The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Big D]

The stats up there from optojohnny are a little surprising but I think a lot of gloss was taken off the win by conceding three tries in that left hand corner.

Three of our tries came from very good breaks and support, the other two were straight off the training park.

Disco's stats on the Weedgie board state that we have only scored more than five tries away from home twice in this tournament, once at Twckenham a couple of years ago and once against Wales in 1925.

It's our second ever BP win away from home

Stats though, eh. We also had a tackle completion of around 84%. Shocking.

What an interesting stat would be is in the last 7 years since Italy won how many times the opposition hasn't got a bonus point against them. I'm going to guess under 10

I listened to the BBC Scotland rugby podcast and what is notable I think is Townsend also tried to say how good Italy are. And English, Burke and Wright really had none of it saying they'd scored one try and 16 points until the Scotland game. I think slowly but very notably with Palmer's article last week the rugby press are turning on him.

Since they beat us in round 3 in 2015 it is right around 70-80% iirc.

[Blackmac]

Someone needs to tell Schoeman to attack Furling from 45 degrees. He can't handle it!

She must be taking the piss. England tighthead folds like a pack of cards.

[Slick]

The stats up there from optojohnny are a little surprising but I think a lot of gloss was taken off the win by conceding three tries in that left hand corner.

Three of our tries came from very good breaks and support, the other two were straight off the training park.

Disco's stats on the Weedgie board state that we have only scored more than five tries away from home twice in this tournament, once at Twckenham a couple of years ago and once against Wales in 1925.

It's our second ever BP win away from home

Stats though, eh. We also had a tackle completion of around 84%. Shocking.

15% of those misses seemed like Steyn though. 3 tries on his wing

[Slick]

In the last 10 seasons they've won 4 games against tier 1 opposition. This is about to be 7 6Ns in a row where they've won no games.

They are not a good side. If they weren't already in then there'd be zero clamour for them to join other than to grow the game.

Scotland were mince for a long time too but we never went on a run like that.

They’re on a similar level to Japan and Fiji IMO, significantly better than the Tongas/USAs/Georgias of this world and significantly worse than Argentina.
If they weren’t in the 6N they’d be wiping the floor with the ENC and we’d be talking about how much better the tournament would be with a sixth side

I don't think we would, and we wouldn't be claiming for Italy full time but possibly promotion/relegation. The last time they beat Georgia it was by 8 or 9 points. They scraped past Uruguay in November. About to lost 35+ in a row in the 6N isn't a good look.

Italy have had 20 years of the 6N, about 13 years of having pro teams in a competitive league. They should be better than the PI teams, who are hugely under funded and not given a fair shake.

Something has to give and if it ends in Scotland getting relegated one year so be it. I think I am now for promotion and relegation. We can't have a major competition with a team losing 35+ in a row. Where does it stop before something changes 50? They'll probably beat us at Murrayfield next year now I've said that but the point stands.

Sorry, that’s nonsense. What’s the point in promotion if the promoted team get beaten by 70 every game? I may just about stretch to considering a play off between bottom and top but I think we would be much better off throwing money at the D2 to improve them in their own comp than bankrupting a top 10 Union

[Big D]

They’re on a similar level to Japan and Fiji IMO, significantly better than the Tongas/USAs/Georgias of this world and significantly worse than Argentina.
If they weren’t in the 6N they’d be wiping the floor with the ENC and we’d be talking about how much better the tournament would be with a sixth side

I don't think we would, and we wouldn't be claiming for Italy full time but possibly promotion/relegation. The last time they beat Georgia it was by 8 or 9 points. They scraped past Uruguay in November. About to lost 35+ in a row in the 6N isn't a good look.

Italy have had 20 years of the 6N, about 13 years of having pro teams in a competitive league. They should be better than the PI teams, who are hugely under funded and not given a fair shake.

Something has to give and if it ends in Scotland getting relegated one year so be it. I think I am now for promotion and relegation. We can't have a major competition with a team losing 35+ in a row. Where does it stop before something changes 50? They'll probably beat us at Murrayfield next year now I've said that but the point stands.

