Alec Baldwin shooting

[Uncle fester]

Flipping awful tragedy but surely there's a better way than using real guns (albeit unloaded) on filum sets?

[Ymx]

Flipping awful tragedy but surely there's a better way than using real guns (albeit unloaded) on filum sets?

Especially given how simple CGI is?

It’s madness. Who takes the fall for this?

Was it actual live rounds that made it in to the gun?

[Torquemada 1420]

Flipping awful tragedy but surely there's a better way than using real guns (albeit unloaded) on filum sets?

There is a lot odd about this. Staff walking off set before the incident apparently citing safety concerns as an issue. Also, I assumed it was a dummy round gone wrong but some reports stating it was a live one!

[Niegs]

Something I read, source unknown, speculated there might have been a live round put in for a close up of a gun being loaded and the wrangler forgetting to clear or handed the wrong one?

Maybe that was speculation, but if you think about the sheer number of films and TV shows that have guns these days, the protocols must be pretty good.

At the risk of wilder speculation, a murder mystery plot of someone setting up the star (happened in a Magnum PI ep, probably half a dozen other shows) seems almost more likely given how regulated that process must be!

[ScarfaceClaw]

I’ve owned guns, been in a pistol club, fired a lot of different guns. The moment someone hands you a gun you assume all responsibility for it. Even if someone says it isn’t loaded, it is your responsibility to be sure and always always check.

I can’t understand how there isn’t a protocol with orange cable tie or something through the barrel, or the gun being open (revolver or slide). The actor/director/producer/whoever then clearly demonstrates checking, setting and showing the weapon is safe.

[Ymx]

I’ve owned guns, been in a pistol club, fired a lot of different guns. The moment someone hands you a gun you assume all responsibility for it. Even if someone says it isn’t loaded, it is your responsibility to be sure and always always check.

I can’t understand how there isn’t a protocol with orange cable tie or something through the barrel, or the gun being open (revolver or slide). The actor/director/producer/whoever then clearly demonstrates checking, setting and showing the weapon is safe.

They were using blanks, so presumably it needs to be a fully functional weapon? Also it’s a Western so needs visible moving parts.

[Lobby]

Something I read, source unknown, speculated there might have been a live round put in for a close up of a gun being loaded and the wrangler forgetting to clear or handed the wrong one?

Maybe that was speculation, but if you think about the sheer number of films and TV shows that have guns these days, the protocols must be pretty good.

At the risk of wilder speculation, a murder mystery plot of someone setting up the star (happened in a Magnum PI ep, probably half a dozen other shows) seems almost more likely given how regulated that process must be!

According to the court records that have been released, the gun was handed to Alec Baldwin by an Assistant director who told him the gun was safe. Assistant director Dave Halls did not know the prop contained live ammunition and indicated it was unloaded by shouting "cold gun!"

This shouldn’t have been able to happen. There are a whole set of protocols around the use of weapons on film sets. Real guns should never be used, and live ammunition shouldn’t be anywhere near a set. Even when blanks are used, there are a lot of procedures that have to be gone through both before and after the gun is fired to make sure that the weapon is not live, and is also thoroughly cleaned after each firing. It is quite common now for weapons not to be fired on set because of all the extra time required to go through the safety protocols..

It is being suggested that the film was using non-unionized crew members to save costs; it’s possible that this resulted the normal safety procedures not being followed.

[Lobby]

I’ve owned guns, been in a pistol club, fired a lot of different guns. The moment someone hands you a gun you assume all responsibility for it. Even if someone says it isn’t loaded, it is your responsibility to be sure and always always check.

I can’t understand how there isn’t a protocol with orange cable tie or something through the barrel, or the gun being open (revolver or slide). The actor/director/producer/whoever then clearly demonstrates checking, setting and showing the weapon is safe.

They were using blanks, so presumably it needs to be a fully functional weapon? Also it’s a Western so needs visible moving parts.

Real guns should not be used under any circumstances. Although prop guns are smithed from real guns, they should be modified to fire blanks safely and under strict protocols.

[Ymx]

Yeah. It’s all so weird. Low budget film, bad working conditions, crew walking out, and very odd with the weapon getting a live round in it.

