Flake Russell: what's the point?

[I like neeps]

I see Horgan and Kearney and then Rugby Special putting the boot into Russell for a poor work rate i.e. being lazy when he doesn't have the ball.

This is actually tedious bollocks. Russell actually works bloody hard and puts in a lot of tackles. We suffered years of a 10 who didn’t tackle and the difference is huge. Footage from one game won’t change that.

The video of the Dupont try is damning. What's most damning is Townsend taking him off after what 55 minutes for Kinghorn of all people. I have long suspected it's Townsend driving the Kinghorn to 10 but still, I think Townsend is pretty unhappy at Finn's performance.

[Yr Alban]

Russell wasn't the primary problem with that backline. Him and the centres just don't click.

Correct. The re-selection of Tuipilotu is one of those weird Toony things that makes no sense to anyone except Toony.

[Yr Alban]

I see Horgan and Kearney and then Rugby Special putting the boot into Russell for a poor work rate i.e. being lazy when he doesn't have the ball.

This is actually tedious bollocks. Russell actually works bloody hard and puts in a lot of tackles. We suffered years of a 10 who didn’t tackle and the difference is huge. Footage from one game won’t change that.

The video of the Dupont try is damning. What's most damning is Townsend taking him off after what 55 minutes for Kinghorn of all people. I have long suspected it's Townsend driving the Kinghorn to 10 but still, I think Townsend is pretty unhappy at Finn's performance.

Read what I posted again, Torq. Finn Russell has about 60 caps. If you check his tackle stats you’ll
find he puts in a job of work in most games. The reputation he had for not putting in the effort was driven by his laughing off mistakes, and was unearned. He is not a lazy player. That doesn’t necessarily mean he wasn’t lazy yesterday.

[I like neeps]

This is actually tedious bollocks. Russell actually works bloody hard and puts in a lot of tackles. We suffered years of a 10 who didn’t tackle and the difference is huge. Footage from one game won’t change that.

The video of the Dupont try is damning. What's most damning is Townsend taking him off after what 55 minutes for Kinghorn of all people. I have long suspected it's Townsend driving the Kinghorn to 10 but still, I think Townsend is pretty unhappy at Finn's performance.

Read what I posted again, Torq. Finn Russell has about 60 caps. If you check his tackle stats you’ll
find he puts in a job of work in most games. The reputation he had for not putting in the effort was driven by his laughing off mistakes, and was unearned. He is not a lazy player. That doesn’t necessarily mean he wasn’t lazy yesterday.

There's legitimate questions about him after three games in the six nations. I didn't say he's a bad tackler but his effort was awful and resulted in a French try.

He hasn't played well enough the last two games - both chastening defeats - to be defended at all costs. Questions need to be asked now.

[Torquemada 1420]

I see Horgan and Kearney and then Rugby Special putting the boot into Russell for a poor work rate i.e. being lazy when he doesn't have the ball.

This is actually tedious bollocks. Russell actually works bloody hard and puts in a lot of tackles. We suffered years of a 10 who didn’t tackle and the difference is huge. Footage from one game won’t change that.

TBC, I wasn't agreeing with it: I don't have any evidence to have an opinion**. Just highlighting that it was a significant topic amongst retired pros.

** The only footage I saw was of an incident which reminded me of Woodentop scathing Michalak


and whereas Michalak was a serial offender, one incident isn't enough to convict Russell of being work shy. As an aside, I though Russell did have a poor game but Ntamack was worse. The difference is Ntamack could hide behind the excellence of the rest of his side whereas too many Scots had middling games.

[Yr Alban]

The video of the Dupont try is damning. What's most damning is Townsend taking him off after what 55 minutes for Kinghorn of all people. I have long suspected it's Townsend driving the Kinghorn to 10 but still, I think Townsend is pretty unhappy at Finn's performance.

Read what I posted again, Torq. Finn Russell has about 60 caps. If you check his tackle stats you’ll
find he puts in a job of work in most games. The reputation he had for not putting in the effort was driven by his laughing off mistakes, and was unearned. He is not a lazy player. That doesn’t necessarily mean he wasn’t lazy yesterday.

There's legitimate questions about him after three games in the six nations. I didn't say he's a bad tackler but his effort was awful and resulted in a French try.

He hasn't played well enough the last two games - both chastening defeats - to be defended at all costs. Questions need to be asked now.

Sorry, mistaken identity there - I thought I was replying to Torq. My bad!