Sorry, that’s nonsense. What’s the point in promotion if the promoted team get beaten by 70 every game? I may just about stretch to considering a play off between bottom and top but I think we would be much better off throwing money at the D2 to improve them in their own comp than bankrupting a top 10 Union

So we just keep a team in that has lost 33 on the spin at an average of 27.5 per game, or 31.4 points over the last 3 championships because there is a risk Georgia would get pumped by more? Even allowing for the Irish farce they are losing by on average 30.5 points this season.

A play off would be exactly the way to do it. It at least gives Georgia or anyone else a fair chance. If any team finishes last, my preference would be a two year rolling table with bottom entering the relegation play off and a summer playoff away at the team looking for promotion. If a team finishes last over 10 games and then can't beat the best of the rest then they only have themselves to blame no matter who it is.

[Big D]

The stats up there from optojohnny are a little surprising but I think a lot of gloss was taken off the win by conceding three tries in that left hand corner.

Three of our tries came from very good breaks and support, the other two were straight off the training park.

Disco's stats on the Weedgie board state that we have only scored more than five tries away from home twice in this tournament, once at Twckenham a couple of years ago and once against Wales in 1925.

It's our second ever BP win away from home

Stats though, eh. We also had a tackle completion of around 84%. Shocking.

15% of those misses seemed like Steyn though. 3 tries on his wing

Graham and Hastings also missed 3, Hastings made none! 11 missed by 3 players.

[KingBlairhorn]

I’m sorry but relegation is a fucking mental idea. Regardless of how we got there, we are in a position that any team relegated from the 6N would be utterly bankrupt. Yes, we need to grow the game but a game with Georgia in the 6N and Italy no longer in existence helps that goal how exactly?

It is absolutely protectionism, but our game in Scotland is already on the brink, just as it is in Italy and wales. Why anyone thinks risking our ability to continue as a tier 1 nation, or a rugby nation at all, is an appropriate risk to take utterly baffles me.

[Big D]

Ireland open as 14 point favorites for next weekend. Feels a little light given what might be at stake for Ireland and how embarrassed their tight 5 will be after some scrum issues (even if refs fault).

France 7 and Wales 28 point favourites for those who like a punt.

[KingBlairhorn]

Stats though, eh. We also had a tackle completion of around 84%. Shocking.

15% of those misses seemed like Steyn though. 3 tries on his wing

Graham and Hastings also missed 3, Hastings made none! 11 missed by 3 players.

Graham maybe gets a pass because it’s his job to chase on restart / kick chase? That often ends in a ‘missed tackle’ when the goal is really just to limit the quality of the kick return, not necessarily make a tackle. Not sure how those are recorded but the rushing player often gets stepped by the kicker.

[Big D]

I’m sorry but relegation is a fucking mental idea. Regardless of how we got there, we are in a position that any team relegated from the 6N would be utterly bankrupt. Yes, we need to grow the game but a game with Georgia in the 6N and Italy no longer in existence helps that goal how exactly?

It is absolutely protectionism, but our game in Scotland is already on the brink, just as it is in Italy and wales. Why anyone thinks risking our ability to continue as a tier 1 nation, or a rugby nation at all, is an appropriate risk to take utterly baffles me.

I mean you're right and that's why it would and probably should never happen.

But it's frustrating when Italy have been given a lot of financial assistance through the 6N which also led to them being in the pro14 now UTC and are now approaching 7 tournament in a row without a win. Over those years they'll have made 5-7m plus ticket sales and TV money for losing by on average 27.5 points. They haven't beaten a tier 1 team in 5 years despite being afforded way more chances and time with players than any other non tier 1 team.

World Rugby has got itself stuck in a rut where by no new teams can make any consistent impact in world rugby or make the leap from T3 to T2 and T2 to T1.

[sockwithaticket]

I’m sorry but relegation is a fucking mental idea. Regardless of how we got there, we are in a position that any team relegated from the 6N would be utterly bankrupt. Yes, we need to grow the game but a game with Georgia in the 6N and Italy no longer in existence helps that goal how exactly?

It is absolutely protectionism, but our game in Scotland is already on the brink, just as it is in Italy and wales. Why anyone thinks risking our ability to continue as a tier 1 nation, or a rugby nation at all, is an appropriate risk to take utterly baffles me.

