The Official English Rugby Thread

[inactionman]

Joe Maddock in as attack coach at Bath, just to confuse me even more as to who is doing what and when.

He was a great player for Bath back in the day, and he's had a spell as coach of Canterbury. Hopeful signs.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

You're naming players that have literally just come in or in the case of Barbeary, still not in.

He talks about the RWC being the only thing he's interested in (which in itself is a fucking disgrace) but then largely wastes 2020 and 2021 picking the same team who lost RWC2019 only to drop some of them mid-cycle. There are only 13 tests now before the start of RWC23. We still don't have any depth at 9, 3, 5, 6 or 12 just as we didn't have at RWC19. He's just ignored the problem. It's like he's hoping everyone has forgotten he had to fly the dispirited and ignored Ben Spencer (who's just been ignored again) halfway around the world to go straight onto the bench just 3 days before the RWC final. That is selection management incompetence and it's all on Jones. We've also had a pair of fifth place finishes in the 6Ns with another one a distinct possibility this year. The fucking review into last year's debacle didn't even include the performance of Jones in the terms of reference by the anonymous 'experts', and the findings were never published anyway, just some flowery excerpts leaked to the usual press mules.

Repeat, he's had everything bar any discernible line management above him for over six years. This is his creation.

And for a lot of that 6 year period he's enjoyed a decent standard of success, at least if looking at win %.

Yes some of the players have only recently been selected, and yes it's odd he somewhat wasted the last 2 years, but he is now selecting a lot of new talent, and they're doing (some) good stuff. Consequently it's not a total mess, it's only, and as noted, a partial mess.

If he's ignored ben Spencer then good for him, if only he'd ignored Heinz and Wigglesworth more too.

[SaintK]

So Lewis Ludlow (flanker) and Will Goodrick-Clark (prop) added to the England tyrainingt squad this week.
Curry won't train due to return to play protocols and Daly left out of the 25 man squad training at Clifton this week
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/ ... gland/

[inactionman]

So Lewis Ludlow (flanker) and Will Goodrick-Clark (prop) added to the England tyrainingt squad this week.
Curry won't train due to return to play protocols and Daly left out of the 25 man squad training at Clifton this week
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/ ... gland/

I've only caught a few Gloucester games this season but they look a lot more powerful than in past seasons, and Ludlow looks in good nick and is captaining them. Still a bit of a surprise, thought there would have been a few cabs nearer head of rank for England backrow.

I've not seen any LI so not a clue on Goodrick-Clark - any Irish fans who can give a view?

[Paddington Bear]

And for a lot of that 6 year period he's enjoyed a decent standard of success, at least if looking at win %.

I think we need to be less churlish about this - he's won three six nations including a Grand Slam - the Grand Slam was our first for 13 years and we'd won the Championship once in between times. We reached a World Cup final playing superb rugby, we've lost at home twice, swept Australia down under etc. He's been a very successful coach. Whether he can continue to be is another question.

[Happyhooker]

So Lewis Ludlow (flanker) and Will Goodrick-Clark (prop) added to the England tyrainingt squad this week.
Curry won't train due to return to play protocols and Daly left out of the 25 man squad training at Clifton this week
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/ ... gland/

I've only caught a few Gloucester games this season but they look a lot more powerful than in past seasons, and Ludlow looks in good nick and is captaining them. Still a bit of a surprise, thought there would have been a few cabs nearer head of rank for England backrow.

I've not seen any LI so not a clue on Goodrick-Clark - any Irish fans who can give a view?

I've seen a bit of goodrick Clark this season. Very decent player but slightly surprised to see him that high amongst the loose heads.

I don't think Ludlow will ever be anything more than a decent premiership player

[Margin__Walker]

So Lewis Ludlow (flanker) and Will Goodrick-Clark (prop) added to the England tyrainingt squad this week.
Curry won't train due to return to play protocols and Daly left out of the 25 man squad training at Clifton this week
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/ ... gland/

I've only caught a few Gloucester games this season but they look a lot more powerful than in past seasons, and Ludlow looks in good nick and is captaining them. Still a bit of a surprise, thought there would have been a few cabs nearer head of rank for England backrow.