I don’t disagree he has been poor this 6N, or that questions need to be asked. That’s all fine. What I objected to was the notion that he is a ‘lazy player’ because that clearly isn’t true across his Scotland career as a whole. He does need a boot up the arse now though.

[Torquemada 1420]

Sorry, mistaken identity there - I thought I was replying to Torq. My bad!

I don’t disagree he has been poor this 6N, or that questions need to be asked. That’s all fine. What I objected to was the notion that he is a ‘lazy player’ because that clearly isn’t true across his Scotland career as a whole. He does need a boot up the arse now though.

See my post above ^^^

[ASMO]

Horgan giving Russell a kicking as wll

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... Eu7na75oGQ

[Torquemada 1420]

Horgan giving Russell a kicking as wll

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... Eu7na75oGQ

I see Horgan and Kearney and then Rugby Special putting the boot into Russell for a poor work rate i.e. being lazy when he doesn't have the ball.

[LenCohen]

Horgan giving Russell a kicking as wll

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... Eu7na75oGQ

Is Shane Horgan actually morphing into a potato? And Williams looks like he might not be long for this world. Couple of cnuts

[Big D]

The lack of effort needs a kick in the balls.

Picking any 10 with centres who can't pass, kick or run any other sort of line than mostly straight is a recipe for the 10 having too much to do.

So far under the AB Zondagh our attack has relied heavily on cross kicks, breaks from contested kicks or returning kicks and very little goes through the centres.

All that doesn't excuse Russell's performance but it certainly doesn't help him.

There are a few that I think should be embarrassed after tape review this week, Russell on that first try and Price ambling back just after half time after his error too for starters.

The problem for Scotland is all the errors and lack of determination is adding up. 4 missed tackles and Russell ambling back created that 1st try. Any one of them does their job and France might not have scored.

[ASMO]

Russell is a luxury Scotland cannot afford right now, his contribution is a net negative, better to go with someone who may not have his flair, but is rock solid in attack and defence.

[Uncle fester]

Russell is a luxury Scotland cannot afford right now, his contribution is a net negative, better to go with someone who may not have his flair, but is rock solid in attack and defence.

Danish McBiggar is the man they need.

[Big D]

Russell is a luxury Scotland cannot afford right now, his contribution is a net negative, better to go with someone who may not have his flair, but is rock solid in attack and defence.

Russell is the attack. That's the thing, we have reduced our attacking patterns taking breaks from kicks or relying on Finns passing and/or kicking to get it wide to the wings as the centres offer nothing other than running straight.

Russell is a lightning rod for criticism, sometimes he's the the easy target but this time it is justified but we don't have a 10 with his range of skills or one that can compensate for lack of centres with any ball playing skill as he's been lumbered with, or a pack getting outplayed as they have been (esp. v Wales). He's also by far the best tackler (it isn't close) we have at 10 which, if gets Harris picked will be a plus for Russell in the eyes of the selectors.

If there was a viable option then great, but there isn't. Kinghorn isn't a 10, Thompson not ready and Hastings has been up and down all season and between getting 15min in November and being dropped for the 6N clearly the coaches aren't happy with him.

[laurent]

Russell is a luxury Scotland cannot afford right now, his contribution is a net negative, better to go with someone who may not have his flair, but is rock solid in attack and defence.

Russell is the attack. That's the thing, we have reduced our attacking patterns taking breaks from kicks or relying on Finns passing and/or kicking to get it wide to the wings as the centres offer nothing other than running straight.

Russell is a lightning rod for criticism, sometimes he's the the easy target but this time it is justified but we don't have a 10 with his range of skills or one that can compensate for lack of centres with any ball playing skill as he's been lumbered with, or a pack getting outplayed as they have been (esp. v Wales). He's also by far the best tackler (it isn't close) we have at 10 which, if gets Harris picked will be a plus for Russell in the eyes of the selectors.

If there was a viable option then great, but there isn't. Kinghorn isn't a 10, Thompson not ready and Hastings has been up and down all season and between getting 15min in November and being dropped for the 6N clearly the coaches aren't happy with him.

Actually in one of the FFR youtube channel were you see Shaun Edwards explicitly tell the French to tackle Russel / Hogg (ignore dummies) whatever happens + run Hogg Ragged as the Scotts backs were no threats.

[Big D]

Russell is a luxury Scotland cannot afford right now, his contribution is a net negative, better to go with someone who may not have his flair, but is rock solid in attack and defence.

