The Brexit Thread

[ASMO]

What comforts me most is that Bimbo is likely reading this thread frothing at the mouth due to his inability to log on and try to debunk everything.

[fishfoodie]

Intel CEO says ‘big, honkin’ fab’ planned for Europe will be world’s most advanced


A $95 billion mega-fab

Breaking ground on the 10-year–plus chip manufacturing project, which could ultimately cost a mind-boggling €80 billion ($95 billion) to complete, could begin in 2022, according to the self-confessed “semiconductor geek,” with the first wafers running off the line as early as the middle of the decade.

In the final stage of its expansion, when all eight manufacturing facilities (or “modules”) are finished, Gelsinger told Fortune the site would be akin to a small city. By then, he expects it to employ in excess of 10,000 people directly and potentially support another 90,000 jobs across the area, including jobs at suppliers as well as restaurant workers and schoolteachers.

...

U.K. ruled out

The new Intel chip center is exactly the kind of prestigious project U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson aims to bring to his country as part of his drive to make it a global tech hub, and the U.K. is already a semiconductor innovator in its own right thanks to cutting-edge chip designer ARM. Yet the Intel boss ruled out situating the mega-fab there, given that an individual country on its own would not have the financial firepower to help Intel realize its plans without the added backing of a supranational body like the European Union.

“We’re only considering the EU,” he clarified, pausing on each of the two letters to ensure there could be no confusion. “To have the capital at this level, it has to be an EU-level project. The market has to be an EU-level market.”

The location, which he hopes to pick from a short list of more than 10 candidates before the year is out, won’t just be gargantuan in scope, however.

https://fortune.com/2021/09/10/intel-ce ... -advanced/

[tc27]

Looks like all the NI unionist parties have withdrawn support for the NI protocol so I expect art 16 to be invoked fairly soon.



This will lead to much frothing I am sure but the UK government can make a fairly sound argument protecting the EU single market is less important than threatening the NI peace process.

[tabascoboy]

How symbolic...

Imports from EU to fill gap after labour shortages force UK farmers to cut production

The FT Weekend reports that turkeys will be imported from Poland and France ahead of Christmas after UK farmers cut production over labour shortage concerns.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

How symbolic...

Imports from EU to fill gap after labour shortages force UK farmers to cut production

The FT Weekend reports that turkeys will be imported from Poland and France ahead of Christmas after UK farmers cut production over labour shortage concerns.

It wasn't exactly that UK farmers cut production, earlier this summer the major names in Turkeys placed much smaller orders with UK farmers for the birds because oddly they thought there'd be a problem. Which nicely shows the subject gives rise to problems and that the problems are often easy to predict, both of which HMG are in denial about making things worse again

[fishfoodie]

How symbolic...

Imports from EU to fill gap after labour shortages force UK farmers to cut production

The FT Weekend reports that turkeys will be imported from Poland and France ahead of Christmas after UK farmers cut production over labour shortage concerns.

It wasn't exactly that UK farmers cut production, earlier this summer the major names in Turkeys placed much smaller orders with UK farmers for the birds because oddly they thought there'd be a problem. Which nicely shows the subject gives rise to problems and that the problems are often easy to predict, both of which HMG are in denial about making things worse again

No one to slaughter the birds.
No one to pluck & pack them.
Freezers full, because the trucks to move them to the warehouses aren't arriving when they're supposed to.
& no-one exactly sure if you'll have gas to cook them on the day

Perfect Storm

[tabascoboy]

Still, musn't grumble

I always have duck for Christmas - assuming I will have leccy of course

[Uncle fester]

Looks like all the NI unionist parties have withdrawn support for the NI protocol so I expect art 16 to be invoked fairly soon.



This will lead to much frothing I am sure but the UK government can make a fairly sound argument protecting the EU single market is less important than threatening the NI peace process.

Delve into what they are actually saying and it's a lot more wishy washy than the headline statement because they know full well that NI voted against Brexit and pushing for a harder Brexit will cost them votes.

[Biffer]

Looks like all the NI unionist parties have withdrawn support for the NI protocol so I expect art 16 to be invoked fairly soon.