Yup.

Growing the game should be focused on improving the other tier 2 nations within the context of their competitions not trying to shoe horn their best into the 6N or Rugby Championship. Especially not at the cost of existing tier 1 (or 1.5 in a couple of cases...).

[Big D]

15% of those misses seemed like Steyn though. 3 tries on his wing

Graham and Hastings also missed 3, Hastings made none! 11 missed by 3 players.

Graham maybe gets a pass because it’s his job to chase on restart / kick chase? That often ends in a ‘missed tackle’ when the goal is really just to limit the quality of the kick return, not necessarily make a tackle. Not sure how those are recorded but the rushing player often gets stepped by the kicker.

I don't think they are counted unless obviously missed.

[Jock42]

I haven't rewatched the game (watched on my phone at a wedding) and don't think I'll bother. Handling and discipline looked utterly appalling.

[Slick]

I haven't rewatched the game (watched on my phone at a wedding) and don't think I'll bother. Handling and discipline looked utterly appalling.

It’s not as bad as you might have been led to believe.

In saying that, maybe find a highlights package!

Edit: “mates” getting married on a 6N weekend?

[Jock42]

I haven't rewatched the game (watched on my phone at a wedding) and don't think I'll bother. Handling and discipline looked utterly appalling.

It’s not as bad as you might have been led to believe.

In saying that, maybe find a highlights package!

Edit: “mates” getting married on a 6N weekend?

Shocking I know, would be lost without 4G these days.

[Paddington Bear]

In the last 10 seasons they've won 4 games against tier 1 opposition. This is about to be 7 6Ns in a row where they've won no games.

They are not a good side. If they weren't already in then there'd be zero clamour for them to join other than to grow the game.

Scotland were mince for a long time too but we never went on a run like that.

They’re on a similar level to Japan and Fiji IMO, significantly better than the Tongas/USAs/Georgias of this world and significantly worse than Argentina.
If they weren’t in the 6N they’d be wiping the floor with the ENC and we’d be talking about how much better the tournament would be with a sixth side

I don't think we would, and we wouldn't be claiming for Italy full time but possibly promotion/relegation. The last time they beat Georgia it was by 8 or 9 points. They scraped past Uruguay in November. About to lost 35+ in a row in the 6N isn't a good look.

Italy have had 20 years of the 6N, about 13 years of having pro teams in a competitive league. They should be better than the PI teams, who are hugely under funded and not given a fair shake.

Something has to give and if it ends in Scotland getting relegated one year so be it. I think I am now for promotion and relegation. We can't have a major competition with a team losing 35+ in a row. Where does it stop before something changes 50? They'll probably beat us at Murrayfield next year now I've said that but the point stands.

They out out their second string against Uruguay fwiw.
The debate is all the sillier given Georgia entered a tournament with the big boys - the ANC - and got thumped every game. They’re not very good and their pack is much weaker than it’s reputation. Italy are a much better side.
PI teams was probably a poor comparison to introduce on my part, what they lack in funding and respect from the powers that be is made up for in genetics. European sport does not produce athletes that stack up like Pacific Islanders, just a fact.
I’ve posted my frustration with Italy before, but there is no better European option, they clearly have improved albeit from a very low base this year and someone has to finish last. 7 years without a win is as much indicative of Scotland in particular being much improved as it is anything else.

[Big D]

They out out their second string against Uruguay fwiw.
The debate is all the sillier given Georgia entered a tournament with the big boys - the ANC - and got thumped every game. They’re not very good and their pack is much weaker than it’s reputation. Italy are a much better side.
PI teams was probably a poor comparison to introduce on my part, what they lack in funding and respect from the powers that be is made up for in genetics. European sport does not produce athletes that stack up like Pacific Islanders, just a fact.
I’ve posted my frustration with Italy before, but there is no better European option, they clearly have improved albeit from a very low base this year and someone has to finish last. 7 years without a win is as much indicative of Scotland in particular being much improved as it is anything else.