I've not seen any LI so not a clue on Goodrick-Clark - any Irish fans who can give a view?

He's very good (but then I would say that)

Came through the hard way. Released by Gloucester as a teenager, before making a name for himself at Richmond in the Championship.

He's been nailed on 1st choice LH this season and last season, in front of internationals (Dell and Gigena). Plays a bit like a pound shop Marler. Big lad, scrums well, hits hard etc. Very different player to Rodd

He's here to hold tackle bags though really.

[SaintK]

So Lewis Ludlow (flanker) and Will Goodrick-Clark (prop) added to the England tyrainingt squad this week.
Curry won't train due to return to play protocols and Daly left out of the 25 man squad training at Clifton this week
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/ ... gland/

Bit more info and some "odd" selections!!!

The most noticeable absentee is George Ford who has seen his hold on the No 10 jersey wrenched from his grasp by Marcus Smith. Ford, who will be leaving Leicester Tigers at the end of the season for a move to Sale Sharks, had recently found his way back in the England fold but played only 22 minutes against Scotland and Italy and was an unused substitute in the win over Wales. Elliot Daly is the other surprise omission in the backline given he has started two of England’s matches at 13 this campaign.

In their place comes the uncapped London Irish wing Ollie Hassell-Collins and Northampton’s George Furbank, who can cover both 10 and 15 off the bench.

The forward pack sees a raft of changes with an entirely new front row set. Luke-Cowan Dickie’s selection was unlikely after a knee injury he sustained against Wales. He’s been replaced by Newcastle’s Jamie Blamire. Props Joe Marler and Bevan Rodd also miss out. The uncapped duo of William Goodrick-Clarke and Alfie Barbeary will, if given the chance, provide evidence of England’s front-row reserves against a formidable Irish pack.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022 ... nd-match

[Kawazaki]

And for a lot of that 6 year period he's enjoyed a decent standard of success, at least if looking at win %.

I think we need to be less churlish about this - he's won three six nations including a Grand Slam - the Grand Slam was our first for 13 years and we'd won the Championship once in between times. We reached a World Cup final playing superb rugby, we've lost at home twice, swept Australia down under etc. He's been a very successful coach. Whether he can continue to be is another question.

That old expression about knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing springs to mind when I think of Jones now.

He's not right. We all know it.

[sockwithaticket]

So Lewis Ludlow (flanker) and Will Goodrick-Clark (prop) added to the England tyrainingt squad this week.
Curry won't train due to return to play protocols and Daly left out of the 25 man squad training at Clifton this week
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/ ... gland/

Bit more info and some "odd" selections!!!

The most noticeable absentee is George Ford who has seen his hold on the No 10 jersey wrenched from his grasp by Marcus Smith. Ford, who will be leaving Leicester Tigers at the end of the season for a move to Sale Sharks, had recently found his way back in the England fold but played only 22 minutes against Scotland and Italy and was an unused substitute in the win over Wales. Elliot Daly is the other surprise omission in the backline given he has started two of England’s matches at 13 this campaign.

In their place comes the uncapped London Irish wing Ollie Hassell-Collins and Northampton’s George Furbank, who can cover both 10 and 15 off the bench.

The forward pack sees a raft of changes with an entirely new front row set. Luke-Cowan Dickie’s selection was unlikely after a knee injury he sustained against Wales. He’s been replaced by Newcastle’s Jamie Blamire. Props Joe Marler and Bevan Rodd also miss out. The uncapped duo of William Goodrick-Clarke and Alfie Barbeary will, if given the chance, provide evidence of England’s front-row reserves against a formidable Irish pack.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022 ... nd-match

Tbf, being left out during the fallow week doesn't mean anything. Marler and someone else I'm forgetting went back to their clubs last time whereas Launchbury and Barbeary were retained and we know who did and didn't line up against Wales.

Anyone coming in fresh now is just holding tacklebags in training while others go get some game time.

