Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Torquemada 1420]

Amess would have been anti-abortion because he was a Roman Catholic, rather than a “pro-life extremist”.

Sorry. My bad in typing. I meant the killer being an anti pro-life extremist.

[Slick]

Have I Got News For You pulled this evening. Stupid fucking Somalian

[salanya]

Have I Got News For You pulled this evening. Stupid fucking Somalian

It's reported as a Stupid fucking British National.

But an awful murder. RIP . Horrible for his poor wife and family.

The political discourse/atmosphere hasn't improved much since Jo Cox, but that's no excuse for any individual to attack and murder an elected official doing his job.

Or any person obviously. Knife crime is crazily prevalent. Such intolerance and disrespect for life.

[Slick]

Have I Got News For You pulled this evening. Stupid fucking Somalian

It's reported as a Stupid fucking British National.

But an awful murder. RIP . Horrible for his poor wife and family.

The political discourse/atmosphere hasn't improved much since Jo Cox, but that's no excuse for any individual to attack and murder an elected official doing his job.

Or any person obviously. Knife crime is crazily prevalent. Such intolerance and disrespect for life.

Depends which outlet you read, which really is part of the problem

[sockwithaticket]

As for thread title, mehhh. It didn't state "all Tories are scum".

Yeah, didn't see the issue to be honest. Always saw it as a thread to highlight where Tories have been acting in a scummy fashion rather than it being a judgment on the whole party.

[Enzedder]

Is it just the fucking Tories who shouldn't be voted for?

What about the useless ones? or the good one?

[_Os_]

Only Labour are a truly UK party, as in they're formed by the UK itself (particularly the industrial revolution/organised workers), the Libdems and Tories are really English parties the ideas behind both can be traced back to the opposing sides in the civil war. As the UK has fragmented Labour has been the most damaged of the big three parties, they relied on the Celts and the industrial north of England to win power, they're not winning the Celts back and the industrial north is more or less a rust belt without organised workers. The weaker the UK becomes the weaker Labour becomes too, it doesn't seem to matter what Labour does. I cannot see any circumstances that Labour wins a lot of seats from the Tories in the south of England, they'll be doing well just to hold the seats they have UK wide.

Interesting post, but regarding the bit I've quoted, Labour need to win in England, it doesn't matter how the vote goes in Scotland, there just aren't enough constituencies to make a difference and some of them will be vulnerable to the Tories. I think I'm right in saying that there were only two or three small majorities for Labour wins where Scotland actually mattered, Blair, for example won with a majority greater than the number of Scottish and Welsh seats combined and increased that majority at the next election (this is from memory, so I might be mistaken, but I will be close if not exactly correct).
Norn Irn is its own entity.

Unavoidably this is going to be another long post.

The first question is, literally what is the UK? The conventional view is something like "English speaking, some varying national identities but all the same really", it's this view that means somewhere like Australia is viewed as comparable to the UK. But the UK isn't an Australia, it's not somewhere that's so homogonised that someone would be equally likely to have a name that's distinctly Irish/Welsh/Scottish/English no matter where in the UK they're from. If you go on a database that shows the geographical distribution names across the UK, you'll find distinct geographical clusters of different names and not an equal spread. For example, Harold the last Anglo-Saxon king (died at Hastings in 1066) came from the house of Godwin, if you search for the name "Godwin" you find 1000 years later that "Godwin" is almost purely located in what was Wessex.
So the first layer to "what is the UK?" is something totally alien to what the UK is today, it's a heap of extinct regional English cultures and dialects and Welsh/Irish/Scots cultures and languages totally dominant in their regions. One corner of the UK would simply be so foreign to another they wouldn't be able to communicate. The important bit being, under the surface this primordial wiring is still intact, they just all speak English now and have acquired more shared culture.
The second layer is anglicisation, English dominance meant standardised English language and culture through religion/education/work, this was only really completed in the Empire where old identities and classes were totally destroyed (in SA a white English speaker with the name "Jones" or "Murphy" or "McDonald" is not regarded as having a fundamentally separate identity to a "Smith").
Finally the third layer is migration post-WW2, mostly from the former Empire, from memory a third of births in the UK are to a mother that isn't white. So this layer will become 30%-40% of the UK population not long from now.

