Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Yes, the "levelling up" stuff that came out this morning is hilariously shite

If anything that's a generous assessment. Did they consider nobody would look at the numbers?

[The sun god]

How long do British MP's need to have their seat before pension entitlements kick in and how generous are they ?

It's based on years of service. Around 2-2.5% of a year's salary, varies depending on contributions. What happens if they serve less than 12 months I don't know

They also get a 70k lump sum cushion payment if they lose their seat

OK....just trying to figure out if there is a correlation between newcomer loyalty i.e the first-timers elected in 2019 , who appear to be more pro Johnson and the financial rewards gained by MP's who last a full term.

[Slick]

It's based on years of service. Around 2-2.5% of a year's salary, varies depending on contributions. What happens if they serve less than 12 months I don't know

They also get a 70k lump sum cushion payment if they lose their seat

OK....just trying to figure out if there is a correlation between newcomer loyalty i.e the first-timers elected in 2019 , who appear to be more pro Johnson and the financial rewards gained by MP's who last a full term.

I'm not convinced it's the money for many of them, and they will probably get a high paid job when they leave. But it's a bloody great job! hard work but I'd love to be part of all that history and tradition. And helping people and stuff.

Certainly better than most office jobs I'd say

[SaintK]

Yes, the "levelling up" stuff that came out this morning is hilariously shite

If anything that's a generous assessment. Did they consider nobody would look at the numbers?

From the Labour chair of the Commons Business Committee

[Slick]

I suspect that for quite a few people in Scotland the "levelling up" promise was holding them on to Westminster by a thread. That's gone now.

[dpedin]

What are the chances that he was diagosed as such, at an early age; "I want to be World King !"; & that's why no-one in his family supported his run for Leadership ?

I suspect there will have been some questions asked about his behaviour, when he was young however I am not convinced that Eton will have a strong mental health service - it might have been very busy otherwise! Also narcissistic sociopaths can exhibit many traits that can be confused with high functioning individuals, indeed many might have a higher than average IQ which can confuse folk and hide their other failings.

I worked in an organisation with a CEO who exhibited what some of my professional colleagues who were expert in this sort of area were sure that he fitted the narcissistic sociopath profile. The CEO was very bright and able but also a complete and utter bastard who destroyed many careers of those around him in order to further and protect his own career. He was eventually 'deposed' by a higher authority but only after a very damaging time to the organisation. I see nothing different in the behaviours between my ex CEO and the Blonde Bumblecunt.

[petej]

Yes, the "levelling up" stuff that came out this morning is hilariously shite

If anything that's a generous assessment. Did they consider nobody would look at the numbers?

Don't think the population in general look at the numbers. Johnson just has to sell it. Johnson is good at that.

[Tichtheid]

Yes, the "levelling up" stuff that came out this morning is hilariously shite

If anything that's a generous assessment. Did they consider nobody would look at the numbers?

Don't think the population in general look at the numbers. Johnson just has to sell it. Johnson is good at that.

I think his ability to sell it will rest with the media's appetite for bullshit, they will know that it is nothing new and complete rubbish, but will they actually say so and hold the government to account?

[PCPhil]

Christ the Speaker is such a limp rag.
“No more shouting all you can leave, I’m warning you I’m getting very cross. If you do that again I will be even angrier”….repeat….repeat each week.

[Biffer]

https://www.bennettinstitute.cam.ac.uk/ ... nd-places/

Successive Governments have failed to fully recognise the scale and importance of geographical economic inequalities. This has been reflected in the limited scale of financial resources devoted to solving the problem. We estimate that from 1961 to 2020, there was an annual spend of £3.5 billion, equivalent to 0.15 percent of 2020 Gross National Income (GNI). Regional aid from the European Union added around another £1.4 billion (2020 prices) per annum. In combination, then, spending on urban and regional policy has amounted to about £4.9 billion per annum (0.27 percent of 2020 GNI). This is the size of the new Levelling Up Fund (which is not all new monies). It compares to £14.5 billion spent on international aid in 2019. Even more striking, it compares with a massive €2 trillion of aid and assistance (approximately equal to £55billion per annum) Germany has spent since 1990 on its Aufbau Ost programme to level up the East Germany economy with that of West Germany, post-unification.