Russell is the attack. That's the thing, we have reduced our attacking patterns taking breaks from kicks or relying on Finns passing and/or kicking to get it wide to the wings as the centres offer nothing other than running straight.

Russell is a lightning rod for criticism, sometimes he's the the easy target but this time it is justified but we don't have a 10 with his range of skills or one that can compensate for lack of centres with any ball playing skill as he's been lumbered with, or a pack getting outplayed as they have been (esp. v Wales). He's also by far the best tackler (it isn't close) we have at 10 which, if gets Harris picked will be a plus for Russell in the eyes of the selectors.

If there was a viable option then great, but there isn't. Kinghorn isn't a 10, Thompson not ready and Hastings has been up and down all season and between getting 15min in November and being dropped for the 6N clearly the coaches aren't happy with him.

Actually in one of the FFR youtube channel were you see Shaun Edwards explicitly tell the French to tackle Russel / Hogg (ignore dummies) whatever happens + run Hogg Ragged as the Scotts backs were no threats.

He's not wrong.

[Slick]

Russell is a luxury Scotland cannot afford right now, his contribution is a net negative, better to go with someone who may not have his flair, but is rock solid in attack and defence.

Russell is the attack. That's the thing, we have reduced our attacking patterns taking breaks from kicks or relying on Finns passing and/or kicking to get it wide to the wings as the centres offer nothing other than running straight.

Russell is a lightning rod for criticism, sometimes he's the the easy target but this time it is justified but we don't have a 10 with his range of skills or one that can compensate for lack of centres with any ball playing skill as he's been lumbered with, or a pack getting outplayed as they have been (esp. v Wales). He's also by far the best tackler (it isn't close) we have at 10 which, if gets Harris picked will be a plus for Russell in the eyes of the selectors.

If there was a viable option then great, but there isn't. Kinghorn isn't a 10, Thompson not ready and Hastings has been up and down all season and between getting 15min in November and being dropped for the 6N clearly the coaches aren't happy with him.

This and your previous post is about as good a summing up as I've seen, agree 100%

[ASMO]

Russell is a luxury Scotland cannot afford right now, his contribution is a net negative, better to go with someone who may not have his flair, but is rock solid in attack and defence.

Russell is the attack. That's the thing, we have reduced our attacking patterns taking breaks from kicks or relying on Finns passing and/or kicking to get it wide to the wings as the centres offer nothing other than running straight.

Russell is a lightning rod for criticism, sometimes he's the the easy target but this time it is justified but we don't have a 10 with his range of skills or one that can compensate for lack of centres with any ball playing skill as he's been lumbered with, or a pack getting outplayed as they have been (esp. v Wales). He's also by far the best tackler (it isn't close) we have at 10 which, if gets Harris picked will be a plus for Russell in the eyes of the selectors.

If there was a viable option then great, but there isn't. Kinghorn isn't a 10, Thompson not ready and Hastings has been up and down all season and between getting 15min in November and being dropped for the 6N clearly the coaches aren't happy with him.

This is exactly why he is a luxury, without the supporting cast that can take advantage of his skillset, you might as well have someone in there that does the basics better, chases more, defends better etc etc.

[Slick]

Russell is a luxury Scotland cannot afford right now, his contribution is a net negative, better to go with someone who may not have his flair, but is rock solid in attack and defence.

Russell is the attack. That's the thing, we have reduced our attacking patterns taking breaks from kicks or relying on Finns passing and/or kicking to get it wide to the wings as the centres offer nothing other than running straight.

Russell is a lightning rod for criticism, sometimes he's the the easy target but this time it is justified but we don't have a 10 with his range of skills or one that can compensate for lack of centres with any ball playing skill as he's been lumbered with, or a pack getting outplayed as they have been (esp. v Wales). He's also by far the best tackler (it isn't close) we have at 10 which, if gets Harris picked will be a plus for Russell in the eyes of the selectors.

If there was a viable option then great, but there isn't. Kinghorn isn't a 10, Thompson not ready and Hastings has been up and down all season and between getting 15min in November and being dropped for the 6N clearly the coaches aren't happy with him.

This is exactly why he is a luxury, without the supporting cast that can take advantage of his skillset, you might as well have someone in there that does the basics better, chases more, defends better etc etc.

Not sure you've read the post properly

[Big D]

Russell is a luxury Scotland cannot afford right now, his contribution is a net negative, better to go with someone who may not have his flair, but is rock solid in attack and defence.