[Ovals]

So Lewis Ludlow (flanker) and Will Goodrick-Clark (prop) added to the England tyrainingt squad this week.
Curry won't train due to return to play protocols and Daly left out of the 25 man squad training at Clifton this week
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/ ... gland/

Bit more info and some "odd" selections!!!

The most noticeable absentee is George Ford who has seen his hold on the No 10 jersey wrenched from his grasp by Marcus Smith. Ford, who will be leaving Leicester Tigers at the end of the season for a move to Sale Sharks, had recently found his way back in the England fold but played only 22 minutes against Scotland and Italy and was an unused substitute in the win over Wales. Elliot Daly is the other surprise omission in the backline given he has started two of England’s matches at 13 this campaign.

In their place comes the uncapped London Irish wing Ollie Hassell-Collins and Northampton’s George Furbank, who can cover both 10 and 15 off the bench.

The forward pack sees a raft of changes with an entirely new front row set. Luke-Cowan Dickie’s selection was unlikely after a knee injury he sustained against Wales. He’s been replaced by Newcastle’s Jamie Blamire. Props Joe Marler and Bevan Rodd also miss out. The uncapped duo of William Goodrick-Clarke and Alfie Barbeary will, if given the chance, provide evidence of England’s front-row reserves against a formidable Irish pack.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022 ... nd-match

Wonder how much that journalist knows about our players if he thinks Barbeary will show evidence of our front row reserves, given that he hasn't played there for years and is there as a backrow.

[SaintK]

So Lewis Ludlow (flanker) and Will Goodrick-Clark (prop) added to the England tyrainingt squad this week.
Curry won't train due to return to play protocols and Daly left out of the 25 man squad training at Clifton this week
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/ ... gland/

Bit more info and some "odd" selections!!!

The most noticeable absentee is George Ford who has seen his hold on the No 10 jersey wrenched from his grasp by Marcus Smith. Ford, who will be leaving Leicester Tigers at the end of the season for a move to Sale Sharks, had recently found his way back in the England fold but played only 22 minutes against Scotland and Italy and was an unused substitute in the win over Wales. Elliot Daly is the other surprise omission in the backline given he has started two of England’s matches at 13 this campaign.

In their place comes the uncapped London Irish wing Ollie Hassell-Collins and Northampton’s George Furbank, who can cover both 10 and 15 off the bench.

The forward pack sees a raft of changes with an entirely new front row set. Luke-Cowan Dickie’s selection was unlikely after a knee injury he sustained against Wales. He’s been replaced by Newcastle’s Jamie Blamire. Props Joe Marler and Bevan Rodd also miss out. The uncapped duo of William Goodrick-Clarke and Alfie Barbeary will, if given the chance, provide evidence of England’s front-row reserves against a formidable Irish pack.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022 ... nd-match

Tbf, being left out during the fallow week doesn't mean anything. Marler and someone else I'm forgetting went back to their clubs last time whereas Launchbury and Barbeary were retained and we know who did and didn't line up against Wales.

Anyone coming in fresh now is just holding tacklebags in training while others go get some game time.

Ah yes, completely forgot it's a blank weekend this week

[Rhubarb & Custard]

And for a lot of that 6 year period he's enjoyed a decent standard of success, at least if looking at win %.

I think we need to be less churlish about this - he's won three six nations including a Grand Slam - the Grand Slam was our first for 13 years and we'd won the Championship once in between times. We reached a World Cup final playing superb rugby, we've lost at home twice, swept Australia down under etc. He's been a very successful coach. Whether he can continue to be is another question.

He does seem to have both delayed this team selection and to be not quite sure what he wants from it. If this is the new us, looking to work up the middle and exploit transition he needs to stick with it, he can add to it, but he's gone a bit Martin Johnson switching plans rather quickly and the team needs some time to gain experience and settle with the tactics.

We don't know of course how hard the team are being worked, fading in the 2nd half could suggest we've some big problems or that the focus is rather on the WC

[Paddington Bear]

And for a lot of that 6 year period he's enjoyed a decent standard of success, at least if looking at win %.