East Germany now has a better GDP per head than Yorkshire, The North West, Wales, Northern Ireland, the North East. It was a communist economy 30 years ago, driving trabants with an industrial system from the 50s.

This is the level of spending required to level up. The pissy numbers that the government are talking about will have no effect at a macroeconomic level.

[Paddington Bear]

Because we've given up on economic growth as a policy objective and cancel or scrimp on every possible infrastructure project proposed outside of London. It's scandalous.

[Happyhooker]

Because we've given up on economic growth as a policy objective and cancel or scrimp on every possible infrastructure project proposed outside of London. It's scandalous.

All this bluster of "we'll make sure everywhere has comparable public transport systems to London " misses one very vital point.

Tfl is currently being massively underfunded, deliberately, and is very close to collapsing. Its called managed decline. The board have described this as 'inevitable'

[Torquemada 1420]

How long do British MP's need to have their seat before pension entitlements kick in and how generous are they ?

It's based on years of service. Around 2-2.5% of a year's salary, varies depending on contributions. What happens if they serve less than 12 months I don't know

Don't quote me on this because it probably changed for newer members but the lazy, self serving ***ts used to be on a 1/30th basis.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

They also get a 70k lump sum cushion payment if they lose their seat

OK....just trying to figure out if there is a correlation between newcomer loyalty i.e the first-timers elected in 2019 , who appear to be more pro Johnson and the financial rewards gained by MP's who last a full term.

I'm not convinced it's the money for many of them, and they will probably get a high paid job when they leave. But it's a bloody great job! hard work but I'd love to be part of all that history and tradition. And helping people and stuff.

Certainly better than most office jobs I'd say

Much easier to look at promise to misuse public funds in their last election campaign, the threats to misuse public funds by withdrawing constituency support for MPs turning against le Roi Soleil, and those same MPs (and many of them the more recently arrived) now enjoying unprecedented access to a PM gaining promises to again misuse public funds to bolster local elections in favour of the Tories. I'd ask where the police were in this, but what's the point, Cressida has her hands over her eyes claiming she can see nothing untoward, and there's nowhere to turn but wait for an election and pray the FPP system doesn't leave us up shit creek

I could note whilst many Tory MPs have been promised funding for their areas Boris hasn't actually had to deliver on those yet, and there is some chance he's got not the slightest intention of keeping his word. But it's a massive distraction from running the country at best, and it's probably not the best, it likely is just corruption

[Torquemada 1420]

https://www.bennettinstitute.cam.ac.uk/ ... nd-places/

Successive Governments have failed to fully recognise the scale and importance of geographical economic inequalities. This has been reflected in the limited scale of financial resources devoted to solving the problem. We estimate that from 1961 to 2020, there was an annual spend of £3.5 billion, equivalent to 0.15 percent of 2020 Gross National Income (GNI). Regional aid from the European Union added around another £1.4 billion (2020 prices) per annum. In combination, then, spending on urban and regional policy has amounted to about £4.9 billion per annum (0.27 percent of 2020 GNI). This is the size of the new Levelling Up Fund (which is not all new monies). It compares to £14.5 billion spent on international aid in 2019. Even more striking, it compares with a massive €2 trillion of aid and assistance (approximately equal to £55billion per annum) Germany has spent since 1990 on its Aufbau Ost programme to level up the East Germany economy with that of West Germany, post-unification.

East Germany now has a better GDP per head than Yorkshire, The North West, Wales, Northern Ireland, the North East. It was a communist economy 30 years ago, driving trabants with an industrial system from the 50s.

This is the level of spending required to level up. The pissy numbers that the government are talking about will have no effect at a macroeconomic level.

Yup. But I'm struggling to have sympathy. At the last election, a tide of Northern voters helped put Boris in power based, presumably, on a load of vague promises of regenerating the North and bridging the wealth disparity. I said at the time that if any of the silly f***ers believed that, they'd be in for a big shock very rapidly. Cue "Thanks for your votes areseholes. Now f**k off back to your dole queues. Lots of love, the Tory Party".

[robmatic]

How long do British MP's need to have their seat before pension entitlements kick in and how generous are they ?

