When do World Rugby string up Rassie Erasmus?

[Sards]

There is a point.
I understand what its like to sit on the other end. Decades of management experience.
If a team leader goes rouge and starts butting heads with management there really is no other option but to suspend the vokker. Break down structures and its all gone. You can try be lenient and give a lesser sanction but if the vokker is insistant on taking management head on you cut ties. Unfortunately the whole team suffers as a consequence and probably gets sanctioned too.

In South Africa its a lot more complex even. When an employee feels agrieved he plays the race card......

I'll be honest, I stopped reading after his first sentence. Utter nonsense.

We all have our own opinion.....
I respect your right to an opinion even if its right or wrong.

I stand by my opinion.....this is a clustervok of note. Rassie is definitely in the wrong here.

[Chilli]

But, but...I thought you were my mentor Chilli...

I never knew that the mentorship had started already
I'll be sure to do a better job next time.

[OomStruisbaai]

There is a point.
I understand what its like to sit on the other end. Decades of management experience.
If a team leader goes rouge and starts butting heads with management there really is no other option but to suspend the vokker. Break down structures and its all gone. You can try be lenient and give a lesser sanction but if the vokker is insistant on taking management head on you cut ties. Unfortunately the whole team suffers as a consequence and probably gets sanctioned too.

In South Africa its a lot more complex even. When an employee feels agrieved he plays the race card......

I'll be honest, I stopped reading after his first sentence. Utter nonsense.

We all have our own opinion.....
I respect your right to an opinion even if its right or wrong.

I stand by my opinion.....this is a clustervok of note. Rassie is definitely in the wrong here.

The Stormers players Rassie selected has been poached by the Sharks.

[JM2K6]

Nic Berry coming under sustained attack on the ol' social medias. What a surprise. What a wonderful evolution of our sport.

[Blake]

Nic Berry coming under sustained attack on the ol' social medias. What a surprise. What a wonderful evolution of our sport.

It's very unfortunate and the thing I hate most about my countrymen.
Attacking the officials (and their families) on social media is unacceptable.

I think that would have happened without Rassie's antics, but no doubt his actions made it worse.

I hope more than anything that this is acknowledged by Rassie in his apology.

[Kawazaki]

Nic Berry coming under sustained attack on the ol' social medias. What a surprise. What a wonderful evolution of our sport.

Have you read this garbage from Keohane?

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/


It looks just plain libelous to me.

[sockwithaticket]

I’m finding it difficult to care about this, tbh.

If world rugby were some kind of saints themselves I might give a monkey’s.

Quite surprised by this reaction to be honest, but fair enough

Since the game turned pro there has been a creep towards this kind of incident and I'm not advocating a return to amateurism at the top end in the slightest, but with professionalism comes a lot of money and a lot more pressure. There is so much riding on events such as the Lions tour, okay this time was different but they are huge boosts to the local economy and for the players and staff it's the pinnacle of their careers from a playing perspective but it also adds to their bargaining power on their next contracts, playing for the Boks or ABs or Wallabies against the Lions must be up there as for them it can only happen every 12 years.

We've come a long way from boat trips to exotic places and four months off work to tour the likes of South Africa, everything is much more intense and pressurised, if anything I'm surprised things like this don't happen more often, but it's certainly happening on the pitch with monotonous regularity, you see players in the ref's face all game long, players who aren't necessarily the captain and they get away with it, you seldom see teams marched back ten metres now, but it did happen at the weekend right enough.

World Rugby have proven themselves unworthy trustees of the game imo, have you seen Ocean's Apart? There is a vote very soon to allow players to play for a second international team after three years, but Dan Leo met with such resistance from the governing body that I have little faith that the vote will pass. Not all countries have an equal vote, WR have been very slow to react to the growing concussion problem and player safety in general, there is little to suggest they are anything but be-blazered old farts on a jolly.

All that and more is why I can't get worked up about that video and the circumstances around it.

