The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Jock42]

Not sure how Vellacott has managed to miss out.



Autumn Nations Training Squad

Forwards:

Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors – 13 caps

Nick Haining – Edinburgh Rugby – 8 caps

Hamish Watson – Edinburgh Rugby – 41 caps

Rory Darge – Glasgow Warriors – uncapped

Dylan Richardson – Cell C Sharks – uncapped

Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby – 27 caps

Luke Crosbie – Edinburgh Rugby – uncapped

Grant Gilchrist – Edinburgh Rugby – 45 caps

Jamie Hodgson – Edinburgh Rugby - uncapped

Rob Harley – Glasgow Warriors – 22 caps

Marshall Sykes – Edinburgh Rugby – uncapped

Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors – 38 caps

Oli Kebble – Glasgow Warriors – 8 caps

Murray McCallum – Glasgow Warriors – 3 caps

George Turner – Glasgow Warriors – 17 caps

Fraser Brown – Glasgow Warriors – 54 caps

Stuart McInally – Edinburgh Rugby – 40 caps

Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby – uncapped

Jamie Bhatti – Glasgow Warriors – 18 caps



Backs:

Rufus McLean – Glasgow Warriors – uncapped

Damien Hoyland – Edinburgh Rugby – 4 caps

Darcy Graham – Edinburgh Rugby – 19 caps

Cole Forbes – Glasgow Warriors – uncapped

Sione Tuipulotu – Glasgow Warriors – uncapped

Mark Bennett – Edinburgh Rugby – 22 caps

Matt Currie – Edinburgh Rugby – uncapped

Sam Johnson – Glasgow Warriors – 18 caps

James Lang – Edinburgh Rugby – 6 caps

Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors – 1 cap

Jack Blain – Edinburgh Rugby – uncapped

Blair Kinghorn – Edinburgh Rugby – 25 caps

Ross Thompson – Glasgow Warriors – uncapped

Charlie Savala – Edinburgh Rugby – uncapped

Ali Price – Glasgow Warriors – 42 caps

George Horne – Glasgow Warriors – 14 caps

Jamie Dobie - Glasgow Warriors - uncapped

[dkm57]

What's almost as interesting are the players who aren't included.

[clydecloggie]

No Vellacott is a surprise indeed.

I'd have expected Richie Gray as well.

good to see Forbes and McLean in; hardly a surprise but they have quickly established themselves as part of an electric Glasgow back-3. Tonga game might be perfect for them to take that to the international stage.

[dpedin]

I suspect we will see additions and drop outs from this squad after the first test. For example I will be amazed if Bayliss isnt capped in the AIs.

[Yr Alban]

No Dingwall. Ah well.

Wait. No Vellacott? WTAF? Why sign a SQ player to one of our pro teams if you don’t intend to pick him? Sure, the guy has previously turned down a call-up, and should have to earn his place on merit, but surely he’s done enough to do that already?

This only makes any sense if Blair has asked Toony not to pick him this time, so he can focus on getting him bedded in at Embra.

EDIT: have just looked at it properly and realised that this is URC players only (well, Embra and Glasgow and the new guy from the Sharks). So there’s still hope for Dingwall (and Bayliss, and Jones, etc). Still doesn’t explain Vellacott though.

[SaintK]

No Vellacott is a surprise indeed.

I'd have expected Richie Gray as well.

good to see Forbes and McLean in; hardly a surprise but they have quickly established themselves as part of an electric Glasgow back-3. Tonga game might be perfect for them to take that to the international stage.

If he's been playing like he did in the Prem then it is no surprise whatsoever!!!

[KingBlairhorn]

No Vellacott is a surprise indeed.

I'd have expected Richie Gray as well.

good to see Forbes and McLean in; hardly a surprise but they have quickly established themselves as part of an electric Glasgow back-3. Tonga game might be perfect for them to take that to the international stage.

If he's been playing like he did in the Prem then it is no surprise whatsoever!!!

He's been in great try scoring form and has looked electric in attack. His game control has been ropey to say the least though - I don't see him supplanting Price any time soon for Scotland, and I'd be surprised if he is anything but 3rd choice at this point behind Horne.

[KingBlairhorn]

Some very interesting uncapped players in there.

