The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Biffer]

Or maybe not... website saying online tickets have sold out....

That's going to be because the event has started (gates opened at 1). Give the ticket office a call to check - I'm sure you'll still be ok.

Yes, think I'll just show up and plead ignorance

If you see a fat bloke in a red jacket and a London Scottish shirt it's proba ly me

[robmatic]

Completely agree. Muncaster looks like a great prospect so allows him more game time.

Yes on comfort zone and yes on Muncaster.

The two team thing strikes again, we just don't have the game time available for everyone coming through.

There is no quick fix for that, so moves like this are best for all concerned.

That's partly on Bradbury. If he had shown this form last year, it might have been Mata that was moved on rather than given a new deal.

Bradbury was pretty useful for us last year, but it was always either as a 6 or filling in at lock.

Good move for both parties anyway, form or not, it's a crowded back row at Edinburgh without any obviously weak players and a conveyor belt of seemingly decent young talent coming through.

[Slick]

That's going to be because the event has started (gates opened at 1). Give the ticket office a call to check - I'm sure you'll still be ok.

Yes, think I'll just show up and plead ignorance

If you see a fat bloke in a red jacket and a London Scottish shirt it's proba ly me

That's exactly how I was dressed London Scottish t-shirt under the jumper though.

Anyway, made it for the Watsons v Dollar game, very impressed. Never been for this before, what a cracking event.

[KingBlairhorn]

Haoas got a longer ban he just didn't question the red card so got a reduction in weeks. Duhan questioned the red card so there had to be a full disciplinary hearing and therefore no reduction. Would've been what a one week reduction I guess.

I think it's odd rugby citings so closely follow the English judiciary systems but they do and the SRU know it. I guess it's worth the risk.

The result was the same though, regardless of the means to get there, that was my point. Deliberately punching a player in the face should never end with the same ban as a clumsy incident while handing off a player regardless of the route to sanction at least in my view - one is a pre-meditated act and the other an accident. Perhaps that is another argument entirely though. The fact that questioning the sanction leads to essentially a longer ban needs looked at too tbh, given how subjective both the citing and then the adjudication of these incidents are (i.e. Nigel Owens thought this one was only a yellow). I understand the imperative to reduce wasted time, but it doesn't sit well with incidents like this which as I say are hugely subjective.

As an aside, I'm surprised the clubs aren't up in arms about it yet - Duhan will miss an additional club game as a result of the SRU taking a punt. There was nothing to lose for the SRU as 3 games is the same as 2 for them, but obviously his club now cops the extra 1 game ban. Presumably its Duhan himself that makes the decision, but that will be heavily influenced by the SRU.

Yes I agree that the reductions for pleasing guilty are kind of stupid (Haouas got six weeks). And it's all subjective (that's refereeing in all teams sports for you).

But it's an even more conveluted decision making process if they says "well two years ago Haouas got six weeks reduced to three for pleasing guilty but a punch is worse than a head off so it's actually two week for Duhan".

I don’t think that was quite what I was suggesting! The obvious solution would be that acts of violence are not eligible for tariff reduction. Of course that leads to ambiguity in what a ‘violent act’ is, but situations like punching someone in the face wouldn’t be too difficult to categorise.

I think everyone generally agrees it’s a difficult task to be consistent with punishments though. No matter what laws/interpretations are in place, there will always be outlier situations.

[Tichtheid]

van der Merwe misses two six nations games plus a club game for an accidental fleshy underside of the forearm coming into contact with a tackler's face.

iirc Haouas didn't miss any games after punching Jamie Ritchie in the face because rugby was postponed after that match due to covid.

Shame on world rugby's disciplinary panel for failing to predict covid's affect on society?

Fwiw Russell got a three week ban for elbowing Dulin in the face. If we want to talk about consistency... Seems pretty consistent.

It would have been so easy to go for the cheap jibe, but glad to see you kept to the high ground right enough.

There is a wider point about bans etc, if you want to talk about it.