This will lead to much frothing I am sure but the UK government can make a fairly sound argument protecting the EU single market is less important than threatening the NI peace process.

Delve into what they are actually saying and it's a lot more wishy washy than the headline statement because they know full well that NI voted against Brexit and pushing for a harder Brexit will cost them votes.

Doesn’t matter to the hardliners. They think that they’re doing God's work.

[Uncle fester]

UK to push for ‘significant change’ in Northern Ireland protocol (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/u ... -1.4696376

Hey guys. You know that deal we signed a while back. Well we don't like some bits of it anymore so we'd like you to scrap those bits but keep all the bits we do like.

[dpedin]

UK to push for ‘significant change’ in Northern Ireland protocol (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/u ... -1.4696376

Hey guys. You know that deal we signed a while back. Well we don't like some bits of it anymore so we'd like you to scrap those bits but keep all the bits we do like.

I see Frost is already saying he doesn't like the EU suggestions to change the NI Protocol before they've been published. He is now demanding that the role of the ECJ is unacceptable and can't go forward with any changes that maintains the ECJ role is a new red line despite being happy with all this when signing the original deal. The problem is that the NI protocol is working well and the NI economy is adjusting to the new realities and of having the privileged position of having a foot in both camps, north - south trade is growing and working well in plugging any gaps created by the west - east issues. The DUP are shitting themselves over this.

The reality is that the UK Gov doesn't want an agreement on a new NI protocol - it signed it in bad faith and had every intention on never implementing it properly and just wants to trigger Article 16 and take unilateral action to withdraw from the protocol thus trying to force the EU in establishing a border in Ireland. They need an enemy to blame for the disastrous post Brexit shambles and will continue to target the EU as the baddies. Very dodgy strategy and will piss off the EU no end as well as the Biden/US administration. The EU will of course not implement a border but use tariffs, quotas and border checks to basically screw the UK into the ground, probably supported by Biden and the US who are already pissed off with the Blonde Bumbelcunt. The Brexit Ultras are already wetting their pants at a trade war with the EU and don't give a shit about the economic and social cost to the UK population. They really are a shower of cnuts!

[fishfoodie]

Meanwhile the Dinosaur deniers are also following the lead of the tories; & showing contempt; for their duties, the court, & the electorate, they are supposed to be serving !

The DUP's boycott of north-south meetings in protest at the Northern Ireland Protocol is unlawful, a judge has ruled.

Mr Justice Scoffield delivered the declaration at Belfast High Court after a Belfast man, Sean Napier, brought judicial review proceedings into the lawfulness of the DUP move.

The case centred around DUP leader Jeffrey Donaldson's announcement last month that his party would disengage with the North South Ministerial Council (NSMC) meetings as part of its campaign of opposition to the Protocol.

Mr Justice Scoffield said: "The respondents' decision to withdraw from the North South Ministerial Council was, and is, unlawful.

"It frustrates, is contrary to and is in breach of legal duties contained in the Northern Ireland Act."

He said that the declaration had been agreed by legal counsel for both the applicant and the respondents.

The judge continued: "Ministers of the Northern Ireland Executive are required to affirm the pledge of office, set out as part of the Northern Ireland Executive Ministerial Code.

"That includes a commitment to participate in the North South Ministerial Council and the British Irish Council.

"It is difficult for the court to reach any other conclusion than that the respondents have consciously determined to act in contravention of the pledge of office and the ministerial code."

He added: "It is perhaps worth emphasising that each minister of the Northern Ireland Executive bears personal responsibility to comply with the pledge of office and the ministerial code.

"The court expects the respondents to comply with their legal obligations."

Mr Justice Scoffield said he would not take any further action at the moment, but said if there was no change to the situation the applicant could return to court.

...

Two NMSC meetings have already been cancelled, with further meetings scheduled for later this week.

Five DUP ministers were named as respondents in the case, First Minister Paul Givan, junior minister at the Executive Office Gary Middleton, Education Minister Michelle McIlveen, Agriculture Minister Edwin Poots and Economy Minister Gordon Lyons.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/101 ... up-ruling/

I hope the Irish Government schedules meetings every week for the rest of the year; & dares the pricks, to challenge the Courts.

