The Official English Rugby Thread

[JM2K6]

Of course you do.

[Kawazaki]

Thought it was a good game between what I'd argue are the two best teams in the country.

Including the England national team.

[SaintK]

Billy V out for a month

Vunipola underwent a scan after leaving the field in the final minutes of the 29-22 victory over the champions, with Saracens announcing a “positive” update on Tuesday morning.
“He suffered a minor ligament injury, however it is expected that he will return to action in late November,” read a statement from the club.
The injury would also rule Vunipola out of a late recall to the England squad for the Autumn Nations series, which starts at Twickenham against Tonga – for whom his father Feʻao appeared 34 times – on Saturday.

[sockwithaticket]

Its that time of year where the English rugby press redundantly point out that the RFU is richer than whichever Pacific Island nation we play.

The Telegraph's headline pits the amount an England player could earn across all three matches, including a bonus for 3 wins, against the Tongan union's match fee for their players.

£70,000 vs. £500

Apparently the RFU are planning on making a goodwill gesture to Tonga and a development partnership.

I don't remember hearing anything about the disparity of fees in the Scotland - Tonga game.


I'm never sure what the point of these articles is. Tonga's a nation of 100k, there's just no way their finances can compete with those of larger nations and if it's anyone's job to subsidise them, is it not World Rugby?

[Paddington Bear]

There's a discussion to be had about how we split revenue with the Pacific Islands for these games but the general tone of these articles every year is dumb.

[SaintK]

Its that time of year where the English rugby press redundantly point out that the RFU is richer than whichever Pacific Island nation we play.

The Telegraph's headline pits the amount an England player could earn across all three matches, including a bonus for 3 wins, against the Tongan union's match fee for their players.

£70,000 vs. £500

Apparently the RFU are planning on making a goodwill gesture to Tonga and a development partnership.

I don't remember hearing anything about the disparity of fees in the Scotland - Tonga game.


I'm never sure what the point of these articles is. Tonga's a nation of 100k, there's just no way their finances can compete with those of larger nations and if it's anyone's job to subsidise them, is it not World Rugby?

Lazy journalism,
You are absolutely correct. This is a World Rugby issue not solely England's

"That's just the system we work with," said Tonga chief executive Peter Harding. "We are not being treated any differently to Australia or South Africa."

The RFU said in July it would make a "goodwill gesture of a donation" towards the Tongan Rugby Union and announced a development partnership which will see both bodies swapping coaches and support staff.

"What we will be able to get is access to expertise to help and assist local staff population and have a really good exchange of ideas," Harding said.

[sockwithaticket]

There's a discussion to be had about how we split revenue with the Pacific Islands for these games but the general tone of these articles every year is dumb.

Should Tonga get more than Fiji? Fiji's 9 times bigger after all.

What's the cut off for splitting revenue with a tier 2 nation?

I'd also be loathe to give any money while sticky fingered politicians remain part of their union hierarchy.

[Kawazaki]

The English and French clubs do far more for the development of rugby in the Pacific Islands than World Rugby. Far more. Without them, their national teams would be full of amateurs and it would be unsafe for Tier 1 sides to play against them.

[sockwithaticket]

The Guardian have gone with a more measured headline of "England players to bank £70,000 each for winning all three autumn Tests"

Also claim that the RFU's goodwill gesture will be a 6 figure donation to the Tongan union.

[Kawazaki]

I'd also be loathe to give any money while sticky fingered politicians remain part of their union hierarchy.

I've often thought that. Perhaps the way to make sure the players aren't screwed is for Tier 1 host unions to make a payment to the Tongan union and then pay a match fee to the Tongan players directly as well?

[inactionman]

Apparently Faletau laving Bath for Cardiff next season.

Great. Not sure if having Faletau as first choice at 8 was a reason for Mercer leaving, but leaves a position of recent theoretical strength looking a lot lighter (ignoring the fact he's had a few long term injuries of late and hasn't played this season)

[Kawazaki]

Apparently Faletau laving Bath for Cardiff next season.

Great. Not sure if having Faletau as first choice at 8 was a reason for Mercer leaving, but leaves a position of recent theoretical strength looking a lot lighter (ignoring the fact he's had a few long term injuries of late and hasn't played this season)

Serious question: Do Bath Rugby have an academy worthy of the name? Who is/are/were Bath Academy graduates?

[sockwithaticket]

Apparently Faletau laving Bath for Cardiff next season.

Great. Not sure if having Faletau as first choice at 8 was a reason for Mercer leaving, but leaves a position of recent theoretical strength looking a lot lighter (ignoring the fact he's had a few long term injuries of late and hasn't played this season)

Serious question: Do Bath Rugby have an academy worthy of the name? Who is/are/were Bath Academy graduates?

Others will know better than me, but I'm pretty sure the following are - Bailey, Ojomoh, de Glanville, Clark, Reid, Hamer-Webb,

[sockwithaticket]

I'd also be loathe to give any money while sticky fingered politicians remain part of their union hierarchy.

