The Official English Rugby Thread

[Hal Jordan]

Bath keeping JJ and letting Watson go is the smart move. Watson is perma-crocked, and when not Jones still wants him for England. JJ has a much better injury record and seems to have largely been caught aside at Test level so is far more available.

Watson seems to have entered that injury spiral of "This bit goes, then that bit, then this bit again, then the other, then it's that again..."

[sockwithaticket]

Wiese cops a two week ban having picked up 3 yellow cards.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59823125

Carl Fearns puts out a tweet

[Tichtheid]

Bath keeping JJ and letting Watson go is the smart move. Watson is perma-crocked, and when not Jones still wants him for England. JJ has a much better injury record and seems to have largely been caught aside at Test level so is far more available.

Watson seems to have entered that injury spiral of "This bit goes, then that bit, then this bit again, then the other, then it's that again..."

I remember a BBC host hopefully asking Michael Johnson when he thought Iwan Thomas would get back to world class level, and he showed no mercy. He just said that Thomas wouldn't get back because once you start compensating for an injury your overall balance goes and you start injuring other parts.

Sports medicine and physiotherapy have moved on a lost since then, but I think the basic premise holds true.

[Kawazaki]

Bath keeping JJ and letting Watson go is the smart move. Watson is perma-crocked, and when not Jones still wants him for England. JJ has a much better injury record and seems to have largely been caught aside at Test level so is far more available.

Watson seems to have entered that injury spiral of "This bit goes, then that bit, then this bit again, then the other, then it's that again..."

I remember a BBC host hopefully asking Michael Johnson when he thought Iwan Thomas would get back to world class level, and he showed no mercy. He just said that Thomas wouldn't get back because once you start compensating for an injury your overall balance goes and you start injuring other parts.

Sports medicine and physiotherapy have moved on a lost since then, but I think the basic premise holds true.

Those top track and field athletes are much less durable than rugby players though, even wingers. A decent winger who runs good lines, anticipates line breaks and gets in support, good under the high ball, great tackler etc can still play top level even if they lose a yard or two of pace. A 400m runner who loses a yard of place is finished.

[fishfoodie]

Bath keeping JJ and letting Watson go is the smart move. Watson is perma-crocked, and when not Jones still wants him for England. JJ has a much better injury record and seems to have largely been caught aside at Test level so is far more available.

Watson seems to have entered that injury spiral of "This bit goes, then that bit, then this bit again, then the other, then it's that again..."

I remember a BBC host hopefully asking Michael Johnson when he thought Iwan Thomas would get back to world class level, and he showed no mercy. He just said that Thomas wouldn't get back because once you start compensating for an injury your overall balance goes and you start injuring other parts.

Sports medicine and physiotherapy have moved on a lost since then, but I think the basic premise holds true.

Those top track and field athletes are much less durable than rugby players though, even wingers. A decent winger who runs good lines, anticipates line breaks and gets in support, good under the high ball, great tackler etc can still play top level even if they lose a yard or two of pace. A 400m runner who loses a yard of place is finished.

That's all true; but 400m runners don't have to deal with being tackled by other runners; & they aren't expected to be running for 90 minutes; every weekend, 8 - 9 months a year.

When was the last time you heard of an athlete blowing both their PCL, & ACL ligaments at one time ?

Sprinters are specialists; & rugby players; regardless of position; are now generalists. Before Professionalism; a prop had a very limited role, & now you have them; like Furlong; stepping centers, & having to deal with that strain on their ankles; as well as sharing the load, when an 800-900kg pack lines up against them; & even small player like DuPont, have to be able to compete at rucks; if they arrive first.

Professionalism has meant that backs can no longer focus on their hair; they have to be just as physical, & committed as the forwards; & can expect the same level of injury.

[Kawazaki]

I remember a BBC host hopefully asking Michael Johnson when he thought Iwan Thomas would get back to world class level, and he showed no mercy. He just said that Thomas wouldn't get back because once you start compensating for an injury your overall balance goes and you start injuring other parts.

Sports medicine and physiotherapy have moved on a lost since then, but I think the basic premise holds true.

Those top track and field athletes are much less durable than rugby players though, even wingers. A decent winger who runs good lines, anticipates line breaks and gets in support, good under the high ball, great tackler etc can still play top level even if they lose a yard or two of pace. A 400m runner who loses a yard of place is finished.

