

There’s another thing, the US and UK have different measurements for hundred weights and tons

Oh and they don’t use stones

And pints. US pint is 16fl ozs, UK is 20.

But to make it even more confusing, the US fluid ounce is marginally bigger than the UK fluid ounce.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Do young people like school kids still use stones and feet for weight and height in the UK?

In their 20s perhaps, and especially if talking to old people, below 20s it'd be unusual, my eldest is 13 and she'd just assume someone was a luddite if they used imperial other than pints and look at them with derision (part of the derision might be to cover she doesn't even know imperial measurements beyond pints and knowing approx 6ft is an average height for men).

And say the normal kitchen scales we use allow one to set weights in ounces, grams, ml, fl oz and the like, and if she's making pound cake she will still use the grams setting and just work off 454g. Which is to say even when making pound cake it simply wouldn't occur to her to use pounds, it's just not a thing to her

[Calculon]

Thanks for the answer. I would share her derision, and for the same reason

[fishfoodie]

Do young people like school kids still use stones and feet for weight and height in the UK?

In their 20s perhaps, and especially if talking to old people, below 20s it'd be unusual, my eldest is 13 and she'd just assume someone was a luddite if they used imperial other than pints and look at them with derision (part of the derision might be to cover she doesn't even know imperial measurements beyond pints and knowing approx 6ft is an average height for men).

And say the normal kitchen scales we use allow one to set weights in ounces, grams, ml, fl oz and the like, and if she's making pound cake she will still use the grams setting and just work off 454g. Which is to say even when making pound cake it simply wouldn't occur to her to use pounds, it's just not a thing to her

Derision is the default setting for 13 year olds; regardless of the topic

[FalseBayFC]

Artisans in the US work mainly in inches and feet don't they? I watch a lot of woodworking videos on YT and they're always on about 1/16 of an inch and so forth. Do Brits also do that? What side of the tape measure do you guys use?

[tabascoboy]

Not an artisan or craftsman nor much of a DIYer but much prefer to use mm / cm / m. That said my house is old enough that doors, windows, rooms were plainly built to measurements of feet and inches, so you do end up with finding "odd" measurements like 914 mm

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Do young people like school kids still use stones and feet for weight and height in the UK?

In their 20s perhaps, and especially if talking to old people, below 20s it'd be unusual, my eldest is 13 and she'd just assume someone was a luddite if they used imperial other than pints and look at them with derision (part of the derision might be to cover she doesn't even know imperial measurements beyond pints and knowing approx 6ft is an average height for men).

And say the normal kitchen scales we use allow one to set weights in ounces, grams, ml, fl oz and the like, and if she's making pound cake she will still use the grams setting and just work off 454g. Which is to say even when making pound cake it simply wouldn't occur to her to use pounds, it's just not a thing to her

Derision is the default setting for 13 year olds; regardless of the topic

Endearingly not that often for her, she's cheerful, funny, empathic. I'm assuming possibly she's looked at me and thought that's no way to live

[Tichtheid]

Do young people like school kids still use stones and feet for weight and height in the UK?

In their 20s perhaps, and especially if talking to old people, below 20s it'd be unusual, my eldest is 13 and she'd just assume someone was a luddite if they used imperial other than pints and look at them with derision (part of the derision might be to cover she doesn't even know imperial measurements beyond pints and knowing approx 6ft is an average height for men).

And say the normal kitchen scales we use allow one to set weights in ounces, grams, ml, fl oz and the like, and if she's making pound cake she will still use the grams setting and just work off 454g. Which is to say even when making pound cake it simply wouldn't occur to her to use pounds, it's just not a thing to her

What about road signs and speeds. Do they use the miles & mph or convert it in their heads?

[Rinkals]

Artisans in the US work mainly in inches and feet don't they? I watch a lot of woodworking videos on YT and they're always on about 1/16 of an inch and so forth. Do Brits also do that? What side of the tape measure do you guys use?

Nobody uses feet and inches for engineering projects apart from the Americans.

I thought I was clear when I said that design drawings done in Scotland had to be divided by 25.4 before being sent to the States.