Italy started 6 out of 7 backs in both Uruguay and Scotland matches, 4 or 5 of the forwards that started the Uruguay match played v Scotland as did 2 or 3 of the subs. https://www.espn.com/rugby/lineups?game ... gue=289234
The A game was the week before.

Georgia didn't get thumped anymore than Italy have been to be fair. IiRC they kept Wales and Ireland (with some 2nd string players) to less than 25.

As I said above it probably won't ever happen and for good reason but Italy have benefitted from 23 seasons of 6N money (TV, tickets, prize money) and over the last 9 years Italy have won as many as Georgia have lost (1). One is being financially and competitively boosted by being part of a competition and getting beaten fairly comfortably week after week and the other is getting neither money nor opportunity.

In reality, Georgia (or AN Other team) would never work in the 6N for plenty reasons but it is a shame others don't get or will ever get a real opportunity to progress.

Edit: probably shouldn't have started talking about this in the national thread. Sorry all.

[Big D]

Some stats from https://mobile.twitter.com/RosscoHamilton.

Some good things and some worrying things in there. Notably gain line success and collision dominance considering who is next and a bit of a bogey team.

[Slick]

The SRU ticketing website is bloody cumbersome and annoying!

Just took me about 25 mins to buy tickets for the womens match for me and the kids.

[KingBlairhorn]

Jordan Edmunds (wing) and Murphy Walker (tighthead) added to the squad. I can only presume they are there to help with training but WTF? Edmunds is a 7s player whos only previous experience was with Boroughmuir Bears. Murphy Walker possibly has potential but he has a grand total of 1 professional game to his name. I am very surprised they have been called up rather than, for instance, Ollie Smith (can play wing), Cole Forbes or Murray McCallum.

Fraser Brown and Cummings also back in the squad.

[Jock42]

Jordan Edmunds (wing) and Murphy Walker (tighthead) added to the squad. I can only presume they are there to help with training but WTF? Edmunds is a 7s player whos only previous experience was with Boroughmuir Bears. Murphy Walker possibly has potential but he has a grand total of 1 professional game to his name. I am very surprised they have been called up rather than, for instance, Ollie Smith (can play wing), Cole Forbes or Murray McCallum.

Fraser Brown and Cummings also back in the squad.

Probably so they don't disrupt the derby on Friday any more than is necessary.

[Big D]

Jordan Edmunds (wing) and Murphy Walker (tighthead) added to the squad. I can only presume they are there to help with training but WTF? Edmunds is a 7s player whos only previous experience was with Boroughmuir Bears. Murphy Walker possibly has potential but he has a grand total of 1 professional game to his name. I am very surprised they have been called up rather than, for instance, Ollie Smith (can play wing), Cole Forbes or Murray McCallum.

Fraser Brown and Cummings also back in the squad.

Bag holders.

[KingBlairhorn]

Jordan Edmunds (wing) and Murphy Walker (tighthead) added to the squad. I can only presume they are there to help with training but WTF? Edmunds is a 7s player whos only previous experience was with Boroughmuir Bears. Murphy Walker possibly has potential but he has a grand total of 1 professional game to his name. I am very surprised they have been called up rather than, for instance, Ollie Smith (can play wing), Cole Forbes or Murray McCallum.

Fraser Brown and Cummings also back in the squad.

Bag holders.

You'd think, but why not list them as 'training with the squad'?

[I like neeps]

Jordan Edmunds (wing) and Murphy Walker (tighthead) added to the squad. I can only presume they are there to help with training but WTF? Edmunds is a 7s player whos only previous experience was with Boroughmuir Bears. Murphy Walker possibly has potential but he has a grand total of 1 professional game to his name. I am very surprised they have been called up rather than, for instance, Ollie Smith (can play wing), Cole Forbes or Murray McCallum.

Fraser Brown and Cummings also back in the squad.

Ollie Smith is in the squad (and maybe injured), Forbes has had a bad season so far.

[weegie01]

Jordan Edmunds (wing) and Murphy Walker (tighthead) added to the squad. I can only presume they are there to help with training but WTF? Edmunds is a 7s player whos only previous experience was with Boroughmuir Bears. Murphy Walker possibly has potential but he has a grand total of 1 professional game to his name. I am very surprised they have been called up rather than, for instance, Ollie Smith (can play wing), Cole Forbes or Murray McCallum.