I think we need to be less churlish about this - he's won three six nations including a Grand Slam - the Grand Slam was our first for 13 years and we'd won the Championship once in between times. We reached a World Cup final playing superb rugby, we've lost at home twice, swept Australia down under etc. He's been a very successful coach. Whether he can continue to be is another question.

He does seem to have both delayed this team selection and to be not quite sure what he wants from it. If this is the new us, looking to work up the middle and exploit transition he needs to stick with it, he can add to it, but he's gone a bit Martin Johnson switching plans rather quickly and the team needs some time to gain experience and settle with the tactics.

We don't know of course how hard the team are being worked, fading in the 2nd half could suggest we've some big problems or that the focus is rather on the WC

No doubt there's a focus on the WC and that's fine. Teams have to transition some time. Go back a couple of years and Ireland and France, two of the best teams in the world right now, were pretty average.

The glaring thing that's driving me nuts about our current side is the complete lack of punch in mid-field. Albeit you have to assume he was relying on Tuilagi to do this against Wales, it's bloody hard to score tries if your midfield offers nothing going forward. Otherwise? Pack looks good and put in a very good shift against Wales, Randall will settle in, Smith we know about and back three look decent. I'd put more money on it coming together than it not. There aren't many key players you'd say are unlikely to make the WC, Smith and Randall will likely have 20-30 caps each by the time we get to France and please god we'll have worked out what we're doing in the centres.

Also we can still win this 6N! Twickenham is a bloody tough place to come and win and our record vs Ireland is pretty impressive. France for all their excitement have glaring weaknesses in defence that a good week of planning and prep could unthread. They've shown a lack of bottle before and the pressure of (likely) bringing a GS back to Paris will be at fever pitch. We'll go as underdogs, don't get me wrong, but I don't share in a lot of the defeatism I see.

[JM2K6]

If only it were just France. Ireland will give us a hiding.

[Paddington Bear]

If only it were just France. Ireland will give us a hiding.

Referenced Ireland. We'll see.

[ASMO]

I think we need to be less churlish about this - he's won three six nations including a Grand Slam - the Grand Slam was our first for 13 years and we'd won the Championship once in between times. We reached a World Cup final playing superb rugby, we've lost at home twice, swept Australia down under etc. He's been a very successful coach. Whether he can continue to be is another question.

He does seem to have both delayed this team selection and to be not quite sure what he wants from it. If this is the new us, looking to work up the middle and exploit transition he needs to stick with it, he can add to it, but he's gone a bit Martin Johnson switching plans rather quickly and the team needs some time to gain experience and settle with the tactics.

We don't know of course how hard the team are being worked, fading in the 2nd half could suggest we've some big problems or that the focus is rather on the WC

No doubt there's a focus on the WC and that's fine. Teams have to transition some time. Go back a couple of years and Ireland and France, two of the best teams in the world right now, were pretty average.

The glaring thing that's driving me nuts about our current side is the complete lack of punch in mid-field. Albeit you have to assume he was relying on Tuilagi to do this against Wales, it's bloody hard to score tries if your midfield offers nothing going forward. Otherwise? Pack looks good and put in a very good shift against Wales, Randall will settle in, Smith we know about and back three look decent. I'd put more money on it coming together than it not. There aren't many key players you'd say are unlikely to make the WC, Smith and Randall will likely have 20-30 caps each by the time we get to France and please god we'll have worked out what we're doing in the centres.

Also we can still win this 6N! Twickenham is a bloody tough place to come and win and our record vs Ireland is pretty impressive. France for all their excitement have glaring weaknesses in defence that a good week of planning and prep could unthread. They've shown a lack of bottle before and the pressure of (likely) bringing a GS back to Paris will be at fever pitch. We'll go as underdogs, don't get me wrong, but I don't share in a lot of the defeatism I see.

Back 3 offers zero pace, we need that to offer more threat. Radwan really needs to be given opportunities, Malins i can understand, he is a very very smart player and can create and cover miltiple positions better than Daly can, but Nowell, i just dont see it.