I've often thought that. Perhaps the way to make sure the players aren't screwed is for Tier 1 host unions to make a payment to the Tongan union and then pay a match fee to the Tongan players directly as well?

I think there's more scrutiny over spend these days, but Dan Leo's doc about the plight of Islanders identified a lot of even quite recent, uh, 'appropriation' or misspending of funds.

While that doesn't mean they shouldn't perhaps be assisted more by nations hosting them, I can understand why it's difficult to identify meaningful ways to help if you can't be sure the resources are going to go where they need to.

I wonder if World Rugby would even permit direct payments from another union to the Tongan players?

[JM2K6]

Apparently Faletau laving Bath for Cardiff next season.

Great. Not sure if having Faletau as first choice at 8 was a reason for Mercer leaving, but leaves a position of recent theoretical strength looking a lot lighter (ignoring the fact he's had a few long term injuries of late and hasn't played this season)

Bath have not had their money's worth from Faletau. Reckon Mercer might come back at some point, or are Bath too much of a basket case?

[sockwithaticket]

It certainly won't be a bad thing for the club to be shot of an expensive marquee player who rarely takes the field.

[ASMO]

Bath should never have let Mercer go, very good player.

[sockwithaticket]

When Montpellier are offering big bucks on the Mediterrannean coast, the national coach seems to have forgotten your number and your club are one of then worst coached in the league I'm not sure it's a case of being let go as making sure you leave.

[inactionman]

Apparently Faletau laving Bath for Cardiff next season.

Great. Not sure if having Faletau as first choice at 8 was a reason for Mercer leaving, but leaves a position of recent theoretical strength looking a lot lighter (ignoring the fact he's had a few long term injuries of late and hasn't played this season)

Serious question: Do Bath Rugby have an academy worthy of the name? Who is/are/were Bath Academy graduates?

Others will know better than me, but I'm pretty sure the following are - Bailey, Ojomoh, de Glanville, Clark, Reid, Hamer-Webb,

Dunn, Ewels are capped, Josh Bayliss was called up to Scotland 6N squad.

Not sure when Tom Elis joined Bath, might have missed academy stages like Obano

There's a few elsewhere still playing - Devoto, Adam Hastings, the Burns brothers,

[Oxbow]

Smith is a doubt for the Tonga game, they've surely got to call up Ford now.

[inactionman]

Apparently Faletau laving Bath for Cardiff next season.

Great. Not sure if having Faletau as first choice at 8 was a reason for Mercer leaving, but leaves a position of recent theoretical strength looking a lot lighter (ignoring the fact he's had a few long term injuries of late and hasn't played this season)

Serious question: Do Bath Rugby have an academy worthy of the name? Who is/are/were Bath Academy graduates?

They've made some note of the fact there's a bunch of untapped talent which is not in the public school system - they've partnered with a state school (Beechen Cliff) under something called ACE and it's the pathway De Glanville came up through. Milers Reid cam through another state school, Ralph Allen.

[inactionman]

Apparently Faletau laving Bath for Cardiff next season.

Great. Not sure if having Faletau as first choice at 8 was a reason for Mercer leaving, but leaves a position of recent theoretical strength looking a lot lighter (ignoring the fact he's had a few long term injuries of late and hasn't played this season)

Bath have not had their money's worth from Faletau. Reckon Mercer might come back at some point, or are Bath too much of a basket case?

There's quite a bit of chat on Bath board about expecting him back, once (i) the Bath management have changed and (ii) Eddie is gone, but think it may be a bit wishful.

[inactionman]

Bath should never have let Mercer go, very good player.

Apparently tried to keep him, but he had more sense.

[mos_eisely_]

Oh FFS. They've literally had Lynagh since yesterday morning

Eddie Jones’ preparations ahead of next Saturday’s England match versus Tonga at Twickenham have been affected by injuries that have made Max Malins, Raffi Quirke and Louis Lynagh all unavailable for selection while minor leg knocks have cast doubt over the availability of Marcus Smith and Freddie Steward.

[Kawazaki]

Apparently Faletau laving Bath for Cardiff next season.

Great. Not sure if having Faletau as first choice at 8 was a reason for Mercer leaving, but leaves a position of recent theoretical strength looking a lot lighter (ignoring the fact he's had a few long term injuries of late and hasn't played this season)

Serious question: Do Bath Rugby have an academy worthy of the name? Who is/are/were Bath Academy graduates?

They've made some note of the fact there's a bunch of untapped talent which is not in the public school system - they've partnered with a state school (Beechen Cliff) under something called ACE and it's the pathway De Glanville came up through. Milers Reid cam through another state school, Ralph Allen.

There also the Bath East Academy in Sunbury of course!