Matt currie, 2 pro appearances to his name, would be one of the greenest caps for Scotland ever I would think. I have heard he is very exciting though, and having seen a little of him in Super6 he looks the rare combination of big, fast and skillful we don't often produce.

Darge - well deserved. I feel bad for Crosbie who so deserved a cap over the summer and who is probably behind Darge in the pecking order now.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Rufus McLean, I really rate him. I said before he would make the squad this year and stay there and I still think that. He could be/is a really special talent.

Jack Blain - surprised to be honest, has been very peripheral every time I have seen him. Has size but doesn't really use it.

Thomson deserves a cap, good for him. Savala seems to have jumped Chamberlain as next cab off the rank at Edinburgh.

Dobie has had a bit of a dip this year and has still been at least good if not excellent. Another that I think is a special talent.

[Biffer]

With the whole Exeter thing raising its head again after Wasps have asked the RFU and premiership rugby to review the position, it's worth stating again that Glasgow are affected here too, with a home game to Exeter on 18th December. Should follow the lead of the Kansas City Chiefs and ban native headgear and facepaint from the stadium.

[Slick]

There are a lot of those players that haven’t been playing all that well really, presumably quite a few changes once the England based lads and Finn come back.

I’m not overly surprised by Vellacot not being in the group. He has looked sharp going forward but seems to disappear a bit when things aren’t going well or a bit of control needed. Early days of course, but those are the 3 nines I would have picked

[SaintK]

No Vellacott is a surprise indeed.

I'd have expected Richie Gray as well.

good to see Forbes and McLean in; hardly a surprise but they have quickly established themselves as part of an electric Glasgow back-3. Tonga game might be perfect for them to take that to the international stage.

If he's been playing like he did in the Prem then it is no surprise whatsoever!!!

He's been in great try scoring form and has looked electric in attack. His game control has been ropey to say the least though - I don't see him supplanting Price any time soon for Scotland, and I'd be surprised if he is anything but 3rd choice at this point behind Horne.

Always was!! Bit of a headless chicken as well.

[KingBlairhorn]

There are a lot of those players that haven’t been playing all that well really, presumably quite a few changes once the England based lads and Finn come back.

I’m not overly surprised by Vellacot not being in the group. He has looked sharp going forward but seems to disappear a bit when things aren’t going well or a bit of control needed. Early days of course, but those are the 3 nines I would have picked

Yeh, bit of a danger of complacency in the team selection with that squad I would say. Tonga should never be beating a Tier 1 nation, but that's not a Tier 1 squad.

I'd go for something like:

Schoeman; Turner; McCallum
Hodgson; Gilchrist
Crosbie; Darge; Fagerson
Horne; Thompson
Lang; Bennett
McLean; Steyn
Forbes

McInally; Bhatti; Fagerson; Sykes; Ritchie; Kinghorn; Dobie; Graham

[Yr Alban]

There are a lot of those players that haven’t been playing all that well really, presumably quite a few changes once the England based lads and Finn come back.

I’m not overly surprised by Vellacot not being in the group. He has looked sharp going forward but seems to disappear a bit when things aren’t going well or a bit of control needed. Early days of course, but those are the 3 nines I would have picked

Yeh, bit of a danger of complacency in the team selection with that squad I would say. Tonga should never be beating a Tier 1 nation, but that's not a Tier 1 squad.

I'd go for something like:

Schoeman; Turner; McCallum
Hodgson; Gilchrist
Crosbie; Darge; Fagerson
Horne; Thompson
Lang; Bennett
McLean; Steyn
Forbes

McInally; Bhatti; Fagerson; Sykes; Ritchie; Kinghorn; Dobie; Graham

Ahh - so that’s why. It’s because the game v Tonga isn’t on an international date. Which makes it a bit of a risky one for Scotland. Unlike Wales and Ireland, our core squad don’t play locally, so we’re in danger of fielding a team that looks more like a tour XV. The team you list has talent for sure, but it’s untried at best. The Tongans will sense an upset, I suspect.

[I like neeps]

There are a lot of those players that haven’t been playing all that well really, presumably quite a few changes once the England based lads and Finn come back.