What does this have to go with Scotland? It becomes really simple to see what ignoring Scotland means when you're not thinking in terms of the second layer (the way most think of the UK), and instead think about what abandoning Scotland means in the context of the first and third layer.

What it means is you're perfectly willing to abandon anyone else too. The third layer often literally think of themselves as minorities on a emotional level (much more viscerally and ever present to them than some detached identity), any party making a narrow play for the English vote will always lose a lot of potential support from racial minorities. It's the same in any multiracial society, racial minorities only vote for parties that are for everyone and have an inclusive outlook/attitude/policies (or for small nationalist parties only seeking to represent their own racial group, but these typically have less appeal), they never vote for parties seeking the support of some electorally significant group which doesn't include them. The first layer works in a similar way but it's more subterranean, basically if a party isn't for everyone some in the north of England will wonder how long they're going to be tolerated before being abandoned too (although some in the north have opted for the nationalist route, significant numbers first using UKIP as the vehicle, then the Tories after UKIP essentially dissolved into them). So if you ignore Scotland and Wales, which makes an inclusive British identity impossible and instead favour England, there's ironically going to be people in England that wonder if you're really for them.

You can start to see how hard this is for Labour. When their electoral coalition was/is: Celts, north of England, racial minorities, metropolitan middle class in the south of England. They have to hold that together in the context of nationalist parties trying (often successfully) to eat into them and British identity itself fragmenting/dying. If they were to do what you say, then they would just end up part of the dismantling. So even if there's not much returns for them in Scotland they have no option but to keep trying.

It's worth noting Wales is a bit different to Scotland. Plaid Cymru is associated with Welsh speakers and the middle class. A not insignificant number of Welsh have a weaker Anglo identity than most other Celts, which actually makes it harder for their nationalist party to gain the broader stranglehold the SNP has obtained. It would be totally insane for Labour to give up on the valleys. Plaid Cymru may get to where the SNP is and overwhelm Welsh Labour, but not yet.

As for the Tories. They're mostly operating in layer two. This isn't always obvious. Take Priti Patel for example, her background is Ugandan Asian, the thing about East African Asians is they didn't have an Indian or African identity (in contrast to SA, Afrikaners literally means Africans, and SA Indians call themselves Indians), they instead have a British identity, and the reason they originally valued that identity was because being British gave them rights black Africans did not have (but less rights than the Europeans, who were white and British). So when people say Priti Patel's family are immigrants, that's not really true because they had a British identity in the Empire (that Indians in India, or in SA which was the largest Indian population outside India, both did not have). A lot of people with Ugandan Asian backgrounds backed Brexit, the subtext was that for them European was something they could never be, but British was. When someone like this says they're British, they're not referring to an inclusive identity, they really mean something straight out of the Empire that is highly exclusive and intended to advantage them over others. This flies over the head of every UK commentator, because they're not African.

The Libdems, are only really operating in layer two also. There's been desperate attempts from them to operate in layer three, but Labour is nearly totally dominant there. In layer one they've got strong support in some areas of Scotland and in the South West of England, bit of a stretch to say they've got large regional identities completely committed to them like Labour has though.

We're in an age obsessed with identity, so all this crap has an out sized role unfortunately. The South African-isation of politics. Madness.

[Line6 HXFX]

I see the right wing press are going after the unemployed again, because Brexit is a fucking disaster.

So if you are told to go to an interview or to go to a job by the jobcentre, "hey Refry, turn up on Monday at 8.00pm and a bus will take you to a field where you can pick fruit" and you don't go or you take the piss you get sanctioned like the day after.
This has been the situation forever.
So where is the gynormous hole in this situation where all the unemployed can hide?
Because apparently there is.
Are they supposed to be sendibg genetic clones to do their work?
After ten years of sone of the harshest welfare reforms on the planet, we are going to stick it to unemployed all over again.


