Not sure given his position. Scrum half's aren't really valued in England. There was a study done and it was in the bottom 3 or 4 paid positions in England. They don't spend a lot on 9s even now.
That’s interesting. I have very little feel for the politics of the situation, but I cannot see the English clubs taking it well if they become perennial also-rans in European competition. Of course there is no guarantee that will happen, but I think most could see a scenario where there is a firm Irish/French duopoly in the competition if English teams cannot compete.JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:12 amDoubt it. It's just not that big a deal to the vast majority of the clubs, whereas trying not to go broke (ESPECIALLY in a Covid world) is a big deal to the vast majority of clubs. Bruce Craig has enough problems trying to make his team not relegation fodder; Saracens are their own special case of course. Will the cap go up again? Almost definitely, but only when it makes financial sense.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:19 pmIt feels to me like a huge opportunity. The decline in opportunities for our guys in both England and France simultaneously potentially gives the chance for us to concentrate basically a full tier 1 international side across 2 pro teams. It will be a transitory opportunity, because you can bet your house that a couple of years of poor European performances will see the cap increased/removed in England. Can our pro teams use these few years to put in late stage European runs? Would Glasgow/Edinburgh be able to (partially) replicate Irish growth with those kind of performances. It’s all so very intriguing!
It'll go back up in a couple of years. It's substantially about income dropping during the pandemicJM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:12 amDoubt it. It's just not that big a deal to the vast majority of the clubs, whereas trying not to go broke (ESPECIALLY in a Covid world) is a big deal to the vast majority of clubs. Bruce Craig has enough problems trying to make his team not relegation fodder; Saracens are their own special case of course. Will the cap go up again? Almost definitely, but only when it makes financial sense.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:19 pmIt feels to me like a huge opportunity. The decline in opportunities for our guys in both England and France simultaneously potentially gives the chance for us to concentrate basically a full tier 1 international side across 2 pro teams. It will be a transitory opportunity, because you can bet your house that a couple of years of poor European performances will see the cap increased/removed in England. Can our pro teams use these few years to put in late stage European runs? Would Glasgow/Edinburgh be able to (partially) replicate Irish growth with those kind of performances. It’s all so very intriguing!
An opportunity for the pro clubs but one with significant risks for the national twam. Ultimately the more Scotland starters we have playing in England and France the better for our national team as more professionals get to start weekly.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:19 pmIt feels to me like a huge opportunity. The decline in opportunities for our guys in both England and France simultaneously potentially gives the chance for us to concentrate basically a full tier 1 international side across 2 pro teams. It will be a transitory opportunity, because you can bet your house that a couple of years of poor European performances will see the cap increased/removed in England. Can our pro teams use these few years to put in late stage European runs? Would Glasgow/Edinburgh be able to (partially) replicate Irish growth with those kind of performances. It’s all so very intriguing!
I think to add to the bolded bit there is also a big risk of everyone just getting bored of the environment. Playing and training with the same guys at club and international level would, I imagine, get a little tiresome. At meet ups now you get guys coming on from lots of different environments, seeing mates again etc.I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:32 amAn opportunity for the pro clubs but one with significant risks for the national twam. Ultimately the more Scotland starters we have playing in England and France the better for our national team as more professionals get to start weekly.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:19 pmIt feels to me like a huge opportunity. The decline in opportunities for our guys in both England and France simultaneously potentially gives the chance for us to concentrate basically a full tier 1 international side across 2 pro teams. It will be a transitory opportunity, because you can bet your house that a couple of years of poor European performances will see the cap increased/removed in England. Can our pro teams use these few years to put in late stage European runs? Would Glasgow/Edinburgh be able to (partially) replicate Irish growth with those kind of performances. It’s all so very intriguing!
Would it have been good for Glasgow if they kept Russell? Undoubtedly. Would it be good for Scotland? No because then Hastings doesn't move north and become an international calibre fly half.
I do agree with who said it's an opportunity for the super6/8 though. The SRU need to be working out how to increase gametime and pronto.
The super 6/8 is only ever going to be so good because it's semi pro. It shouldn't really ever challenge the pro teams in terms of quality. If so I'd argue something has gone badly wrong with the pro teams.Slick wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:51 amI think to add to the bolded bit there is also a big risk of everyone just getting bored of the environment. Playing and training with the same guys at club and international level would, I imagine, get a little tiresome. At meet ups now you get guys coming on from lots of different environments, seeing mates again etc.I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:32 amAn opportunity for the pro clubs but one with significant risks for the national twam. Ultimately the more Scotland starters we have playing in England and France the better for our national team as more professionals get to start weekly.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:19 pm
It feels to me like a huge opportunity. The decline in opportunities for our guys in both England and France simultaneously potentially gives the chance for us to concentrate basically a full tier 1 international side across 2 pro teams. It will be a transitory opportunity, because you can bet your house that a couple of years of poor European performances will see the cap increased/removed in England. Can our pro teams use these few years to put in late stage European runs? Would Glasgow/Edinburgh be able to (partially) replicate Irish growth with those kind of performances. It’s all so very intriguing!
