The Official English Rugby Thread

[Kawazaki]

Well done Italy, thoroughly deserved that win. England simply not good enough, and a bunch of whiney little bitches too, thought the ref had a great game.

She was brilliant. Where's she from, France I assume?

[Lobby]

Well done Italy, thoroughly deserved that win. England simply not good enough, and a bunch of whiney little bitches too, thought the ref had a great game.

She was brilliant. Where's she from, France I assume?

Yes. French international at 7s and 15s, but took up refereeing because of an injury. One of the best refereeing performances I have seen.

[Kawazaki]

Well done Italy, thoroughly deserved that win. England simply not good enough, and a bunch of whiney little bitches too, thought the ref had a great game.

She was brilliant. Where's she from, France I assume?

Yes. French international at 7s and 15s, but took up refereeing because of an injury. One of the best refereeing performances I have seen.

Hopefully she continues to develop and gets a few games in RWC2023.

[Torquemada 1420]

She was brilliant. Where's she from, France I assume?

Yes. French international at 7s and 15s, but took up refereeing because of an injury. One of the best refereeing performances I have seen.

Hopefully she continues to develop and gets a few games in RWC2023.

By contrast, the powers that be have uncovered another Scottish ref to screw French teams.

[Ovals]

She was brilliant. Where's she from, France I assume?

Yes. French international at 7s and 15s, but took up refereeing because of an injury. One of the best refereeing performances I have seen.

Hopefully she continues to develop and gets a few games in RWC2023.

She was very decisive and consistent - hope she gets some big games in the near future.

[Margin__Walker]

Just finished the U20s game. That was a shocker and not seeing how they'll turn that around against teams like France and Ireland. Fair play to Italy though. There age grade rugby is really kicking into gear now.

Mad game tonight at Ashton gate where LI beat Bristol 32 - 49. Bristol leading 15 - 10 at half time, with Irish a man down (Creevy). LI then scored 39 unanswered points and Bristol copped a red for a high shot, before managing to concede 3 tries to Bris in the final 5 minutes.

Shout out to SOB, who's a better hooker than Marler. Took four throws whilst Creevy was in the bin and nailed three of them.

From an England PoV, Pearson came off the bench and looked good. Scored a very sharp try where he had a bit to do.

[Crash669]

She was brilliant. Where's she from, France I assume?

Yes. French international at 7s and 15s, but took up refereeing because of an injury. One of the best refereeing performances I have seen.

Hopefully she continues to develop and gets a few games in RWC2023.

And conversely I hope the tmo who was trying to pressure her into giving a card for the non-foul hand off gets a slap. It wasn't really even a penalty but he was so insistent, but she did well not to be talked into a card.

Same for her not talking shit from the England doctor who was a disgrace at the end. They shouldn't be allowed to talk to the referee at all really.

[fishfoodie]

Just finished the U20s game. That was a shocker and not seeing how they'll turn that around against teams like France and Ireland. Fair play to Italy though. There age grade rugby is really kicking into gear now.

Mad game tonight at Ashton gate where LI beat Bristol 32 - 49. Bristol leading 15 - 10 at half time, with Irish a man down (Creevy). LI then scored 39 unanswered points and Bristol copped a red for a high shot, before managing to concede 3 tries to Bris in the final 5 minutes.

Shout out to SOB, who's a better hooker than Marler. Took four throws whilst Creevy was in the bin and nailed three of them.

From an England PoV, Pearson came off the bench and looked good. Scored a very sharp try where he had a bit to do.

There's a lot of bolloxology spoken sometimes, about the GAA skills; but it does give you better hand/eye skills from an early age, & it can pay off in situations like that.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

There are enough players in the prem who could become test standard, I believe,

I agree. But as is they are not.

