The Official English Rugby Thread

[sockwithaticket]

Jack Willis called up to cover Tom Curry.

[Oxbow]

Jack Willis called up to cover Tom Curry.

Too soon? I thought he understandably looked a bit tentative yesterday.

[sockwithaticket]

Jack Willis called up to cover Tom Curry.

Too soon? I thought he understandably looked a bit tentative yesterday.

Yup. Only a few games back from a little over a year out, I'm not sure the national set up, let alone playing France, is really what he needs.

He did some really good work yesterday, had some great carries, but it was far from the game dominating form we've seen from him when he's fully firing.

[Glaston]

Jack Willis called up to cover Tom Curry.

Lets hope this weeks training is of the gentle kind.

But knowing Jones he will probably be overtraining the squad again .

[Raggs]

He made a turnover, and went for a few more, considering that Saints were trying desperately to not have any rucks, and the ones they had tended to be with go forward, there were never going to be a lot of chances. He made 16 tackles and 17 carries though I believe...

[JM2K6]

Yeah not quite peak Willis but still a good showing and his work rate is nuts for such a physical guy.

[sockwithaticket]

Cipriani interesting and frank on England's attack on the beeb pod today.

[Paddington Bear]

Cipriani interesting and frank on England's attack on the beeb pod today.

I'm not his biggest fan but I thought he came across well and had some good points. Have to say I agree with Warburton about England as well

[Slick]

Cipriani interesting and frank on England's attack on the beeb pod today.

I'm not his biggest fan but I thought he came across well and had some good points. Have to say I agree with Warburton about England as well

Yes, thought he was good on Rugby Special as well. I find it hard to believe some of these game analysts that make it incredibly complicated - I just don't think players can digest that much information in a fast game, but he simplified it really well.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Cipriani interesting and frank on England's attack on the beeb pod today.

Since he was a kid coming into the seniors he's rarely deviated. He wants players on their feet offering options or understanding how they support those offering options. In this he's an excellent thinker on the game, he might even go on to be an exceptional coach. Whereas many of his coaches think he distracts from defence and one out plays that stabilise a team

The last 6N we worked on players being available in a way I've not seen us do before, and really in a way I've not seen anyone do before. I'm not sure if it was sustainable, even if our fitness levels were better, but whatever we've reset and gone a different way this season, it's almost working but we're not joining up enough good plays, we're picking the wrong shoulders to run at or taking contact when it's not the best choice, and when we do move the ball we're struggling to support. As so often the gap from where we are to ripping sides a new one is small, but that last bit of decision making and team accuracy is the hardest bit to gain

[Margin__Walker]

28 man squad to travel to Paris. Lynagh, Dolly, Northmore and Barbeary included. No Malins or Blamire

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... -test-talk

Forwards

Alfie Barbeary (Wasps, uncapped)

Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)

Nic Dolly (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)

Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 8 caps)

Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 35 caps)

Jamie George (Saracens, 65 caps)

Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)

Maro Itoje (Saracens, 55 caps)

Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, 6 caps)

Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 70 caps)

Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 92 caps)

Joe Marler (Harlequins, 78 caps)

Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 13 caps)

Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 51 caps)

Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)

Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 27 caps)

Backs

Elliot Daly (Saracens, 56 caps)

George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps)

George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)

Louis Lynagh (Harlequins, uncapped)

Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 11 caps)

Luke Northmore (Harlequins, uncapped)

Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 38 caps)

Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 5 caps)

Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 47 caps)

Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 9 caps)

Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 9 caps)

Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 116 caps)

[Hal Jordan]

Hooker is a merry-go-round at the moment. Basically whoever is fit out of LCD or George, plus whichever third banana Jones has settled on this week.

Fucking Daly over Malins.

[Margin__Walker]

Hooker is a merry-go-round at the moment. Basically whoever is fit out of LCD or George, plus whichever third banana Jones has settled on this week.

Fucking Daly over Malins.

Lynagh might slot straight in. Or Marchant again. But who knows with Eddie

[Glaston]

Tut tut,
Naughty Tigers




Saracens might be a bit miffed

[sockwithaticket]

Tut tut,
Naughty Tigers




Saracens might be a bit miffed

Because a club who didn't overspend to the extent they did got a lesser punishment?