[Insane_Homer]

[tabascoboy]

The EU is to set out proposals later to address the row about trade in Northern Ireland.

The UK wants to change the deal struck as part of the Brexit process to allow goods to circulate more freely between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

It says the current rules impose too many barriers to the sale of chilled meats and other products.

The EU's proposals, which it calls far-reaching, are expected to involve reduced checks on goods and medicines.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58871221

So much for the EU being obstructive and negative then...

[Paddington Bear]

Funny to think everything in the EU's proposals was deemed impossible just a couple of years ago, and particularly funny watching the assembled europhile sensibles of twitter immediately pivot from 'NIP is perfect' to 'superb pragmatic improvements proposed by the EU'.

Sadly clear that only hardball works with the EU, May and Barwell made most of these points in a pragmatic and sensible way and got rebuffed. Frost ruffles feathers and makes some progress. Not ideal.

[tc27]

UK to push for ‘significant change’ in Northern Ireland protocol (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/u ... -1.4696376

Hey guys. You know that deal we signed a while back. Well we don't like some bits of it anymore so we'd like you to scrap those bits but keep all the bits we do like.

I see Frost is already saying he doesn't like the EU suggestions to change the NI Protocol before they've been published. He is now demanding that the role of the ECJ is unacceptable and can't go forward with any changes that maintains the ECJ role is a new red line despite being happy with all this when signing the original deal. The problem is that the NI protocol is working well and the NI economy is adjusting to the new realities and of having the privileged position of having a foot in both camps, north - south trade is growing and working well in plugging any gaps created by the west - east issues. The DUP are shitting themselves over this.

The reality is that the UK Gov doesn't want an agreement on a new NI protocol - it signed it in bad faith and had every intention on never implementing it properly and just wants to trigger Article 16 and take unilateral action to withdraw from the protocol thus trying to force the EU in establishing a border in Ireland. They need an enemy to blame for the disastrous post Brexit shambles and will continue to target the EU as the baddies. Very dodgy strategy and will piss off the EU no end as well as the Biden/US administration. The EU will of course not implement a border but use tariffs, quotas and border checks to basically screw the UK into the ground, probably supported by Biden and the US who are already pissed off with the Blonde Bumbelcunt. The Brexit Ultras are already wetting their pants at a trade war with the EU and don't give a shit about the economic and social cost to the UK population. They really are a shower of cnuts!

Agree people who fetishize sovereignty and are reckless to the social and economic costs could be characterised thus.

[tc27]

Funny to think everything in the EU's proposals was deemed impossible just a couple of years ago, and particularly funny watching the assembled europhile sensibles of twitter immediately pivot from 'NIP is perfect' to 'superb pragmatic improvements proposed by the EU'.

Sadly clear that only hardball works with the EU, May and Barwell made most of these points in a pragmatic and sensible way and got rebuffed. Frost ruffles feathers and makes some progress. Not ideal.

Agree with this - and for really underline show wrong the narrative of the EU being the rational and legalistic party in negotiations was. Repeatedly humiliating May might have being emotionally satisfying but it just led to her being replaced and pushing the hardest possible terms in the withdrawal agreement particularly over NI simply meant the UK later on free from A50 deadlines and as a sovereign state would use the A16 provisions (or at least threaten to) to get a better deal.

The lack of coherent and long term thinking is apparent.

[Slick]

Funny to think everything in the EU's proposals was deemed impossible just a couple of years ago, and particularly funny watching the assembled europhile sensibles of twitter immediately pivot from 'NIP is perfect' to 'superb pragmatic improvements proposed by the EU'.

Sadly clear that only hardball works with the EU, May and Barwell made most of these points in a pragmatic and sensible way and got rebuffed. Frost ruffles feathers and makes some progress. Not ideal.