I’m not overly surprised by Vellacot not being in the group. He has looked sharp going forward but seems to disappear a bit when things aren’t going well or a bit of control needed. Early days of course, but those are the 3 nines I would have picked

Yeh, bit of a danger of complacency in the team selection with that squad I would say. Tonga should never be beating a Tier 1 nation, but that's not a Tier 1 squad.

I'd go for something like:

Schoeman; Turner; McCallum
Hodgson; Gilchrist
Crosbie; Darge; Fagerson
Horne; Thompson
Lang; Bennett
McLean; Steyn
Forbes

McInally; Bhatti; Fagerson; Sykes; Ritchie; Kinghorn; Dobie; Graham

Ahh - so that’s why. It’s because the game v Tonga isn’t on an international date. Which makes it a bit of a risky one for Scotland. Unlike Wales and Ireland, our core squad don’t play locally, so we’re in danger of fielding a team that looks more like a tour XV. The team you list has talent for sure, but it’s untried at best. The Tongans will sense an upset, I suspect.

Well you have to remember we don't have our England and France based players so neither do Tonga. They'll be crap and it's best we aren't full noise.

[clydecloggie]

Tonga doesn't even have a coaching staff at the moment, nor a squad - they shouldn't pose too much of a problem.

[Yr Alban]

Yeh, bit of a danger of complacency in the team selection with that squad I would say. Tonga should never be beating a Tier 1 nation, but that's not a Tier 1 squad.

I'd go for something like:

Schoeman; Turner; McCallum
Hodgson; Gilchrist
Crosbie; Darge; Fagerson
Horne; Thompson
Lang; Bennett
McLean; Steyn
Forbes

McInally; Bhatti; Fagerson; Sykes; Ritchie; Kinghorn; Dobie; Graham

Ahh - so that’s why. It’s because the game v Tonga isn’t on an international date. Which makes it a bit of a risky one for Scotland. Unlike Wales and Ireland, our core squad don’t play locally, so we’re in danger of fielding a team that looks more like a tour XV. The team you list has talent for sure, but it’s untried at best. The Tongans will sense an upset, I suspect.

Well you have to remember we don't have our England and France based players so neither do Tonga. They'll be crap and it's best we aren't full noise.

Good point, well made

[Jock42]

You lot have just jinxed the fuck out of it. Tonga by 8.

[I like neeps]

Nathan McBeth incoming!

[KingBlairhorn]

Nathan McBeth incoming!

He's a loosehead? I don't know if it is confirmed that Kebble is moving to tighthead, if so Glasgow is probably the destination...? Having said that, Edinburgh are weak at loosehead beyond the two starters (Shoeman and Venter) with Grahamslaw next pick? Perhaps McBeth replaces Sutherland?

I'd hate to see either Lambert or Grahamslaw have their development stunted by this move, however I suppose that's competitive sport.

[Tichtheid]

Patrick Harrison is to join Wasps on a "short term deal"

Wasps are apparently very short of hookers at the moment, I hope the deal really is short, he gets some game time and heads back to Edinburgh the better for the experience.

[robmatic]

Patrick Harrison is to join Wasps on a "short term deal"

Wasps are apparently very short of hookers at the moment, I hope the deal really is short, he gets some game time and heads back to Edinburgh the better for the experience.

Seems like it is an actual loan, and that does make sense if our other hookers are injury free.

[KingBlairhorn]

Patrick Harrison is to join Wasps on a "short term deal"

Wasps are apparently very short of hookers at the moment, I hope the deal really is short, he gets some game time and heads back to Edinburgh the better for the experience.

How odd. You would think there would be someone with a bit more experience available, but perhaps they have salary cap issues. They have also signed a centre from Munster I've never heard of. What a brilliant experience for Patrick though. It seems he might actually get on the bench, maybe even some gametime:

"Still only 19 years of age, Harrison will help cover Gabriel Oghre while he serves his three-game ban for a dangerous tackle against Saints. Wasps could also be without Tom Cruse if he doesn't pass HIA return to play protocols while Alfie Barbeary is out with his hamstring tear - leaving Dan Frost as Wasps' only senior option in the pivotal front row position."

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport ... s-21857220

[mos_eisely_]

Patrick Harrison is to join Wasps on a "short term deal"

Wasps are apparently very short of hookers at the moment, I hope the deal really is short, he gets some game time and heads back to Edinburgh the better for the experience.