Russell is the attack. That's the thing, we have reduced our attacking patterns taking breaks from kicks or relying on Finns passing and/or kicking to get it wide to the wings as the centres offer nothing other than running straight.

Russell is a lightning rod for criticism, sometimes he's the the easy target but this time it is justified but we don't have a 10 with his range of skills or one that can compensate for lack of centres with any ball playing skill as he's been lumbered with, or a pack getting outplayed as they have been (esp. v Wales). He's also by far the best tackler (it isn't close) we have at 10 which, if gets Harris picked will be a plus for Russell in the eyes of the selectors.

If there was a viable option then great, but there isn't. Kinghorn isn't a 10, Thompson not ready and Hastings has been up and down all season and between getting 15min in November and being dropped for the 6N clearly the coaches aren't happy with him.

This is exactly why he is a luxury, without the supporting cast that can take advantage of his skillset, you might as well have someone in there that does the basics better, chases more, defends better etc etc.

Not sure you've picked up what i meant. Apologies.

Finns workrate in the France game was unacceptable. That's a given and it isn't usually that bad but must improve.

Finn is the best tacking 10 that Scotland have, he's probably the second best defender from the backs on the squad. This coaching staff put a lot of weight on defence hence Harris is in ahead of far better attackers.

The coaches game plan, when using these centres isn't far off "Finn, do something magic" unless from a kick then it is "Hoggy/Duhan/Graham do something magic".. No other 10 available can do it. That's not a Finn thing, it is a coaching decision.

I've been off work so looked back over the games since November. Scotland are at their best with Russell and Johnson playing off each other. Tuipolotu can't pass to an international level and Harris is a handbrake. Between them through poor identification or passing blew 3 overlaps on Saturday, one of which was a certain score. As soon as Johnson isn't there the game plan changes to cross kicks and miss passes due to the lack of skills and speed in the centres. In the Japan and Wales games tries come from wide passes no other Scottish 10 can make off their left hand.

Finn is in poor form, no doubt about it, however no other available 10 can get close to playing how Townsend and Zondagh are asking him to play, neither can he at the moment even if he does produce the odd bit of magic (penalty try v England and wide ball v Wales).

So by all means Scotland can drop Russell but the centres and gameplan need to go too. Or we could put Finn in a sensible attacking structure, with at least an international level 12. At the moment either would be fine for the Italy game. Johnson or Hutchinson must come in at 12.

[Torquemada 1420]

Russell is a luxury Scotland cannot afford right now, his contribution is a net negative, better to go with someone who may not have his flair, but is rock solid in attack and defence.

Danish McBiggar is the man they need.

I'd take Dan LePlusgrand too.

[Torquemada 1420]

Actually in one of the FFR youtube channel were you see Shaun Edwards explicitly tell the French to tackle Russel / Hogg (ignore dummies) whatever happens + run Hogg Ragged as the Scotts backs were no threats.

There was some analysis on video at the weekend which showed exactly that. Sco centres running dummy lines which Fickou and Danty simply ignored continuously so when the Sco wings actually got the ball, they were being cut down and then overpowered at the breakdown by the Fre centres.

[Torquemada 1420]

Finn is in poor form, no doubt about it,

And it's been getting worse for Racing over the last year, which is why I started the thread (in annoyance). For Racing, Antoine Gibert is now a far better option and if I were them, I'd have offloaded Russell from the pay burden.

[Yr Alban]

Finn is in poor form, no doubt about it,

And it's been getting worse for Racing over the last year, which is why I started the thread (in annoyance). For Racing, Antoine Gibert is now a far better option and if I were them, I'd have offloaded Russell from the pay burden.

He hasn’t been in poor form for a whole year though, or at least he hasn’t for Scotland. Hence the derisive responses you had at the time. It just so happens that right now we agree with you.

[Torquemada 1420]

Finn is in poor form, no doubt about it,

And it's been getting worse for Racing over the last year, which is why I started the thread (in annoyance). For Racing, Antoine Gibert is now a far better option and if I were them, I'd have offloaded Russell from the pay burden.

He hasn’t been in poor form for a whole year though, or at least he hasn’t for Scotland. Hence the derisive responses you had at the time. It just so happens that right now we agree with you.

Kerrist, you sweaties have some serious reading problems.

Maybe there is something to this "lazy" thing if he was putting in half arsed efforts for his club but giving his all for his country? Or he has an attitude problem? Let's not forget he was dropped by Sco for bad behaviour and his response was to criticise his coach in the press.