Would it have been good for Glasgow if they kept Russell? Undoubtedly. Would it be good for Scotland? No because then Hastings doesn't move north and become an international calibre fly half.
I do agree with who said it's an opportunity for the super6/8 though. The SRU need to be working out how to increase gametime and pronto.
With just 2 clubs can we have a similar model to the Irish, ie 2nd teams playing in the URC and the big boys coming out for Europe? Not sure really.
A partial solution would be to have the Super6 at a level much closer to the pro teams but I'm not convinced that will happen, but it is a good opportunity to see i guess.
I think it has been beneficial for many players as individuals to go and ply their trade out of Scotland as well.Slick wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:51 amI think to add to the bolded bit there is also a big risk of everyone just getting bored of the environment. Playing and training with the same guys at club and international level would, I imagine, get a little tiresome. At meet ups now you get guys coming on from lots of different environments, seeing mates again etc.I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:32 amAn opportunity for the pro clubs but one with significant risks for the national twam. Ultimately the more Scotland starters we have playing in England and France the better for our national team as more professionals get to start weekly.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:19 pm
It feels to me like a huge opportunity. The decline in opportunities for our guys in both England and France simultaneously potentially gives the chance for us to concentrate basically a full tier 1 international side across 2 pro teams. It will be a transitory opportunity, because you can bet your house that a couple of years of poor European performances will see the cap increased/removed in England. Can our pro teams use these few years to put in late stage European runs? Would Glasgow/Edinburgh be able to (partially) replicate Irish growth with those kind of performances. It’s all so very intriguing!
Would it have been good for Glasgow if they kept Russell? Undoubtedly. Would it be good for Scotland? No because then Hastings doesn't move north and become an international calibre fly half.
I do agree with who said it's an opportunity for the super6/8 though. The SRU need to be working out how to increase gametime and pronto.
With just 2 clubs can we have a similar model to the Irish, ie 2nd teams playing in the URC and the big boys coming out for Europe? Not sure really.
A partial solution would be to have the Super6 at a level much closer to the pro teams but I'm not convinced that will happen, but it is a good opportunity to see i guess.
Thats surprising, I've always assumed they'd have been one pf the top earners.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:44 amNot sure given his position. Scrum half's aren't really valued in England. There was a study done and it was in the bottom 3 or 4 paid positions in England. They don't spend a lot on 9s even now.
He is worth a lot to Glasgow over and above wages. The other 9s haven't kicked on (Horne) or need a mentor (Dobie).
Can't imagine it has changed much:Jock42 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:57 pmThats surprising, I've always assumed they'd have been one pf the top earners.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:44 amNot sure given his position. Scrum half's aren't really valued in England. There was a study done and it was in the bottom 3 or 4 paid positions in England. They don't spend a lot on 9s even now.
He is worth a lot to Glasgow over and above wages. The other 9s haven't kicked on (Horne) or need a mentor (Dobie).
Was really looking forward to the game on the 2nd :( Not good for the SRU , and Edinburgh in particular, as a bit money spinner , and now they have refunds to process and season ticket holders to placate.
But we've been perennial also-rans for a long time. Exeter and Saracens have been outliers - if you're a fan of Quins, Northampton, Wasps, Bath, Sale, etc the best you can hope for is a quarter-final humping every few years, and nothing outside of that. Maybe one year - like 2016 - English clubs benefit from a drop off in the Irish or French (or both), but generally if you're a fan of an English pro club, Europe is about a once in a blue moon QF appearance. An increase in the cap requires agreement, and most clubs care more about being a going concern in ten years time rather than winning Europe...KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:46 amThat’s interesting. I have very little feel for the politics of the situation, but I cannot see the English clubs taking it well if they become perennial also-rans in European competition. Of course there is no guarantee that will happen, but I think most could see a scenario where there is a firm Irish/French duopoly in the competition if English teams cannot compete.
It probably will go up but the push to bring it down pre-dates Covid. There was a big review into the whole thing when Saracens were exposed as dirty cheats. The idea is to get clubs operating on a more healthy financial basis before it goes up again. Whether that'll happen, I don't know - there's the threat of the hedge fund wankers and of course Sarries and Bath still exist.