How odd. You would think there would be someone with a bit more experience available, but perhaps they have salary cap issues. They have also signed a centre from Munster I've never heard of. What a brilliant experience for Patrick though. It seems he might actually get on the bench, maybe even some gametime:

"Still only 19 years of age, Harrison will help cover Gabriel Oghre while he serves his three-game ban for a dangerous tackle against Saints. Wasps could also be without Tom Cruse if he doesn't pass HIA return to play protocols while Alfie Barbeary is out with his hamstring tear - leaving Dan Frost as Wasps' only senior option in the pivotal front row position."

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport ... s-21857220

They already had a couple injured, and at the weekend hey lost two in one game, one due to a head knock and the other for an offence that's led to a three game ban.

[Big D]

There are a lot of those players that haven’t been playing all that well really, presumably quite a few changes once the England based lads and Finn come back.

I’m not overly surprised by Vellacot not being in the group. He has looked sharp going forward but seems to disappear a bit when things aren’t going well or a bit of control needed. Early days of course, but those are the 3 nines I would have picked

Yeh, bit of a danger of complacency in the team selection with that squad I would say. Tonga should never be beating a Tier 1 nation, but that's not a Tier 1 squad.

I'd go for something like:

Schoeman; Turner; McCallum
Hodgson; Gilchrist
Crosbie; Darge; Fagerson
Horne; Thompson
Lang; Bennett
McLean; Steyn
Forbes

McInally; Bhatti; Fagerson; Sykes; Ritchie; Kinghorn; Dobie; Graham

I don't think you are far away with that. I do like the cut of Sykes jib. Back row is a weird one for this game, Ritchie would surely want the chance to captain the side and arguably Watson might need a few minutes before the bigger games but Darge has been great so far.

Would expect Tuipulotu to be capped, even if off the bench with Kinghorn maybe covering 10 and back 3.

If Thomson is getting a start then I think there would be a lot of sense in having either Price at 9 or Johnson at 12, but I guess he is familiar enough with any of the 9s in the squad and it is Toony so there needs to be a tombola aspect.

[clydecloggie]

There are a lot of those players that haven’t been playing all that well really, presumably quite a few changes once the England based lads and Finn come back.

I’m not overly surprised by Vellacot not being in the group. He has looked sharp going forward but seems to disappear a bit when things aren’t going well or a bit of control needed. Early days of course, but those are the 3 nines I would have picked

Yeh, bit of a danger of complacency in the team selection with that squad I would say. Tonga should never be beating a Tier 1 nation, but that's not a Tier 1 squad.

I'd go for something like:

Schoeman; Turner; McCallum
Hodgson; Gilchrist
Crosbie; Darge; Fagerson
Horne; Thompson
Lang; Bennett
McLean; Steyn
Forbes

McInally; Bhatti; Fagerson; Sykes; Ritchie; Kinghorn; Dobie; Graham

I don't think you are far away with that. I do like the cut of Sykes jib. Back row is a weird one for this game, Ritchie would surely want the chance to captain the side and arguably Watson might need a few minutes before the bigger games but Darge has been great so far.

Would expect Tuipulotu to be capped, even if off the bench with Kinghorn maybe covering 10 and back 3.

If Thomson is getting a start then I think there would be a lot of sense in having either Price at 9 or Johnson at 12, but I guess he is familiar enough with any of the 9s in the squad and it is Toony so there needs to be a tombola aspect.

Young Ross will probably have hardly played with Ali Price so might make sense to pair him with Horne if he is the 10 against Tonga.

[KingBlairhorn]

Yeh, bit of a danger of complacency in the team selection with that squad I would say. Tonga should never be beating a Tier 1 nation, but that's not a Tier 1 squad.

I'd go for something like:

Schoeman; Turner; McCallum
Hodgson; Gilchrist
Crosbie; Darge; Fagerson
Horne; Thompson
Lang; Bennett
McLean; Steyn
Forbes

McInally; Bhatti; Fagerson; Sykes; Ritchie; Kinghorn; Dobie; Graham

I don't think you are far away with that. I do like the cut of Sykes jib. Back row is a weird one for this game, Ritchie would surely want the chance to captain the side and arguably Watson might need a few minutes before the bigger games but Darge has been great so far.