If test rugby is about producing results you'd get graded on at 90% and above we're really well setup to produce players who score above 80%, bloody amazing players, just not so much quite at the elite level, then they're more okay/average

And the structure looks better set to perpetuate giving us a raft of such players, granted with some stars in say an Itoje or Curry

It's, sometimes, very hard to know if our players are capable (and ready) to play at the +90% level when they are so often played out of position.

We see someone like Steward come in, and excel, in the position he plays week in, week out, for his club. We see Slade develop into an extremely good international 13 - again, wher ehe plays for his club. Daly's form fell off a cliff when he was moved to a position he had no experience of. Curry is a world class 7 - but just a passable 8, where he keeps getting played by Eddie. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the drift.

Personally I think have plenty of excellent talent available, were we to play players where they are experienced - with just one or two positions lacking - and, even in those positions, such as SH, we'd be fine if Eddie took the opportunities to bring through another option, rather than stubbornly sticking with a SH who simply isn't good enough.

Whereas I don't think we've sen Steward come in and excel, he's been a mixed bag and if Daly had been making the mistakes Steward has it'd have been generating rather more opprobrium

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It's all part of the eternal Proper Centre (e.g. Carling) vs 2nd 5 (e.g. Catt) or something in between (Greenwood?) debate. Either system can work well if you have the right players. It's just annoying when you get someone who is not quite either and not good enough as a hybrid (e.g. Farrell).

I wouldn't say Nonu was closer to being a 10 than a 13, but he excelled at 12 (to my surprise, thought he was just a bosher to begin with).

Nonu was 'just' a bosher to begin with, but the NZ environment across club and country went to work on him. Whereas in England and even putting aside the injuries to Tuilagi it's nigh on impossible to claim anything like the same development, by the end of his NZ career Nonu had some sublime touches to his game, with Manu we've got to the point he sometimes lets go of the ball.

That said we're also a country that could put out a front row like Mako, George and Sinckler, and whatever the other merits therein that's actually a highly skilled front row, by anyone's standards. Does feel like that's about those players and not enough about the system.

[Ovals]

I agree. But as is they are not.

If test rugby is about producing results you'd get graded on at 90% and above we're really well setup to produce players who score above 80%, bloody amazing players, just not so much quite at the elite level, then they're more okay/average

And the structure looks better set to perpetuate giving us a raft of such players, granted with some stars in say an Itoje or Curry

It's, sometimes, very hard to know if our players are capable (and ready) to play at the +90% level when they are so often played out of position.

We see someone like Steward come in, and excel, in the position he plays week in, week out, for his club. We see Slade develop into an extremely good international 13 - again, wher ehe plays for his club. Daly's form fell off a cliff when he was moved to a position he had no experience of. Curry is a world class 7 - but just a passable 8, where he keeps getting played by Eddie. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the drift.

Personally I think have plenty of excellent talent available, were we to play players where they are experienced - with just one or two positions lacking - and, even in those positions, such as SH, we'd be fine if Eddie took the opportunities to bring through another option, rather than stubbornly sticking with a SH who simply isn't good enough.

Whereas I don't think we've sen Steward come in and excel, he's been a mixed bag and if Daly had been making the mistakes Steward has it'd have been generating rather more opprobrium

You're having a giraffe - The guy picked up two MoM in the Autumn series - against Aus and SA.

[Slick]

It's, sometimes, very hard to know if our players are capable (and ready) to play at the +90% level when they are so often played out of position.

We see someone like Steward come in, and excel, in the position he plays week in, week out, for his club. We see Slade develop into an extremely good international 13 - again, wher ehe plays for his club. Daly's form fell off a cliff when he was moved to a position he had no experience of. Curry is a world class 7 - but just a passable 8, where he keeps getting played by Eddie. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the drift.

Personally I think have plenty of excellent talent available, were we to play players where they are experienced - with just one or two positions lacking - and, even in those positions, such as SH, we'd be fine if Eddie took the opportunities to bring through another option, rather than stubbornly sticking with a SH who simply isn't good enough.

