Calcutta Cup match thread

[BnM]

Livid maybe but not because we lost it's because how.

Would you be more or less livid after a game in which Farrell kicked the ball away all game we didn't try to play at all and we still lost.

I hate kicking games any time any result.

[JM2K6]

Livid maybe but not because we lost it's because how.

Would you be more or less livid after a game in which Farrell kicked the ball away all game we didn't try to play at all and we still lost.

It's an interesting question. You can be angry at Farrell for not knowing anything else or being able to do much else. You can be angry at Eddie for making talented attacking players kick the fucking ball every time we had a promising attacking position.

[Flockwitt]

The tactic of kicking every ball away in the final third didn’t exactly work for England.

[Yr Alban]

Congrats Scotland.

I have been awake since 5:30 nursing a hangover from 9 hours of drinking, and started the day 230 miles & four trains away. That was not a kind match for me to watch. Bizarre game but no complaints about the result, definitely a rearguard action but took your chances and didn't lose your heads. Despite the England pack being miles on top in open play and at the maul, Scotland did enough at the lineout and capitalised on England's many errors and disciplinary lapses. The team looked like they had clearer heads and trusted a gameplan they believed would win.

Disappointed that Smith wasn't great today but there were a lot of weird decisions being made by England players and especially by Eddie Jones. Time for a rant on the England rugby thread.

Cheers pal. Been sick this week, 8 year old caught covid and now I have it so been a long week. This is a question bit of sunshine at the end of the week.

We were just a bit more clinical.

More clinical, a bit smarter, and a bit cooler under pressure. Hope the bug isn't too bad for you. Enjoy the weekend!

I’m on my 9th day in Covid jail. Lateral flow still positive. At least I can go outside tomorrow, though the weather looks shocking.

Result has lifted my day though…

[sefton]

Last minutes, two penalties, we’ve got Daly on the pitch, yet we leave Ford to use his pea shooter and make minimal distance.

[bessantj]

Well done Scotland, good win.

[duke]

Last minutes, two penalties, we’ve got Daly on the pitch, yet we leave Ford to use his pea shooter and make minimal distance.

I’d rather have seen Slade put it in the corner

[Lobby]

Last minutes, two penalties, we’ve got Daly on the pitch, yet we leave Ford to use his pea shooter and make minimal distance.

Both penalties on the right hand side, so either Slade or Daly would have been the better option.

[Ymx]

Happy to give a PT at in the last ten based on an assumption of the players intent but bottle a clear scrum pen at 79 how many times eg?


Anyroad well-done Scotland.

It wasn't that clear. The overhead shot showed Schoeman getting well on top and starting the turn.

Plus he missed the blatant squint line out that led to your try

And I’d like to check if Itoje was onside when he interfered with the ball to get the scrum in the first place.

He might have been, but obviously looked miles offside as he was in front of where the tackle rip happened (which didn’t go to ground), so depends on prev tackle to that.

[tc27]

Happy to give a PT at in the last ten based on an assumption of the players intent but bottle a clear scrum pen at 79 how many times eg?


Anyroad well-done Scotland.

It wasn't that clear. The overhead shot showed Schoeman getting well on top and starting the turn.

Plus he missed the blatant squint line out that led to your try

Just wanna say im a few pints in and passionate about this. More soreness about this is a hopefully a gift to you and not meant seriously

[Ovals]

Ref was honking (clear squint through before England try and probably 2 penalties to 1 penalty at that last scrums being two obvious areas), game wasn't great but Scotland would normally lose them.

Honestly he missed two neck rolls on Curry before he got round to that final one, and two high tackles on Simmonds by Fagerson, and there was one passage where Curry won a penalty after the ref had missed like 4 offences (including a not straight!) - so there were a few things that went against us but probably most of them were fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. He was desperate not to make a decision at that final scrum and had previously missed the Scottish player diving onto a knocked-on ball from miles offside, but then had also missed that the penalty he gave to Stuart should've been the other way round. Very strange behaviour in stoppage time with the scrums. Bit chickenshit IMO.

Nothing I can point to and say "ah, that's changed the result". Some things he was super hot on. Some things he just didn't seem able to pick up at all. Definitely wasn't the reason why it was 20-17 to Scotland in the last minute. Even if we'd gotten a penalty at the scrum, we were a mess.

Yeah - but it was Cowan Dickie who really screwed the pooch - we were relatively comfortable until that piece of idiocy - he could of just let the Scottish winger catch it and then immediately tackled him.