Would expect Tuipulotu to be capped, even if off the bench with Kinghorn maybe covering 10 and back 3.

If Thomson is getting a start then I think there would be a lot of sense in having either Price at 9 or Johnson at 12, but I guess he is familiar enough with any of the 9s in the squad and it is Toony so there needs to be a tombola aspect.

Young Ross will probably have hardly played with Ali Price so might make sense to pair him with Horne if he is the 10 against Tonga.

My thinking was, with three tough games after this one, that none of the starters for the first 15 are likely to start. On that basis Richie, Watson, Johnson and Price are out. I also thought it was unlikely that we would put too many uncapped players into the starting 15. As it is, I've still got Schoeman, Darge, Thompson, McLean and Forbes. 5 debutants in one match is very risky. On that basis I've gone for an experienced midfield to help all the green backfield players. Its tougher to do that in the pack, so I would say there's a strong chance the likes of Harley might start at either lock or 6, with Fagerson the most likely to drop out (if he's in the main 23).

[mos_eisely_]

Fuck me this is a seriously excellent appointment

https://www.edinburghrugby.org/the-club ... ching-team

[FalseBayFC]

Nathan McBeth incoming!

LOL You should be ashamed of your selectors. They're filling their boots with Saffers now. This little shitstain played SA u20 and Scotland u20 in one year! Doesn't seem to have much in the way of national pride.

Capture11.PNG (13.37 KiB) Viewed 1336 times

[FalseBayFC]

If you're a Scottish age grade prop you may as well give up any hopes of ever playing for your country.

[Slick]

Nathan McBeth incoming!

LOL You should be ashamed of your selectors. They're filling their boots with Saffers now. This little shitstain played SA u20 and Scotland u20 in one year! Doesn't seem to have much in the way of national pride.

Capture11.PNG

Meh, you tried to steal Huw Jones.

[KingBlairhorn]

Fuck me this is a seriously excellent appointment

https://www.edinburghrugby.org/the-club ... ching-team

Can’t say I know anything about him. Is he well regarded? An assistant attack coach gig at Edinburgh suggests not that highly, to be honest…

[I like neeps]

Nathan McBeth incoming!

LOL You should be ashamed of your selectors. They're filling their boots with Saffers now. This little shitstain played SA u20 and Scotland u20 in one year! Doesn't seem to have much in the way of national pride.

Capture11.PNG

His name is McBeth mate this one is fine.

Otherwise I mostly agree the JokBok thing is getting out of hand.

[mos_eisely_]

Fuck me this is a seriously excellent appointment

https://www.edinburghrugby.org/the-club ... ching-team

Can’t say I know anything about him. Is he well regarded? An assistant attack coach gig at Edinburgh suggests not that highly, to be honest…

One of the best 7s coaches, and sounds like as happened with Ben Ryan he's had enough of the Fijian rugby politics.

This is his pedigree with Fiji 7s, more than just average

[FalseBayFC]

Nathan McBeth incoming!

LOL You should be ashamed of your selectors. They're filling their boots with Saffers now. This little shitstain played SA u20 and Scotland u20 in one year! Doesn't seem to have much in the way of national pride.

Capture11.PNG

His name is McBeth mate this one is fine.

Otherwise I mostly agree the JokBok thing is getting out of hand.

Yes but if he knew he was going to defect, why take the Junior Bok shirt away from a kid who was a genuine patriot. Its like he knew having an u20 Springbok cap would boost his value. I'm of the opinion that the badge on an international jersey is worth more than that.

I'm the grandson of a Lockerbie kid who moved to South Africa. My grandpa was always a Scottish patriot, but him and his brother fought with the Springbok legion in El Alemein and Tobruk. My grandpa's brother died in that campaign. That qualifies him as both a Scot and a Saffer. Our rugby traditions are built on some amazing history. The professional game and the demand of big business unfortunately cheapens that tradition.

After the Boks, the Scottish team is always my second favourite team. My favourite vintage is the Calcutta Cup winning Scotland team of 1990. I watched that on an remote army base in Namibia on VHS 3 weeks after the game. None of us knew the result and we all cheered for the underdogs.