[Kawazaki]

Oh FFS. They've literally had Lynagh since yesterday morning

Eddie Jones’ preparations ahead of next Saturday’s England match versus Tonga at Twickenham have been affected by injuries that have made Max Malins, Raffi Quirke and Louis Lynagh all unavailable for selection while minor leg knocks have cast doubt over the availability of Marcus Smith and Freddie Steward.

Jones is a menace. SaintK might shed more light but I know a former player who is still well connected at Saracens and they have a very dim view of how Jones treats players. It's stoneage stuff.

[inactionman]

Serious question: Do Bath Rugby have an academy worthy of the name? Who is/are/were Bath Academy graduates?

They've made some note of the fact there's a bunch of untapped talent which is not in the public school system - they've partnered with a state school (Beechen Cliff) under something called ACE and it's the pathway De Glanville came up through. Milers Reid cam through another state school, Ralph Allen.

There also the Bath East Academy in Sunbury of course!

That would be a longer list.

[SaintK]

Oh FFS. They've literally had Lynagh since yesterday morning

Eddie Jones’ preparations ahead of next Saturday’s England match versus Tonga at Twickenham have been affected by injuries that have made Max Malins, Raffi Quirke and Louis Lynagh all unavailable for selection while minor leg knocks have cast doubt over the availability of Marcus Smith and Freddie Steward.

Jones is a menace. SaintK might shed more light but I know a former player who is still well connected at Saracens and they have a very dim view of how Jones treats players. It's stoneage stuff.

My mate hasn't been in to England camp since Borthwick left though may well get another opportunity as he worked regularly with Cockerell at Tigers and Edinburgh. Always thought Jones beasted the players unnecessarily mind.
Jones interpretation of what's happened

Eddie Jones’ preparations ahead of next Saturday’s England match versus Tonga at Twickenham have been affected by injuries that have made Max Malins, Raffi Quirke and Louis Lynagh all unavailable for selection while minor leg knocks have cast doubt over the availability of Marcus Smith and Freddie Steward.
The England boss has described himself as being cautiously optimistic that Smith and Steward will both eventually come right and will be part of the plan when the team to face Tonga at the weekend will be announced on Thursday.

“We have got a few injury updates for you,” said Jones at the top of his England media briefing on Tuesday. “We had Max Malins and Raffi Quirke come into camp with injuries so they have been rehabbing, they won’t be considered for selection for the Tongan game but we are hopeful they are going to be fitter further down the track.
“He hasn’t done much this week, just a bit of ball handling. We are being conservative with him but we are cautiously optimistic he will be right to play. The last call we make is 48 hours before the game… We are not desperate, we’re never desperate (to pick a player), but we are keen for him to be involved in the game. It’s not frustrating, it’s part and parcel of preparing a team and players will pick up small knocks. He will recover well and if we don’t get to see him this week we will get to see him next week.”

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/eddie-j ... th-tonga/

[Hal Jordan]

Farrell at 10 it is, then.

[Kawazaki]

Farrell at 10 it is, then.

His best position to be fair but he can't play 10 like Smith.

Mark Atkinson at 12 hopefully (assuming he's still fit?).

[sockwithaticket]

England squad trimmed to 28

FORWARDS
Jamie Blamire
Tom Curry
Trevor Davison
Alex Dombrandt
Charlie Ewels
Ellis Genge
Jamie George
Jonny Hill
Maro Itoje
Courtney Lawes
Joe Marler
Kyle Sinckler
Will Stuart
Sam Underhill

BACKS
Mark Atkinson
Owen Farrell
George Furbank
Max Malins
Joe Marchant
Jonny May
Alex Mitchell
Raffi Quirke
Adam Radwan
Henry Slade
Marcus Smith
Freddie Steward
Manu Tuilagi
Ben Youngs

Returned to clubs
Nic Dolly
Callum Chick
Sam Simmonds
George Martin
Lewis Ludlam
Louis Lynagh
Tommy Freeman

[Choc]

Only 3 back rows in the 28. So, despite the backrow depth we have, we’re still going with Lawes at 6 then, something that’s been found wanting time and time again. And against Tonga. Wonderful.

[JM2K6]

One (1) number 8.

[Margin__Walker]

One (1) number 8.

He'll probably still play Curry there tbf

[Oxbow]

With Lawes likely to play 6 it also means the tremendously underwhelming option of Hill or Ewels partnering Itoje. When is Launchbury expected back?

[sockwithaticket]

With Lawes likely to play 6 it also means the tremendously underwhelming option of Hill or Ewels partnering Itoje. When is Launchbury expected back?

Not in time for these internationals. Probably late November.

[JM2K6]

I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

[Raggs]

I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

He gives away less ludicrous penalties than Hill?

[JM2K6]

I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

He gives away less ludicrous penalties than Hill?

Is there a second row that doesn't?!

[sockwithaticket]

I still do not get Ewels at all. He makes a lot of tackles but none of them stick in the mind and that's about it.

Lineout nause allegedly.