The problem with self serving contempt is that it can never be satiated, no matter what pain and sufferring you inflict.
Nothing is ever going to be enough for the right wing, because it is not what you force the target of your self serving contempt to do, it just serves the right wing to have the contempt so they do..no matter what you have previously done.
This is how you hit the fascism, pure unadulterated cruelty level, with no buffers.
Criminalising the unemployed, taking away their freedoms entirely, there is even talk of conscription, because one group have self serving contempt, and think they have a easy distracting target.

The unemployed must be protected by law now, it must be a criminal offence to smear and slander the unemployed.
Otherwise the deadly self serving contempt the right have, will just go on and on and on and on.
Lots of this country are knee deep in blood, they know it and they don't care.

[Torquemada 1420]

As for the Tories. They're mostly operating in layer two. This isn't always obvious. Take Priti Patel for example, her background is Ugandan Asian, the thing about East African Asians is they didn't have an Indian or African identity (in contrast to SA, Afrikaners literally means Africans, and SA Indians call themselves Indians), they instead have a British identity, and the reason they originally valued that identity was because being British gave them rights black Africans did not have (but less rights than the Europeans, who were white and British). So when people say Priti Patel's family are immigrants, that's not really true because they had a British identity in the Empire (that Indians in India, or in SA which was the largest Indian population outside India, both did not have). A lot of people with Ugandan Asian backgrounds backed Brexit, the subtext was that for them European was something they could never be, but British was. When someone like this says they're British, they're not referring to an inclusive identity, they really mean something straight out of the Empire that is highly exclusive and intended to advantage them over others. This flies over the head of every UK commentator, because they're not African.

Yup. Very good. The Tories finally woke up (see what I did there?) into populating the party with token ethics. Darkies with exactly the same poisonous, elitist ideology as their white brothers: Patel and Sunak being prime examples.

[Kawazaki]

Wow, the post-rationalisation is strong in this thread. Blacks aren't really blacks and immigrants aren't really immigrants if they don't hold certain beliefs. This is the trick the Left has pulled for generations - keep the poor poor and you keep the poor voting Labour. Well, I've got news for you, many people have stopped believing that old chestnut.

[Calculon]

Have I Got News For You pulled this evening. Stupid fucking Somalian

It's reported as a Stupid fucking British National.

But an awful murder. RIP . Horrible for his poor wife and family.

The political discourse/atmosphere hasn't improved much since Jo Cox, but that's no excuse for any individual to attack and murder an elected official doing his job.

Or any person obviously. Knife crime is crazily prevalent. Such intolerance and disrespect for life.

Depends which outlet you read, which really is part of the problem

According to the BBC a British national of Somalian descent

Government sources have told the BBC he is a British national who, from initial inquiries, appears to be of Somali heritage.

The Metropolitan Police said there was a potential link to Islamist extremism.

.

He might be an Islamic nutter so his excuse for the murder might be any number of perceived slights against Islam. Not sure why Toga would think Amess being a brexiteer is relevant.

[Kawazaki]

Why wouldn't the views of Amess on Brexit be a possible motive?

[Calculon]

EUhu Akbar, indeed

[Ymx]

Why wouldn't the views of Amess on Brexit be a possible motive?

What are there?

Brexit ? It’s more about Europe than Africa. But I guess there are links to anti immigration with some people. Was Amess of that ilk?

Christianity/Catholicity? And or an Islamic fuckwit just intent on murdering people, and using it as his stage?

Something local which had happened by his hand, affecting this particular mans livelihood.

Mental health issues

[Line6 HXFX]

The threat of sanctions is so gawdamned self defeating on the unemployed though.
I remember once I had a job interview in the Heath Cardiff, doing I.T work, that I was well qualified for and had plenty of experience of.
Down I went suited and booted, full of confidence, arrived half an hour early with the letter, went to reception and they had no idea where the department was (as it was new).
I would go up and down corridors desperately trying to find it and asking people, knowing if didn't make it,after the jobcentre paid for my bus ticket I would have been sanctioned for three months "no excuses".
I was in a terrible state.
By the time I found the place (it was in a extremely obscure part of the hospital) I was so wound up(failure to get there would mean being sanctioned and having my entire life thrown into complete chaos) I completely fucked the interview.
So what did the threats of sanctions achieve that day?