Fraser Brown and Cummings also back in the squad.

Ollie Smith is in the squad (and maybe injured), Forbes has had a bad season so far.

On the other hand, Murray McCallum is having the time of his life at Worcester. He's never enjoyed his professional rugby so much, and seems to be getting lots of time for Worcester..........at loosehead.

[KingBlairhorn]

Jordan Edmunds (wing) and Murphy Walker (tighthead) added to the squad. I can only presume they are there to help with training but WTF? Edmunds is a 7s player whos only previous experience was with Boroughmuir Bears. Murphy Walker possibly has potential but he has a grand total of 1 professional game to his name. I am very surprised they have been called up rather than, for instance, Ollie Smith (can play wing), Cole Forbes or Murray McCallum.

Fraser Brown and Cummings also back in the squad.

Ollie Smith is in the squad (and maybe injured), Forbes has had a bad season so far.

On the other hand, Murray McCallum is having the time of his life at Worcester. He's never enjoyed his professional rugby so much, and seems to be getting lots of time for Worcester..........at loosehead.

FFS!

[I like neeps]

Jordan Edmunds (wing) and Murphy Walker (tighthead) added to the squad. I can only presume they are there to help with training but WTF? Edmunds is a 7s player whos only previous experience was with Boroughmuir Bears. Murphy Walker possibly has potential but he has a grand total of 1 professional game to his name. I am very surprised they have been called up rather than, for instance, Ollie Smith (can play wing), Cole Forbes or Murray McCallum.

Fraser Brown and Cummings also back in the squad.

Ollie Smith is in the squad (and maybe injured), Forbes has had a bad season so far.

On the other hand, Murray McCallum is having the time of his life at Worcester. He's never enjoyed his professional rugby so much, and seems to be getting lots of time for Worcester..........at loosehead.

Good on him for continuing with rugby and getting gametime.

[Big D]

Jordan Edmunds (wing) and Murphy Walker (tighthead) added to the squad. I can only presume they are there to help with training but WTF? Edmunds is a 7s player whos only previous experience was with Boroughmuir Bears. Murphy Walker possibly has potential but he has a grand total of 1 professional game to his name. I am very surprised they have been called up rather than, for instance, Ollie Smith (can play wing), Cole Forbes or Murray McCallum.

Fraser Brown and Cummings also back in the squad.

Ollie Smith is in the squad (and maybe injured), Forbes has had a bad season so far.

On the other hand, Murray McCallum is having the time of his life at Worcester. He's never enjoyed his professional rugby so much, and seems to be getting lots of time for Worcester..........at loosehead.

Which is why I suspect he was left alone this week. No point disrupting his good run of training and games at Worcester just for the sake of a week with no prospect of playing. He knows what international weeks are like.

Long may his good run last.

[Big D]

Jordan Edmunds (wing) and Murphy Walker (tighthead) added to the squad. I can only presume they are there to help with training but WTF? Edmunds is a 7s player whos only previous experience was with Boroughmuir Bears. Murphy Walker possibly has potential but he has a grand total of 1 professional game to his name. I am very surprised they have been called up rather than, for instance, Ollie Smith (can play wing), Cole Forbes or Murray McCallum.

Fraser Brown and Cummings also back in the squad.

Bag holders.

You'd think, but why not list them as 'training with the squad'?

I don't think it really makes much different in the last week of the 6N. Will do the young prop good to spend time with DeVilliers.

[weegie01]

Ollie Smith is in the squad (and maybe injured), Forbes has had a bad season so far.

On the other hand, Murray McCallum is having the time of his life at Worcester. He's never enjoyed his professional rugby so much, and seems to be getting lots of time for Worcester..........at loosehead.

FFS!

I just watched the Gallagher highlights, then checked what I saw.

McCallum put in a 77 minute shift. Against Exeter. He has visibly bulked up, and there is not a cat's chance in hell he could play that long at Edinburgh where he was not the hardest trainer.

[robmatic]

On the other hand, Murray McCallum is having the time of his life at Worcester. He's never enjoyed his professional rugby so much, and seems to be getting lots of time for Worcester..........at loosehead.