It's based on years of service. Around 2-2.5% of a year's salary, varies depending on contributions. What happens if they serve less than 12 months I don't know

Don't quote me on this because it probably changed for newer members but the lazy, self serving ***ts used to be on a 1/30th basis.

The old pensions terms were amazing, better than almost any executive pension scheme I worked on, but funnily enough they never mentioned that when complaining about their salaries.

[Torquemada 1420]

It's based on years of service. Around 2-2.5% of a year's salary, varies depending on contributions. What happens if they serve less than 12 months I don't know

They also get a 70k lump sum cushion payment if they lose their seat

OK....just trying to figure out if there is a correlation between newcomer loyalty i.e the first-timers elected in 2019 , who appear to be more pro Johnson and the financial rewards gained by MP's who last a full term.

No. The scheme changed some years ago (2015?) and it may even be a money purchase basis now. If not, it's a 1/60th.

[JM2K6]

Because we've given up on economic growth as a policy objective and cancel or scrimp on every possible infrastructure project proposed outside of London. It's scandalous.

True, and one of the "Brexit benefits" that I understood and thought was one of the few possible boons for this country was the idea that the wealth needed to be spread throughout the country, that proper spending would be required to counter the effects of Brexit and that non-London regions should have serious targeted investment.

But here we are, with the peak Brexit Government, filled with the most hardline Brexiteers, and they are fucking hopeless at this. Utterly incapable of serious policy. And, what's worse, it's pretty obvious they don't really give a shit. It was all hot air - a vote winner (both Brexit and election) with no substance behind it and never any ambition to create any.

I have a good friend who unwillingly voted to Remain but was very angry about the lack of funding for places like Yorkshire, where he lives. We didn't agree with much regarding Brexit, but the economic argument as a motivator for people to fuck the status quo made more sense than anything else.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It's based on years of service. Around 2-2.5% of a year's salary, varies depending on contributions. What happens if they serve less than 12 months I don't know

Don't quote me on this because it probably changed for newer members but the lazy, self serving ***ts used to be on a 1/30th basis.

The old pensions terms were amazing, better than almost any executive pension scheme I worked on, but funnily enough they never mentioned that when complaining about their salaries.

Their salaries were too low, still are really even allowing for their pensions

[Torquemada 1420]

It's based on years of service. Around 2-2.5% of a year's salary, varies depending on contributions. What happens if they serve less than 12 months I don't know

Don't quote me on this because it probably changed for newer members but the lazy, self serving ***ts used to be on a 1/30th basis.

The old pensions terms were amazing, better than almost any executive pension scheme I worked on, but funnily enough they never mentioned that when complaining about their salaries.

There is a reason why when the first personal pensions came in (until then, the only money purchase schemes were ERPs which were still based on occupational rules and only available to director/business owners), the contribution limits were set at the very strange17.5% NRE (Net Relevant Earnings). It's because when MPs and Civil Servants sat down and did the maths, they were not going to allow Joe Public to be able to accrue a pension entitlement greater than the one they had. It was simple, green eyed monster stuff.

[Torquemada 1420]

Don't quote me on this because it probably changed for newer members but the lazy, self serving ***ts used to be on a 1/30th basis.

The old pensions terms were amazing, better than almost any executive pension scheme I worked on, but funnily enough they never mentioned that when complaining about their salaries.

Their salaries were too low, still are really even allowing for their pensions

Assume you are being sarcastic?

[yermum]

They should double the salary and have a blanket ban on second jobs consultancy etc. Plus a 5 year ban on consultancy for any organisation competing for government contracts.

[robmatic]

Don't quote me on this because it probably changed for newer members but the lazy, self serving ***ts used to be on a 1/30th basis.

The old pensions terms were amazing, better than almost any executive pension scheme I worked on, but funnily enough they never mentioned that when complaining about their salaries.

Their salaries were too low, still are really even allowing for their pensions

I dunno, it's not a bad gig for the 500 of them that aren't ministers. There's a fair number of them don't even have to do much at constituency level as they get voted in based on the colour of their rosette.

[Torquemada 1420]

They should double the salary and have a blanket ban on second jobs consultancy etc. Plus a 5 year ban on consultancy for any organisation competing for government contracts.