Baldwin was heard shouting out “you handed me a hot weapon” or similar.

[ScarfaceClaw]

Yeah. It’s all so weird. Low budget film, bad working conditions, crew walking out, and very odd with the weapon getting a live round in it.

Baldwin was heard shouting out “you handed me a hot weapon” or similar.

I still don’t get this. Anyone hands me a gun and the first thing I’ve done is check that it is safe. Blanks don’t have a bullet. They’re just wadding. Shells with a bullet don’t have a primer. I just can’t get my head around someone who would take on faith that a gun you’re about to point at someone is safe.

[Ymx]

Alec Baldwin was handed a loaded prop gun by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use, moments before the actor fatally shot his crew member, according to court documents.

Dave Halls shouted "cold gun" before handing him the firearm on the set of the new Western movie Rust, a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court showed.

The documents suggest neither Baldwin nor Halls knew the weapon was loaded with live rounds.

The details have emerged as reports suggest the head armourer on the film had said she didn't feel ready to do the job on a previous movie, and two crew members told the Los Angeles Times a weapon had been unintentionally fired twice in the days before the fatal shooting.

Baldwin's stunt double had been told the prop firearm wasn't loaded, including with blanks, before he fired the two rounds last Saturday, according to two crew members who spoke to the paper.

The Los Angeles Times is also reporting that half a dozen camera crew workers had walked off set in protest against working conditions hours before the fatal shooting of Halyna Hutchins on Thursday.

The employees felt safety protocols were not being strictly adhered to on the set in Santa Fe, New Mexico, sources told the paper.

They added that at least one camera operator had complained to a production manager about gun safety.

Rust Movie Productions has said it was "not made aware of any official complaints concerning weapon or prop safety on set" and will conduct an internal review of procedures.

It comes as Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the head armourer in charge of guns on the film, reportedly said she wasn't sure if she was ready for the position before taking up the role on a previous movie.

Speaking in an interview after completing a role as head armourer for the Nicolas Cage film The Old Way, Ms Gutierrez-Reed said: "'I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready, but doing it, it went really smoothly."

The armourer is also said to have admitted she found loading blanks into a gun "the scariest" thing and had sought help from her father, the renowned gunsmith Thell Reed, to overcome her fear.

In the wake of Thursday's shooting, the executive producer of ABC's police drama "The Rookie" announced the show would no longer use "live" weapons because the "safety of our cast and crew is too important".

Hutchins was struck in the chest and director Joel Souza, who was standing behind her, was hit in the shoulder after Baldwin discharged the prop firearm.

The 42-year-old cinematographer died, while Mr Souza was injured and has since been released from hospital.

Investigators obtained the warrant on Friday to document the scene where the incident took place.

The weapon that was fired was taken as evidence, along with Baldwin's blood-stained costume for the film.

Investigators also seized prop guns and ammunition that were being used on the set.

The weapon that was fired had been placed on a cart by Ms Gutierrez-Reed, along with two other guns.

Mr Halls grabbed the gun from the cart, which was outside a wooden structure where a scene was being acted, and brought it inside to Baldwin, a detective wrote in the court documents.

Meanwhile, the film's script supervisor, Mamie Mitchell, said she was standing next to Ms Hutchins when she was shot.

"I ran out and called 911 and said 'bring everybody, send everybody'," she said.

"This woman is gone at the beginning of her career. She was an extraordinary, rare, very rare woman."

Baldwin said he was devastated by the shooting in a tweet on Friday.

"There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother, and deeply admired colleague of ours," he wrote.

"I'm fully co-operating with the police investigation to address how this tragedy occurred and I am in touch with her husband, offering my support to him and his family.

“My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna."

Rust's production has been halted and the company making the film said it is providing counselling services to everyone connected with it.

Meanwhile, Ms Hutchins' husband Matt Hutchins posted a tribute on Twitter expressing his family's "enormous" loss, along with a photo of the cinematographer.

Baldwin's daughter, Ireland, has said she wished she could hug her dad "extra tight" following the incident.

Writing on Instagram, she said: "My love and support go to Halyna Hutchins' family and friends. Sending healing thoughts to Joel Souza."