Other than turnibg me (someone more than capable and experienced) into an unemployable nervous and distressed wreck.
Of course there was also that three month period where my job advisor stressed me out so much, by not telling me what she wanted, and only telling me the consequences of which I would face if I didn't give it to her, I had a massive heart attack, where my heart practically exploded in my chest.
It cost the hard done by crybaby taxpayers a fucking fortune to treat me.
So what did the threat of sanctions achieve that day?

I mean I know the people who hate the unemployed have a massive wank whenever one of them perish, but seriously?
Ironically, a year later the job centre stressed my out so much again, my GP had to put me on the stick to stop them giving me another one.
The sick note read "extreme anxiety and distress caused by the Job Centre".
When i handed it in they honestly couldn't have given less of a shit.
And they are going after the unemployed again.

[Kawazaki]

Why wouldn't the views of Amess on Brexit be a possible motive?

What are there?

Brexit ? It’s more about Europe than Africa. But I guess there are links to anti immigration with some people. Was Amess of that ilk?

Christianity/Catholicity? And or an Islamic fuckwit just intent on murdering people, and using it as his stage?

Something local which had happened by his hand, affecting this particular mans livelihood.

Mental health issues

If you read the thread, I wrote that Amess campaigned for Brexit before the arrested man's ethnicity was known and that anti-terrorist officers were involved.

[Blackmac]

I see the right wing press are going after the unemployed again, because Brexit is a fucking disaster.

So if you are told to go to an interview or to go to a job by the jobcentre, "hey Refry, turn up on Monday at 8.00pm and a bus will take you to a field where you can pick fruit" and you don't go or you take the piss you get sanctioned like the day after.
This has been the situation forever.
So where is the gynormous hole in this situation where all the unemployed can hide?
Because apparently there is.
Are they supposed to be sendibg genetic clones to do their work?
After ten years of sone of the harshest welfare reforms on the planet, we are going to stick it to unemployed all over again.


The problem with self serving contempt is that it can never be satiated, no matter what pain and sufferring you inflict.
Nothing is ever going to be enough for the right wing, because it is not what you force the target of your self serving contempt to do, it just serves the right wing to have the contempt so they do..no matter what you have previously done.
This is how you hit the fascism, pure unadulterated cruelty level, with no buffers.
Criminalising the unemployed, taking away their freedoms entirely, there is even talk of conscription, because one group have self serving contempt, and think they have a easy distracting target.

The unemployed must be protected by law now, it must be a criminal offence to smear and slander the unemployed.
Otherwise the deadly self serving contempt the right have, will just go on and on and on and on.
Lots of this country are knee deep in blood, they know it and they don't care.

To be fair, it isn't just extreme examples like farm work. Look at nursing. They have made the job such an exhausting, overworked shitshow, constantly demanding more for less, that there are now 10's of thousands of vacancies. The attrition rate is huge and no one sees it as a career anymore.. Just because there are more jobs than unemployed doesn't mean that we can fill them.

[Tichtheid]

What does this have to go with Scotland? It becomes really simple to see what ignoring Scotland means when you're not thinking in terms of the second layer (the way most think of the UK), and instead think about what abandoning Scotland means in the context of the first and third layer.

Another interesting post, I'll take my time and re-read it a couple of times to digest it properly.

On Scotland, Labour have to win a UK election without Scotland, there is a good New Statesman article here from historian Tom Devine on the demise of Labour in Scotland and the reasons for their predicament.

As someone else pointed out up there in the thread somewhere, any kind of proposed progressive alliance with the SNP will send voters running, shrieking and waving their hands in the air, to the Tories in England, so Labour are on their own.

[SaintK]

Why wouldn't the views of Amess on Brexit be a possible motive?

What are there?

Brexit ? It’s more about Europe than Africa. But I guess there are links to anti immigration with some people. Was Amess of that ilk?

Christianity/Catholicity? And or an Islamic fuckwit just intent on murdering people, and using it as his stage?

Something local which had happened by his hand, affecting this particular mans livelihood.

Mental health issues

If you read the thread, I wrote that Amess campaigned for Brexit before the arrested man's ethnicity was known and that anti-terrorist officers were involved.

..............so what's the connection?