[dpedin]

Guys - the bullshit about pints and imperial measures is just a deliberate distraction! It is a dead cat! It will never happen - a bit like him making buses from wine boxes, the bridges to Northern Ireland or the airport in the Thames estuary. This is the Blonde Bumblecunt's deliberate strategy of both keeping the Brexit Ultras happy with some jingoistic or Brexit crap, giving everyone else something to moan and deride him about and create a sycophantic headline or two in the Murdoch press. It was timed perfectly to avoid us all from looking at the real issues - the Health and Care bill going through parliament which will open up the NHS to private healthcare, their pathetic attempt to rip up the NI protocol they signed off, the impact of the heath and social care levy on the poorest paid in society, the big increases in inflation and its impact on the pay rise for nurses, the Afghanistan debacle and other shite they are responsible for. Every time he gets ripped another one by Stammer at PMQs they rush out this sort of nonsense and everyone falls for it, every feckin time!

[fishfoodie]

Guys - the bullshit about pints and imperial measures is just a deliberate distraction! It is a dead cat! It will never happen - a bit like him making buses from wine boxes, the bridges to Northern Ireland or the airport in the Thames estuary. This is the Blonde Bumblecunt's deliberate strategy of both keeping the Brexit Ultras happy with some jingoistic or Brexit crap, giving everyone else something to moan and deride him about and create a sycophantic headline or two in the Murdoch press. It was timed perfectly to avoid us all from looking at the real issues - the Health and Care bill going through parliament which will open up the NHS to private healthcare, their pathetic attempt to rip up the NI protocol they signed off, the impact of the heath and social care levy on the poorest paid in society, the big increases in inflation and its impact on the pay rise for nurses, the Afghanistan debacle and other shite they are responsible for. Every time he gets ripped another one by Stammer at PMQs they rush out this sort of nonsense and everyone falls for it, every feckin time!

They aren't working anymore though !

The Polls are now going in the wrong direction for the Tories; & the dead cats aren't changing them; because people are starting to see the real effects of Brexit; & they aren't buying the narrative, that its just Covid, & everything will be fine in few years time.

The reshuffle shows the realization that something more needed to be done; but shuffling in some new cretins, isn't going to move the dial on the incompetence of Cabinet.

If the UK does actually see a Christmas of empty shelves, & business failures in the new year; time may be up for the bumblecunt !

[Rinkals]

Guys - the bullshit about pints and imperial measures is just a deliberate distraction! It is a dead cat! It will never happen - a bit like him making buses from wine boxes, the bridges to Northern Ireland or the airport in the Thames estuary. This is the Blonde Bumblecunt's deliberate strategy of both keeping the Brexit Ultras happy with some jingoistic or Brexit crap, giving everyone else something to moan and deride him about and create a sycophantic headline or two in the Murdoch press. It was timed perfectly to avoid us all from looking at the real issues - the Health and Care bill going through parliament which will open up the NHS to private healthcare, their pathetic attempt to rip up the NI protocol they signed off, the impact of the heath and social care levy on the poorest paid in society, the big increases in inflation and its impact on the pay rise for nurses, the Afghanistan debacle and other shite they are responsible for. Every time he gets ripped another one by Stammer at PMQs they rush out this sort of nonsense and everyone falls for it, every feckin time!

They aren't working anymore though !

The Polls are now going in the wrong direction for the Tories; & the dead cats aren't changing them; because people are starting to see the real effects of Brexit; & they aren't buying the narrative, that its just Covid, & everything will be fine in few years time.

The reshuffle shows the realization that something more needed to be done; but shuffling in some new cretins, isn't going to move the dial on the incompetence of Cabinet.

If the UK does actually see a Christmas of empty shelves, & business failures in the new year; time may be up for the bumblecunt !

Boris needs to hurry up with his plans to restrict voting access and curtail protest rights if he wants to see out his ten year project!

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Do young people like school kids still use stones and feet for weight and height in the UK?

In their 20s perhaps, and especially if talking to old people, below 20s it'd be unusual, my eldest is 13 and she'd just assume someone was a luddite if they used imperial other than pints and look at them with derision (part of the derision might be to cover she doesn't even know imperial measurements beyond pints and knowing approx 6ft is an average height for men).

And say the normal kitchen scales we use allow one to set weights in ounces, grams, ml, fl oz and the like, and if she's making pound cake she will still use the grams setting and just work off 454g. Which is to say even when making pound cake it simply wouldn't occur to her to use pounds, it's just not a thing to her

What about road signs and speeds. Do they use the miles & mph or convert it in their heads?

I don't actually know. But it's a fair point they're likely using miles and mph. It'd also be a fair point it's about time we removed this anachronistic folly and moved to kph

As I think back on their school work I'm pretty sure any question based around speed/distance would be in kph/kilometres, but certainly they did some conversion work on things like kilometres to miles, kilos to pounds

[Insane_Homer]

How it started


How it's going

[SaintK]

No shit !!!!!!