Agree with the rest, midfield is a shambles.

[Hal Jordan]

Nowell should be done. On song, he had a surprising turn of pace, was a hard carrier and defender and was elusive close to the try line, he acted as the foil to a speedy winger (Watson or May) but he is shot now, he doesn't seem to offer anything.

Completely agree about the lack of power in midfield. If you base your plans around a power back who can't keep fit, you have to have a reliable stand in and Slade isn't it. Farrell offered more physicality at 12 than Slade.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The glaring thing that's driving me nuts about our current side is the complete lack of punch in mid-field. Albeit you have to assume he was relying on Tuilagi to do this against Wales, it's bloody hard to score tries if your midfield offers nothing going forward. Otherwise? Pack looks good and put in a very good shift against Wales

I certainly get the midfield concerns, though some allowance that it does keep changing and partnerships are such a big thing.

I don't quite get the pack is going well as a piece of thinking, we're losing lineouts, getting pinged at the scrum, giving up too easy penalties, not supporting well enough when it comes to ball presentation, clearing and so on, and not enough of them are carrying well enough. Again though the partnerships do need a little time to build

[Kawazaki]

I think we need to be less churlish about this - he's won three six nations including a Grand Slam - the Grand Slam was our first for 13 years and we'd won the Championship once in between times. We reached a World Cup final playing superb rugby, we've lost at home twice, swept Australia down under etc. He's been a very successful coach. Whether he can continue to be is another question.

He does seem to have both delayed this team selection and to be not quite sure what he wants from it. If this is the new us, looking to work up the middle and exploit transition he needs to stick with it, he can add to it, but he's gone a bit Martin Johnson switching plans rather quickly and the team needs some time to gain experience and settle with the tactics.

We don't know of course how hard the team are being worked, fading in the 2nd half could suggest we've some big problems or that the focus is rather on the WC

No doubt there's a focus on the WC and that's fine. Teams have to transition some time. Go back a couple of years and Ireland and France, two of the best teams in the world right now, were pretty average.

The glaring thing that's driving me nuts about our current side is the complete lack of punch in mid-field. Albeit you have to assume he was relying on Tuilagi to do this against Wales, it's bloody hard to score tries if your midfield offers nothing going forward. Otherwise? Pack looks good and put in a very good shift against Wales, Randall will settle in, Smith we know about and back three look decent. I'd put more money on it coming together than it not. There aren't many key players you'd say are unlikely to make the WC, Smith and Randall will likely have 20-30 caps each by the time we get to France and please god we'll have worked out what we're doing in the centres.

Also we can still win this 6N! Twickenham is a bloody tough place to come and win and our record vs Ireland is pretty impressive. France for all their excitement have glaring weaknesses in defence that a good week of planning and prep could unthread. They've shown a lack of bottle before and the pressure of (likely) bringing a GS back to Paris will be at fever pitch. We'll go as underdogs, don't get me wrong, but I don't share in a lot of the defeatism I see.

I'll offer you 3-1 that England finish with just two wins.

[Paddington Bear]

He does seem to have both delayed this team selection and to be not quite sure what he wants from it. If this is the new us, looking to work up the middle and exploit transition he needs to stick with it, he can add to it, but he's gone a bit Martin Johnson switching plans rather quickly and the team needs some time to gain experience and settle with the tactics.

We don't know of course how hard the team are being worked, fading in the 2nd half could suggest we've some big problems or that the focus is rather on the WC

No doubt there's a focus on the WC and that's fine. Teams have to transition some time. Go back a couple of years and Ireland and France, two of the best teams in the world right now, were pretty average.

The glaring thing that's driving me nuts about our current side is the complete lack of punch in mid-field. Albeit you have to assume he was relying on Tuilagi to do this against Wales, it's bloody hard to score tries if your midfield offers nothing going forward. Otherwise? Pack looks good and put in a very good shift against Wales, Randall will settle in, Smith we know about and back three look decent. I'd put more money on it coming together than it not. There aren't many key players you'd say are unlikely to make the WC, Smith and Randall will likely have 20-30 caps each by the time we get to France and please god we'll have worked out what we're doing in the centres.