That centre partnership was naff - really had no impact at all. We could also have done with a Barbeary type ball carrier.

[Iain(bobbity)]

Just how did Scotland do that???

Of all the football codes, only Rugby can conjure up the twists and turns we saw in that last 15 minutes.

Someone didn't watch the Kidderminster Harriers match

[JM2K6]

Happy to give a PT at in the last ten based on an assumption of the players intent but bottle a clear scrum pen at 79 how many times eg?


Anyroad well-done Scotland.

It wasn't that clear. The overhead shot showed Schoeman getting well on top and starting the turn.

Plus he missed the blatant squint line out that led to your try

And I’d like to check if Itoje was onside when he interfered with the ball to get the scrum in the first place.

He might have been, but obviously looked miles offside as he was in front of where the tackle rip happened (which didn’t go to ground), so depends on prev tackle to that.

It was all open play. And then a Scot dived on the ball after Itoje had forced the knock on. But let's not start playing the game of trying to tot up which team benefited most from ref mistakes. As I mentioned earlier, England fans will have plenty of examples of him missing stuff that went against us, and of course there's obvious examples of ones that went for us. But no-one can seriously think this match came down to refereeing decisions rather than the decision making of both sides.

[Blackmac]

Happy to give a PT at in the last ten based on an assumption of the players intent but bottle a clear scrum pen at 79 how many times eg?


Anyroad well-done Scotland.

It wasn't that clear. The overhead shot showed Schoeman getting well on top and starting the turn.

Plus he missed the blatant squint line out that led to your try

Just wanna say im a few pints in and passionate about this. More soreness about this is a hopefully a gift to you and not meant seriously

Mate, you are an absolute gem compared to your countrymen, and the Welsh (who hate a Scottish win) over on PR. Enjoy the rest of your day and commiserations.

[JM2K6]

Ref was honking (clear squint through before England try and probably 2 penalties to 1 penalty at that last scrums being two obvious areas), game wasn't great but Scotland would normally lose them.

Honestly he missed two neck rolls on Curry before he got round to that final one, and two high tackles on Simmonds by Fagerson, and there was one passage where Curry won a penalty after the ref had missed like 4 offences (including a not straight!) - so there were a few things that went against us but probably most of them were fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. He was desperate not to make a decision at that final scrum and had previously missed the Scottish player diving onto a knocked-on ball from miles offside, but then had also missed that the penalty he gave to Stuart should've been the other way round. Very strange behaviour in stoppage time with the scrums. Bit chickenshit IMO.

Nothing I can point to and say "ah, that's changed the result". Some things he was super hot on. Some things he just didn't seem able to pick up at all. Definitely wasn't the reason why it was 20-17 to Scotland in the last minute. Even if we'd gotten a penalty at the scrum, we were a mess.

Yeah - but it was Cowan Dickie who really screwed the pooch - we were relatively comfortable until that piece of idiocy - he could of just let the Scottish winger catch it and then immediately tackled him.

That centre partnership was naff - really had no impact at all. We could also have done with a Barbeary type ball carrier.

LCD shit the bed there but he's a beefy close-quarters powerhouse hooker who found himself trying to defend a cross-field kick almost on his try-line in acres of space against an opposition winger - I'm not really surprised he panicked. He has some of the blame there but why were we in that situation? Well, as soon as Smith came off we suddenly defending really narrow and that gave Scotland the opportunity to attack wide one side, then put that kick through. I don't think it's fair to say it's all LCD's fault. The damage was already done, he just made it worse with a moment of panic - but the team had already suddenly panicked.

[Big D]

Some positives and negatives for both sides really.

Smith looks comfortable, your tight 5 was on top and maul game looks good.

Scotland defence was good, were clinical but we need more of the ball against the likes of France and Ireland.

And Duhan didn't drop any forward. Continuing to grow on that front.

[Ymx]

It wasn't that clear. The overhead shot showed Schoeman getting well on top and starting the turn.

Plus he missed the blatant squint line out that led to your try

And I’d like to check if Itoje was onside when he interfered with the ball to get the scrum in the first place.

He might have been, but obviously looked miles offside as he was in front of where the tackle rip happened (which didn’t go to ground), so depends on prev tackle to that.