In fairtness it's reported that lots of tier two nations don't want this rule, it's not just a case of World Rugby trying to stiff the Islanders. Imagine you're Chile or Spain competing for automatic RWC qualification by finishing third in their pool, do you want to Tonga to get the boost of Malakai Feikitoa and Charles Piutau?

[Blake]

Nic Berry coming under sustained attack on the ol' social medias. What a surprise. What a wonderful evolution of our sport.

Have you read this garbage from Keohane?

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/


It looks just plain libelous to me.

Please copy and paste. I refuse to click and give Keo any traffic and/or ad revenue on his site.

By posting the link and clicking on it you are contributing to the problem.

[JM2K6]

Nic Berry coming under sustained attack on the ol' social medias. What a surprise. What a wonderful evolution of our sport.

It's very unfortunate and the thing I hate most about my countrymen.
Attacking the officials (and their families) on social media is unacceptable.

I think that would have happened without Rassie's antics, but no doubt his actions made it worse.

I hope more than anything that this is acknowledged by Rassie in his apology.

To be clear I don't think it's a "saffer" thing at all, but I can't say it would have been the same scale had it happened to other countries. What I am saying is that it was inevitable as soon as Rassie started down this path. His behaviour was worse than the worst of the football managers - I am reminded of the time a ref screwed Chelsea with a baffling display and Mourinho went nuts, but even Mourinho didn't go this far (that ref ended up getting death threats, and social media is only worse these days). At the time I agreed with the assessment that the ref was either bent or incompetent, but now we know what the impact of accusations like that are people should be very fucking careful where they point the firehose of hatred.

Toga: Yes, Keo is a sociopath.

[Paddington Bear]

Behaviour towards refs gets worse and worse every year. Rassie is simply the worst offender rather than a unique case.

[JM2K6]

Nic Berry coming under sustained attack on the ol' social medias. What a surprise. What a wonderful evolution of our sport.

Have you read this garbage from Keohane?

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/


It looks just plain libelous to me.

Please copy and paste. I refuse to click and give Keo any traffic and/or ad revenue on his site.

By posting the link and clicking on it you are contributing to the problem.

https://archive.md/ZJHAa

[Slick]

WR had to do something , and the sanction I think is fair.

Maybe even lenient.

Just wish they would also do some introspection and commit to formalising the referee dispute mechanism more and commit to some better timelines in releasing the referee report of matches.

Haven't they released a document showing that Berry responded to every allegation by the Monday morning? Kind of blows apart the other narrative that no one would speak to Rassie.

Just had a peak at social media.... sorry SA, you are very much on the wrong side of this and need to shut the fuck up.

[Blake]

Have you read this garbage from Keohane?

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/


It looks just plain libelous to me.

Please copy and paste. I refuse to click and give Keo any traffic and/or ad revenue on his site.

By posting the link and clicking on it you are contributing to the problem.

https://archive.md/ZJHAa

Thanks. Couldn't even bring myself to read it. Massive, massive cunt. He loves to race bait as he knows it get him a ton of clicks and press.

He was the one that "broke" the Geo Cronje - Quintin Davids "race scandal" that ruined Cronje's career. Similarly he spearheaded getting Luke Watson shoehorned into Jake White's Bok team because of the Watson-family's anti-apartheid credentials...as if that was relevant.

He's just managed to hack the SA rugby community's rage impulse and knows that race-baiting is very effective.

[Blake]

WR had to do something , and the sanction I think is fair.

Maybe even lenient.

Just wish they would also do some introspection and commit to formalising the referee dispute mechanism more and commit to some better timelines in releasing the referee report of matches.

Haven't they released a document showing that Berry responded to every allegation by the Monday morning? Kind of blows apart the other narrative that no one would speak to Rassie.

Just had a peak at social media.... sorry SA, you are very much on the wrong side of this and need to shut the fuck up.

Not to my knowledge. Happy to be corrected. The threat of a public video was made Tuesday evening and the video was "leaked" on the Wednesday.
Can't see why they would have done that if they already had the report they were requesting.