[I like neeps]

LOL You should be ashamed of your selectors. They're filling their boots with Saffers now. This little shitstain played SA u20 and Scotland u20 in one year! Doesn't seem to have much in the way of national pride.

Capture11.PNG

His name is McBeth mate this one is fine.

Otherwise I mostly agree the JokBok thing is getting out of hand.

Yes but if he knew he was going to defect, why take the Junior Bok shirt away from a kid who was a genuine patriot. Its like he knew having an u20 Springbok cap would boost his value. I'm of the opinion that the badge on an international jersey is worth more than that.

I'm the grandson of a Lockerbie kid who moved to South Africa. My grandpa was always a Scottish patriot, but him and his brother fought with the Springbok legion in El Alemein and Tobruk. My grandpa's brother died in that campaign. That qualifies him as both a Scot and a Saffer. Our rugby traditions are built on some amazing history. The professional game and the demand of big business unfortunately cheapens that tradition.

After the Boks, the Scottish team is always my second favourite team. My favourite vintage is the Calcutta Cup winning Scotland team of 1990. I watched that on an remote army base in Namibia on VHS 3 weeks after the game. None of us knew the result and we all cheered for the underdogs.

To be fair be played for us because he played for your under20s. Bizarrely he couldn't get a start for our under20s and then got the jwrc final with yours.

[FalseBayFC]

His name is McBeth mate this one is fine.

Otherwise I mostly agree the JokBok thing is getting out of hand.

Yes but if he knew he was going to defect, why take the Junior Bok shirt away from a kid who was a genuine patriot. Its like he knew having an u20 Springbok cap would boost his value. I'm of the opinion that the badge on an international jersey is worth more than that.

I'm the grandson of a Lockerbie kid who moved to South Africa. My grandpa was always a Scottish patriot, but him and his brother fought with the Springbok legion in El Alemein and Tobruk. My grandpa's brother died in that campaign. That qualifies him as both a Scot and a Saffer. Our rugby traditions are built on some amazing history. The professional game and the demand of big business unfortunately cheapens that tradition.

After the Boks, the Scottish team is always my second favourite team. My favourite vintage is the Calcutta Cup winning Scotland team of 1990. I watched that on an remote army base in Namibia on VHS 3 weeks after the game. None of us knew the result and we all cheered for the underdogs.

To be fair be played for us because he played for your under20s. Bizarrely he couldn't get a start for our under20s and then got the jwrc final with yours.

I am terribly bitter about his defection because I rate him rather highly. He's also a hometown boy and a Shark. I really do wish him all the best though. You guys have got a good one there.

[FalseBayFC]

Nathan McBeth on the other hand is no loss to us and my coaching contacts reckon he'll physically never make it at senior level.

[KingBlairhorn]

LOL You should be ashamed of your selectors. They're filling their boots with Saffers now. This little shitstain played SA u20 and Scotland u20 in one year! Doesn't seem to have much in the way of national pride.

Capture11.PNG

His name is McBeth mate this one is fine.

Otherwise I mostly agree the JokBok thing is getting out of hand.

That qualifies him as both a Scot and a Saffer.

I mean you’ve literally explained the reality of these situations right there. For many people it is possible to feel more than one nationality at once, it’s not binary. Cam Redpath for instance, he grew up in England and all of his friends are English so he feels/felt English. His dad was captain of Scotland and I’m certain he spent most/all of his youth cheering for us. He can be both and it’s not for us to tell him he must be one or the other.

I’m sure Louis Lynah or Manu Vunipola or any number of other players feel similarly. Content yourself with the fact that every time one of these situations arises, the big team who have a chance to win things are in the driving seat. Very few players for whom the door is genuinely open for a top class England/NZ/SA etc. career choose the little teams like Scotland.

[Tichtheid]

Tommaso/Tommy/Tam Allan's uncle John played for Scotland and then for South Africa, back when you could do such a thing.

[KingBlairhorn]

Tommaso/Tommy/Tam Allan's uncle John played for Scotland and then for South Africa, back when you could do such a thing.

Exactly, and Tommy was Scottish as shortbread until he wasn’t offered a pro contract here. He then started calling himself Tommaso and declared for Italy. Good for him. I’m fairly sure his order of preference would have been SA, Scotland, Italy though.