There is no way that either Finn's attempt at a fend or Duhan's is the same as a deliberate, targeted, full on punch in the puss.
Is that in any way a controversial statement?

When a ban is handed down there have been moves to cheat the system, with clubs/unions counting games that their players would never have played in as part of the ban.
In the Haouas case, Covid was obviously a once-in-a-lifetime situation (hopefully), so I'm not as pissed off about him not serving the ban he was handed down as I might be, but the point stands and so does the point that Finn and Duhan's rather benign actions resulting in the same ban as for a violent act.

it's a ridiculous state of affairs

[Biffer]

Yes, think I'll just show up and plead ignorance

If you see a fat bloke in a red jacket and a London Scottish shirt it's proba ly me

That's exactly how I was dressed London Scottish t-shirt under the jumper though.

Anyway, made it for the Watsons v Dollar game, very impressed. Never been for this before, what a cracking event.

Stalker

Thought the Stew Mel v Merchiston final was a really good game.

[weegie01]

If you see a fat bloke in a red jacket and a London Scottish shirt it's proba ly me

That's exactly how I was dressed London Scottish t-shirt under the jumper though.

Anyway, made it for the Watsons v Dollar game, very impressed. Never been for this before, what a cracking event.

Stalker

Thought the Stew Mel v Merchiston final was a really good game.

When he was coaching at Watson's (with Steve Lawrie as his boss) my younger son coached both teams when they were younger. Even then they reckoned the current U16 team was one of the best generations they have had.

[Biffer]

That's exactly how I was dressed London Scottish t-shirt under the jumper though.

Anyway, made it for the Watsons v Dollar game, very impressed. Never been for this before, what a cracking event.

Stalker

Thought the Stew Mel v Merchiston final was a really good game.

When he was coaching at Watson's (with Steve Lawrie as his boss) my younger son coached both teams when they were younger. Even then they reckoned the current U16 team was one of the best generations they have had.

Current Merchiston, Watson, Stew Mel or Scotland?

[weegie01]

Stalker

Thought the Stew Mel v Merchiston final was a really good game.

When he was coaching at Watson's (with Steve Lawrie as his boss) my younger son coached both teams when they were younger. Even then they reckoned the current U16 team was one of the best generations they have had.

Current Merchiston, Watson, Stew Mel or Scotland?

For the avoidance of doubt, he coached both the current Watson's U18 and U16 teams.

[Slick]

When he was coaching at Watson's (with Steve Lawrie as his boss) my younger son coached both teams when they were younger. Even then they reckoned the current U16 team was one of the best generations they have had.

Current Merchiston, Watson, Stew Mel or Scotland?

For the avoidance of doubt, he coached both the current Watson's U18 and U16 teams.

Heard an interesting aside yesterday that one of the better Watsons lads, who's grandfather is quite wealthy..., has been having private strength and conditioning sessions with the SRU team and dramatically grown over the last year

[weegie01]

Heard an interesting aside yesterday that one of the better Watsons lads, who's grandfather is quite wealthy..., has been having private strength and conditioning sessions with the SRU team and dramatically grown over the last year

I was not going to mention this, but since you bring it up, I remember my son talking about this person (I know his name but will not put it on here) years ago as being one of the best players he had ever seen. Even as a youngster he was clearly going to make it. He has spent very little time with Watson's this season as the plan is he goes full pro next season when he leaves school, so is working with the SRU and doing the physical work now to prepare him.

It is the SRU and not grandad driving this.

[Jock42]

Heard an interesting aside yesterday that one of the better Watsons lads, who's grandfather is quite wealthy..., has been having private strength and conditioning sessions with the SRU team and dramatically grown over the last year

I was not going to mention this, but since you bring it up, I remember my son talking about this person (I know his name but will not put it on here) years ago as being one of the best players he had ever seen. Even as a youngster he was clearly going to make it. He has spent very little time with Watson's this season as the plan is he goes full pro next season when he leaves school, so is working with the SRU and doing the physical work now to prepare him.

It is the SRU and not grandad driving this.

Doesn't happen to be on the bench tomorrow night and made his Edinburgh debut last weekend did he?

