The Official English Rugby Thread

[sockwithaticket]

There's always going to be travelling reserves in a team, it hopefully just means Alfie is really close.

I know, it just feels like a waste for him not to be getting game time when in such a rich vein of form.

flip side to that is it's allowed some rest for a young player who it'd be easy to play for too many minutes

True. He's already had his game time fairly regulated by injuries, though. I wouldn't say he's yet in danger of being over-played. I suppose it could be the case that not playing now will help increase the length of time until the next injury.

[Kawazaki]

The infuriating thing for me regards Malins is that he's a brilliant fullback/2nd receiver or standby flyhalf but he's being shoehorned onto the wing where he only gets to employ a fraction of his ability. Meanwhile, Furlong is the one regarded as the 15/10 option.

It's just more Eddiot selection madness.

Yep - get a proper winger in, drop Daly entirely, and have Malins on the bench covering mulitple positions - just doesn't make any sense for him to go from starting to being left out entirely - albeit he did very little in the last game - zero metres with ball in hand !!

Daly isn't a proper winger?

I'm also not sure why someone would think leaving Malins out is 'madness' unless they want Steward booted. It's a fair point Malins could go back to 15, but it's hardly nuts to keep Steward at 15, and as the poster thinks Malins on the wing is a waste to be that upset he's not featured on the wing or bench is a little weird, if you're going to be left that irate by something one in part agrees with..., well it's odd

Steward's lack of pace is being found out. I called it as a problem in here before his first cap. Great under the high ball but he offers very little with ball in hand and he definitely can't play as a second-receiver like Malins can.

My post that you refer to is quite specific - Malins should be the 15/10 option rather than Furlong for the main reason that he's simply a better player in both of those positions.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Yep - get a proper winger in, drop Daly entirely, and have Malins on the bench covering mulitple positions - just doesn't make any sense for him to go from starting to being left out entirely - albeit he did very little in the last game - zero metres with ball in hand !!

Daly isn't a proper winger?

I'm also not sure why someone would think leaving Malins out is 'madness' unless they want Steward booted. It's a fair point Malins could go back to 15, but it's hardly nuts to keep Steward at 15, and as the poster thinks Malins on the wing is a waste to be that upset he's not featured on the wing or bench is a little weird, if you're going to be left that irate by something one in part agrees with..., well it's odd

Steward's lack of pace is being found out. I called it as a problem in here before his first cap. Great under the high ball but he offers very little with ball in hand and he definitely can't play as a second-receiver like Malins can.

My post that you refer to is quite specific - Malins should be the 15/10 option rather than Furlong for the main reason that he's simply a better player in both of those positions.

Both are seen as top footballers by Eddie it seems, even if for myself I fail to see Furlong offers enough at 15 at test level and he has a number of people ahead of him as a 10, starting even just at Saints

That said Furlong is mostly there to hold tackle bags it seems, you could want Malins in that role, it doesn't seem 'madness' not to.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I know, it just feels like a waste for him not to be getting game time when in such a rich vein of form.

flip side to that is it's allowed some rest for a young player who it'd be easy to play for too many minutes

True. He's already had his game time fairly regulated by injuries, though. I wouldn't say he's yet in danger of being over-played. I suppose it could be the case that not playing now will help increase the length of time until the next injury.

tough for Wasps not having both him and Willis mind

[Ovals]

The infuriating thing for me regards Malins is that he's a brilliant fullback/2nd receiver or standby flyhalf but he's being shoehorned onto the wing where he only gets to employ a fraction of his ability. Meanwhile, Furlong is the one regarded as the 15/10 option.

It's just more Eddiot selection madness.

Yep - get a proper winger in, drop Daly entirely, and have Malins on the bench covering mulitple positions - just doesn't make any sense for him to go from starting to being left out entirely - albeit he did very little in the last game - zero metres with ball in hand !!

Daly isn't a proper winger?