Agree with this - and for really underline show wrong the narrative of the EU being the rational and legalistic party in negotiations was. Repeatedly humiliating May might have being emotionally satisfying but it just led to her being replaced and pushing the hardest possible terms in the withdrawal agreement particularly over NI simply meant the UK later on free from A50 deadlines and as a sovereign state would use the A16 provisions (or at least threaten to) to get a better deal.

The lack of coherent and long term thinking is apparent.

There was a really weird thing around Brexit, from a lot of people, that the UK were untrustworthy idiots and the EU was a glowing example of how things should be run. Actually goes a lot deeper than, if you listen to some folk we are the worst country on the planet for just about everything.

[Paddington Bear]

Hindsight is 20/20 but maybe when deciding who to put in charge of the negotiations, someone who would subsequently run for President of a nation with whom we have 1,000 years of rivalry wasn't the call.

[Calculon]

The idea that the EU “humiliated” May, just as they “humiliated” Cameron before, seems as silly as saying self-described Anglophile Barnier shouldn’t have been in charge of negations because he’s French.

[Paddington Bear]

The idea that the EU “humiliated” May, just as they “humiliated” Cameron before, seems as silly as saying self-described Anglophile Barnier shouldn’t have been in charge of negations because he’s French.

Well they did (for May, Cameron naively believed Merkel was on his side and would sort it for him) and he shouldn't have been. Deciding to exert maximum pressure on the negotiations meant the agreement was always going to be reopened as soon as the British government was more secure politically at home. Someone with ambitions to become President of France was never going to be particularly open to compromise with the British. None of this was unpredictable.

[tc27]

The idea that the EU “humiliated” May, just as they “humiliated” Cameron before, seems as silly as saying self-described Anglophile Barnier shouldn’t have been in charge of negations because he’s French.

Cameron did not get the support he expected - not sure what's that classed as.

Cosmetically May was openly mocked by Barnier, Tusk and other EU figures, was put into staged situations where photos could be taken that embarrassed her.

More materially the rebuff of her Salzburg proposals' which was done very bluntly and without any of the normal diplomatic niceties finished her and gave her no room domestically to get a deal.

You may disagree with this but this is how it appeared in the UK and its this perception which mattered in terms of May being unable to negotiate a much closer relationship than the one we ended up with.

[Tichtheid]

Hindsight is 20/20 but maybe when deciding who to put in charge of the negotiations, someone who would subsequently run for President of a nation with whom we have 1,000 years of rivalry wasn't the call.

Who’s this “we”?

[TheNatalShark]

A Northern Ireland only solution was something rejected out of hand by May's government when put forward by the EU in 2017 and resulted in the backstop.

In the same way as the UK dismissed that as impossible then, working within and towards the principal of the EU's original proposal (with the EU still seeking to place as much of the burden of costs on the UK as possible and still seems likely outcome) is a situation Ireland and the EU will hardly perceive as "playing hardball works". The EU will remain as stubborn as ever to external change pressures.

As it is we are still at the point where the UK is making mostly vague and non-detailed public statements of what it wants without providing substantiated detail on how they work - and given the quality of politician these mostly just end up being hand woven suggestions of alternative arrangements/Blockchain/heat cameras on the border.

We won't be 'happy' until we start making actual and public proposals of our own that are negotiated, than just predominantly negotiating down the EU's proposals as they whittle down the rope. And it starts with actually engaging with the detail and NI businesses - something it appears is still not happening at a sufficient level.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The idea that the EU “humiliated” May, just as they “humiliated” Cameron before, seems as silly as saying self-described Anglophile Barnier shouldn’t have been in charge of negations because he’s French.

Cameron did not get the support he expected - not sure what's that classed as.

Cosmetically May was openly mocked by Barnier, Tusk and other EU figures, was put into staged situations where photos could be taken that embarrassed her.

More materially the rebuff of her Salzburg proposals' which was done very bluntly and without any of the normal diplomatic niceties finished her and gave her no room domestically to get a deal.

You may disagree with this but this is how it appeared in the UK and its this perception which mattered in terms of May being unable to negotiate a much closer relationship than the one we ended up with.