That's all true; but 400m runners don't have to deal with being tackled by other runners; & they aren't expected to be running for 90 minutes; every weekend, 8 - 9 months a year.

When was the last time you heard of an athlete blowing both their PCL, & ACL ligaments at one time ?

Sprinters are specialists; & rugby players; regardless of position; are now generalists. Before Professionalism; a prop had a very limited role, & now you have them; like Furlong; stepping centers, & having to deal with that strain on their ankles; as well as sharing the load, when an 800-900kg pack lines up against them; & even small player like DuPont, have to be able to compete at rucks; if they arrive first.

Professionalism has meant that backs can no longer focus on their hair; they have to be just as physical, & committed as the forwards; & can expect the same level of injury.

Yes I know. That's what durable means!

[fishfoodie]

Those top track and field athletes are much less durable than rugby players though, even wingers. A decent winger who runs good lines, anticipates line breaks and gets in support, good under the high ball, great tackler etc can still play top level even if they lose a yard or two of pace. A 400m runner who loses a yard of place is finished.

That's all true; but 400m runners don't have to deal with being tackled by other runners; & they aren't expected to be running for 90 minutes; every weekend, 8 - 9 months a year.

When was the last time you heard of an athlete blowing both their PCL, & ACL ligaments at one time ?

Sprinters are specialists; & rugby players; regardless of position; are now generalists. Before Professionalism; a prop had a very limited role, & now you have them; like Furlong; stepping centers, & having to deal with that strain on their ankles; as well as sharing the load, when an 800-900kg pack lines up against them; & even small player like DuPont, have to be able to compete at rucks; if they arrive first.

Professionalism has meant that backs can no longer focus on their hair; they have to be just as physical, & committed as the forwards; & can expect the same level of injury.

Yes I know. That's what durable means!

No.

Durable means that a Rugby back is able to do more competitive minutes in a month; than a top level athlete does in an entire season; & not end up under a surgeon.

That still doesn't get them to a position where they can be' "durable"; for the other 7-8 months of the season !

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Bath keeping JJ and letting Watson go is the smart move. Watson is perma-crocked, and when not Jones still wants him for England. JJ has a much better injury record and seems to have largely been caught aside at Test level so is far more available.

Watson seems to have entered that injury spiral of "This bit goes, then that bit, then this bit again, then the other, then it's that again..."

I remember a BBC host hopefully asking Michael Johnson when he thought Iwan Thomas would get back to world class level, and he showed no mercy. He just said that Thomas wouldn't get back because once you start compensating for an injury your overall balance goes and you start injuring other parts.

Sports medicine and physiotherapy have moved on a lost since then, but I think the basic premise holds true.

Those top track and field athletes are much less durable than rugby players though, even wingers. A decent winger who runs good lines, anticipates line breaks and gets in support, good under the high ball, great tackler etc can still play top level even if they lose a yard or two of pace. A 400m runner who loses a yard of place is finished.

Does that mean rugby players are more durable? or does that mean if you put a track and field athlete into a game of rugby they'd be more likely to end up injured than someone who trained for the sport, which really isn't different to saying if you put the load through a hamstring, a shoulder, an ankle that a track and field athlete might take over competing in the 200m, javelin, or triple jump into a rugby player the rugby player would be much more likely to end up injured?

The difference in strain on say the achilles in taking a second off a hundred metres time would screw over just about any decent sprinter in rugby terms.

If you had time you could sort the physical conditioning to switch to rugby, whether you'd ever sort the decision making without a background in rugby is much more questionable

[Kawazaki]

I remember a BBC host hopefully asking Michael Johnson when he thought Iwan Thomas would get back to world class level, and he showed no mercy. He just said that Thomas wouldn't get back because once you start compensating for an injury your overall balance goes and you start injuring other parts.

Sports medicine and physiotherapy have moved on a lost since then, but I think the basic premise holds true.

Those top track and field athletes are much less durable than rugby players though, even wingers. A decent winger who runs good lines, anticipates line breaks and gets in support, good under the high ball, great tackler etc can still play top level even if they lose a yard or two of pace. A 400m runner who loses a yard of place is finished.