It was all open play. And then a Scot dived on the ball after Itoje had forced the knock on. But let's not start playing the game of trying to tot up which team benefited most from ref mistakes. As I mentioned earlier, England fans will have plenty of examples of him missing stuff that went against us, and of course there's obvious examples of ones that went for us. But no-one can seriously think this match came down to refereeing decisions rather than the decision making of both sides.

Actually it was ironically Itoje who was the previous tackled player. Guess that puts him onside?

[Big D]

Ref was honking (clear squint through before England try and probably 2 penalties to 1 penalty at that last scrums being two obvious areas), game wasn't great but Scotland would normally lose them.

Honestly he missed two neck rolls on Curry before he got round to that final one, and two high tackles on Simmonds by Fagerson, and there was one passage where Curry won a penalty after the ref had missed like 4 offences (including a not straight!) - so there were a few things that went against us but probably most of them were fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. He was desperate not to make a decision at that final scrum and had previously missed the Scottish player diving onto a knocked-on ball from miles offside, but then had also missed that the penalty he gave to Stuart should've been the other way round. Very strange behaviour in stoppage time with the scrums. Bit chickenshit IMO.

Nothing I can point to and say "ah, that's changed the result". Some things he was super hot on. Some things he just didn't seem able to pick up at all. Definitely wasn't the reason why it was 20-17 to Scotland in the last minute. Even if we'd gotten a penalty at the scrum, we were a mess.

Yeah - but it was Cowan Dickie who really screwed the pooch - we were relatively comfortable until that piece of idiocy - he could of just let the Scottish winger catch it and then immediately tackled him.

That centre partnership was naff - really had no impact at all. We could also have done with a Barbeary type ball carrier.

Was good play by Finn to drag your back 3 out of place. Good recognition by LCD, a genuine attempt to catch the ball would have been enough.

Totally understandable he panicked.

[sefton]

I reckon the Scots backs beat more players with 5 minutes of possession than we managed in the rest of the game.

[Big D]

What I don't get is Gleeson is an ex rugby league player where they basically have their second rows run beside centres. That style of attack is custom made for Simmonds. Yet they don't play to.his strengths.

[Big D]

I reckon the Scots backs beat more players with 5 minutes of possession than we managed in the rest of the game.

17 v 6 according to preliminary stats on espn.

[Jim Lahey]

Congrats Scotland, well ground-out victory.

Sloppy enough game from both sides. Both need a kick up the arse this week in training.

[JM2K6]

I reckon the Scots backs beat more players with 5 minutes of possession than we managed in the rest of the game.

Graham equalled the entire England team on his own.



Anyway, I hope all the post match interviews start like this:


"Eddie, tell us about the genius idea to not get a hooker on when England have to throw in at a lineout on their own 5m line."

[TheFrog]

Ref was honking (clear squint through before England try and probably 2 penalties to 1 penalty at that last scrums being two obvious areas), game wasn't great but Scotland would normally lose them.

Honestly he missed two neck rolls on Curry before he got round to that final one, and two high tackles on Simmonds by Fagerson, and there was one passage where Curry won a penalty after the ref had missed like 4 offences (including a not straight!) - so there were a few things that went against us but probably most of them were fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. He was desperate not to make a decision at that final scrum and had previously missed the Scottish player diving onto a knocked-on ball from miles offside, but then had also missed that the penalty he gave to Stuart should've been the other way round. Very strange behaviour in stoppage time with the scrums. Bit chickenshit IMO.

Nothing I can point to and say "ah, that's changed the result". Some things he was super hot on. Some things he just didn't seem able to pick up at all. Definitely wasn't the reason why it was 20-17 to Scotland in the last minute. Even if we'd gotten a penalty at the scrum, we were a mess.

Yeah - but it was Cowan Dickie who really screwed the pooch - we were relatively comfortable until that piece of idiocy - he could of just let the Scottish winger catch it and then immediately tackled him.

That centre partnership was naff - really had no impact at all. We could also have done with a Barbeary type ball carrier.

Why was the hooker covering the wing in defense?

[JM2K6]

What I don't get is Gleeson is an ex rugby league player where they basically have their second rows run beside centres. That style of attack is custom made for Simmonds. Yet they don't play to.his strengths.

He has no kicking game...

He did pretty well though. 2nd most metres for England behind Malins. 56m into that defence when it was almost all tight carries was good going.

[sefton]

I reckon the Scots backs beat more players with 5 minutes of possession than we managed in the rest of the game.

Graham equalled the entire England team on his own.