[Slick]

Heard an interesting aside yesterday that one of the better Watsons lads, who's grandfather is quite wealthy..., has been having private strength and conditioning sessions with the SRU team and dramatically grown over the last year

I was not going to mention this, but since you bring it up, I remember my son talking about this person (I know his name but will not put it on here) years ago as being one of the best players he had ever seen. Even as a youngster he was clearly going to make it. He has spent very little time with Watson's this season as the plan is he goes full pro next season when he leaves school, so is working with the SRU and doing the physical work now to prepare him.

It is the SRU and not grandad driving this.

That's actually a relief to hear as I didn't like the sound of the alternative.

It may also explain why he seemed to be not getting too involved and drifting away from a lot of the action, obviously under orders - maybe didn't want him hurting anyone!

[weegie01]

Heard an interesting aside yesterday that one of the better Watsons lads, who's grandfather is quite wealthy..., has been having private strength and conditioning sessions with the SRU team and dramatically grown over the last year

I was not going to mention this, but since you bring it up, I remember my son talking about this person (I know his name but will not put it on here) years ago as being one of the best players he had ever seen. Even as a youngster he was clearly going to make it. He has spent very little time with Watson's this season as the plan is he goes full pro next season when he leaves school, so is working with the SRU and doing the physical work now to prepare him.

It is the SRU and not grandad driving this.

Doesn't happen to be on the bench tomorrow night and made his Edinburgh debut last weekend did he?

No, he is a back.

[Slick]

Heard an interesting aside yesterday that one of the better Watsons lads, who's grandfather is quite wealthy..., has been having private strength and conditioning sessions with the SRU team and dramatically grown over the last year

I was not going to mention this, but since you bring it up, I remember my son talking about this person (I know his name but will not put it on here) years ago as being one of the best players he had ever seen. Even as a youngster he was clearly going to make it. He has spent very little time with Watson's this season as the plan is he goes full pro next season when he leaves school, so is working with the SRU and doing the physical work now to prepare him.

It is the SRU and not grandad driving this.

Doesn't happen to be on the bench tomorrow night and made his Edinburgh debut last weekend did he?

He'll only be 15/16 years old

[Slick]

I was not going to mention this, but since you bring it up, I remember my son talking about this person (I know his name but will not put it on here) years ago as being one of the best players he had ever seen. Even as a youngster he was clearly going to make it. He has spent very little time with Watson's this season as the plan is he goes full pro next season when he leaves school, so is working with the SRU and doing the physical work now to prepare him.

It is the SRU and not grandad driving this.

Doesn't happen to be on the bench tomorrow night and made his Edinburgh debut last weekend did he?

No, he is a back.

Oh, maybe we are talking about different things here

[weegie01]

Doesn't happen to be on the bench tomorrow night and made his Edinburgh debut last weekend did he?

No, he is a back.

Oh, maybe we are talking about different things here

Sounds like it.

[C T]

That's exactly how I was dressed London Scottish t-shirt under the jumper though.

Anyway, made it for the Watsons v Dollar game, very impressed. Never been for this before, what a cracking event.

Stalker

Thought the Stew Mel v Merchiston final was a really good game.

When he was coaching at Watson's (with Steve Lawrie as his boss) my younger son coached both teams when they were younger. Even then they reckoned the current U16 team was one of the best generations they have had.

Very interesting to hear this sort of stuff.

I think I'm as guilty as anyone of thinking that this current crop of players with your Hoggy, Finn, Watson, etc. is our chance of competing for titles and after that we're back to fighting it out with Italy for the spoon.

There are some really good younger players with your Dobbie, Thompson, Darge, Muncaster, plenty of the current crop who are not old timers. The younger guys coming through who I have no knowledge about.

I don't think Hoggy/Finn etc. are retiring after this world cup although concede they may not be at the next one.

Perhaps not all doom and gloom. I was at Cardiff when we lost a few weeks back, maybe that was adding to my doom and gloom feeling.

