AB 2020 selection discussion

[Ymx]

Thought it might be worth a thread in its own right.

There are sooo many putting their hand up right now.

Let the debate resume......

One thing that can’t be changed is coach unfortunately.

Though we can start with captain...

[Ymx]

The elephant in the room for captain is over whether to remain steadfast (Stan like) with Sam Cane, or whether to open it up and bring Whitelock in to the mix.

[CrazyIslander]

Whitelock should captain than Retalick to take over when he's back. Cane isn't in the same league a McCaw and gets injured a lot.

But Fozzie will not take the captaincy off a chiefs player.

[FujiKiwi]

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Joe Moody, Nepo Laulala, Karl Tuinukuafe

Hookers: Dane Coles, Cody Taylor, Asafo Aumua

Locks: Sam Whitelock, Patrick Tuipolotu, Gerard Cowley-Tuioti

Loosies: Shannon Frizell, Lachlan Boshier, Dalton Papalii, Hoskins Sotutu, EDIT: Ardie Savea

Halfbacks: Snecky, Flapanara, Finlay Christie

10s: Richie Mo'unga, Beauden Barrett, Josh Ioane

Midfield: ALB, Braydon Ennor, TJ Faiane, Peter Umaga-Jensen

Wings: Sevu Reece, George Bridge, Caleb Clarke

Fullback: Will Jordan

I've done that in a hurry, but that's my squad.

[Ymx]

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Joe Moody, Nepo Laulala, Karl Tuinukuafe

Hookers: Dane Coles, Cody Taylor, Asafo Aumua

Locks: Sam Whitelock, Patrick Tuipolotu, Gerard Cowley-Tuioti

Loosies: Shannon Frizell, Lachlan Boshier, Dalton Papalii, Hoskins Sotutu

Halfbacks: Snecky, Flapanara, Finlay Christie

10s: Richie Mo'unga, Beauden Barrett, Josh Ioane

Midfield: ALB, Braydon Ennor, TJ Faiane, Peter Umaga-Jensen

Wings: Sevu Reece, George Bridge, Caleb Clarke

Fullback: Will Jordan

I've done that in a hurry, but that's my squad.

Wo wo wo my friend slow down!! One part at a time. And we need to consider preferred starters.

But I note no Cane at all. Boom

Who do you think for captain and vc?

[FujiKiwi]

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Joe Moody, Nepo Laulala, Karl Tuinukuafe

Hookers: Dane Coles, Cody Taylor, Asafo Aumua

Locks: Sam Whitelock, Patrick Tuipolotu, Gerard Cowley-Tuioti

Loosies: Shannon Frizell, Lachlan Boshier, Dalton Papalii, Hoskins Sotutu

Halfbacks: Snecky, Flapanara, Finlay Christie

10s: Richie Mo'unga, Beauden Barrett, Josh Ioane

Midfield: ALB, Braydon Ennor, TJ Faiane, Peter Umaga-Jensen

Wings: Sevu Reece, George Bridge, Caleb Clarke

Fullback: Will Jordan

I've done that in a hurry, but that's my squad.

Wo wo wo my friend slow down!! And we need to consider preferred starters.

But I note no Cane at all. Boom

Who do you think for captain and vc?

Right. The definitive XXIII coming after I've had dinner.

Spoiler: Whitelock captain. Coles and Taylor co-vice captains. What could possibly go wrong?

[Ymx]

I think Whitelock has to be instated. It should be easy for Fozzie to switch this. “Things have obviously changed in the climate ...”

But I fear he will feel the need to be stubborn with the Sam Cane decision. Being his only decision to date.

[Ymx]

Coles as VC. But we would like you say need another when he’s carded.

[FujiKiwi]

Wo wo wo my friend slow down!! One part at a time. And we need to consider preferred starters.

But I note no Cane at all. Boom

Who do you think for captain and vc?

I got ahead of myself, for which I apologize.

Over dinner, I've also decided my initial squad was too conservative.

Will rethink.

[Ymx]

But the loosies is a hot one.

So many exciting prospects, plus a few now performing to their potential too.

Exciting
Sotutu
Kirifi
Boshier

Now performing to their potential
Akira Ioane
Frizell

And so many other solid stalwarts.

Obviously Cane has not been at his best since injury. Broken neck let’s not forget. Kind of hope he retires before he ends up in bad way.

[Monkey Magic]

Not a bad initial squad for a poster to put up that we can all tear shreds off.. start the discussion with.

Would have parkinson at lock over tuioti.

As a side note, assuming we get any international rugby this, what law interpretations will it be under?

[FujiKiwi]

Yeah, realistically, Sam Cane is going to be there. And others out of form: Goodhue, Beauden Barrett, DMac, etc.

Barring injuries, I wouldn't have Damian McKenzie in the All Black squad at all. Rieko Ioane either.

I imagine Goodhue will come right.

[Ymx]

Not a bad initial squad for a poster to put up that we can all tear shreds off.. start the discussion with.

Would have parkinson at lock over tuioti.

As a side note, assuming we get any international rugby this, what law interpretations will it be under?

Hopefully not 2m social distancing ones.