FFS!

I just watched the Gallagher highlights, then checked what I saw.

McCallum put in a 77 minute shift. Against Exeter. He has visibly bulked up, and there is not a cat's chance in hell he could play that long at Edinburgh where he was not the hardest trainer.

That would explain why Cockerill wasn't that keen on him.

[KingBlairhorn]

FFS!

I just watched the Gallagher highlights, then checked what I saw.

McCallum put in a 77 minute shift. Against Exeter. He has visibly bulked up, and there is not a cat's chance in hell he could play that long at Edinburgh where he was not the hardest trainer.

That would explain why Cockerill wasn't that keen on him.

Cockerill's problem (as far as an outsider can tell) was he was never able to then understand why that was the case and work to change things - he would just blow up at people or freeze them out entirely. If that is true he was a classic poor manager with limited emotional intelligence who didn't understand his role was to facilitate an environment for performance, not be a dictator. Those who were already good trainers will have loved his environment as they would have excelled, those who needed additional support would have hated it and regressed. I think we can see that in how things worked out.

[Soapy]

Cockerill's problem (as far as an outsider can tell) was he was never able to then understand why that was the case and work to change things - he would just blow up at people or freeze them out entirely. If that is true he was a classic poor manager with limited emotional intelligence who didn't understand his role was to facilitate an environment for performance, not be a dictator. Those who were already good trainers will have loved his environment as they would have excelled, those who needed additional support would have hated it and regressed. I think we can see that in how things worked out.

Agreed!
Unfortunately, whilst a different personality to Cockerill, Townsend also appears to lack management skills and nous to develop and sustain a performing environment. If there's a poor performance against Ireland I'll be easy to convince that it's time to move Townsend on.

[KingBlairhorn]

Cockerill's problem (as far as an outsider can tell) was he was never able to then understand why that was the case and work to change things - he would just blow up at people or freeze them out entirely. If that is true he was a classic poor manager with limited emotional intelligence who didn't understand his role was to facilitate an environment for performance, not be a dictator. Those who were already good trainers will have loved his environment as they would have excelled, those who needed additional support would have hated it and regressed. I think we can see that in how things worked out.

Agreed!
Unfortunately, whilst a different personality to Cockerill, Townsend also appears to lack management skills and nous to develop and sustain a performing environment. If there's a poor performance against Ireland I'll be easy to convince that it's time to move Townsend on.

I've seen quite a bit from Townsend to suggest that's less true. He has changed his approach at least twice now (fastest playing team in international rugby --> toughest defence in international rugby --> whatever it is we are doing now). This speaks to flexibility and adaptability, which were both traits not seen in Cockerill and which would be unusual under a dictator style. Beyond this, his change in approach to Russell, first rehabilitating him and then admitting his mistake and admitting him to the leadership group suggests he does understand others motivations and can use them. He also built a culture at Glasgow (or built on one) that has endured well after he left, which again speaks to his ability to make a performance environment for others to thrive in.

It's always hard to say from the outside, but it does seem to be a much happier and more productive environment than under Cockerill at Edinburgh.

[I like neeps]

Cockerill's problem (as far as an outsider can tell) was he was never able to then understand why that was the case and work to change things - he would just blow up at people or freeze them out entirely. If that is true he was a classic poor manager with limited emotional intelligence who didn't understand his role was to facilitate an environment for performance, not be a dictator. Those who were already good trainers will have loved his environment as they would have excelled, those who needed additional support would have hated it and regressed. I think we can see that in how things worked out.

Agreed!
Unfortunately, whilst a different personality to Cockerill, Townsend also appears to lack management skills and nous to develop and sustain a performing environment. If there's a poor performance against Ireland I'll be easy to convince that it's time to move Townsend on.

I've seen quite a bit from Townsend to suggest that's less true. He has changed his approach at least twice now (fastest playing team in international rugby --> toughest defence in international rugby --> whatever it is we are doing now). This speaks to flexibility and adaptability, which were both traits not seen in Cockerill and which would be unusual under a dictator style. Beyond this, his change in approach to Russell, first rehabilitating him and then admitting his mistake and admitting him to the leadership group suggests he does understand others motivations and can use them. He also built a culture at Glasgow (or built on one) that has endured well after he left, which again speaks to his ability to make a performance environment for others to thrive in.