Voters think PM's Brexit deal has created more problems than it has solved, by more than three to one, poll suggests
A new poll suggests that, by a margin of three to one, people think the government’s Brexit deal has created more problems than it has solved.

The polling was carried out by Opinium, on behalf of Best for Britain, an anti-Brexit group that now campaigns for internationalism and better relations with the EU. It has been published alongside a report recommending how the Brexit deal could be improved.

Opinion asked a representative sample two questions. Here are the results.

So far, the government’s Brexit deal has created more problems than it has solved: 53%

So far, the government’s Brexit deal has solved more problems than it has created: 15%

Neither: 19%

Don’t know: 13%

Among Conservative supporters opinion was evenly split, with 28% of them saying the deal created more problems and 28% saying it solved more problems. But among people who voted for Brexit in 2016, those saying the deal created more problems than it solved (30%) outnumbered those saying the opposite (25%).

Opinium also asked people if they were aware of more positive or more negative consequences for business from the Brexit deal.

More positive consequences: 13%

More negative consequences: 50%

About the same: 22%

Don’t know: 15%

On this question Brexit voters were evenly split, with 23% seeing more negative effects, and 23% seeing more positive ones, but Conservative supporters were marginally more positive; some 25% of them said the impact had been positive, and 22% negative.

[tabascoboy]

BUT we've taken back control! Only to put it in the hands of a useless tosser

[sockwithaticket]

As an ardent remainer this is turning into the least satisfying "I told you so" ever. As was always going to be the case.

[Sandstorm]

As an ardent remainer this is turning into the least satisfying "I told you so" ever. As was always going to be the case.

Great situation if you’re Irish or French. Not so much if you live here.

[shaggy]

Artisans in the US work mainly in inches and feet don't they? I watch a lot of woodworking videos on YT and they're always on about 1/16 of an inch and so forth. Do Brits also do that? What side of the tape measure do you guys use?

Nobody uses feet and inches for engineering projects apart from the Americans.

I thought I was clear when I said that design drawings done in Scotland had to be divided by 25.4 before being sent to the States.

For a fair amount of oil & gas operations you will still find imperial units at the core of the analysis and planning. Metric can be a distant second.

[fishfoodie]

As an ardent remainer this is turning into the least satisfying "I told you so" ever. As was always going to be the case.

Great situation if you’re Irish or French. Not so much if you live here.

Its hardly all beer,& skittles in Ireland.

Avoiding the UK, has driven up logistics costs; & removed UK suppliers as options for a lot of businesses.

The Agrifoods sector normally supplies huge amounts of food to the UK; & it's only the repeated deferral of checks on the UK border; that is preventing the kind of chaos, that happened Post-Brexit on UK outbound goods. The delays are welcome; because it allows more time to prepare; & more importantly; to find new markets outside of the UK; where they can avoid the cost & inconvenience of selling the same good to a UK destination.

The North !

The fuckwits in the DUP are on a mission to fuck up the peace, & prosperity we've enjoyed for decades; & if they succeed; I think I will personally string David Cameron up from the nearest lamppost.

[Rinkals]

Artisans in the US work mainly in inches and feet don't they? I watch a lot of woodworking videos on YT and they're always on about 1/16 of an inch and so forth. Do Brits also do that? What side of the tape measure do you guys use?

Nobody uses feet and inches for engineering projects apart from the Americans.

I thought I was clear when I said that design drawings done in Scotland had to be divided by 25.4 before being sent to the States.

For a fair amount of oil & gas operations you will still find imperial units at the core of the analysis and planning. Metric can be a distant second.

If you are talking about Americans, yes.

Every body else uses metric.

[Marylandolorian]

Artisans in the US work mainly in inches and feet don't they? I watch a lot of woodworking videos on YT and they're always on about 1/16 of an inch and so forth. Do Brits also do that? What side of the tape measure do you guys use?

Nobody uses feet and inches for engineering projects apart from the Americans.

I thought I was clear when I said that design drawings done in Scotland had to be divided by 25.4 before being sent to the States.

The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not primarily use the metric system in commercial and standards activities, although it’s growing in science, medicine, government, and some industries mainly the ones that import.
I19 in Arizona Is the only highway with kilometers ( but only for 102km)

Rinkals, don’t you mean multiply by 2.54 ?