[Slick]

Tut tut,
Naughty Tigers




Saracens might be a bit miffed

Could get quite juicy

[Raggs]

Tut tut,
Naughty Tigers




Saracens might be a bit miffed

Could get quite juicy

How? It's overrun. Every season less than £150k over. Dealt with in the overrun laws set out and agreed to by the clubs. It's a bit bigger than the others (can definitely be argued to perhaps be less of an accident than Quins/Wasps), but still within the "accepted" breach limits.

[sockwithaticket]

On the squad, I'm happy to get Willis back at Wasps. Will be annoyed if England hold onto Barbeary and don't use him again.

Underhill must have shown up well in training, because he's had less game time than Willis since his concussion break and wasn't exactly in eye-catching form before taking several weeks off. Not that his Bath form has often been an indicator of how he performs in a white jersey.

Would love an insight into the thinking that Blamire should suddenly make way for Dolly.

[Raggs]

On the squad, I'm happy to get Willis back at Wasps. Will be annoyed if England hold onto Barbeary and don't use him again.

Underhill must have shown up well in training, because he's had less game time than Willis since his concussion break and wasn't exactly in eye-catching form before taking several weeks off. Not that his Bath form has often been an indicator of how he performs in a white jersey.

Would love an insight into the thinking that Blamire should suddenly make way for Dolly.

There's always going to be travelling reserves in a team, it hopefully just means Alfie is really close.

[SaintK]

Tut tut,
Naughty Tigers




Saracens might be a bit miffed

Could get quite juicy

How? It's overrun. Every season less than £150k over. Dealt with in the overrun laws set out and agreed to by the clubs. It's a bit bigger than the others (can definitely be argued to perhaps be less of an accident than Quins/Wasps), but still within the "accepted" breach limits.

Substantially less than the Sarries overspends.
Very expensive errors though. The CEO and CFO were replaced last year if I remember corectly and there is a new senior management team in place.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

On the squad, I'm happy to get Willis back at Wasps. Will be annoyed if England hold onto Barbeary and don't use him again.

Underhill must have shown up well in training, because he's had less game time than Willis since his concussion break and wasn't exactly in eye-catching form before taking several weeks off. Not that his Bath form has often been an indicator of how he performs in a white jersey.

Would love an insight into the thinking that Blamire should suddenly make way for Dolly.

From watching the recent Quins v Newcastle game, the Newcastle hooker who should be pushing into the England squad is Mcguigan.

[Torquemada 1420]

Tut tut,
Naughty Tigers




Saracens might be a bit miffed

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/premiers ... tory.shtml

Not clear how this differs from Sarries. The numbers are all material even if not as large a total as Sarries so surely points deductions should come into it too?

[Raggs]

Tut tut,
Naughty Tigers




Saracens might be a bit miffed

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/premiers ... tory.shtml

Not clear how this differs from Sarries. The numbers are all material even if not as large a total as Sarries so surely points deductions should come into it too?

It differs because there are laws in place that deal with overruns upto £350k per season. With fixed punishments for infringements within those parameters. They have broken the cap, and are being dealt with exactly how the laws in place say they should be dealt with.

[Kawazaki]

Don't forget that one of the fines imposed on Saracens was due to the valuation on Itoje's image rights from PwC being deemed to be too high, by a factor of 100%. Subsequent commercial income that Itoje has earned has shown that rather than Nigel Wray paying too much, he actually got an absolute bargain.

[Torquemada 1420]

Tut tut,
Naughty Tigers




Saracens might be a bit miffed

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/premiers ... tory.shtml

Not clear how this differs from Sarries. The numbers are all material even if not as large a total as Sarries so surely points deductions should come into it too?

It differs because there are laws in place that deal with overruns upto £350k per season. With fixed punishments for infringements within those parameters. They have broken the cap, and are being dealt with exactly how the laws in place say they should be dealt with.

Link?

Cheers.


{EDIT} That seems like an open invite to breach the cap by £349,999 per season.
{EDIT 2} A point that is made on the Beeb:

Tigers, miraculously, appear to have regularly overspent just below the limit that could have led to a points deduction or worse. Had they been investigated under current rules, and not those in place at the time, they'd be in big trouble.