[Slick]

Yeah. Title of this thread doesn't add a lot to any political discourse and is probably a reflection of the increased polarisation within political discussion. It's just a bit cringey, but whatever.

Terrible news this afternoon.

Very sad and distressing news - feel for his family and friends.

Yes indeed it is and and I agree completely
Whilst there will now be an outpouring of anger and grief from the political classes, just to remind, someone will be stabbed to death roughly every 36 hours in England in 2021!!!

Think this is a bit of a daft post to be honest, Saint. Whilst everyone will have people grieving for them, there is a fundamental difference between some wanker getting stabbed in a drug deal gone wrong and an elected Parliamentarian being killed doing his job.

[SaintK]

Very sad and distressing news - feel for his family and friends.

Yes indeed it is and and I agree completely
Whilst there will now be an outpouring of anger and grief from the political classes, just to remind, someone will be stabbed to death roughly every 36 hours in England in 2021!!!

Think this is a bit of a daft post to be honest, Saint. Whilst everyone will have people grieving for them, there is a fundamental difference between some wanker getting stabbed in a drug deal gone wrong and an elected Parliamentarian being killed doing his job.

I don't think it's daft to point out that over 250 people will be stabbed to death this year. And of course not all of them are drug dealing wankers or gang members but are innocent people going about their daily work as Amess was.

[GogLais]

As an aside - in the good old days there wouldn't have been constituency surgeries. MPs weren't there to intercede with the local authority or whoever about their constituents' day to day problems. If you were unhappy about the state of the roads you complained to your Councillor.

[ASMO]

Boris and his gang of cunts i guarantee will seek to gain political capital from this tragedy.

I am under no doubt that gruppenfuhrer Patel is wringing her hands at the opportunity being presented to her to remove more freedoms from the public.

[SaintK]

Hancock's reputation goes before him!!

Matt Hancock, the former UK health secretary, will no longer become a special envoy for the United Nations, after the job offer was withdrawn.
Hancock said on Tuesday that he was “honoured” to be working with the UN’s Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA) to help the continent recover from the pandemic.
However, campaigners objected to the appointment because of his record in government during the coronavirus crisis, and on Friday the UN’s official spokesperson said the appointment “would not be taken forward”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58940128

[Kawazaki]

Yes indeed it is and and I agree completely
Whilst there will now be an outpouring of anger and grief from the political classes, just to remind, someone will be stabbed to death roughly every 36 hours in England in 2021!!!

Think this is a bit of a daft post to be honest, Saint. Whilst everyone will have people grieving for them, there is a fundamental difference between some wanker getting stabbed in a drug deal gone wrong and an elected Parliamentarian being killed doing his job.

I don't think it's daft to point out that over 250 people will be stabbed to death this year. And of course not all of them are drug dealing wankers or gang members but are innocent people going about their daily work as Amess was.

Jesus wept. There's some low levels of empathy about nowadays.

[SaintK]

Think this is a bit of a daft post to be honest, Saint. Whilst everyone will have people grieving for them, there is a fundamental difference between some wanker getting stabbed in a drug deal gone wrong and an elected Parliamentarian being killed doing his job.

I don't think it's daft to point out that over 250 people will be stabbed to death this year. And of course not all of them are drug dealing wankers or gang members but are innocent people going about their daily work as Amess was.

Jesus wept. There's some low levels of empathy about nowadays.

I share the same feelings about it as everyone else who has commented on this thread. I'm sure they'll try and tighten up the safety for MP's again as they attempted to do after Jo Cox.

[Ymx]

Yes indeed it is and and I agree completely
Whilst there will now be an outpouring of anger and grief from the political classes, just to remind, someone will be stabbed to death roughly every 36 hours in England in 2021!!!

Think this is a bit of a daft post to be honest, Saint. Whilst everyone will have people grieving for them, there is a fundamental difference between some wanker getting stabbed in a drug deal gone wrong and an elected Parliamentarian being killed doing his job.

I don't think it's daft to point out that over 250 people will be stabbed to death this year. And of course not all of them are drug dealing wankers or gang members but are innocent people going about their daily work as Amess was.

I think it’s the underlying message of your statement- who cares, it’s just another stabbing statistic, and is getting disproportionate attention.