Bollox. Should be all of the above but with the current pay structure. The bottom MP pay (excluding pensions and expense fiddling) is £80k pa. For what is, in effect in most cases, a friggin' part time job that requires no qualifications or skills whatsoever.

[Paddington Bear]

Because we've given up on economic growth as a policy objective and cancel or scrimp on every possible infrastructure project proposed outside of London. It's scandalous.

True, and one of the "Brexit benefits" that I understood and thought was one of the few possible boons for this country was the idea that the wealth needed to be spread throughout the country, that proper spending would be required to counter the effects of Brexit and that non-London regions should have serious targeted investment.

But here we are, with the peak Brexit Government, filled with the most hardline Brexiteers, and they are fucking hopeless at this. Utterly incapable of serious policy. And, what's worse, it's pretty obvious they don't really give a shit. It was all hot air - a vote winner (both Brexit and election) with no substance behind it and never any ambition to create any.

I have a good friend who unwillingly voted to Remain but was very angry about the lack of funding for places like Yorkshire, where he lives. We didn't agree with much regarding Brexit, but the economic argument as a motivator for people to fuck the status quo made more sense than anything else.

Maybe naive but I genuinely thought they'd invest properly in the north, if nothing else because it's now in their electoral interests.

[yermum]

They should double the salary and have a blanket ban on second jobs consultancy etc. Plus a 5 year ban on consultancy for any organisation competing for government contracts.

Bollox. Should be all of the above but with the current pay structure. The bottom MP pay (excluding pensions and expense fiddling) is £80k pa. For what is, in effect in most cases, a friggin' part time job that requires no qualifications or skills whatsoever.

yeah but it shouldn't be a part time job.

[GogLais]

https://www.bennettinstitute.cam.ac.uk/ ... nd-places/

Successive Governments have failed to fully recognise the scale and importance of geographical economic inequalities. This has been reflected in the limited scale of financial resources devoted to solving the problem. We estimate that from 1961 to 2020, there was an annual spend of £3.5 billion, equivalent to 0.15 percent of 2020 Gross National Income (GNI). Regional aid from the European Union added around another £1.4 billion (2020 prices) per annum. In combination, then, spending on urban and regional policy has amounted to about £4.9 billion per annum (0.27 percent of 2020 GNI). This is the size of the new Levelling Up Fund (which is not all new monies). It compares to £14.5 billion spent on international aid in 2019. Even more striking, it compares with a massive €2 trillion of aid and assistance (approximately equal to £55billion per annum) Germany has spent since 1990 on its Aufbau Ost programme to level up the East Germany economy with that of West Germany, post-unification.

East Germany now has a better GDP per head than Yorkshire, The North West, Wales, Northern Ireland, the North East. It was a communist economy 30 years ago, driving trabants with an industrial system from the 50s.

This is the level of spending required to level up. The pissy numbers that the government are talking about will have no effect at a macroeconomic level.

Yup. But I'm struggling to have sympathy. At the last election, a tide of Northern voters helped put Boris in power based, presumably, on a load of vague promises of regenerating the North and bridging the wealth disparity. I said at the time that if any of the silly f***ers believed that, they'd be in for a big shock very rapidly. Cue "Thanks for your votes areseholes. Now f**k off back to your dole queues. Lots of love, the Tory Party".

I imagine they'd say that voting Labour for generations had done nothing for them so why not give BoJo a go?

And in other news - report on the news reckons that the Gov't is going to loan billions to the gas suppliers and we'll all have £200 off our bills. How the ffyk can they justify that?

[PCPhil]

They should double the salary and have a blanket ban on second jobs consultancy etc. Plus a 5 year ban on consultancy for any organisation competing for government contracts.

Bollox. Should be all of the above but with the current pay structure. The bottom MP pay (excluding pensions and expense fiddling) is £80k pa. For what is, in effect in most cases, a friggin' part time job that requires no qualifications or skills whatsoever.

Can’t agree. Then much like professionalism in other jobs (think sports in an earlier age for instance) you will only get rich people who don’t really need to do this for themselves of their families.
Pay top wacks and blanket ban other stuff.

[Biffer]

Because we've given up on economic growth as a policy objective and cancel or scrimp on every possible infrastructure project proposed outside of London. It's scandalous.