This is not how it appeared in the UK, it needs to be qualified by saying that's how it appeared to some people in the UK with a loose association with reality

[SaintK]

The idea that the EU “humiliated” May, just as they “humiliated” Cameron before, seems as silly as saying self-described Anglophile Barnier shouldn’t have been in charge of negations because he’s French.

Cameron did not get the support he expected - not sure what's that classed as.

Cosmetically May was openly mocked by Barnier, Tusk and other EU figures, was put into staged situations where photos could be taken that embarrassed her.

More materially the rebuff of her Salzburg proposals' which was done very bluntly and without any of the normal diplomatic niceties finished her and gave her no room domestically to get a deal.

You may disagree with this but this is how it appeared in the UK and its this perception which mattered in terms of May being unable to negotiate a much closer relationship than the one we ended up with.

Happy days

[Calculon]

Poor old May, she was quite capable of humiliating herself without any outside help. I readily admit I did not, and do not, follow the brexit drama as closely as many on here do, but from my outside perspective the idea that she was repeatedly humiliated by the EU was more a construct of sections of the British press to advance their own agenda.

I also think it reasonable that the EU took advantage of May's inept negotiation strategy and Britain's weakness at the time to get the best deal for them. Now that the UK is in a stronger position it's also not unreasonable for them to want changes to the protocol. I think the cycle might run a few more times before things settle down.

[dpedin]

Hindsight is 20/20 but maybe when deciding who to put in charge of the negotiations, someone who would subsequently run for President of a nation with whom we have 1,000 years of rivalry wasn't the call.

Who’s this “we”?

Hang on a minute ... 1,000 years of rivalry? Not true for Scotland. What about the Auld Alliance? We, as in Scotland, actually had, and still have, close and friendly links with France. Leith was a major port for import of French wines from the 15th century onwards, the RIE is built at Little France in Edinburgh where the French supporters of Mary Queen of Scots were camped and 12,000 Scots fought alongside the French in the 100 years war against the English.

Went to a wedding in France a few years ago and the nearby village of Aubigny-sur-Nère supplied the pipers for the wedding! It seems to be that the further south and east you go in the UK the stronger the anti French sentiment is?

[tc27]

Hindsight is 20/20 but maybe when deciding who to put in charge of the negotiations, someone who would subsequently run for President of a nation with whom we have 1,000 years of rivalry wasn't the call.

Who’s this “we”?

Hang on a minute ... 1,000 years of rivalry? Not true for Scotland. What about the Auld Alliance? We, as in Scotland, actually had, and still have, close and friendly links with France. Leith was a major port for import of French wines from the 15th century onwards, the RIE is built at Little France in Edinburgh where the French supporters of Mary Queen of Scots were camped and 12,000 Scots fought alongside the French in the 100 years war against the English.

Went to a wedding in France a few years ago and the nearby village of Aubigny-sur-Nère supplied the pipers for the wedding! It seems to be that the further south and east you go in the UK the stronger the anti French sentiment is?

A bit meaningless as Scotland (and England) have not had foreign policies as nation states for centuries. And most of it before that was dynastic not relations as we understand them today (also the material outcome of the 'auld alliance' was usually disastrous military adventures leaving lots of dead Scottish peasants in the north of England).

Find this element of modern Scottish nationalism strange - 99% of Scottish economic and social links are with England and the rest of the UK but apparently that's meaningless compared to centuries defunct dynastic alliances and endless propositions to revive non profitable ferry links to the Scandi nations.

[tc27]

The idea that the EU “humiliated” May, just as they “humiliated” Cameron before, seems as silly as saying self-described Anglophile Barnier shouldn’t have been in charge of negations because he’s French.

Cameron did not get the support he expected - not sure what's that classed as.

Cosmetically May was openly mocked by Barnier, Tusk and other EU figures, was put into staged situations where photos could be taken that embarrassed her.

More materially the rebuff of her Salzburg proposals' which was done very bluntly and without any of the normal diplomatic niceties finished her and gave her no room domestically to get a deal.

You may disagree with this but this is how it appeared in the UK and its this perception which mattered in terms of May being unable to negotiate a much closer relationship than the one we ended up with.