Perhaps that is not what you are saying, but it sounded like it.

[ASMO]

Think this is a bit of a daft post to be honest, Saint. Whilst everyone will have people grieving for them, there is a fundamental difference between some wanker getting stabbed in a drug deal gone wrong and an elected Parliamentarian being killed doing his job.

I don't think it's daft to point out that over 250 people will be stabbed to death this year. And of course not all of them are drug dealing wankers or gang members but are innocent people going about their daily work as Amess was.

I think it’s the underlying message of your statement- who cares, it’s just another stabbing statistic, and is getting disproportionate attention.

Perhaps that is not what you are saying, but it sounded like it.

Ok i will bite and say openly i dont fucking care, i am so worn out by this shitshow of a country and the lying corrupt cunts that run it (all sides). The press throwing up a new scare story every week and causing panic, just so worn down by it all.

The only people i care about now are my own family and friends, i dont know Amess, never met him, whilst it is a tragedy for his famiy, i personally dont give a fuck.

[Ymx]

quality rant.

Though, I think it is significant. We are talking about a public figure head, probable terrorism, and a very public and savage execution.

As for this hatred for the Tories. I’d say it is this echo chamber of hatred of a thread that has exacerbated it by and for many of you.

[Lobby]

As an aside - in the good old days there wouldn't have been constituency surgeries. MPs weren't there to intercede with the local authority or whoever about their constituents' day to day problems. If you were unhappy about the state of the roads you complained to your Councillor.

Given that MPs have been holding constituency surgeries since the 1920s at least, and their use had become almost universal by the mid-60s, I have to ask how old you are that you can recall ‘the good old days’ before there were constituency surgeries?

[Slick]

I don't think it's daft to point out that over 250 people will be stabbed to death this year. And of course not all of them are drug dealing wankers or gang members but are innocent people going about their daily work as Amess was.

I think it’s the underlying message of your statement- who cares, it’s just another stabbing statistic, and is getting disproportionate attention.

Perhaps that is not what you are saying, but it sounded like it.

Ok i will bite and say openly i dont fucking care, i am so worn out by this shitshow of a country and the lying corrupt cunts that run it (all sides). The press throwing up a new scare story every week and causing panic, just so worn down by it all.

The only people i care about now are my own family and friends, i dont know Amess, never met him, whilst it is a tragedy for his famiy, i personally dont give a fuck.

Up to you if you don’t give a fuck about Amess himself, but you certainly should give a fuck about an MP being assassinated

[Kawazaki]

I don't think it's daft to point out that over 250 people will be stabbed to death this year. And of course not all of them are drug dealing wankers or gang members but are innocent people going about their daily work as Amess was.

I think it’s the underlying message of your statement- who cares, it’s just another stabbing statistic, and is getting disproportionate attention.

Perhaps that is not what you are saying, but it sounded like it.

Ok i will bite and say openly i dont fucking care, i am so worn out by this shitshow of a country and the lying corrupt cunts that run it (all sides). The press throwing up a new scare story every week and causing panic, just so worn down by it all.

The only people i care about now are my own family and friends, i dont know Amess, never met him, whilst it is a tragedy for his famiy, i personally dont give a fuck.

Well you're just part of the problem then aren't you?

Quick anecdote: my eldest daughter is 11. She did Brownies and now she does Guides. The woman who runs the Guides is in her late 60s. She's been organising Guides since she was in her 30s. She's also a retired teacher. In 30 years I have no idea how much time she must have spent volunteering to help young girls grow and develop but it will be multiple thousands of hours. I admire her immensely, she puts me to to shame with her dedication, energy and selflessness. And there are 1000s, millions perhaps people just like her all over the UK. I'm sure Amess was probably more like her than I am, and more like her than you are.

Don't believe all the awful people on Twitter, the country isn't anything like as bad as awful cunts like Piers Morgan, Femi Oluwole and Owen Jones would love you to believe it is. They thrive on misery, don't feed them.

[ASMO]

I think it’s the underlying message of your statement- who cares, it’s just another stabbing statistic, and is getting disproportionate attention.

Perhaps that is not what you are saying, but it sounded like it.