[KingBlairhorn]

Stalker

Thought the Stew Mel v Merchiston final was a really good game.

When he was coaching at Watson's (with Steve Lawrie as his boss) my younger son coached both teams when they were younger. Even then they reckoned the current U16 team was one of the best generations they have had.

Very interesting to hear this sort of stuff.

I think I'm as guilty as anyone of thinking that this current crop of players with your Hoggy, Finn, Watson, etc. is our chance of competing for titles and after that we're back to fighting it out with Italy for the spoon.

There are some really good younger players with your Dobbie, Thompson, Darge, Muncaster, plenty of the current crop who are not old timers. The younger guys coming through who I have no knowledge about.

I don't think Hoggy/Finn etc. are retiring after this world cup although concede they may not be at the next one.

Perhaps not all doom and gloom. I was at Cardiff when we lost a few weeks back, maybe that was adding to my doom and gloom feeling.

I think one of the reasons it feels that way is that our youth teams are rarely very successful and also to some extent that we appear to import more than our fair share of players. The reality though is that we actually do very well out of our own development system, typically producing 8-10 professional level players every year. We are also getting better at those players making a professional impact younger - it used to be that our best young players would break through at 21/22, now some are making their mark before they have even turned 20. If a world cup cycle is 4 years, we are generally producing a whole squad of players each cycle. There are certain positions we are exceptionally poor at developing (tighthead prop), but I have faith we will improve there. Stand off was a huge problem for us for years but now we seem to be producing pro level players. Equally number 8 has been a well known problem for some time, but there seems light at the end of that tunnel.

It's actually quite interesting to look back at some of our previous U20 years to get a flavour of the number we have brought through each year:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_ ... ous_squads

[KingBlairhorn]

My own opinion is the 2021 group will yield at least the following as professionals:

Patrick Harrison
Cole Lamberton
Alex Samuel
Max Williamson
Rhys Tait
Ollie Leatherbarrow
Ben Muncaster
Christian Townsend
Ollie Melville
Harry Paterson

[Slick]

Vellacot and Hastings!

[Jock42]

[Tichtheid]

A the risk of going full Eeyore, only two line out jumpers and a guy with dodgy darts throwing in.

What could possibly go wrong?

I'm a bit disappointed for Kinghorn, he played a blinder for Edinburgh and gets dropped as a result.
Same for Mark Bennett, he played well against France.

[Jock42]

Got to feel for Bennett. I can understand Harris starting (I'd have started Bennett) but nothing Tuipulotu has done has shown me he's more deserving of the bench spot. Kinghorn hard done by after Friday too but no issue with Hastings being there.

Chuffed for Vellacott.

[Slick]

Credit where credit is due, Toonie has finally listened to me about Johnson.

Actually a bit pissed off that we have ruined 2 games fucking about at 12, but hey ho.

Weird that Tuipulotu is on the bench instead of Kinghorn or Bennet. Doesn’t make much sense to me

[clydecloggie]

No Kinghorn at all, which is slightly confusing.

Steyn for IrnDu makes sense. Other than that pretty much the top team. Hopefully a top performance as well or we're back to the grim days.

[Jock42]

A the risk of going full Eeyore, only two line out jumpers and a guy with dodgy darts throwing in.

What could possibly go wrong?

I'm a bit disappointed for Kinghorn, he played a blinder for Edinburgh and gets dropped as a result.
Same for Mark Bennett, he played well against France.

In fairness to Turner he's improved that recently.

He'll now lose 6 lineouts eh?

[Slick]

Got to feel for Bennett. I can understand Harris starting (I'd have started Bennett) but nothing Tuipulotu has done has shown me he's more deserving of the bench spot. Kinghorn hard done by after Friday too but no issue with Hastings being there.

Chuffed for Vellacott.

Yeah, all this.

Not convinced Vellacot is going to become a great player for us but definitely deserves a go

[Jock42]

Got to feel for Bennett. I can understand Harris starting (I'd have started Bennett) but nothing Tuipulotu has done has shown me he's more deserving of the bench spot. Kinghorn hard done by after Friday too but no issue with Hastings being there.