I think that graphic just demonstrates I know even less about rugby than I thought.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:41 pmCan't imagine it has changed much:Jock42 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:57 pmThats surprising, I've always assumed they'd have been one pf the top earners.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:44 am
Not sure given his position. Scrum half's aren't really valued in England. There was a study done and it was in the bottom 3 or 4 paid positions in England. They don't spend a lot on 9s even now.
He is worth a lot to Glasgow over and above wages. The other 9s haven't kicked on (Horne) or need a mentor (Dobie).
There is probably an element of relative physical scarcity about it. Not that many super tall athletically gifted blokes to choose from but lots of short arses.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:37 am I would think that graphic, more than anything else, shows how valued and played reserves in each position are. If you are 3rd choice tighthead lock, for instance, you are likely to have a lot more game time than 3rd choice scrum-half…? On that basis you will be paid more and the average will be higher. I still expect Price is amongst the highest earners.
Surely stats are brought down by the fact that a teams like Exeter don't have any 7's?clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:05 am It's funny how the openside flanker in grassroots rugby tends to have an aura as probably the best all-round rugby player on the team, the guy that can do everything. While in the pro game he's barely worth mentioning, judging by that salary stat.
Are esportif not an agency? I figure the work is an educated guess based on their clients?
Just look at the market for Watson before he resigned. Very few teams were linked to him and he is one of the very best.clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:05 am It's funny how the openside flanker in grassroots rugby tends to have an aura as probably the best all-round rugby player on the team, the guy that can do everything. While in the pro game he's barely worth mentioning, judging by that salary stat.
I'm sure they have a lot of All Blacks, Irish players and Piatau IIRC.I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:07 amAre esportif not an agency? I figure the work is an educated guess based on their clients?
During a global pandemic when nobody knew what was going on though with money etc. And he did have offers from France but he decided against moving his family - again during a pandemic when nobody knew what was going on. Last year was quite good for Edinburgh as it must've been easier to keep hold of Mata, Ritchie and Watson as moving families during a pandemic when budgets weren't what they were is favourable for stability.Big D wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:31 amJust look at the market for Watson before he resigned. Very few teams were linked to him and he is one of the very best.clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:05 am It's funny how the openside flanker in grassroots rugby tends to have an aura as probably the best all-round rugby player on the team, the guy that can do everything. While in the pro game he's barely worth mentioning, judging by that salary stat.
It is probably skewed because there not that many top quality 7s around really.
Sounds like it was his own decision which is great. A huge part of Scottish rugby and definitely a Scot!westport wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:29 pm Sean Lineen, the original “kilted Kiwi,” a key player in Scotland’s 1990 Grand Slam and whose love affair with the game has continued as a coach and administrator for more than 30 years, has decided to leave Scottish Rugby.
https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/sean ... tish-rugby
True, but I read it as something new going to be announced. May have read too much into it!
Can have a go at sumo while he’s out there.clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:28 pm Nick Grigg off to Japan at the end of the month.
He probably realised there won't be too many chances for him at Glasgow, let alone with Scotland.
As they say: when you can see the writing on the rice paper wall, get out while you can.
Thats the way I read it. I've asked Santa for a 3rd pro team soSlick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:09 pmTrue, but I read it as something new going to be announced. May have read too much into it!
He has done so much for so many throughout his time. When I was doing the TJ/Assist Ref it was always good when I got matches that involved B/muir, Glasgow or the young Scotland teams as he always took time out to chat about the game/match.family. He will be missed.Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:38 pmSounds like it was his own decision which is great. A huge part of Scottish rugby and definitely a Scot!westport wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:29 pm Sean Lineen, the original “kilted Kiwi,” a key player in Scotland’s 1990 Grand Slam and whose love affair with the game has continued as a coach and administrator for more than 30 years, has decided to leave Scottish Rugby.
https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/sean ... tish-rugby
Interesting quote about “supercharging investment into the pro game”
That’s great to hearwestport wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:31 pmHe has done so much for so many throughout his time. When I was doing the TJ/Assist Ref it was always good when I got matches that involved B/muir, Glasgow or the young Scotland teams as he always took time out to chat about the game/match.family. He will be missed.Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:38 pmSounds like it was his own decision which is great. A huge part of Scottish rugby and definitely a Scot!westport wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:29 pm Sean Lineen, the original “kilted Kiwi,” a key player in Scotland’s 1990 Grand Slam and whose love affair with the game has continued as a coach and administrator for more than 30 years, has decided to leave Scottish Rugby.
https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/sean ... tish-rugby
Interesting quote about “supercharging investment into the pro game”