Anyway, I hope all the post match interviews start like this:


"Eddie, tell us about the genius idea to not get a hooker on when England have to throw in at a lineout on their own 5m line."

Jeez, I’ll get PTSD if I remember the moment I realised he was actually going to throw in.

[Kawazaki]

And Duhan didn't drop any forward. Continuing to grow on that front.

Yes he did, a great big whopper knock-on in his own 22 but the ref said it went sideways. Bizarre.

[TheFrog]

Ultimately, hat off to Russell for spotting LTD isolated on the wing. This turned the game around.

[Big D]

What I don't get is Gleeson is an ex rugby league player where they basically have their second rows run beside centres. That style of attack is custom made for Simmonds. Yet they don't play to.his strengths.

He has no kicking game...

He did pretty well though. 2nd most metres for England behind Malins. 56m into that defence when it was almost all tight carries was good going.

I thought he was decent. Just have him play a wee bit wider and he'd thrive I think.

[Punter15]

And Duhan didn't drop any forward. Continuing to grow on that front.

Yes he did, a great big whopper knock-on in his own 22 but the ref said it went sideways. Bizarre.

As they are not explicit, we shall assume your congratulations are implied.

[Big D]

I reckon the Scots backs beat more players with 5 minutes of possession than we managed in the rest of the game.

Graham equalled the entire England team on his own.



Anyway, I hope all the post match interviews start like this:


"Eddie, tell us about the genius idea to not get a hooker on when England have to throw in at a lineout on their own 5m line."

Jeez, I’ll get PTSD if I remember the moment I realised he was actually going to throw in.

Only allowed thr sub for a scrum IIRC.

[Ovals]

Honestly he missed two neck rolls on Curry before he got round to that final one, and two high tackles on Simmonds by Fagerson, and there was one passage where Curry won a penalty after the ref had missed like 4 offences (including a not straight!) - so there were a few things that went against us but probably most of them were fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. He was desperate not to make a decision at that final scrum and had previously missed the Scottish player diving onto a knocked-on ball from miles offside, but then had also missed that the penalty he gave to Stuart should've been the other way round. Very strange behaviour in stoppage time with the scrums. Bit chickenshit IMO.

Nothing I can point to and say "ah, that's changed the result". Some things he was super hot on. Some things he just didn't seem able to pick up at all. Definitely wasn't the reason why it was 20-17 to Scotland in the last minute. Even if we'd gotten a penalty at the scrum, we were a mess.

Yeah - but it was Cowan Dickie who really screwed the pooch - we were relatively comfortable until that piece of idiocy - he could of just let the Scottish winger catch it and then immediately tackled him.

That centre partnership was naff - really had no impact at all. We could also have done with a Barbeary type ball carrier.

LCD shit the bed there but he's a beefy close-quarters powerhouse hooker who found himself trying to defend a cross-field kick almost on his try-line in acres of space against an opposition winger - I'm not really surprised he panicked. He has some of the blame there but why were we in that situation? Well, as soon as Smith came off we suddenly defending really narrow and that gave Scotland the opportunity to attack wide one side, then put that kick through. I don't think it's fair to say it's all LCD's fault. The damage was already done, he just made it worse with a moment of panic - but the team had already suddenly panicked.

Yep - good point about no one else being in place to deal with it. But a seasoned international shouldn't panic to the extent that he did. All in all we just wasted so much possession prior to that - we should of had a bit more of a cushion by then. Ah well - there were some good things to come out of the game - and some glaring deficiencies that need to be addressed. I don't think Marcus had one of his better games - I think he needs a bigger inside centre to work with.

[Kawazaki]

Honestly he missed two neck rolls on Curry before he got round to that final one, and two high tackles on Simmonds by Fagerson, and there was one passage where Curry won a penalty after the ref had missed like 4 offences (including a not straight!) - so there were a few things that went against us but probably most of them were fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. He was desperate not to make a decision at that final scrum and had previously missed the Scottish player diving onto a knocked-on ball from miles offside, but then had also missed that the penalty he gave to Stuart should've been the other way round. Very strange behaviour in stoppage time with the scrums. Bit chickenshit IMO.

Nothing I can point to and say "ah, that's changed the result". Some things he was super hot on. Some things he just didn't seem able to pick up at all. Definitely wasn't the reason why it was 20-17 to Scotland in the last minute. Even if we'd gotten a penalty at the scrum, we were a mess.