[Biffer]

The clearest indication of Russell being a good defender is that no coach has ever hidden him. We’ve all seen plenty of tens who have been dropped back or moved out in the defensive line to accommodate their poor defence. That’s never happened with him.

[Torquemada 1420]

The clearest indication of Russell being a good defender is that no coach has ever hidden him. We’ve all seen plenty of tens who have been dropped back or moved out in the defensive line to accommodate their poor defence. That’s never happened with him.

I don't think this furore has been about his courage in defending but the claim that he is not making the effort to get back to do so. Again, based on, from what I can see, one game.

[Torquemada 1420]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/60779434

Seems Townsend has had enough for now.

[Torquemada 1420]

Easily Russell's best game of the season for Racing tonight. One caveat: both sides happy to play harem scarum so no real structure in either defence.

[Torquemada 1420]

Russell continues to have a dire start to the season. At least he's consistent.

Les flops

Finn Russell : Le demi d’ouverture écossais a encore une fois déçu, toujours dans le même registtre. Il a beaucoup tenté, il a peu réussi, il a gâché deux ou trois ballons en début de rencontre à un moment où le Racing pouvait espérer troubler la mécanique toulousaine. Il fournit en deuxième période le ballon d’interception à Capuozzo par une passe vraiment trop molle. Bizarre pour un Ecossais, on eut l’impression que la pluie tombait plus sur lui que sur son vis à vis Ramos.

and his annual intercept count is well under way.

[Torquemada 1420]

Flake gets handed a get out of jail card with a last gasp pen by LaR: after in the last 10 mins of the game he'd missed one in front of the posts and then waved Hastoy to the line for a try. Commentator wees his pants at the "match winner".

[Slick]

Flake gets handed a get out of jail card with a last gasp pen by LaR: after in the last 10 mins of the game he'd missed one in front of the posts and then waved Hastoy to the line for a try. Commentator wees his pants at the "match winner".

Did it win the match?

[Uncle fester]

The man has balls of steel to land a match winner like that.

[Torquemada 1420]

The man has balls of steel to land a match winner like that.

[LenCohen]

Flake gets handed a get out of jail card with a last gasp pen by LaR: after in the last 10 mins of the game he'd missed one in front of the posts and then waved Hastoy to the line for a try. Commentator wees his pants at the "match winner".

A Nanterre, Finn Russell, excellent dans ses tirs aux buts et très bon dans l’animation du jeu, a livré une très grande performance samedi soir.

The notoriously foreigner averse Midol disagrees

[Torquemada 1420]

Flake gets handed a get out of jail card with a last gasp pen by LaR: after in the last 10 mins of the game he'd missed one in front of the posts and then waved Hastoy to the line for a try. Commentator wees his pants at the "match winner".

A Nanterre, Finn Russell, excellent dans ses tirs aux buts et très bon dans l’animation du jeu, a livré une très grande performance samedi soir.

The notoriously foreigner averse Midol disagrees

Actually, Bernol is exactly the reverse. It tends to overstate foreign players and always has done.

Anyway, he did have a reasonable game but the point remains that he will do 1 or 2 really bad things (or more) every game.

[charltom]

You'll like this:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/ ... Paris.html

[charltom]

And this one even better:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... menubutton

[LenCohen]

Flake gets handed a get out of jail card with a last gasp pen by LaR: after in the last 10 mins of the game he'd missed one in front of the posts and then waved Hastoy to the line for a try. Commentator wees his pants at the "match winner".

A Nanterre, Finn Russell, excellent dans ses tirs aux buts et très bon dans l’animation du jeu, a livré une très grande performance samedi soir.

The notoriously foreigner averse Midol disagrees

Actually, Bernol is exactly the reverse. It tends to overstate foreign players and always has done.

Anyway, he did have a reasonable game but the point remains that he will do 1 or 2 really bad things (or more) every game.

Ah so you love him really

[weegie01]

Flake gets handed a get out of jail card with a last gasp pen by LaR: after in the last 10 mins of the game he'd missed one in front of the posts and then waved Hastoy to the line for a try. Commentator wees his pants at the "match winner".

You do know we can watch French matches in the UK?

Kicks from between the 15m and touch lines are not traditionally called 'in front of the posts'. Nonetheless, given he had been knocking over hard kicks all match to get to 9/10 successful kicks you'd expect him to get it.

Klemenczak missed the tackle on Hastoy leaving Russell defending a three on one. If he had stopped that try it would have been a miracle, or incompetence by Hastoy.

Apart from that, spot on.