[Uncle fester]

Artisans in the US work mainly in inches and feet don't they? I watch a lot of woodworking videos on YT and they're always on about 1/16 of an inch and so forth. Do Brits also do that? What side of the tape measure do you guys use?

Nobody uses feet and inches for engineering projects apart from the Americans.

I thought I was clear when I said that design drawings done in Scotland had to be divided by 25.4 before being sent to the States.

Imperial is pretty prevalent for pipe sizing.
One of the worst mistakes I made as a young engineer was to spec metric for a dairy in the north. Poor buggers have to get all their spare parts from Germany.

[Biffer]

NASA uses SI measurements. Basically to fit in with the rest of science (all US physicists use SI now, except for a few dinosaurs). Although that didn’t stop Lockheed fucking up the Mars Climate orbiter mission by doing software in imperial which led to the probe being destroyed. Just a $327 million mission though, so no biggie.

[shaggy]

Nobody uses feet and inches for engineering projects apart from the Americans.

I thought I was clear when I said that design drawings done in Scotland had to be divided by 25.4 before being sent to the States.

For a fair amount of oil & gas operations you will still find imperial units at the core of the analysis and planning. Metric can be a distant second.

If you are talking about Americans, yes.

Every body else uses metric.

Imperial units are commonplace in a lot of the oil & gas industry throughout the world, not just America. They have to be maintained as the equipment is designed and built in imperial and many of the measures used, especially in the drilling sector, are imperial.

[Rinkals]

For a fair amount of oil & gas operations you will still find imperial units at the core of the analysis and planning. Metric can be a distant second.

If you are talking about Americans, yes.

Every body else uses metric.

Imperial units are commonplace in a lot of the oil & gas industry throughout the world, not just America. They have to be maintained as the equipment is designed and built in imperial and many of the measures used, especially in the drilling sector, are imperial.

Are you sure?

My own experience is limited to the North Sea, but I communicate with plenty of people who operate across the World and I've never heard of Imperial being used anywhere except America.

[Calculon]

NASA uses SI measurements. Basically to fit in with the rest of science (all US physicists use SI now, except for a few dinosaurs). Although that didn’t stop Lockheed fucking up the Mars Climate orbiter mission by doing software in imperial which led to the probe being destroyed. Just a $327 million mission though, so no biggie.

I would find it very hard to believe that any scientific journal in any field would publish your article if it didn't use SI units

[shaggy]

If you are talking about Americans, yes.

Every body else uses metric.

Imperial units are commonplace in a lot of the oil & gas industry throughout the world, not just America. They have to be maintained as the equipment is designed and built in imperial and many of the measures used, especially in the drilling sector, are imperial.

Are you sure?

My own experience is limited to the North Sea, but I communicate with plenty of people who operate across the World and I've never heard of Imperial being used anywhere except America.

Yes I am sure. I use imperial units almost every day. In fact this very day I have dealt with operations in Azerbaijan, Indonesia and Brazil where they were the base standard for some activities.

Even in the North Sea you will find use of barrels, kips and feet alongside cubes, tons and metres.

[fishfoodie]

I used to work in semiconductors; & the mess of dimensions was fucking baffling.

You have major equipment manufacturers in Japan, the US & the EU; & depending on where they got their parts from; you could end up with exclusively imperial; exclusively metric, or a mix. The, absolutely, positively last place you want someone to mix up a metric thread & an imperial fitting; is in a gas cabinet where you're running toxic, & / or pyrophoric gases

The fupping wafers were referred to as 8", or 12" in the US; althought we gradually go them to concede they were actually 200mm or 300mm

At least when it came down to the microscopic scale everyone agreed on microns, nanometers, & angstroms !

[Biffer]

NASA uses SI measurements. Basically to fit in with the rest of science (all US physicists use SI now, except for a few dinosaurs). Although that didn’t stop Lockheed fucking up the Mars Climate orbiter mission by doing software in imperial which led to the probe being destroyed. Just a $327 million mission though, so no biggie.

I would find it very hard to believe that any scientific journal in any field would publish your article if it didn't use SI units

Yeah, I doubt that any would.

[tabascoboy]

Trade deal with UK is not a priority for Biden, Boris Johnson accepts
Admission on eve of White House meeting dashes dream of Brexit benefits

Boris Johnson has accepted that the UK will not get a quick trade deal with the US, in an embarrassing admission as he prepares for his first White House meeting with president Joe Biden.