Yeah - but it was Cowan Dickie who really screwed the pooch - we were relatively comfortable until that piece of idiocy - he could of just let the Scottish winger catch it and then immediately tackled him.

That centre partnership was naff - really had no impact at all. We could also have done with a Barbeary type ball carrier.

Why was the hooker covering the wing in defense?

Maybe because the bloke in charge of England's defence literally never had a job at any level of RU before Eddie Jones gave him a job. Coaching the England team.

The England coaching group wouldn't even be good enough to improve Bath. It's not an elite environment. England rugby is fucked while the grifter remained in charge. And there's nobody in the RFU who manages him - literally nobody.

[unionfan]

Ultimately, hat off to Russell for spotting LTD isolated on the wing. This turned the game around.

Acually it was Russell second kick in the process: he kicked to his left for Duhan and then put it to his right. Classy

[Kawazaki]

And Duhan didn't drop any forward. Continuing to grow on that front.

Yes he did, a great big whopper knock-on in his own 22 but the ref said it went sideways. Bizarre.

As they are not explicit, we shall assume your congratulations are implied.

You need to apologise fella. Be the bigger man, recognise you let yourself down. In here you don't need to actually get your wallet out and buy a drink.

[PCPhil]

Yeah - but it was Cowan Dickie who really screwed the pooch - we were relatively comfortable until that piece of idiocy - he could of just let the Scottish winger catch it and then immediately tackled him.

That centre partnership was naff - really had no impact at all. We could also have done with a Barbeary type ball carrier.

LCD shit the bed there but he's a beefy close-quarters powerhouse hooker who found himself trying to defend a cross-field kick almost on his try-line in acres of space against an opposition winger - I'm not really surprised he panicked. He has some of the blame there but why were we in that situation? Well, as soon as Smith came off we suddenly defending really narrow and that gave Scotland the opportunity to attack wide one side, then put that kick through. I don't think it's fair to say it's all LCD's fault. The damage was already done, he just made it worse with a moment of panic - but the team had already suddenly panicked.

Yep - good point about no one else being in place to deal with it. But a seasoned international shouldn't panic to the extent that he did. All in all we just wasted so much possession prior to that - we should of had a bit more of a cushion by then. Ah well - there were some good things to come out of the game - and some glaring deficiencies that need to be addressed. I don't think Marcus had one of his better games - I think he needs a bigger inside centre to work with.

Can’t see Smith did much wrong. Although he did have the laser sharp scrummie passes to work off. But why the f take him off then. Just confusing the hell out of me. Please someone explain it to me.

[Hal Jordan]

Ultimately, hat off to Russell for spotting LTD isolated on the wing. This turned the game around.

Like a quarterback spotting that the cornerback"s blown coverage on the wide receiver, dink it over his head.

You wonder whether the better option for LCD was to let him catch it then either try and hit him as hard as possible to see if you can force touch or dislodge the ball, or shadow in to make him score in the corner so the conversion is hard.

[Margin__Walker]

Ultimately, hat off to Russell for spotting LTD isolated on the wing. This turned the game around.

Like a quarterback spotting that the cornerback"s blown coverage on the wide receiver, dink it over his head.

You wonder whether the better option for LCD was to let him catch it then either try and hit him as hard as possible to see if you can force touch or dislodge the ball, or shadow in to make him score in the corner so the conversion is hard.

Pretty much anything was the better option in that position.

Let him catch, then hit / tap it into your own ingoal / just wave him though for the try.

[Punter15]

Yes he did, a great big whopper knock-on in his own 22 but the ref said it went sideways. Bizarre.

As they are not explicit, we shall assume your congratulations are implied.

You need to apologise fella. Be the bigger man, recognise you let yourself down. In here you don't need to actually get your wallet out and buy a drink.

What for? You were being a deliberately obnoxious troll and got called out. Don’t like it, don’t do it. Same as you got in the last place.

Now, about those congratulations?

[JM2K6]

Graham equalled the entire England team on his own.



Anyway, I hope all the post match interviews start like this:


"Eddie, tell us about the genius idea to not get a hooker on when England have to throw in at a lineout on their own 5m line."

Jeez, I’ll get PTSD if I remember the moment I realised he was actually going to throw in.

Only allowed thr sub for a scrum IIRC.

You can still make a substitution. Just means you are sacrificing someone who'll stay off and will need to be replaced instead of LCD coming back on after the card period was up.