Also we can still win this 6N! Twickenham is a bloody tough place to come and win and our record vs Ireland is pretty impressive. France for all their excitement have glaring weaknesses in defence that a good week of planning and prep could unthread. They've shown a lack of bottle before and the pressure of (likely) bringing a GS back to Paris will be at fever pitch. We'll go as underdogs, don't get me wrong, but I don't share in a lot of the defeatism I see.

Back 3 offers zero pace, we need that to offer more threat. Radwan really needs to be given opportunities, Malins i can understand, he is a very very smart player and can create and cover miltiple positions better than Daly can, but Nowell, i just dont see it.

Agree with the rest, midfield is a shambles.

Malins is playing well. Steward was excellent in the Autumn and is doing fine now. Nowell meh but there are other options being used as well.

I'll offer you 3-1 that England finish with just two wins.

Most likely outcome? Maybe, but I think it's silly to pre-judge. Neither are foregone conclusions by any means.

[fishfoodie]

Aki hasn't been released back to Connacht for this weekends games.

Make of that what you will.

[Kawazaki]

Most likely outcome? Maybe, but I think it's silly to pre-judge. Neither are foregone conclusions by any means.

Pre-judging and post-judging is what this place is all about!

[Paddington Bear]

Most likely outcome? Maybe, but I think it's silly to pre-judge. Neither are foregone conclusions by any means.

Pre-judging and post-judging is what this place is all about!

Good point well made

[Happyhooker]

Most likely outcome? Maybe, but I think it's silly to pre-judge. Neither are foregone conclusions by any means.

Pre-judging and post-judging is what this place is all about!

Good point well made

But that isn't

[Torquemada 1420]

How is Ford out of the squad? Saw that and assumed Farrell had made some miraculous recovery. Unless I've misread it, no recognised FH after Smith?

[Kawazaki]

How is Ford out of the squad? Saw that and assumed Farrell had made some miraculous recovery. Unless I've misread it, no recognised FH after Smith?

He's brought Furbank back in again to cover 15 and 10.

[Torquemada 1420]

How is Ford out of the squad? Saw that and assumed Farrell had made some miraculous recovery. Unless I've misread it, no recognised FH after Smith?

He's brought Furbank back in again to cover 15 and 10.

Seriously?

[ASMO]

How is Ford out of the squad? Saw that and assumed Farrell had made some miraculous recovery. Unless I've misread it, no recognised FH after Smith?

He's brought Furbank back in again to cover 15 and 10.

Seriously?

I would read nothing into that, Ford and Marler asked to go back to their respective clubs to play this weekend, they will be back in the squad on Sunday.

[sockwithaticket]

How is Ford out of the squad? Saw that and assumed Farrell had made some miraculous recovery. Unless I've misread it, no recognised FH after Smith?

The fallow week squads have held onto some names that don't make the matchday 23 and released some who do. I wouldn't read anything into it. Ford's barely had any minutes this tournament, so getting some game time with Tigers makes sense.

[Kawazaki]

Stuart Barnes really gets stuck into Jones this week. He reckons if he loses both matches then the RFU should sack him asap and install either Borthwick or Robertson as head coach.

The first Test, Brisbane, England against Australia, 2016. The match is only 29 minutes old when Eddie Jones does what just about no coach in the world would ever dream of doing. He substitutes a player before the match slips away. In the process, he tacitly admits his selection error.
Luther Burrell was the unlucky one; no, not unlucky, the wrong selection. Owen Farrell moved to inside centre and George Ford restored a midfield balance. England went on to win the Test. They proceeded to win the series 3-0, a whitewash in Australia.
But not before another decisive change of plan early in the third Test. This time it was the Northampton Saints forward Teimana Harrison. He made it to the 31st minute. His parents had flown over from New Zealand to see their boy ignominiously substituted. It was tough luck on Harrison’s part. Jones didn’t see the decision as any big deal. His job, he explained, “was to make the national team win.”
Sometimes, when England lose, we are reminded that his job, in fact, is to win the World Cup. This England side are apparently making incremental little steps towards France 2023 — so small that most of us mere mortals cannot see them. So we have to take progress and the likelihood of peaking for Paris on the say-so of Jones.
Had the 2016 Jones adopted such an approach on that historic English series win in Australia, the outcome might have been very different. But England were blessed with a man who made mistakes (like the rest of us) but was unafraid to address those problems quickly.
There is a world of difference between removing players and head coaches from the line of fire, but the principle overriding all others is that clarity of mind and courage of character is required to succeed in sport. Dithering gets you nowhere.
Recent performances have not suggested improvement, even the well-disguised incremental ones. “Ya either got faith or ya got unbelief and there ain’t no neutral ground,” sang Bob Dylan in his religious spell.