This is not how it appeared in the UK, it needs to be qualified by saying that's how it appeared to some people in the UK with a loose association with reality

Obviously not everyone is as clever as you but objectively it set the narrative and not just in the Tory press:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s-brussels

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45597063

[Tichtheid]

I know someone who has sat in on negotiations with the EU on behalf of other nations and organisations.

He said that the idea of "oven ready" or "easiest deal in history" was so far from the reality of negotiations with the EU that it was laughable, they play the hardest of hardball and either the UK representatives went in with their eyes closed or they were lying to the public, either way it reflects badly on the UK negotiators.

[dpedin]

Who’s this “we”?

Hang on a minute ... 1,000 years of rivalry? Not true for Scotland. What about the Auld Alliance? We, as in Scotland, actually had, and still have, close and friendly links with France. Leith was a major port for import of French wines from the 15th century onwards, the RIE is built at Little France in Edinburgh where the French supporters of Mary Queen of Scots were camped and 12,000 Scots fought alongside the French in the 100 years war against the English.

Went to a wedding in France a few years ago and the nearby village of Aubigny-sur-Nère supplied the pipers for the wedding! It seems to be that the further south and east you go in the UK the stronger the anti French sentiment is?

A bit meaningless as Scotland (and England) have not had foreign policies as nation states for centuries. And most of it before that was dynastic not relations as we understand them today (also the material outcome of the 'auld alliance' was usually disastrous military adventures leaving lots of dead Scottish peasants in the north of England).

Find this element of modern Scottish nationalism strange - 99% of Scottish economic and social links are with England and the rest of the UK but apparently that's meaningless compared to centuries defunct dynastic alliances and endless propositions to revive non profitable ferry links to the Scandi nations.

No - I just said the claim of a 1,000 years of rivalry between the French and the UK was historically wrong! Its got feck all to do with Scots nationalism and no-one said anything disparaging about economic and social links with England etc. Its amazing what some folk read into things and how much they want to make something out of nothing! It's really some size of a chip on your shudder tc27!

I however don't believe there is this 1,000 years of rivalry between Scotland and France, it is very much an English obsession not shared with all the UK and I do believe that the further south and east you go in the UK the more this anti French rhetoric grows.

[Tichtheid]

No - I just said the claim of a 1,000 years of rivalry between the French and the UK was historically wrong! Its got feck all to do with Scots nationalism and no-one said anything disparaging about economic and social links with England etc. Its amazing what some folk read into things and how much they want to make something out of nothing! It's really some size of a chip on your shudder tc27!

tc27 does to seem to view everything through the prism of Scottish nationalism.

I however don't believe there is this 1,000 years of rivalry between Scotland and France, it is very much an English obsession not shared with all the UK and I do believe that the further south and east you go in the UK the more this anti French rhetoric grows.

It's a bit like the obsession with Germany as a football rival (two world wars and one world cup!), whereas from what I gather the German fans don't see England as a rival at all, they see Holland or Italy as their big games.

[Paddington Bear]

Hindsight is 20/20 but maybe when deciding who to put in charge of the negotiations, someone who would subsequently run for President of a nation with whom we have 1,000 years of rivalry wasn't the call.

Who’s this “we”?

Hang on a minute ... 1,000 years of rivalry? Not true for Scotland. What about the Auld Alliance? We, as in Scotland, actually had, and still have, close and friendly links with France. Leith was a major port for import of French wines from the 15th century onwards, the RIE is built at Little France in Edinburgh where the French supporters of Mary Queen of Scots were camped and 12,000 Scots fought alongside the French in the 100 years war against the English.

Went to a wedding in France a few years ago and the nearby village of Aubigny-sur-Nère supplied the pipers for the wedding! It seems to be that the further south and east you go in the UK the stronger the anti French sentiment is?

Beyond giving you a chance to wang on about the Auld Alliance this seems a reasonably pointless discussion given everyone here knows damn well what I meant and it's still very common in official French circles to refer to the British as 'les anglais'. And it isn't like Scots were shrinking violets when it came to the French post-Union anyway so it's all a bit silly.