[SaintK]

On the squad, I'm happy to get Willis back at Wasps. Will be annoyed if England hold onto Barbeary and don't use him again.

Underhill must have shown up well in training, because he's had less game time than Willis since his concussion break and wasn't exactly in eye-catching form before taking several weeks off. Not that his Bath form has often been an indicator of how he performs in a white jersey.

Would love an insight into the thinking that Blamire should suddenly make way for Dolly.

From watching the recent Quins v Newcastle game, the Newcastle hooker who should be pushing into the England squad is Mcguigan.

Flats and Topsy had a discussion about that on the Premiership Review on Sunday. Without being disrespectful to Blamire, Flats stated that he couldn't understand how Blamire was currently the No2 hooker available to England when he wasnt even No 1 at Falcons.
With a bit more conditiong work he could be another L C-D. Perhaps Jones took an instant dislike to him on the one time he trained with England a few years back.

[ASMO]

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/premiers ... tory.shtml

Not clear how this differs from Sarries. The numbers are all material even if not as large a total as Sarries so surely points deductions should come into it too?

It differs because there are laws in place that deal with overruns upto £350k per season. With fixed punishments for infringements within those parameters. They have broken the cap, and are being dealt with exactly how the laws in place say they should be dealt with.

Link?

Cheers.


{EDIT} That seems like an open invite to breach the cap by £349,999 per season.

just over 300k fine heading their way

[SaintK]

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/premiers ... tory.shtml

Not clear how this differs from Sarries. The numbers are all material even if not as large a total as Sarries so surely points deductions should come into it too?

It differs because there are laws in place that deal with overruns upto £350k per season. With fixed punishments for infringements within those parameters. They have broken the cap, and are being dealt with exactly how the laws in place say they should be dealt with.

Link?

Cheers.


{EDIT} That seems like an open invite to breach the cap by £349,999 per season.

Can't find a link for the actual regulations but this is a breakdown

These third-party payments triggered a breach of the salary cap in each of the seasons between 2016-17 and 2019-20.

The club accepted the findings, and as such there will be no appeal.

Tigers were fined a sum based on the total 'overrun' they accrued across the four seasons of the breach, in which they paid 50p for every £1 of overspend up to a ceiling of £50,000, with the full payment required for the rest.

The club were fined £122,750 for 2016-17, £64,718.05 for 2017-18, £30,886.69 for 2018-19 and £73,586.32 for 2019-20.

There was also a further fine of £17,900 for failing to declare payments for the 2020-21 season, in which there no breach of the cap.

In total Leicester have been ordered to pay £309,841.06.

[Ovals]

Hooker is a merry-go-round at the moment. Basically whoever is fit out of LCD or George, plus whichever third banana Jones has settled on this week.

Fucking Daly over Malins.

Lynagh might slot straight in. Or Marchant again. But who knows with Eddie

Always hard to see any logic in what Eddie does but the inclusion of Furbank may mean that he'll go for a 6/2 bench with Furbank covering FB/Wing/FH. Leaving Daly as a starter, possibly on the wing - unless Lynagh jumps straight in, which ahs to be unlikely. Doesn't fill me with any enthusiasm whatsoever but at least that would see Barbeary getting a shot off the bench.

[sockwithaticket]

On the squad, I'm happy to get Willis back at Wasps. Will be annoyed if England hold onto Barbeary and don't use him again.

Underhill must have shown up well in training, because he's had less game time than Willis since his concussion break and wasn't exactly in eye-catching form before taking several weeks off. Not that his Bath form has often been an indicator of how he performs in a white jersey.

Would love an insight into the thinking that Blamire should suddenly make way for Dolly.

There's always going to be travelling reserves in a team, it hopefully just means Alfie is really close.

I know, it just feels like a waste for him not to be getting game time when in such a rich vein of form.

[Torquemada 1420]

Underhill must have shown up well in training, because he's had less game time than Willis since his concussion break and wasn't exactly in eye-catching form before taking several weeks off. Not that his Bath form has often been an indicator of how he performs in a white jersey.