Speaking ahead of Tuesday’s encounter, the prime minister made clear that he recognised a free trade agreement (FTA) with Britain was not a priority for Mr Biden, who he said had “a lot of fish to fry”.

A swift transatlantic FTA was repeatedly trumpeted by Leave campaigners, including Mr Johnson, as the biggest prize from Brexit, and the prime minister made clear on his arrival in Downing Street in 2019 that he was hopeful of a quick deal on tariff-free commerce with the then president Donald Trump.

The Department for International Trade has estimated the benefits of a deal at up to £7.7bn, or 0.36 per cent of GDP – well short of the predicted losses from EU withdrawal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 23660.html

[Rinkals]

Imperial units are commonplace in a lot of the oil & gas industry throughout the world, not just America. They have to be maintained as the equipment is designed and built in imperial and many of the measures used, especially in the drilling sector, are imperial.

Are you sure?

My own experience is limited to the North Sea, but I communicate with plenty of people who operate across the World and I've never heard of Imperial being used anywhere except America.

Yes I am sure. I use imperial units almost every day. In fact this very day I have dealt with operations in Azerbaijan, Indonesia and Brazil where they were the base standard for some activities.

Even in the North Sea you will find use of barrels, kips and feet alongside cubes, tons and metres.

I get that Barrels (and even miles) are in use, but feet and inches?

We had Projects in Baku and Indonesia, and I've never heard of anyone not using metric on drawings.

Anyway, I don't want to cast doubt on your first hand experience: I just find it surprising.

[shaggy]

Are you sure?

My own experience is limited to the North Sea, but I communicate with plenty of people who operate across the World and I've never heard of Imperial being used anywhere except America.

Yes I am sure. I use imperial units almost every day. In fact this very day I have dealt with operations in Azerbaijan, Indonesia and Brazil where they were the base standard for some activities.

Even in the North Sea you will find use of barrels, kips and feet alongside cubes, tons and metres.

I get that Barrels (and even miles) are in use, but feet and inches?

We had Projects in Baku and Indonesia, and I've never heard of anyone not using metric on drawings.

Anyway, I don't want to cast doubt on your first hand experience: I just find it surprising.

Maybe you should read my responses. You are talking design, I have talked about operations and analysis to support existing assets. Imperial is heavily used in day to day oil and gas operations to the point is some cases where Metric does not even appear.

[Rinkals]

OK.

[Happyhooker]

Not an artisan or craftsman nor much of a DIYer but much prefer to use mm / cm / m. That said my house is old enough that doors, windows, rooms were plainly built to measurements of feet and inches, so you do end up with finding "odd" measurements like 914 mm

I buy materials in a weird mix of imperial and metric. Sheet ply is 8'x4', but plasterboard 2400x1200 (4&2cm less). Timber is even odder. I buy 4"x2" in lengths measured by metre.

My tape measure has metric on both sides. Much easier to use.

[I like neeps]

Oh no, not easy to be down this bad on television as Daniel Hannan manages here.

[Tichtheid]

Not an artisan or craftsman nor much of a DIYer but much prefer to use mm / cm / m. That said my house is old enough that doors, windows, rooms were plainly built to measurements of feet and inches, so you do end up with finding "odd" measurements like 914 mm

I buy materials in a weird mix of imperial and metric. Sheet ply is 8'x4', but plasterboard 2400x1200 (4&2cm less). Timber is even odder. I buy 4"x2" in lengths measured by metre.

My tape measure has metric on both sides. Much easier to use.

The timber merchants I use around here sell sheet ply and mdf etc in 8x4, but use the metric measurements, thickness is in mill too.

I’m a hobbist guitar maker and the plans I have for pre war guitars all come from the states so I have to measure everything myself and cross out/write over the numbers on the plans.

[JM2K6]

I used to work in semiconductors; & the mess of dimensions was fucking baffling.

You have major equipment manufacturers in Japan, the US & the EU; & depending on where they got their parts from; you could end up with exclusively imperial; exclusively metric, or a mix. The, absolutely, positively last place you want someone to mix up a metric thread & an imperial fitting; is in a gas cabinet where you're running toxic, & / or pyrophoric gases

The fupping wafers were referred to as 8", or 12" in the US; althought we gradually go them to concede they were actually 200mm or 300mm

At least when it came down to the microscopic scale everyone agreed on microns, nanometers, & angstroms !

"fupping wafers" sounds like a cracking insult