Baldwin was seen outside the sheriff's office in tears after the shooting on Thursday.

Detectives said he willingly provided a statement.

Juan Rios, a spokesman for the sheriff's office, said the investigation remains open and active.

No charges have been filed and witnesses continue to be interviewed by detectives, he said.

The incident has been compared with the death of Brandon Lee, son of the late martial arts star Bruce Lee, who died while filming a death scene for the movie The Crow in 1993 when he was 28 years old.

The .44-calibre weapon used was supposed to fire a blank but an autopsy revealed a bullet lodged near his spine.

[Ymx]

That’s a lot of failures.

- Gun handler being out of her depth and incompetent
- Placing a gun with live ammo on a cart for use
- The guy who took it, didn’t check it, and proclaimed it was cold to Baldwin
- Baldwin not verifying it himself

[Tichtheid]

That’s a lot of failures.

- Gun handler being out of her depth and incompetent
- Placing a gun with live ammo on a cart for use
- The guy who took it, didn’t check it, and proclaimed it was cold to Baldwin
- Baldwin not verifying it himself

The whole episode is just awful.

Should the actor have to be in the position of verifying that the gun was not loaded with live ammunition?

I understand that there is a series of checks, and that this particular actor might know about guns and live bullets, but what if they don't?

eg, most Brit actors wouldn't have a clue about guns and ammunition

[Ymx]

I was thinking about that, and how actors barely know how to brush their own teeth.

But thinking about it. There is no way an actor could or should handle a gun without full safety training.

[Tichtheid]

This is in no way comparable, but the Martin guitar company lent a vintage instrument to the makers of the Hateful 8, there is a scene where Kurt Russell smashes the guitar, he thought it was a cheap prop, but it was a 145 year old treasure.

It's nothing compared to a life, zero, but the lack of checks are in the same ballpark

[Ymx]

That’s a funny anecdote.

Though with guns, I’d say he’d have needed training as he had to actually fire them. And obviously safety would be very well covered given the added danger. This is more significant than even discharging them in a target range.

[Ymx]

Anyhow, I’m off. Night.

[Tichtheid]

That’s a funny anecdote.

Though with guns, I’d say he’d have needed training as he had to actually fire them. And obviously safety.

First, it's not funny to a guitar aficionado, but that is by the by.

I have to ask why they are using "proper" guns at any time - we used to use cowboy looking guns with reels of "caps" to make a bang, there is no need to use real guns anywhere near a film set, is there?

If so, why?

Surely a dummy gun and sound effects will do the job?

[Grandpa]

That’s a funny anecdote.

Though with guns, I’d say he’d have needed training as he had to actually fire them. And obviously safety would be very well covered given the added danger. This is more significant than even discharging them in a target range.

Though do you need training if you are never using a proper gun with live bullets? These are prop guns with blanks... so should be no risk? That a live bullet got in... and wasn't noticed seems bizarre... it's like being given a stunt car with no brakes...

[Gumboot]

In the days leading up to the fatal incident, there were troubling signs regarding safety on the set. Two crew members told the Los Angeles Times that Baldwin’s stunt double had fired two rounds Oct. 16 from a gun he had been told was “cold.” Hours before Thursday’s shooting, several crew members walked off the production in protest over what they saw as subpar conditions and unpaid work, the Times reported.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-ent ... -shooting/

Yet this tragedy was still allowed to happen. WTF?

[Grandpa]

In the days leading up to the fatal incident, there were troubling signs regarding safety on the set. Two crew members told the Los Angeles Times that Baldwin’s stunt double had fired two rounds Oct. 16 from a gun he had been told was “cold.” Hours before Thursday’s shooting, several crew members walked off the production in protest over what they saw as subpar conditions and unpaid work, the Times reported.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-ent ... -shooting/

Yet this tragedy was still allowed to happen. WTF?

Did Baldwin actually fire a shot.. or did it just go off?

Similar to this?