It’s not a healthy position. Right now the RFU management are praying — praying that England at the very least beat Ireland at home before facing France in Paris in their final game of the Six Nations. Two much improved performances and one win would do for me. Two defeats and the unbelievers will be screaming from the back pages of the newspapers. The internet will be on fire.

There are two lines of defence for non-change. Firstly, there is no time for a new coach to establish himself and his rugby philosophies. However, Rassie Erasmus took over the Springboks in 2018 and won the World Cup the next year. He had one full Rugby Championship (the Six Nations equivalent for New Zealand, South Africa, Australia and Argentina) but was able to experiment with some progressive stuff before stripping South Africa all the way back to basics, which none do better. It wouldn’t be easy for a new face but the task is not impossible.
Secondly, who could possibly fit the bill? Before answering that question — or at least pondering the sort of coach required — it is worth remembering the need for urgency as shown so brilliantly by Jones back in 2016. The RFU makes the transition less likely every day in which it does nothing but pray.

Jones has promised to deliver his smooth transition of coaching, even as the revolving door marked “coach” spins dizzily, season after season. If the facts don’t fit, faith will do. Jones has enough on his plate in convincing the world that England are serious contenders. Some giant strides in the next two games would end the debate but what if . . .

Had Jones been chief executive of the RFU, he would quite possibly have dismissed Jones the head coach by now. The opportunity has been spurned. There are, of course, the finances as well. England apparently cannot afford to dismiss him. This is nonsense. Predominantly, pride prevents the RFU from admitting to any mistake.
The obvious long-term head coach is the former England No 2 Steve Borthwick. I’ll admit to being a convert. He has rebuilt Leicester Tigers in his two years at the club and is the ideal man for a number of reasons. He knows the players, he understands the English rugby psyche and is hugely respected within the English game.

He picked up the carcass of a great club and has restored them to the top table. Like Erasmus with South Africa, he is anything but complex. There is no guarantee of anything too pretty but there is the requisite clarity in how he selects and builds a team. Operating between the start of this summer’s Australian tour and the World Cup, he has done enough in the East Midlands to suggest that he could maximise the England challenge in 2023 while ensuring a steady development in the years after.

Leicester would be loathe to lose their man and there is no reason for clubs to be expected to supply their country. It is highly unlikely that he would be available by the end of the season but it makes sense to attempt some early form of negotiations. At some time they will come calling.

The alternative take is the gamble on total transformation. Scott Robertson is the most successful and best young coach in the world. He has achieved great things with the Crusaders, and a spell in the northern hemisphere is always good for aspiring All Blacks coaches, not to mention the bank balance.
The Super Rugby season has started and time is running out. Autumn would be the earliest possible arrival time. England would approach the 2023 Six Nations and World Cup in a state of flux. Perhaps be creative in administering the shot of adrenaline needed. Warren Gatland, despite his awful last British & Irish Lions tour, knows how to prepare teams without an excess of time.
The head coach’s job is, as Jones said, “to make the team win”. If he cannot achieve this and restore rational hope instead of blind faith, someone else should be offered the post for either the short or long term.
Dithering gets you nowhere.