Does that mean rugby players are more durable? or does that mean if you put a track and field athlete into a game of rugby they'd be more likely to end up injured than someone who trained for the sport, which really isn't different to saying if you put the load through a hamstring, a shoulder, an ankle that a track and field athlete might take over competing in the 200m, javelin, or triple jump into a rugby player the rugby player would be much more likely to end up injured?

The difference in strain on say the achilles in taking a second off a hundred metres time would screw over just about any decent sprinter in rugby terms.

If you had time you could sort the physical conditioning to switch to rugby, whether you'd ever sort the decision making without a background in rugby is much more questionable

We're all in agreement here.

[sockwithaticket]

Wasps and Sale teams for tomorrow.


Current unavailable list:
Malakai Fekitoa, James Gaskell, Ben Harris, Joe Launchbury, Rodrigo Martinez, Elliot Millar-Mills, Ryan Mills, Matteo Minozzi, Ben Morris, Paolo Odogwu, Gabriel Oghre, Dan Robson, Will Simonds, Jacob Umaga, Theo Vukasinovic, Marcus Watson and Jack Willis.

It is getting a bit shorter, though a real bugger to see Martinez on there already after making his first appearance last week. Nice to see Miller and Atkinson returning to a matchday squad

[sockwithaticket]

Wasps getting thoroughly outmuscled up at the AJ Bell.

[Ovals]

Wasps getting thoroughly outmuscled up at the AJ Bell.

Yep - not looking very promising - still in touch though, but against the wind in the 2nd half. They seem to be struggling with the pace of the game.

[Raggs]

Our backs are just a mess unfortunately, complete disruption, and very few senior members in the pack left, despite the young/new players being good, it doesn't help.

[Raggs]

I'm really not sure how that Curry try stands... How is that not a crawl forward from when his knee first hits the floor?

EDIT - Not sure how the offside was missed earlier either, with the retreating player never getting onside.

EDIT - They point it out on the TV, only ignore the fact he's clearly offside when he makes that "intervention".

[sockwithaticket]

I'm really not sure how that Curry try stands... How is that not a crawl forward from when his knee first hits the floor?

EDIT - Not sure how the offside was missed earlier either, with the retreating player never getting onside.

EDIT - They point it out on the TV, only ignore the fact he's clearly offside when he makes that "intervention".

Nothing about that try was right. Mystifying decision.

[Bullet]

Where do Wasp fans see Barbeary's ceiling at 8?
BT certainly talk up his tight carrying and workrate so wonder if Eddie will ignore the form 8s and see him as replacement for Billy?

[sockwithaticket]

We really have been architects of our own downfall with the number of handling errors today.

Where do Wasp fans see Barbeary's ceiling at 8?
BT certainly talk up his tight carrying and workrate so wonder if Eddie will ignore the form 8s and see him as replacement for Billy?

With the caveat that he really doesn't have that many minutes at Prem level yet with many of his limited appearances having been off the bench, he looks like he could already do a job internationally. His carrying is that good.

There's definitely some improvement that can be made in overall fitness and work rate.

Eddie would be better served going with Dombrandt at the moment while Barbeary hones himself.

[Prembore]

Wasps are desperately predictable in attack.

[Prembore]

Oh, and Willis is comfortably their best no 8, if you ask me.

Sale did what they had to do which is front up in defence. One thing that did impress me is their ball presentation at the breakdown. They were caught out a couple of times but on the whole the ball was placed long and out of reach of Wasps' jacklers.

[Raggs]

Wasps are desperately predictable in attack.

Our backline is patched together at the moment, you can't do anything more than the basics, otherwise you drop the ball (like we did).

[Prembore]

Beaten by the ruck, says Luke Pearce, said ruck consisting of three blokes lying on the ground and one other bloke doing a downward dog over the top.

[Kawazaki]

Pearce is having one of those games. Again.

Exeter getting all the 50/50s. And most of the 40/60s.

[ASMO]

How is Pearce a proffesional referee? He is terrible in every game he ref's.. he got so much wrong in this game its not even funny.

[sockwithaticket]

How is Pearce a proffesional referee? He is terrible in every game he ref's.. he got so much wrong in this game its not even funny.

That's hyperbolic in the extreme. He seems to be a bit off the boil in recent weeks, but he's far and away one the Prem's best in general.