"A report from the Los Angeles Times revealed that several crew members from the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE) had been advocating for safer work conditions during filming.[6] A crew member added, "We cited everything from lack of payment for three weeks, taking our hotels away despite asking for them in our deals, lack of Covid safety, and on top of that, poor gun safety! Poor on-set safety period!"[7] The complaints also mentioned that a prop gun had misfired three times.[6] On October 21, seven members of the film's camera crew decided to leave the set in a walkout and were replaced by four non-union members six hours before the incident took place."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_(upc ... g_incident

[Gumboot]

How in hell were any misfiring weapons still allowed on the set after those earlier incidents? No wonder crew members were walking off the job. Beggars belief really.

[Grandpa]

How in hell were any misfiring weapons still allowed on the set after those earlier incidents? No wonder crew members were walking off the job. Beggars belief really.

It does beggar belief... and someone needs to be held accountable rather than it being deemed an "accident".

[Gumboot]

How in hell were any misfiring weapons still allowed on the set after those earlier incidents? No wonder crew members were walking off the job. Beggars belief really.

It does beggar belief... and someone needs to be held accountable rather than it being deemed an "accident".

Oh I think someone will be in deep deep shit over this, including the shooter (Baldwin) and the producer (also Baldwin). Also probably including a few more people not called Baldwin.

[Dismal Pillock]

FFS just use toy guns you stupid cunts, we suspend enough of our belief with your idiotic movie playtime narratives featuring the same familiar faces going around and around doing the pretend acting bullshit, we can indulge you some toy guns and some tinpot fake bang bang noises if it prevents you from actually killing each other in real life.

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed

Looks like a highly responsible and meticulously organised Health and Safety sort....

Enough of that shit

[Ymx]

It’s going to be difficult for there not to be a man slaughter ruling. But who from the bunch is primarily responsible?

Ms G-Reed, Mr Halls, Mr Baldwin or Mr Baldwin

[charltom]

In the days leading up to the fatal incident, there were troubling signs regarding safety on the set. Two crew members told the Los Angeles Times that Baldwin’s stunt double had fired two rounds Oct. 16 from a gun he had been told was “cold.” Hours before Thursday’s shooting, several crew members walked off the production in protest over what they saw as subpar conditions and unpaid work, the Times reported.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-ent ... -shooting/

Yet this tragedy was still allowed to happen. WTF?

Did Baldwin actually fire a shot.. or did it just go off?

Similar to this?

"A report from the Los Angeles Times revealed that several crew members from the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE) had been advocating for safer work conditions during filming.[6] A crew member added, "We cited everything from lack of payment for three weeks, taking our hotels away despite asking for them in our deals, lack of Covid safety, and on top of that, poor gun safety! Poor on-set safety period!"[7] The complaints also mentioned that a prop gun had misfired three times.[6] On October 21, seven members of the film's camera crew decided to leave the set in a walkout and were replaced by four non-union members six hours before the incident took place."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_(upc ... g_incident

If a gun misfires, that is when the intention is for it to fire but, for whatever reason (usually because of the primer) it doesn't go off. You then keep it pointed in a safe direction (in case of the extremely rare delayed fire) for half a minute before unloading and checking the round.

The simple case here is that, whatever other errors were made, Baldwin didn't check the gun himself. You don't handle firearms without safety training, and one of the first rules in that training is to check any firearm as you receive it. Every time.

Any shooter knows that. If Baldwin had ever had any safety training, he'd have known that. If he ignored it...

[Ymx]

Yeah, that’s pretty much what scarface was suggesting too.

Baldwin to take responsibility here, despite whatever signed affidavits he’s had staff sign.

[Calculon]

Making the actor responsible for gun safety seems like a bad idea, better leave it to the professionals who are trained in it and do it for a living. Also worth bearing in mind of the thousands of American movies and TV show shows that have involve guns, incidents like this are incredibly rare. I think this is only the second time something like this has happened.

[Lobby]

Making the actor responsible for gun safety seems like a bad idea, better leave it to the professionals who are trained in it and do it for a living. Also worth bearing in mind of the thousands of American movies and TV show shows that have involve guns, incidents like this are incredibly rare. I think this is only the second time something like this has happened.