Ok i will bite and say openly i dont fucking care, i am so worn out by this shitshow of a country and the lying corrupt cunts that run it (all sides). The press throwing up a new scare story every week and causing panic, just so worn down by it all.

The only people i care about now are my own family and friends, i dont know Amess, never met him, whilst it is a tragedy for his famiy, i personally dont give a fuck.

Up to you if you don’t give a fuck about Amess himself, but you certainly should give a fuck about an MP being assassinated

No more than i am about the same happenning to any other innocent person.

[Slick]

Ok i will bite and say openly i dont fucking care, i am so worn out by this shitshow of a country and the lying corrupt cunts that run it (all sides). The press throwing up a new scare story every week and causing panic, just so worn down by it all.

The only people i care about now are my own family and friends, i dont know Amess, never met him, whilst it is a tragedy for his famiy, i personally dont give a fuck.

Up to you if you don’t give a fuck about Amess himself, but you certainly should give a fuck about an MP being assassinated

No more than i am about the same happenning to any other innocent person.

Well then, yeah, you are part of the problem

[Ymx]

No one is saying his life is worth more.

But it is more significant and therefore news worthy than a Joe public being stabbed for his iPhone.

Although some were implying that’s not the case.

And no doubt discussing this tragedy is not in tune with the threads theme and many of its incumbents views.

[SaintK]

Think this is a bit of a daft post to be honest, Saint. Whilst everyone will have people grieving for them, there is a fundamental difference between some wanker getting stabbed in a drug deal gone wrong and an elected Parliamentarian being killed doing his job.

I don't think it's daft to point out that over 250 people will be stabbed to death this year. And of course not all of them are drug dealing wankers or gang members but are innocent people going about their daily work as Amess was.

I think it’s the underlying message of your statement- who cares, it’s just another stabbing statistic, and is getting disproportionate attention.

Perhaps that is not what you are saying, but it sounded like it.

Wasn't my intention. I wanted to draw attention to how often murder by stabbing happens in England.

[tabascoboy]

Poor Africa, is he really the best (or only?) candidate?

and gooonnneee!

Matt Hancock's United Nations role withdrawn

Former Health Secretary Matt Hancock has had a job offer from the United Nations withdrawn.

Mr Hancock announced this week that he had been given a role helping Africa's economy recover from Covid.

The UN said he would bring valuable experience - but Mr Hancock now says a rule has come to light that prevents him from taking the job while an MP.

Leading figures across Africa and UK opposition parties had criticised the UN's choice of the MP for the role.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58940128

He's a walking, talking disaster zone...

[Random1]

I think it’s the underlying message of your statement- who cares, it’s just another stabbing statistic, and is getting disproportionate attention.

Perhaps that is not what you are saying, but it sounded like it.

Ok i will bite and say openly i dont fucking care, i am so worn out by this shitshow of a country and the lying corrupt cunts that run it (all sides). The press throwing up a new scare story every week and causing panic, just so worn down by it all.

The only people i care about now are my own family and friends, i dont know Amess, never met him, whilst it is a tragedy for his famiy, i personally dont give a fuck.

Well you're just part of the problem then aren't you?

Quick anecdote: my eldest daughter is 11. She did Brownies and now she does Guides. The woman who runs the Guides is in her late 60s. She's been organising Guides since she was in her 30s. She's also a retired teacher. In 30 years I have no idea how much time she must have spent volunteering to help young girls grow and develop but it will be multiple thousands of hours. I admire her immensely, she puts me to to shame with her dedication, energy and selflessness. And there are 1000s, millions perhaps people just like her all over the UK. I'm sure Amess was probably more like her than I am, and more like her than you are.

Don't believe all the awful people on Twitter, the country isn't anything like as bad as awful cunts like Piers Morgan, Femi Oluwole and Owen Jones would love you to believe it is. They thrive on misery, don't feed them.

Absolutely. The country is doing fine. We’ve got lots to work on, but necessity will drive our invention.

The one aspect that I am concerned about is actually being played out in this Fred - there are people (internal and external) trying to divide us into tribes and categories, and we’re at risk of falling apart and losing what makes us a great place to live.