Either way, you are correct. Sanction is fair, and fans complaining are in the wrong. Just wish WR would also recognise that the current referee review process is problematic and comit to some kind of reform in future.

[Tichtheid]

World Rugby have proven themselves unworthy trustees of the game imo, have you seen Ocean's Apart? There is a vote very soon to allow players to play for a second international team after three years, but Dan Leo met with such resistance from the governing body that I have little faith that the vote will pass. Not all countries have an equal vote,

In fairtness it's reported that lots of tier two nations don't want this rule, it's not just a case of World Rugby trying to stiff the Islanders. Imagine you're Chile or Spain competing for automatic RWC qualification by finishing third in their pool, do you want to Tonga to get the boost of Malakai Feikitoa and Charles Piutau?

I'm not saying it's an easy topic with a definite right and wrong, but in the film Leo says that players make the decision to play for particular teams when they are young and skint - if playing for Tonga or Fiji wasn't a barrier to progress in the domestic game in New Zealand and they were able to earn the same (or even a decent professional salary) representing Tonga/Fiji/Samoa as they do with the All Blacks then there would be more competition at the top end of the international game.

There are Japanese scouts signing up schoolboy Tongans on scholarships as project players. The fact that Edinburgh/Scotland has done it with young Jordan Venter doesn't make me change my mind on this, it's just wrong.
The older guys that come to Scotland are for the most part the ones who would boost a Currie Cup side, but not really trouble international selectors for various reasons, that's why they choose to pursue a career elsewhere.

[SaintK]

Have you read this garbage from Keohane?

https://www.keo.co.za/rassie-latest-wor ... eaking-up/


It looks just plain libelous to me.

Please copy and paste. I refuse to click and give Keo any traffic and/or ad revenue on his site.

By posting the link and clicking on it you are contributing to the problem.

https://archive.md/ZJHAa

Holy fuck!!! Do people actually believe that sort of shit?

[Margin__Walker]

WR had to do something , and the sanction I think is fair.

Maybe even lenient.

Just wish they would also do some introspection and commit to formalising the referee dispute mechanism more and commit to some better timelines in releasing the referee report of matches.

Haven't they released a document showing that Berry responded to every allegation by the Monday morning? Kind of blows apart the other narrative that no one would speak to Rassie.

Just had a peak at social media.... sorry SA, you are very much on the wrong side of this and need to shut the fuck up.

Not to my knowledge. Happy to be corrected. The threat of a public video was made Tuesday evening and the video was "leaked" on the Wednesday.
Can't see why they would have done that if they already had the report they were requesting.

Either way, you are correct. Sanction is fair, and fans complaining are in the wrong. Just wish WR would also recognise that the current referee review process is problematic and comit to some kind of reform in future.

He seems to have sent something through

[Margin__Walker]

WR had to do something , and the sanction I think is fair.

Maybe even lenient.

Just wish they would also do some introspection and commit to formalising the referee dispute mechanism more and commit to some better timelines in releasing the referee report of matches.

Haven't they released a document showing that Berry responded to every allegation by the Monday morning? Kind of blows apart the other narrative that no one would speak to Rassie.

Just had a peak at social media.... sorry SA, you are very much on the wrong side of this and need to shut the fuck up.

Not to my knowledge. Happy to be corrected. The threat of a public video was made Tuesday evening and the video was "leaked" on the Wednesday.
Can't see why they would have done that if they already had the report they were requesting.

Either way, you are correct. Sanction is fair, and fans complaining are in the wrong. Just wish WR would also recognise that the current referee review process is problematic and comit to some kind of reform in future.

He seems to have sent something through

[Kawazaki]

Fucking hell. So let me get this right, Erasmus threatened to release the video unless Berry called him. Instead, Berry went through the video and replied via email point-by-point to each of the objections Erasmus made in the video and sent that email to Erasmus late on the Tuesday evening. Erasmus still released the video anyway on the Wednesday.

What a total cunt. A sociopath.