[Ymx]

Yeah, realistically, Sam Cane is going to be there. And others out of form: Goodhue, Beauden Barrett, DMac, etc.

Barring injuries, I wouldn't have Damian McKenzie in the All Black squad at all. Rieko Ioane either.

I imagine Goodhue will come right.

I have been noting the same about Goodhue. He’s frequently being taking down without offloading and killing off offensive attacks. Lost a bit of mojo.

[FujiKiwi]

I'd like to see the kind of squad Fozzie is NOT going to pick. I'd like a team full of Sotutus, Papaliis, Jordans and Umaga-Jensens, with just a few old heads to keep things calm.

[Ymx]

Thought BB certainly put his name forward at 10 today. Not so much the kicking.

Though I think R Mo has done plenty enough to keep 10.

But how can we not start with Jordan?

Jordan at 14 then.

But ...

[FujiKiwi]

Say the unspeakable, Ymx. Beaudy doesn't make the starting XV.

[Ymx]

Say the unspeakable, Ymx. Beaudy doesn't make the starting XV.

I couldn’t, hence why I said Jordan at 14.

But ok, BB hasn’t played well at FB to date, but good at 10, but not good enough (in kicking duties), and R Mo is on fire.

Though had I suggested such despite my BB man crush -

If BB was on the bench which he’s obviously amazing at, it would have the dual benefit of keeping Jordy out of the team ...

[CrazyIslander]

Goodhue is a long term player, you need to keep him there.

[Carter's Choice]

Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Joe Moody, Nepo Laulala, Karl Tuinukuafe

Hookers: Dane Coles, Cody Taylor, Asafo Aumua

Locks: Sam Whitelock, Patrick Tuipolotu, Gerard Cowley-Tuioti

Loosies: Shannon Frizell, Lachlan Boshier, Dalton Papalii, Hoskins Sotutu, EDIT: Ardie Savea

Halfbacks: Snecky, Flapanara, Finlay Christie

10s: Richie Mo'unga, Beauden Barrett, Josh Ioane

Midfield: ALB, Braydon Ennor, TJ Faiane, Peter Umaga-Jensen

Wings: Sevu Reece, George Bridge, Caleb Clarke

Fullback: Will Jordan

I've done that in a hurry, but that's my squad.

That's a very small squad. In 2019 Hansen initially picked a 39 player squad for the RC. I'm going to choose a 34 man squad, 18 forwards and 16 backs. This is the squad I think Foster and Fox will select if he picks a squad of that size;

Props: Moody, Tu'ungafasi, Laulala, Tu'inukuafe, Lomax
Hookers: Taylor, Coles, Aumua
Locks: Whitelock, Tuipulotu, Parkinson, Strange
Loose forwards: Cane (C), Savea, Frizell, Sotutu, Boshier, Papali'i

Halfbacks: Smith, Perenara, Weber
First-fives: Mo'unga, B. Barrett
Midfielders: Goodhue, Lienart-Brown, Ennor, Laumape, Ioane
Wingers: Reece, Bridge, Clarke
Fullbacks: J. Barrett, McKenzie, Jordan

[FujiKiwi]

Yeah that looks right, in regards to the squad that will be selected.

I’d like to see a few more new faces. I think the ABs would be well served to set aside Rieko Ioane now. For me, he’d be on the fringes of the team.

I’d like to see Jordie Barrett left out completely and DMac only called in for an injury to Beauden Barrett.

We may have far fewer tests over the next few years, in which case, we need to accelerate development a bit.

[Carter's Choice]

Yeah that looks right, in regards to the squad that will be selected.

I’d like to see a few more new faces. I think the ABs would be well served to set aside Rieko Ioane now. For me, he’d be on the fringes of the team.

I’d like to see Jordie Barrett left out completely and DMac only called in for an injury to Beauden Barrett.

We may have far fewer tests over the next few years, in which case, we need to accelerate development a bit.

Reflecting on my squad, I'd like to see Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u in the squad. He's big, dynamic and an excellent ball runner. He was great today against a powerful Blues pack. Our backrow will all be about balance, if Cane and Savea are locked in at 7/8 then we need a very big body at 6. Frizell obviously fits that role description.

[FujiKiwi]

Reflecting on my squad, I'd like to see Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u in the squad. He's big, dynamic and an excellent ball runner. He was great today against a powerful Blues pack. Our backrow will all be about balance, if Cane and Savea are locked in at 7/8 then we need a very big body at 6. Frizell obviously fits that role description.

Injuries aside, do you see a place for Lachlan Boshier in a match day 23?

[Monkey Magic]

Looking at both the squads posted - the days of carrying a 6/lock in the squad seem done for now. Without Big Barrett there's no one that really fits the bill

[Biffer]

So do you guys think Finlay Christie will ever get a serious shot at a decent run at an AB slot?

Just wondering if we could tempt him with the Scotland Squad.

[FujiKiwi]

So do you guys think Finlay Christie will ever get a serious shot at a decent run at an AB slot?

Just wondering if we could tempt him with the Scotland Squad.