Whereas I don't think we've sen Steward come in and excel, he's been a mixed bag and if Daly had been making the mistakes Steward has it'd have been generating rather more opprobrium

You're having a giraffe - The guy picked up two MoM in the Autumn series - against Aus and SA.

He has been superb, best new England player I’ve seen for a while. Wasn’t great against Scotland though

[Biffer]

Views on the England medical team behaviour around the HIA in the U20game?

[SaintK]

Views on the England medical team behaviour around the HIA in the U20game?

Same as on the "Not Italy Again" thread
The England medics were wrong and it needs to be dealt with
And well played the referee

[Lobby]

Views on the England medical team behaviour around the HIA in the U20game?

Same as on the "Not Italy Again" thread
The England medics were wrong and it needs to be dealt with
And well played the referee

Agreed, disgraceful behaviour, both with regards to trying to avoid the HIA, and questioning the referee. The ref dealt with them both very well.

[sockwithaticket]

Views on the England medical team behaviour around the HIA in the U20game?

My post at the time from the thread

English staff with letters on their bibs not covering themselves in glory there.

Ref appeared to be answering the physio(? P bib) questioning whether they were checking for foul play. Not his place at all to be weighing in on that.

The doc (D bib) should know that there's an independent doctor capable of insisting on an HIA.

And in the cold light of this morning I reckon they should have a ban.

The doc in particular is embarassing, not only should he know the protocols that means his opinion isn't the ultimate one, these are U20s and should be getting taken off as a precaution anyway. There is no point risking these young men.

Also, another player would have been able to come on for the 3 minutes or so left in the game and I highly doubt Bailey was suddenly going to win the match in that time period. Why was it more crucial that he stay on than go for an HIA? Weird moment to pick a fight with the officials.

[geordie_6]

Seems like a very Joe Marler thing to do...

[Biffer]

Cheers guys, just wanted to check with the England guys on here that I wasn't taking a dick view for thinking of them as arses. It also reeks of misogyny as well, would they have done that to a male ref? (rhetorical, not expecting an answer)

I'll bugger off out of your thread now.

[Kawazaki]

It's all part of the eternal Proper Centre (e.g. Carling) vs 2nd 5 (e.g. Catt) or something in between (Greenwood?) debate. Either system can work well if you have the right players. It's just annoying when you get someone who is not quite either and not good enough as a hybrid (e.g. Farrell).

I wouldn't say Nonu was closer to being a 10 than a 13, but he excelled at 12 (to my surprise, thought he was just a bosher to begin with).

Nonu was 'just' a bosher to begin with, but the NZ environment across club and country went to work on him. Whereas in England and even putting aside the injuries to Tuilagi it's nigh on impossible to claim anything like the same development, by the end of his NZ career Nonu had some sublime touches to his game, with Manu we've got to the point he sometimes lets go of the ball.

That said we're also a country that could put out a front row like Mako, George and Sinckler, and whatever the other merits therein that's actually a highly skilled front row, by anyone's standards. Does feel like that's about those players and not enough about the system.

A ring-fenced Premiership will produce more positive play which in turn will develop players with better skillsets.

Fact.

[sockwithaticket]

Bath vs. Wasps in a bit.


Unavailable (10): Malakai Fekitoa, Dan Frost, Francois Hougaard, Zach Kibirige, Rodrigo Martinez, Matteo Minozzi, Jacob Umaga, Jack Willis, Tom Willis, Thomas Young.





Feikitoa broke himself last week, so the unavailable list tips back into double figures. Still, I'd like to think that this should be a relatively comfortable home victory given who we do have and the teams' relative form. Our back row is looking a bit ropey, though.

Maybe a Barfist (inactionman) can pass comment on their team, though I note a rare outing for Faletau. Kind of forgot that he was still on their books tbh.

[sockwithaticket]

To rid ourselves of Youngs, perhaps Eddie could be persuaded to play Barbeary at 9? He's just put in a pretty decent box kick in the Wasps game.