[handyman]

They talk about coaches taking pressure of their players. Rassie has mastered that and then some, he's in the opposition's heads. The players only have to concentrate on rugby.

[Kawazaki]

They talk about coaches taking pressure of their players. Rassie has mastered that and then some, he's in the opposition's heads. The players only have to concentrate on rugby.

Yeah, he's s fucking genius.

[Slick]

Fucking hell. So let me get this right, Erasmus threatened to release the video unless Berry called him. Instead, Berry went through the video and replied via email point-by-point to each of the objections Erasmus made in the video and sent that email to Erasmus late on the Tuesday evening. Erasmus still released the video anyway on the Wednesday.

What a total cunt. A sociopath.

I think it's actually worse than that from what I've seen. Although I can't confirm, the timeline seems to be:

Sunday - Rassie sends his matrix
Monday morning - Berry replies to all points. Also note he concedes some and disputes others which seems very fair.
Tuesday morning - Berry receives this: "thank you" - nothing else
Tuesday evening - Rassie makes his threat even though he has the feedback
Wednesday - releases video,

[handyman]

They talk about coaches taking pressure of their players. Rassie has mastered that and then some, he's in the opposition's heads. The players only have to concentrate on rugby.

Yeah, he's s fucking genius.

Agreed. We all know that South Africa aren't known for having intelligent players. Turning around our fortunes in 2 years, winning the RWC, winning the Rugby Championship, beating the BIL's, taking us to number 1 in the world, what an amazing achievement.

I can only imagine the lengths that people in the rugby world will go to to harm his legacy and to undermine Rassie.

[JM2K6]

Genuinely can't tell if you're taking the piss or if you're being serious, which is slightly worrying

[OomStruisbaai]

They talk about coaches taking pressure of their players. Rassie has mastered that and then some, he's in the opposition's heads. The players only have to concentrate on rugby.

Yeah, he's s fucking genius.

Agreed. We all know that South Africa aren't known for having intelligent players. Turning around our fortunes in 2 years, winning the RWC, winning the Rugby Championship, beating the BIL's, taking us to number 1 in the world, what an amazing achievement.

I can only imagine the lengths that people in the rugby world will go to to harm his legacy and to undermine Rassie.

No wonder he is the favorite to take over from Eddie as England coach

[Sards]

Fucking hell. So let me get this right, Erasmus threatened to release the video unless Berry called him. Instead, Berry went through the video and replied via email point-by-point to each of the objections Erasmus made in the video and sent that email to Erasmus late on the Tuesday evening. Erasmus still released the video anyway on the Wednesday.

What a total cunt. A sociopath.

I think it's actually worse than that from what I've seen. Although I can't confirm, the timeline seems to be:

Sunday - Rassie sends his matrix
Monday morning - Berry replies to all points. Also note he concedes some and disputes others which seems very fair.
Tuesday morning - Berry receives this: "thank you" - nothing else
Tuesday evening - Rassie makes his threat even though he has the feedback
Wednesday - releases video,

If that's correct......Ai Rassie.
He was obviously not satisfied with the reply so took it to public opinion.

[Sards]

Keo is a turd. He blows in the wind. These racist allegations are horrible.

We had an incident just recently.
On Thursday some stock went missing from my wifes shop. We were investigating but had come to no conclusion as we went away for the weekend on Friday morning so left it for Monday. On Saturday one of the staff members suddenly walked out resigning. We accepted it as it really did all point back to that individual . We paid him out on Tuesday after calculations. On Wednesday night posts started appearing on Facebook and Google accusing my wife of being a racist and that noone should support her shop as she is a racist. We immediately laid a complaint at the police and my wife went to court to get an interdict against the individual as he was going around the mall where my wifes shop is spreading rumors to that effect. You throw racist allegations around it is very bad for you and your business. As soon as the complaint was laid and the court approached the posts disappeared. But the damage was done. What Keo is doing is exactly the same. He must be very careful.

[handyman]

Genuinely can't tell if you're taking the piss or if you're being serious, which is slightly worrying

I'm about as serious as most on this here topic.