That lad is a worrying candidate for long term brain damage. How many now? 4 in a few months?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Fucking Daly over Malins.

If he's looking at Daly as a left winger that's fine. He's a better winger than Malins, it gets Nowell back on the right wing, makes it harder to kick to England. Malins might still offer something at 15, or on the bench, but wing is thus far looking a bit of an issue for him, especially with other slow(er) players in the back three

[Rhubarb & Custard]

On the squad, I'm happy to get Willis back at Wasps. Will be annoyed if England hold onto Barbeary and don't use him again.

Underhill must have shown up well in training, because he's had less game time than Willis since his concussion break and wasn't exactly in eye-catching form before taking several weeks off. Not that his Bath form has often been an indicator of how he performs in a white jersey.

Would love an insight into the thinking that Blamire should suddenly make way for Dolly.

There's always going to be travelling reserves in a team, it hopefully just means Alfie is really close.

I know, it just feels like a waste for him not to be getting game time when in such a rich vein of form.

flip side to that is it's allowed some rest for a young player who it'd be easy to play for too many minutes

[Rhubarb & Custard]

On the squad, I'm happy to get Willis back at Wasps. Will be annoyed if England hold onto Barbeary and don't use him again.

Underhill must have shown up well in training, because he's had less game time than Willis since his concussion break and wasn't exactly in eye-catching form before taking several weeks off. Not that his Bath form has often been an indicator of how he performs in a white jersey.

Would love an insight into the thinking that Blamire should suddenly make way for Dolly.

From watching the recent Quins v Newcastle game, the Newcastle hooker who should be pushing into the England squad is Mcguigan.

Flats and Topsy had a discussion about that on the Premiership Review on Sunday. Without being disrespectful to Blamire, Flats stated that he couldn't understand how Blamire was currently the No2 hooker available to England when he wasnt even No 1 at Falcons.
With a bit more conditiong work he could be another L C-D. Perhaps Jones took an instant dislike to him on the one time he trained with England a few years back.

I really don't mind England taking on a punt on a player they perceive as having a much higher ceiling, especially when we're talking about the 3rd, possibly 4th choice in line

[Kawazaki]

The infuriating thing for me regards Malins is that he's a brilliant fullback/2nd receiver or standby flyhalf but he's being shoehorned onto the wing where he only gets to employ a fraction of his ability. Meanwhile, Furlong is the one regarded as the 15/10 option.

It's just more Eddiot selection madness.

[Oxbow]

Agree, I've not been happy with Eddie's selections, but by picking Furlong he's just gone too far.

[Ovals]

The infuriating thing for me regards Malins is that he's a brilliant fullback/2nd receiver or standby flyhalf but he's being shoehorned onto the wing where he only gets to employ a fraction of his ability. Meanwhile, Furlong is the one regarded as the 15/10 option.

It's just more Eddiot selection madness.

Yep - get a proper winger in, drop Daly entirely, and have Malins on the bench covering mulitple positions - just doesn't make any sense for him to go from starting to being left out entirely - albeit he did very little in the last game - zero metres with ball in hand !!

[geordie_6]

Radwan sacked off again...

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The infuriating thing for me regards Malins is that he's a brilliant fullback/2nd receiver or standby flyhalf but he's being shoehorned onto the wing where he only gets to employ a fraction of his ability. Meanwhile, Furlong is the one regarded as the 15/10 option.

It's just more Eddiot selection madness.

Yep - get a proper winger in, drop Daly entirely, and have Malins on the bench covering mulitple positions - just doesn't make any sense for him to go from starting to being left out entirely - albeit he did very little in the last game - zero metres with ball in hand !!

Daly isn't a proper winger?

I'm also not sure why someone would think leaving Malins out is 'madness' unless they want Steward booted. It's a fair point Malins could go back to 15, but it's hardly nuts to keep Steward at 15, and as the poster thinks Malins on the wing is a waste to be that upset he's not featured on the wing or bench is a little weird, if you're going to be left that irate by something one in part agrees with..., well it's odd

[sockwithaticket]

Agree, I've not been happy with Eddie's selections, but by picking Furlong he's just gone too far.

I appreciated this comment even if no one else does.