[sockwithaticket]

Wasps making hard work of it against Bath, have narrow lead at half time. Shields had to go off early which brought Barbeary on and he's been immense. I think we're suffering a little for having Gaskell and Morris as the other back rowers.

[sockwithaticket]

Red card for Rokoduguni to start the second half.

[Kawazaki]

Red card for Rokoduguni to start the second half.

What was that for, he's not a dirty player?

[sockwithaticket]

Red card for Rokoduguni to start the second half.

What was that for, he's not a dirty player?

He's had at least one red in the past.

He basically stood straight up to make a tackle and shouldered one of our guys in the jaw. No mitigation.

[duke]

Red card for Rokoduguni to start the second half.

What was that for, he's not a dirty player?

He's had at least one red in the past.

He basically stood straight up to make a tackle and shouldered one of our guys in the jaw. No mitigation.

Try again and check the stats

[sockwithaticket]

What was that for, he's not a dirty player?

He's had at least one red in the past.

He basically stood straight up to make a tackle and shouldered one of our guys in the jaw. No mitigation.

Try again and check the stats

My mistake, I could've sworn I've seen him sent off in a game before.

[duke]

He's had at least one red in the past.

He basically stood straight up to make a tackle and shouldered one of our guys in the jaw. No mitigation.

Try again and check the stats

My mistake, I could've sworn I've seen him sent off in a game before.

He’s had his fair share of yellows over the years

[sockwithaticket]

de Glanville jeopardises a really spirited Bath effort by getting yellowed for a deliberate knock on. Wasps do actually manage to score against 13 having been rather listless and inaccurate against 14.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It's, sometimes, very hard to know if our players are capable (and ready) to play at the +90% level when they are so often played out of position.

We see someone like Steward come in, and excel, in the position he plays week in, week out, for his club. We see Slade develop into an extremely good international 13 - again, wher ehe plays for his club. Daly's form fell off a cliff when he was moved to a position he had no experience of. Curry is a world class 7 - but just a passable 8, where he keeps getting played by Eddie. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the drift.

Personally I think have plenty of excellent talent available, were we to play players where they are experienced - with just one or two positions lacking - and, even in those positions, such as SH, we'd be fine if Eddie took the opportunities to bring through another option, rather than stubbornly sticking with a SH who simply isn't good enough.

Whereas I don't think we've sen Steward come in and excel, he's been a mixed bag and if Daly had been making the mistakes Steward has it'd have been generating rather more opprobrium

You're having a giraffe - The guy picked up two MoM in the Autumn series - against Aus and SA.

Which was good, though there were mistakes in those games, and he made more mistakes last weekend.

He looks a talent and I'm fine with picking him, but it seems daft to then pretend he's not making mistakes just because he's young or not Daly

[Ovals]

Whereas I don't think we've sen Steward come in and excel, he's been a mixed bag and if Daly had been making the mistakes Steward has it'd have been generating rather more opprobrium

You're having a giraffe - The guy picked up two MoM in the Autumn series - against Aus and SA.

Which was good, though there were mistakes in those games, and he made more mistakes last weekend.

He looks a talent and I'm fine with picking him, but it seems daft to then pretend he's not making mistakes just because he's young or not Daly

No one is pretending he hasn't made mistakes, all players do, and he wasn't great against Scotland. But to say he hasn't excelled over his, albeit short, international career, suggests that you are either ignoring the evidence, or have an agenda.

[Ovals]

de Glanville jeopardises a really spirited Bath effort by getting yellowed for a deliberate knock on. Wasps do actually manage to score against 13 having been rather listless and inaccurate against 14.

If we can keep up this little run of wins, throughout the 6N window, wecould still mount a strong challenge for a top 4 slot. Odds still against us but if Sarries beat Quins today, we could be just 1 point behind them - with a crunch game at the Stoop next weekend.