True, and one of the "Brexit benefits" that I understood and thought was one of the few possible boons for this country was the idea that the wealth needed to be spread throughout the country, that proper spending would be required to counter the effects of Brexit and that non-London regions should have serious targeted investment.

But here we are, with the peak Brexit Government, filled with the most hardline Brexiteers, and they are fucking hopeless at this. Utterly incapable of serious policy. And, what's worse, it's pretty obvious they don't really give a shit. It was all hot air - a vote winner (both Brexit and election) with no substance behind it and never any ambition to create any.

I have a good friend who unwillingly voted to Remain but was very angry about the lack of funding for places like Yorkshire, where he lives. We didn't agree with much regarding Brexit, but the economic argument as a motivator for people to fuck the status quo made more sense than anything else.

Maybe naive but I genuinely thought they'd invest properly in the north, if nothing else because it's now in their electoral interests.

Yep, naive. 'Properly' would be several tens of billions a year for 20 years. Pushing up to a trillion total. Never going to happen.

[Torquemada 1420]

Maybe naive but I genuinely thought they'd invest properly in the north, if nothing else because it's now in their electoral interests.

Yes. Incredibly naive. UK politics is all short termism and driven by the (maximum) period of office. Therefore, when you have politicians whose mindsets are entirely self serving, they will do anything to gain the keys to the castle before pillaging all they can before they are turfed out. Anyway, there was no way they were going to be able to do anything in 5 years but put the odd plaster over decades of neglect foisted upon the North and so even if they had genuine intent, they would have figured next time around the North would revert to voting type based on the lack of meaningful action.

[Slick]

They should double the salary and have a blanket ban on second jobs consultancy etc. Plus a 5 year ban on consultancy for any organisation competing for government contracts.

Bollox. Should be all of the above but with the current pay structure. The bottom MP pay (excluding pensions and expense fiddling) is £80k pa. For what is, in effect in most cases, a friggin' part time job that requires no qualifications or skills whatsoever.

yeah but it shouldn't be a part time job.

It’s not for the vast majority, that’s just bullshit

[Torquemada 1420]

They should double the salary and have a blanket ban on second jobs consultancy etc. Plus a 5 year ban on consultancy for any organisation competing for government contracts.

Bollox. Should be all of the above but with the current pay structure. The bottom MP pay (excluding pensions and expense fiddling) is £80k pa. For what is, in effect in most cases, a friggin' part time job that requires no qualifications or skills whatsoever.

Can’t agree. Then much like professionalism in other jobs (think sports in an earlier age for instance) you will only get rich people who don’t really need to do this for themselves of their families.
Pay top wacks and blanket ban other stuff.

We aren't going to agree on this. The average UK salary is £30k and that's massively skewed by the rich anyway. What part of £80k > £30k would deter the "not rich" from the job?

BTW, if you think about it, your sporting example is a very bad one!

[GogLais]

They should double the salary and have a blanket ban on second jobs consultancy etc. Plus a 5 year ban on consultancy for any organisation competing for government contracts.

Bollox. Should be all of the above but with the current pay structure. The bottom MP pay (excluding pensions and expense fiddling) is £80k pa. For what is, in effect in most cases, a friggin' part time job that requires no qualifications or skills whatsoever.

Can’t agree. Then much like professionalism in other jobs (think sports in an earlier age for instance) you will only get rich people who don’t really need to do this for themselves of their families.
Pay top wacks and blanket ban other stuff.

The average MP represents 100k people so my MP costs me about 80p per annum. Sounds a bargain.

[Hal Jordan]

Because we've given up on economic growth as a policy objective and cancel or scrimp on every possible infrastructure project proposed outside of London. It's scandalous.

All this bluster of "we'll make sure everywhere has comparable public transport systems to London " misses one very vital point.

Tfl is currently being massively underfunded, deliberately, and is very close to collapsing. Its called managed decline. The board have described this as 'inevitable'

To be privatised to "save it", it's the basic playbook.

[The sun god]

They also get a 70k lump sum cushion payment if they lose their seat

OK....just trying to figure out if there is a correlation between newcomer loyalty i.e the first-timers elected in 2019 , who appear to be more pro Johnson and the financial rewards gained by MP's who last a full term.

No. The scheme changed some years ago (2015?) and it may even be a money purchase basis now. If not, it's a 1/60th.