[Kawazaki]

How is Pearce a proffesional referee? He is terrible in every game he ref's.. he got so much wrong in this game its not even funny.

That's hyperbolic in the extreme. He seems to be a bit off the boil in recent weeks, but he's far and away one the Prem's best in general.

Don't confuse confident and decisively wrong with high standard.

[Margin__Walker]

LI v Bath off tomorrow. Apparently further Covid issues for Bath after they cancelled their midweek Prem Cup game.

Real shame as it was set to be LI's biggest attendance at Brentford and a good shot at a (legitimate) big win against a team that we love to beat (but very rarely do)

[Raggs]

LI v Bath off tomorrow. Apparently further Covid issues for Bath after they cancelled their midweek Prem Cup game.

Real shame as it was set to be LI's biggest attendance at Brentford and a good shot at a (legitimate) big win against a team that we love to beat (but very rarely do)

Load of guys from my club were planning on going, over 20. Was tempted to hop onto a spare ticket myself. Kinda glad I didn't now.

[Margin__Walker]

LI v Bath off tomorrow. Apparently further Covid issues for Bath after they cancelled their midweek Prem Cup game.

Real shame as it was set to be LI's biggest attendance at Brentford and a good shot at a (legitimate) big win against a team that we love to beat (but very rarely do)

Load of guys from my club were planning on going, over 20. Was tempted to hop onto a spare ticket myself. Kinda glad I didn't now.

I was meant to be there too as I was heading to London this weekend, but we all came down with Covid so had to cancel. Will have lost the club plenty of money.

[JM2K6]

How is Pearce a proffesional referee? He is terrible in every game he ref's.. he got so much wrong in this game its not even funny.

That's hyperbolic in the extreme. He seems to be a bit off the boil in recent weeks, but he's far and away one the Prem's best in general.

No kidding. I thought Pearce had a pretty poor game, particularly by his standards, but "how is he a professional" is something I'd expect to have read on the TalkSport forums or something.

[SaintK]

Pearce is having one of those games. Again.

Exeter getting all the 50/50s. And most of the 40/60s.

I thought that and Dallaglio mentioned it several times in commentary
Not one of Pearce's better matches

[Oxbow]

Piers Francis returns and is off within 8 minutes for Saints, think it was his leg rather than yet another head injury, but at some point he's going to have to accept that rugby is just not the game for him any more.

[sockwithaticket]

Piers Francis returns and is off within 8 minutes for Saints, think it was his leg rather than yet another head injury, but at some point he's going to have to accept that rugby is just not the game for him any more.

I suppose being paid to constantly rehab might be preferable to getting a 'real' job. He really is made of glass.

[sockwithaticket]

Northmore always seems class when I catch Quins, should he be in line for England? He's better than Slade.

[Ovals]

Northmore always seems class when I catch Quins, should he be in line for England? He's better than Slade.

That's a rather big call

[sockwithaticket]

Northmore always seems class when I catch Quins, should he be in line for England? He's better than Slade.

That's a rather big call

Is it? Tbh I really don't rate Slade, I'd pick a lot of players ahead of him. He's flaky and inconsistent in a way that really should attract the same level of scrutiny Twelvetrees ended up being drowned in. The difference being he's playing in an overally better side, so perhaps his errors aren't quite so significant.

[Ovals]

Jones has to give Dombrandt an extended run in the England side - he's been immense yet again. Terrific player.

[geordie_6]

Tizard looks a decent prospect at lock, an area where we suddenly lack long-term depth.

[sockwithaticket]

Played Quins. Scrapped out the win against a game Glaws side.

How South Africa don't think they need Esterhuizen is beyond me. He's a much more rounded player than de Allende.

[Niegs]

Please tell me this clear FK offence isn't becoming commonplace!

[ASMO]

Northmore always seems class when I catch Quins, should he be in line for England? He's better than Slade.

That's a rather big call

Is it? Tbh I really don't rate Slade, I'd pick a lot of players ahead of him. He's flaky and inconsistent in a way that really should attract the same level of scrutiny Twelvetrees ended up being drowned in. The difference being he's playing in an overally better side, so perhaps his errors aren't quite so significant.

Slade is ok when the team are on the front foot and he has time to pick and choose his lines/passing...defensively he is weak, he misses a lot of 1 on 1 tackles