I’m pretty sure the plan is for the ABs to give him one test cap against Tahiti later this year, and then never play him again.

[CrazyIslander]

So do you guys think Finlay Christie will ever get a serious shot at a decent run at an AB slot?

Just wondering if we could tempt him with the Scotland Squad.

I’m pretty sure the plan is for the ABs to give him one test cap against Tahiti later this year, and then never play him again.

Test? More a 7s appearance

[Ymx]

Rugby 7’s tournament not going to be back for some time me thinks.

[FujiKiwi]

Covid is going to have such an impact that we may only get one or two "normal" years' worth of tests in before the next RWC. If we're lucky. This means Fozzie should (But likely won't) put the pedal down in introducing new players.

As my bolter, wild card, out-of-left-field pick, I would like to nominate this guy for a place in the ABs squad this year:



Jacob Pierce:

Position: Lock
Born: 10/09/97
Height: 201
Weight: 106
Province: North Harbour
Provincial Caps: 17
Provincial Debut: 2018 v Canterbury
Blues Debut: 2018 v Reds
Blues Caps: 7

I realize this could go all Dom Bird and badly backfire (Dominic Bird, remember, was selected for the ABs for his twin skills of being tall and Cantabrian. He was ruthlessly exposed by the Japanese pack and quickly faded into obscurity). But I get the feeling this kid Pierce has something a bit special about him.

[Gumboot]

I agree about Pierce, he really caught the eye when he came on yesterday.

[FujiKiwi]

Yeah, obviously not to supersede Whitelock/Retallick/Tuipulotu etc. any time soon. More of a project player.

[Gumboot]

Yeah, obviously not to supersede Whitelock/Retallick/Tuipulotu etc. any time soon. More of a project player.

Yep, another long-term prospect at lock is Tupou Vaa'i. I think Quinten Strange will make the ABs before either of them, though.

My initial squad is the same as AC's, although I'd be surprised if Laumape is fit in time to be considered. And assuming Scott Barrett, Havili, Jacobson, Grace and Robinson are also out injured.

[Ymx]

Yeah, obviously not to supersede Whitelock/Retallick/Tuipulotu etc. any time soon. More of a project player.

Now that you mention it, second row depth doesn’t really seem to be a problem despite AC/DC’s thread over the ditch. Not that I read it tbf.

[FujiKiwi]

The locking stocks still aren't exactly overflowing, but the situation isn't dire, either.

I'm picking the midfield as being the comparative weak point, given that our very good players in those positions, like Laumape, tend to get injured.

[Ymx]

I actually think this tournament is creating a wealth of talent for NZ. I don’t want to change it now.

Scrum half depth is even huge.

Looking forward to the North v South match. Although I’m divided.

Born in Hawkes Bay, no interest in rugby then, but born there. Went to Canterbury Uni, started playing in a social uni team and found my love for the game, all whilst supporting the Saders as supe started up.

I guess I’m South.

[FujiKiwi]

All my rugby, playing and coaching, through North Harbour.

Born in Auckland. Dad from north of there, and mum from Motueka.

But pretty much a Northern boy.

[Carter's Choice]

Reflecting on my squad, I'd like to see Marino Mika'ele-Tu'u in the squad. He's big, dynamic and an excellent ball runner. He was great today against a powerful Blues pack. Our backrow will all be about balance, if Cane and Savea are locked in at 7/8 then we need a very big body at 6. Frizell obviously fits that role description.

Injuries aside, do you see a place for Lachlan Boshier in a match day 23?

Depends. My biggest issue with him is that at test level he'd be a relatively small 6. So if Ian Foster goes with Ardie Savea at 8 and Cane at 7, we'd end up with a tiny backrow if Boshier was on the bindside. The English and Springboks would be licking their lips.

I think Boshier's best chance to play for the AB's is to be Sam Cane's understudy at 7. Especially if Savea moves fulltime to 8. Even then, he would only come into reckoning for selection as a replacement starting no.7 for Cane. I can't see the value of Boshier as the bench loosie because he does not provide enough impact with ball in hand.

If Foster goes for a taller 8, who is also a lineout option, such as Hoskins Sotutu, then Boshier is a chance to play at 6.

[FujiKiwi]

Yeah. Excellent points. Good nuances.

EDIT: I don't like the idea of that "tiny" back row, when we have an abundance of big, athletic guys coming through. I'd like to see the ABs go in the opposite direction and choose huge guys who also have an array of skills. Let's have our cake and eat it, too.

[Monkey Magic]

Yeah. Excellent points. Good nuances.

EDIT: I don't like the idea of that "tiny" back row, when we have an abundance of big, athletic guys coming through. I'd like to see the ABs go in the opposite direction and choose huge guys who also have an array of skills. Let's have our cake and eat it, too.

That makes sense, make people think twice about running it up around the fringes and have large lads running hard at opposing defenses.

Frizzell, cane, Sotutu starting with ardie on the bench.

[Gumboot]

The locking stocks still aren't exactly overflowing, but the situation isn't dire, either.

Yep, all of our best locks atm - Retallick, Whitelock, Barrett and Tuipulotu - debuted at 21-22yo.