[JM2K6]

Somewhat marred by his handwaving away of financial reality

[Brazil]

Somewhat marred by his handwaving away of financial reality

I'm not convinced by the "RFU is bankrupt" narrative. The stories around the East Stand were essentially treating a mortgage like borrowing from a loan shark. Obviously the impact of COVID was significant, but even then I'm pretty sure that if they needed to ditch Jones they'd be able to.

[Crash669]

I'll be interested to hear when the Jones era is over, just how much of his early success was down to Borthwick being his number 2. Given their trajectories in the last 2 years could it be that borthwick was actually coaching the team initially when we had the great run, and was pushed out as Jones wanted more control?

[sockwithaticket]

I'll be interested to hear when the Jones era is over, just how much of his early success was down to Borthwick being his number 2. Given their trajectories in the last 2 years could it be that borthwick was actually coaching the team initially when we had the great run, and was pushed out as Jones wanted more control?

That period was also marked by the team largely being comprised of Lancaster's squad who'd all been together for a while and knew each other very well, it led to a level of cohesion that's since broken down. I also think many of them were very driven by the pain of 2015. There aren't that many survivors from that period now and for all that we bemoan Eddie sticking with his favourites and not cultivating depth in certain positions, there's also been a fair amount of churn and change in others. Some of it enforced, some of it voluntary.

[Kawazaki]

Somewhat marred by his handwaving away of financial reality

I'm not convinced by the "RFU is bankrupt" narrative. The stories around the East Stand were essentially treating a mortgage like borrowing from a loan shark. Obviously the impact of COVID was significant, but even then I'm pretty sure that if they needed to ditch Jones they'd be able to.

Yep, Covid cost the RFU £140m by estimates I've read so bunging the Aussie grifter a £m to fuck off is chicken feed.

[Paddington Bear]

I'll be interested to hear when the Jones era is over, just how much of his early success was down to Borthwick being his number 2. Given their trajectories in the last 2 years could it be that borthwick was actually coaching the team initially when we had the great run, and was pushed out as Jones wanted more control?

I think it's possible to look too much to conspiracy. Borthwick undoubtedly ran the forwards excellently, but Jones was like a shot of lightning to a team that had just been humiliated. This sort of talk reminds me of the bored FACT that a clueless Faz snr was responsible for the 2015 meltdown.

Said before but I think Jones is mentally scarred by the World Cup final and clearly hasn't been himself since. We'll find out once he's gone and people like Faz/Ford etc have retired exactly what happened there.

Borthwick is clearly the next cab off the rank - I'd want an English coach and he is by far the best option as a coach proving his craft, who has done it at international level in support, has captained England (yes, yes I know) and been a very successful club player who knows the circuit.

I have a huge amount of time for Eddie - more than most on here - and have done since his short spell at Sarries. I tend to agree with Barnes' analysis. Performance critical if/when we lose one or both of the next two. There's no shame in losing to either this Ireland or France, but the manner is critical with a WC looming.

[JM2K6]

Somewhat marred by his handwaving away of financial reality

I'm not convinced by the "RFU is bankrupt" narrative. The stories around the East Stand were essentially treating a mortgage like borrowing from a loan shark. Obviously the impact of COVID was significant, but even then I'm pretty sure that if they needed to ditch Jones they'd be able to.

Yep, Covid cost the RFU £140m by estimates I've read so bunging the Aussie grifter a £m to fuck off is chicken feed.

Fairly sure paying him off would cost more than that and Covid costing the RFU £140m is an argument that they're in the hole, not that they've got cash to spend

[Kawazaki]

I'm not convinced by the "RFU is bankrupt" narrative. The stories around the East Stand were essentially treating a mortgage like borrowing from a loan shark. Obviously the impact of COVID was significant, but even then I'm pretty sure that if they needed to ditch Jones they'd be able to.

Yep, Covid cost the RFU £140m by estimates I've read so bunging the Aussie grifter a £m to fuck off is chicken feed.

Fairly sure paying him off would cost more than that and Covid costing the RFU £140m is an argument that they're in the hole, not that they've got cash to spend

Keeping him might cost a shit load more.

[tc27]

Mike Brown looking for a new club again..Newcastle didn't renew.