[Kawazaki]

Turning around our fortunes in 2 years, winning the RWC, winning the Rugby Championship, beating the BIL's, taking us to number 1 in the world, what an amazing achievement.

Yes, that proves without doubt that there's a World Rugby referee conspiracy to stop you winning.

[Kawazaki]

The disrespect and outright hatred and rage being thrown at Nic Berry. This is appalling.

[Kawazaki]

Look at Erasmus, he's utterly shameless. He's a sociopath.

[PCPhil]

Fucking hell. So let me get this right, Erasmus threatened to release the video unless Berry called him. Instead, Berry went through the video and replied via email point-by-point to each of the objections Erasmus made in the video and sent that email to Erasmus late on the Tuesday evening. Erasmus still released the video anyway on the Wednesday.

What a total cunt. A sociopath.

Again, if that is right he should have got a lot longer and can’t believe anyone on here could be ‘seriously’ defending him. Some areas of Rugby seem to want to get to the sewer with active cheerleaders faster than some of the larger global sports.

[OomStruisbaai]

Anon has gone fully Rassie bevok.

[SaintK]

Yeah, he's s fucking genius.

Agreed. We all know that South Africa aren't known for having intelligent players. Turning around our fortunes in 2 years, winning the RWC, winning the Rugby Championship, beating the BIL's, taking us to number 1 in the world, what an amazing achievement.

I can only imagine the lengths that people in the rugby world will go to to harm his legacy and to undermine Rassie.

No wonder he is the favorite to take over from Eddie as England coach

He won't get a work visa

[Kawazaki]

I hope the Twickenham crowd let the sociopath know what they think of him.

[Blake]

Not to my knowledge. Happy to be corrected. The threat of a public video was made Tuesday evening and the video was "leaked" on the Wednesday.
Can't see why they would have done that if they already had the report they were requesting.

Either way, you are correct. Sanction is fair, and fans complaining are in the wrong. Just wish WR would also recognise that the current referee review process is problematic and comit to some kind of reform in future.

He seems to have sent something through

Thanks for sharing; hadn't seen that before. Put's things in a completely different light for me.

Don't know what foot Rassie was hoping to stand on then. Should have pleaded guilty.

Even worse look than I thought; not that there was a good look; but this makes it worse for me.

[Blake]

Fucking hell. So let me get this right, Erasmus threatened to release the video unless Berry called him. Instead, Berry went through the video and replied via email point-by-point to each of the objections Erasmus made in the video and sent that email to Erasmus late on the Tuesday evening. Erasmus still released the video anyway on the Wednesday.

What a total cunt. A sociopath.

I think it's actually worse than that from what I've seen. Although I can't confirm, the timeline seems to be:

Sunday - Rassie sends his matrix
Monday morning - Berry replies to all points. Also note he concedes some and disputes others which seems very fair.
Tuesday morning - Berry receives this: "thank you" - nothing else
Tuesday evening - Rassie makes his threat even though he has the feedback
Wednesday - releases video,

That image from the evidence shows the SMS was sent 23:22 PM on the Monday evening, not Monday morning.
Not that that excuses anything, but let's just be accurate.

[Blake]

I hope the Twickenham crowd let the sociopath know what they think of him.

He won't be there. Banned from match-day activities with immediate effect.

[Kawazaki]

I hope the Twickenham crowd let the sociopath know what they think of him.

He won't be there. Banned from match-day activities with immediate effect.

Nope, he's appealed hasn't he.

I know he thinks he's being very clever but this will all come back on South Africa with interest. And I know the reaction already- "what did we do?"

[eldanielfire]

Nic Berry coming under sustained attack on the ol' social medias. What a surprise. What a wonderful evolution of our sport.

Wankers in sport have always been a thing. Look at the saffer ref at the end of the 1974 Lions tour. Rage and death threats have always occurred. It's just that social media makes it all be seen by everybody instantly rather than wait fro the press to decide to report it or not later.