Ahhh.... OK. Cheers Torq.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The old pensions terms were amazing, better than almost any executive pension scheme I worked on, but funnily enough they never mentioned that when complaining about their salaries.

Their salaries were too low, still are really even allowing for their pensions

Assume you are being sarcastic?

Lord no, it's a big job and wages should reflect that. If the voters still return idiots then that's a shame. As is the wages are well behind a lot of shitty middle management roles, and that's not right, partly for them having a comfortable living, but also with who it encourages into the role.

Yes the salary is still well ahead of the national average, but that's not an all encompassing concern

[Rhubarb & Custard]

True, and one of the "Brexit benefits" that I understood and thought was one of the few possible boons for this country was the idea that the wealth needed to be spread throughout the country, that proper spending would be required to counter the effects of Brexit and that non-London regions should have serious targeted investment.

But here we are, with the peak Brexit Government, filled with the most hardline Brexiteers, and they are fucking hopeless at this. Utterly incapable of serious policy. And, what's worse, it's pretty obvious they don't really give a shit. It was all hot air - a vote winner (both Brexit and election) with no substance behind it and never any ambition to create any.

I have a good friend who unwillingly voted to Remain but was very angry about the lack of funding for places like Yorkshire, where he lives. We didn't agree with much regarding Brexit, but the economic argument as a motivator for people to fuck the status quo made more sense than anything else.

Maybe naive but I genuinely thought they'd invest properly in the north, if nothing else because it's now in their electoral interests.

Yep, naive. 'Properly' would be several tens of billions a year for 20 years. Pushing up to a trillion total. Never going to happen.

Even if doing this in fairly miserly fashion you'd think a spend of £600 billion would be something of a cheap starting point, but it would at least be a starting point. As is we're getting 1% of a pathetically cheap entry point. It's utter, utter nonsense.

There is the odd point in there which is fine and dandy for the government to be getting on with, but those bits are tiny. Claiming it's part of a wide scale levelling up agenda rather than something so trivial it barely warrants an announcement to the Bracknell & Ascot Times is offensively stupid.

[Torquemada 1420]

Their salaries were too low, still are really even allowing for their pensions

Assume you are being sarcastic?

Lord no, it's a big job and wages should reflect that. If the voters still return idiots then that's a shame. As is the wages are well behind a lot of shitty middle management roles, and that's not right, partly for them having a comfortable living, but also with who it encourages into the role.

Yes the salary is still well ahead of the national average, but that's not an all encompassing concern

You'd have a point IF the majority of MPs were
- representing their constituents
- meaningfully involved in running the country (which is a huge responsibility, granted)

The reality is the country is run by a tiny clique headed by a PM. I don't know how true this is now, but of course, that clique used to have the vast Civil Service aiding the running (sometimes doing all the running!). The rest of them are basically tokens to give the illusion of representation.

[fishfoodie]

Bollox. Should be all of the above but with the current pay structure. The bottom MP pay (excluding pensions and expense fiddling) is £80k pa. For what is, in effect in most cases, a friggin' part time job that requires no qualifications or skills whatsoever.

Can’t agree. Then much like professionalism in other jobs (think sports in an earlier age for instance) you will only get rich people who don’t really need to do this for themselves of their families.
Pay top wacks and blanket ban other stuff.

The average MP represents 100k people so my MP costs me about 80p per annum. Sounds a bargain.

Do you feel the same way about Senior CS, High Court Judges, Chairs of QUANGOs, & God knows how many others, to whom the MPs pay, is linked by Grade ?

Let's not pretend the MPs pay can be raised in isolation.

[Happyhooker]

Can’t agree. Then much like professionalism in other jobs (think sports in an earlier age for instance) you will only get rich people who don’t really need to do this for themselves of their families.
Pay top wacks and blanket ban other stuff.

The average MP represents 100k people so my MP costs me about 80p per annum. Sounds a bargain.

Do you feel the same way about Senior CS, High Court Judges, Chairs of QUANGOs, & God knows how many others, to whom the MPs pay, is linked by Grade ?

Let's not pretend the MPs pay can be raised in isolation.

Huh? Isn't it regulated by IPSA and has been for over a decade. Don't think they have overview of any other salaries