According to this Guardian article, it appears to be the third time someone has been fatally shot on a film, the other two being Brandon Lee and Charles Chandler, who was an extra on Cecil B de Mille’s 1915 film The Captive. He was shot by a live bullet fired from a rifle. But the point stands, accidents like this are incredibly rare.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/o ... ec-baldwin

[Uncle fester]

Need to mention that Halyna Hutchins was a very fine piece of womanhood.

[fishfoodie]

Making the actor responsible for gun safety seems like a bad idea, better leave it to the professionals who are trained in it and do it for a living. Also worth bearing in mind of the thousands of American movies and TV show shows that have involve guns, incidents like this are incredibly rare. I think this is only the second time something like this has happened.

It's a ridiculous idea !; what happens if the actor is a minor ?

The actor is there to act; not to be an expert on all the props in use in the scene; or else people will be demanding they are mechanics, & parachute riggers etc.

If companies are going to insist on using guns that are capable of being lethal; then they need to first be challenged hard over the real need; & if they continue demanding them; they need to take the measures necessary to protect everyone on the set.

In this case you can see the signs of a broken safety system; with a serious of less serious incidents, & signs of proper procedures being casually ignored. There is no way in hell; a producer should be picking a weapon off a table & handing it to an actor. The only person who should be handing a weapon to an actor who will pull that weapons trigger; is the expert who loaded the weapon. NO.ONE.ELSE !

[Woddy]

Totally agree with FF: if, as here, there is a full safety system put in place with a paid, professional armourer / wrangler who is responsible for ensuring weapons are safe, an actor is entitled to rely on that system.

On the other hand, the producer (and others) might be in trouble for not ensuring that that system is actually safe.

[Ymx]

Well, I’d say legally the buck stops with the person with the weapon.

[Torquemada 1420]

Yeah. It’s all so weird. Low budget film, bad working conditions, crew walking out, and very odd with the weapon getting a live round in it.

Baldwin was heard shouting out “you handed me a hot weapon” or similar.

I still don’t get this. Anyone hands me a gun and the first thing I’ve done is check that it is safe. Blanks don’t have a bullet. They’re just wadding. Shells with a bullet don’t have a primer. I just can’t get my head around someone who would take on faith that a gun you’re about to point at someone is safe.

There should have been no lives rounds period. If filming loading, the dummies would do.

[Calculon]

Well, I’d say legally the buck stops with the person with the weapon.

So if it is a child actor doing the scene they are legally responsible for ensuring the prop gun is safe? I'm guessing you're not an actual lawyer right?

[Lobby]

Well, I’d say legally the buck stops with the person with the weapon.

So if it is a child actor doing the scene they are legally responsible for ensuring the prop gun is safe? I'm guessing you're not an actual lawyer right?

Its the film company's responsibility to ensure safe systems are in operation, so any liability will rest with the company and the producers, rather than with the actors. Its just the same as any accident in a workplace; generally liability will rest with the company rather than with individual employees, unless it can be shown that an individual wilfully ignored all the safety procedures in place.

Baldwin may still be in trouble, but not because he was the actor who pulled the trigger, but because its his production company.

However, although there have been a number of fatal accidents on film sets over the years, I think only one person has ever been sent to prison as a result. The most likely result is a big insurance payout rather than criminal charges.

[charltom]

Yeah. It’s all so weird. Low budget film, bad working conditions, crew walking out, and very odd with the weapon getting a live round in it.

Baldwin was heard shouting out “you handed me a hot weapon” or similar.

I still don’t get this. Anyone hands me a gun and the first thing I’ve done is check that it is safe. Blanks don’t have a bullet. They’re just wadding. Shells with a bullet don’t have a primer. I just can’t get my head around someone who would take on faith that a gun you’re about to point at someone is safe.

There should have been no lives rounds period. If filming loading, the dummies would do.

Are you not aware of how different they look?

[Torquemada 1420]

There should have been no lives rounds period. If filming loading, the dummies would do.

Are you not aware of how different they look?

Did you read the claimed explanation?

[Line6 HXFX]

Some disgruntled (there were many on set apparently) trying to fuck up baldwins life, or trying to fuck up the movie, by getting a live round through?

I am not usually the one to go straight to the conspiracy theory, but America is fucking nuts now.