It's always hard to say from the outside, but it does seem to be a much happier and more productive environment than under Cockerill at Edinburgh.

We've now regressed at fast playing attacking rugby AND keep it tight defensive rugby though. Doesn't really say too much about keeping performance at the same level.

I wonder about the camp. I listen to Ryan Wilson's podcasts sometimes and it does sound like they enjoyed the off the pitch in Japan 2019 too much going and getting trashed in bars midweek at times. Then the Russell revolt. Who really knows, Edinburgh were flying before covid I doubt anyone would've predicted the complete collapse and clear unhappiness in the camp even 12 months before the end of cockers.

[KingBlairhorn]

Agreed!
Unfortunately, whilst a different personality to Cockerill, Townsend also appears to lack management skills and nous to develop and sustain a performing environment. If there's a poor performance against Ireland I'll be easy to convince that it's time to move Townsend on.

I've seen quite a bit from Townsend to suggest that's less true. He has changed his approach at least twice now (fastest playing team in international rugby --> toughest defence in international rugby --> whatever it is we are doing now). This speaks to flexibility and adaptability, which were both traits not seen in Cockerill and which would be unusual under a dictator style. Beyond this, his change in approach to Russell, first rehabilitating him and then admitting his mistake and admitting him to the leadership group suggests he does understand others motivations and can use them. He also built a culture at Glasgow (or built on one) that has endured well after he left, which again speaks to his ability to make a performance environment for others to thrive in.

It's always hard to say from the outside, but it does seem to be a much happier and more productive environment than under Cockerill at Edinburgh.

We've now regressed at fast playing attacking rugby AND keep it tight defensive rugby though. Doesn't really say too much about keeping performance at the same level.

I wonder about the camp. I listen to Ryan Wilson's podcasts sometimes and it does sound like they enjoyed the off the pitch in Japan 2019 too much going and getting trashed in bars midweek at times. Then the Russell revolt. Who really knows, Edinburgh were flying before covid I doubt anyone would've predicted the complete collapse and clear unhappiness in the camp even 12 months before the end of cockers.

Sure, but that could be just bad coaching. A performance environment is not the same thing as good coaching. It is about creating the environment in which individuals and the team can excel - if they then use that environment to deliver shit and/or contradictory coaching points that's in some way irrelevant.

[Big D]

I wonder about the camp. I listen to Ryan Wilson's podcasts sometimes and it does sound like they enjoyed the off the pitch in Japan 2019 too much going and getting trashed in bars midweek at times.

They were ill prepared for playing in Japan. I remember discussing it within this church(although on PR) that they looked heavy legged and unfit (in elite rugby context). It was buggered before they left these shores.

[Deveron Boy]

[quote="I like neeps" post_id=189511 time=<a href="tel:1647353535">1647353535</a> user_id=208]

I wonder about the camp. I listen to Ryan Wilson's podcasts sometimes and it does sound like they enjoyed the off the pitch in Japan 2019 too much going and getting trashed in bars midweek at times.

They were ill prepared for playing in Japan. I remember discussing it within this church(although on PR) that they looked heavy legged and unfit (in elite rugby context). It was buggered before they left these shores.
[/quote]


Well rumours about a big night out in Rome and a few including Hogg and Russell lying to Gregor about it might mean big changes this weekend

[Jock42]

I hope they are just rumours. It was suggested just how mentally small minded they are that they've seen that as the end of the 6N

[Yr Alban]

I still think we are getting manshamed next week. We are nowhere close to being able to challenge Ireland on their own turf.

Very nervous myself and I am usually Mr optimistic, I think the France match knocked the stuffing out of my positivity for this season.

You up for a few beers to suffer next weekends match in the pub ?

I fear not, unfortunately. We are still awaiting details of the speech and drama thing our younger son is performing at in Chester. I suppose the game doesn’t kick off until 16:45 though, so there’s a chance I might be able to join you if he is done reasonably early.