Chuffed for Vellacott.

Yeah, all this.

Not convinced Vellacot is going to become a great player for us but definitely deserves a go

I agree. That said though, the gen about him before his move was he wasn't worth it. Whilst he's not the complete player he's been very good. Perhaps the step up and involvement will continue his improvement.

[Tichtheid]

I hope Edinburgh get Kinghorn and Bennett next Friday for the game against Glasgow

[I like neeps]

As I suspected. Townsend doesn't view Kinghorn as a credible back three option anymore and that drove what has been a positive move to 10.

[Big D]

As I suspected. Townsend doesn't view Kinghorn as a credible back three option anymore and that drove what has been a positive move to 10.

Looks that way but I think time will tell on that as Townsend has often tried something different v Italy and Steyn probably merits a look.

Tuipolotu on the bench makes no sense at all and it is a shame for Bennett.

Also wonder if Hastings is there in part to baby sit Vellacott who has yet to show much if any game control for Edinburgh.

[Slick]

As I suspected. Townsend doesn't view Kinghorn as a credible back three option anymore and that drove what has been a positive move to 10.

Then why drop him completely against Italy on the back of easily his best game at the weekend. It’s all a bit confused

[Tichtheid]

We know that Kinghorn is very quick, one of if not the quickest in the squad, we also know about his attacking prowess. Townsend and Blair have both said they consider Kinghorn good defensively - Townsend in October, "We know he’s one of our best defenders on the wing given his pace, the size he is and his reads."

There is something else going on, whether it's rotation, rest, wanting to have a look at another player in this match, but I don't think Kinghorn is out of the back three picture - he has getting on for 100 Edinburgh appearances at fullback and over 20 caps for Scotland in the back three. You don't chuck that away, professionals wouldn't anyway.

[I like neeps]

As I suspected. Townsend doesn't view Kinghorn as a credible back three option anymore and that drove what has been a positive move to 10.

Then why drop him completely against Italy on the back of easily his best game at the weekend. It’s all a bit confused

Because he doesn't trust him as a back 3 and doesn't trust him as a 10 after France would be my guess.

[I like neeps]

We know that Kinghorn is very quick, one of if not the quickest in the squad, we also know about his attacking prowess. Townsend and Blair have both said they consider Kinghorn good defensively - Townsend in October, "We know he’s one of our best defenders on the wing given his pace, the size he is and his reads."

There is something else going on, whether it's rotation, rest, wanting to have a look at another player in this match, but I don't think Kinghorn is out of the back three picture - he has getting on for 100 Edinburgh appearances at fullback and over 20 caps for Scotland in the back three. You don't chuck that away, professionals wouldn't anyway.

Coaches are never honest about players in the press. Ever.

We know what they think of Kinghorn as a back three option right now. Less than they think of Kyle Steyn.

[Slick]

As I suspected. Townsend doesn't view Kinghorn as a credible back three option anymore and that drove what has been a positive move to 10.

Then why drop him completely against Italy on the back of easily his best game at the weekend. It’s all a bit confused

Because he doesn't trust him as a back 3 and doesn't trust him as a 10 after France would be my guess.

Poor lad.

Needs to go back to 15 imo

[Tichtheid]

From The Offside Line


"Adam Hastings is added to the bench in place of the unavailable Blair Kinghorn"


I did think it odd that they had added two fly halves to the squad this week, perhaps Finn was nursing a knock too?

He didn't play for Racing last week

[KingBlairhorn]

From The Offside Line


"Adam Hastings is added to the bench in place of the unavailable Blair Kinghorn"


I did think it odd that they had added two fly halves to the squad this week, perhaps Finn was nursing a knock too?

He didn't play for Racing last week

Yeh, seen it elsewhere on twitter from Journos that Kinghorn is unavailable (presumably through injury, but I suppose possibly through illness or something else).

[Yr Alban]

If he has an injury it makes more sense. I was just cursing about the fact that Kinghorn has gone from 2nd best stand off to out of the squad entirely.