Our democracy is central to this and so, yes, I agree, murdering an MP is more significant to the country than most other murders.

Not sure why that’s controversial.

[Tichtheid]

Ok i will bite and say openly i dont fucking care, i am so worn out by this shitshow of a country and the lying corrupt cunts that run it (all sides). The press throwing up a new scare story every week and causing panic, just so worn down by it all.

The only people i care about now are my own family and friends, i dont know Amess, never met him, whilst it is a tragedy for his famiy, i personally dont give a fuck.

Well you're just part of the problem then aren't you?

Quick anecdote: my eldest daughter is 11. She did Brownies and now she does Guides. The woman who runs the Guides is in her late 60s. She's been organising Guides since she was in her 30s. She's also a retired teacher. In 30 years I have no idea how much time she must have spent volunteering to help young girls grow and develop but it will be multiple thousands of hours. I admire her immensely, she puts me to to shame with her dedication, energy and selflessness. And there are 1000s, millions perhaps people just like her all over the UK. I'm sure Amess was probably more like her than I am, and more like her than you are.

Don't believe all the awful people on Twitter, the country isn't anything like as bad as awful cunts like Piers Morgan, Femi Oluwole and Owen Jones would love you to believe it is. They thrive on misery, don't feed them.

Absolutely. The country is doing fine. We’ve got lots to work on, but necessity will drive our invention.

The one aspect that I am concerned about is actually being played out in this Fred - there are people (internal and external) trying to divide us into tribes and categories, and we’re at risk of falling apart and losing what makes us a great place to live.

Our democracy is central to this and so, yes, I agree, murdering an MP is more significant to the country than most other murders.

Not sure why that’s controversial.

Dearie me, the country is NOT doing fine.

I don't remember it being so polarised since 1984, there is a pandemic on and our daily case rate is terrible, the supply chain issues are well publicised, the government is a mixture of corruption and ineptitude, we've just left a a huge trading partner where there was a great deal of security, there is a very real chance that Scotland will leave the Union, the Good Friday Agreement is under attack and it could very well lead to violence being back on the streets of Ulster and elsewhere on these islands.

We are not doing fine.

[sockwithaticket]

Well you're just part of the problem then aren't you?

Quick anecdote: my eldest daughter is 11. She did Brownies and now she does Guides. The woman who runs the Guides is in her late 60s. She's been organising Guides since she was in her 30s. She's also a retired teacher. In 30 years I have no idea how much time she must have spent volunteering to help young girls grow and develop but it will be multiple thousands of hours. I admire her immensely, she puts me to to shame with her dedication, energy and selflessness. And there are 1000s, millions perhaps people just like her all over the UK. I'm sure Amess was probably more like her than I am, and more like her than you are.

Don't believe all the awful people on Twitter, the country isn't anything like as bad as awful cunts like Piers Morgan, Femi Oluwole and Owen Jones would love you to believe it is. They thrive on misery, don't feed them.

Absolutely. The country is doing fine. We’ve got lots to work on, but necessity will drive our invention.

The one aspect that I am concerned about is actually being played out in this Fred - there are people (internal and external) trying to divide us into tribes and categories, and we’re at risk of falling apart and losing what makes us a great place to live.

Our democracy is central to this and so, yes, I agree, murdering an MP is more significant to the country than most other murders.

Not sure why that’s controversial.

Dearie me, the country is NOT doing fine.

I don't remember it being so polarised since 1984, there is a pandemic on and our daily case rate is terrible, the supply chain issues are well publicised, the government is a mixture of corruption and ineptitude, we've just left a a huge trading partner where there was a great deal of security, there is a very real chance that Scotland will leave the Union, the Good Friday Agreement is under attack and it could very well lead to violence being back on the streets of Ulster and elsewhere on these islands.

We are not doing fine.

Even prior to recent issues of Covid and Brexit - chronic wage stagnation, continuous fall in real terms purchasing power, under-employment, private monopolies on key public services (rail, certain utilities) delivering services at grotesque mark ups with no possibility of competition to assist consumers, 10 years of Tories reducing the manpower of the police and health service alongside sundry other cuts, ever rising food bank usage and rates of homlessness etc. etc.