[sockwithaticket]

de Glanville jeopardises a really spirited Bath effort by getting yellowed for a deliberate knock on. Wasps do actually manage to score against 13 having been rather listless and inaccurate against 14.

If we can keep up this little run of wins, throughout the 6N window, wecould still mount a strong challenge for a top 4 slot. Odds still against us but if Sarries beat Quins today, we could be just 1 point behind them - with a crunch game at the Stoop next weekend.

We'll need to be better pull out a win even against a diminished Quins outfit, but we are on a little run. Had Bath not briefly gone down to 13 men we didn't look like winning this one. That said, we didn't look like winning at Exeter the previous week until almost the end.

Pleasantly surprised at how far up the table we've clambered with just a few more wins, try bonus points have helped. It's all really close in that 4th - 9th mid-section.

[Ovals]

Utterly ridiculous replacing Randall with 25 minutes left. Eddie does my head in

[Kawazaki]

Utterly ridiculous replacing Randall with 25 minutes left. Eddie does my head in

Youngs needs the development time, only got 12 more games before the RWC.

[Kawazaki]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... r-60368630

Very sad.

Not sure how you get fatally injured while scoring a try? Neck broken perhaps?

[Paddington Bear]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... r-60368630

Very sad.

Not sure how you get fatally injured while scoring a try? Neck broken perhaps?

Really hope it didn’t involve someone going in with their knees but that would be my guess

[tc27]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... r-60368630

Very sad.

Not sure how you get fatally injured while scoring a try? Neck broken perhaps?

Really hope it didn’t involve someone going in with their knees but that would be my guess

Fucking hell thats awful. What on earth happened?

[sockwithaticket]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-h ... r-60368630

Very sad.

Not sure how you get fatally injured while scoring a try? Neck broken perhaps?

Really hope it didn’t involve someone going in with their knees but that would be my guess

Yeah, there's an awful lot of dangerous stuff that gets allowed in the act of scoring or just after that would be deemed a foul if it happened in open play.

[JM2K6]

So... England.

It was nice to see the forwards playing with some freedom in the first half. Much better from Smith, largely because he got to run the game himself, and Randall loved it out there. Not a perfect performance from Randall but still pretty good and so snappy with the ball.

The Smith->Malins->Smith try was a thing of beauty, two extremely good attacking players turning a 2v4 into a try scored without a finger laid on either of them. George did well and although LCD was hamstrung by the other subs, was clearly having the better day of the two and that's excellent moving foward; having two top-class hookers is great news and George could well start the next game.

Steward I'm a little surprised by the level of complaints. Lads, when Torq says someone is anonymous, that doesn't mean it's true: he was solid but fairly invisible against Scotland, but he ran the ball for nearly 200m yesterday, he was heavily involved. Yes, a faster player probably would've scored that linebreak. Yes, he missed the opportunity to throw some offloads, one where he absolutely had to find Smith. Those are reasonable criticisms and given just how young and inexperienced he is there's plenty of chances for him to develop further. He rarely fucked up, though, and was great in the air, has a big boot, and is very solid at the back. I'll take all that front foot ball and territory.

Nowell was a total waste of a cap and while Daly did OK it would've been great to see Radwan start.

Dombrandt had a pleasing game, we saw some of those superb lines he can pick off Smith, and he's superb at the breakdown. The idea of a fit-again Willis at 6, Curry at 7, and Dombrandt at 8 is mouth-watering; it's a great mix of skills and some serious breakdown threat.

Not much to say about the subs. Sinckler showed Stuart up. LCD had a poor outing by his standards, and the pack was a mess in the second half - two 8s and a lock in the back row. Youngs was fucking shit from the start. Ford was thrown into an impossible situation really and dovetailed pretty well with Smith, but that's not a scenario we ever want in a live game situation.

Ultimately this is all fucking pointless, the only questions in Eddie's mind are Dombrandt v Simmonds, LCD v George, and "When is Owen back?". Otherwise it'll be same as for Scotland next time out.