[tc27]

No - I just said the claim of a 1,000 years of rivalry between the French and the UK was historically wrong! Its got feck all to do with Scots nationalism and no-one said anything disparaging about economic and social links with England etc. Its amazing what some folk read into things and how much they want to make something out of nothing! It's really some size of a chip on your shudder tc27!

tc27 does to seem to view everything through the prism of Scottish nationalism.

I however don't believe there is this 1,000 years of rivalry between Scotland and France, it is very much an English obsession not shared with all the UK and I do believe that the further south and east you go in the UK the more this anti French rhetoric grows.

It's a bit like the obsession with Germany as a football rival (two world wars and one world cup!), whereas from what I gather the German fans don't see England as a rival at all, they see Holland or Italy as their big games.

Not sure that's a fair comment it was just a couple of lines of comment in a discussion that's pretty wide ranging and within the context of previous discussions its not outrageous for me to reference your (well established) nationalist PoV.

And as Paddington said you kinda lost the sensible high ground when you waxed on about a dynastic medieval/late medieval alliance which would be pretty silly even if the Scots had not spent the following centuries enthusiastically taking part in military adventures against the French state.

[Tichtheid]

No - I just said the claim of a 1,000 years of rivalry between the French and the UK was historically wrong! Its got feck all to do with Scots nationalism and no-one said anything disparaging about economic and social links with England etc. Its amazing what some folk read into things and how much they want to make something out of nothing! It's really some size of a chip on your shudder tc27!

tc27 does to seem to view everything through the prism of Scottish nationalism.

I however don't believe there is this 1,000 years of rivalry between Scotland and France, it is very much an English obsession not shared with all the UK and I do believe that the further south and east you go in the UK the more this anti French rhetoric grows.

It's a bit like the obsession with Germany as a football rival (two world wars and one world cup!), whereas from what I gather the German fans don't see England as a rival at all, they see Holland or Italy as their big games.

Not sure that's a fair comment it was just a couple of lines of comment in a discussion that's pretty wide ranging and within the context of previous discussions its not outrageous for me to reference your (well established) nationalist PoV.

And as Paddington said you kinda lost the sensible high ground when you waxed on about a dynastic medieval/late medieval alliance which would be pretty silly even if the Scots had not spent the following centuries enthusiastically taking part in military adventures against the French state.

Hang on, my only reference to the Auld Alliance was "who's this we?" when Paddington used the old England/UK synonym regarding a 1000 years of rivalry with France.

[dpedin]

tc27 does to seem to view everything through the prism of Scottish nationalism.



It's a bit like the obsession with Germany as a football rival (two world wars and one world cup!), whereas from what I gather the German fans don't see England as a rival at all, they see Holland or Italy as their big games.

Not sure that's a fair comment it was just a couple of lines of comment in a discussion that's pretty wide ranging and within the context of previous discussions its not outrageous for me to reference your (well established) nationalist PoV.

And as Paddington said you kinda lost the sensible high ground when you waxed on about a dynastic medieval/late medieval alliance which would be pretty silly even if the Scots had not spent the following centuries enthusiastically taking part in military adventures against the French state.

Hang on, my only reference to the Auld Alliance was "who's this we?" when Paddington used the old England/UK synonym regarding a 1000 years of rivalry with France.

I suspect this was directed at me rather than you Tichtheid, careful he will be after you as well! It seems that tc27 thinks he has the right to not only claim he knows everyones political leanings but to be critical of whatever he thinks they are whenever he wants regardless of topic or post made! This chip on his shoulder is obviously bigger than I thought!

[Biffer]

Oh look, another triumph of style over substance. Shower of arseholes in this government

[fishfoodie]

Build Back Bitter !

The price of beer in the UK is set to rise by 30p, even before any changes to the alcohol duty rate in Rishi Sunak’s autumn Budget.

More than eight in 10 pubs have already raised prices or plan to do so due to increased wages, issues around staff shortages and the ongoing energy and supply crisis, The Times reported.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 40891.html

These "very considerable upsides", the Brexit bulldog promised, just keep on coming.

[Marylandolorian]

Seems a bit extreme.