I'm also not sure why someone would think leaving Malins out is 'madness' unless they want Steward booted. It's a fair point Malins could go back to 15, but it's hardly nuts to keep Steward at 15, and as the poster thinks Malins on the wing is a waste to be that upset he's not featured on the wing or bench is a little weird, if you're going to be left that irate by something one in part agrees with..., well it's odd

When was the last time he was selected to play on the wing ? But it was actually Malins I was really referring too as not being a proper winger. Personally I'm not irate - just bemused. Daly really hasn't done anything to warrant selection - his form has been very sketchy - hence why I suggested he be the one to drop out of the squad.

[Paddington Bear]

France kick the leather off it, wouldn't mind having our safest pair of hands at 15.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

When was the last time he was selected to play on the wing ? But it was actually Malins I was really referring too as not being a proper winger. Personally I'm not irate - just bemused. Daly really hasn't done anything to warrant selection - his form has been very sketchy - hence why I suggested he be the one to drop out of the squad.

Italy, sort of, with Nowell going off in the opening quarter anyway. And we saw something of a difference in the football skills Daly brings Vs some of the less experienced backline

Myself I wouldn't pick either in the 15, although I think both decent shouts for the 23 shirt. Actually I might not have dropped Malins for Steward to begin with, but that's done at least for now, just if Daly is playing, and especially if he's playing left wing allowing Nowell to play where he's used to, then that seems a good call to me, and at worst a close one Vs Malins involvement.

Longer term I'd like more pace in the back three and I'd really like Radwan back in the side, but OHC could be a good shout too. But for now away to France with so many players unproven at test level (and counting the other day I figured 22 out of the 34 were unproven) having Daly who's plenty young enough to go through to the WC and his 50 caps or so seems fine

[Kawazaki]

My personal England XV to play France currently available;

1. Genge
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Lawes
6. Barbeary
8. Dombrandt
7. Willis
9. Randall
10. Smith
11. Radwan
12. Lozowski
13. Slade
14. Nowell
15. Malins

Blamire
Marler
Stuart
Launchbury
B. Vunipola
Underhill
Quirke
Marchant

6/2 bench allows Billy to return to carry hard in the latter stages.

Also backs have more pace and they're playing in their normal positions.

Edit: to swap in Nowell for Marchant to start.

[JM2K6]

Daly has been shit. What position he is shit in barely matters. Covering multiple positions badly is not a strength.

Malins is playing for England off the back of superb form shown for both Bristol and Saracens on the wing. It's not some weird Eddie Jones thing; both club sides realised it played to his strengths and helped hide some of his weaknesses. Eddie just agreed with them.

[inactionman]

Not much use for this 6N, and I know I sound like some Bath cheerleader - someone's got to be - but we've got Anthony Watson to return which will help longer-term with pace in backline.

He was in good nick before latest knee-knack, although it's a pretty serious ligament injury which isn't without implications for rehab and recovery.

[Kawazaki]

Daly has been shit. What position he is shit in barely matters. Covering multiple positions badly is not a strength.

Malins is playing for England off the back of superb form shown for both Bristol and Saracens on the wing. It's not some weird Eddie Jones thing; both club sides realised it played to his strengths and helped hide some of his weaknesses. Eddie just agreed with them.

Malins best form for Bristol was probably when he played at 10.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Not much use for this 6N, and I know I sound like some Bath cheerleader - someone's got to be - but we've got Anthony Watson to return which will help longer-term with pace in backline.

He was in good nick before latest knee-knack, although it's a pretty serious ligament injury which isn't without implications for rehab and recovery.

That is indeed something to hope for

[SaintK]

My personal England XV to play France currently available;

1. Genge
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Lawes
6. Barbeary
8. Dombrandt
7. Willis
9. Randall
10. Smith
11. Radwan
12. Lozowski
13. Slade
14. Nowell
15. Malins

Blamire
Marler
Stuart
Launchbury
B. Vunipola
Underhill
Quirke
Marchant

6/2 bench allows Billy to return to carry hard in the latter stages.

Also backs have more pace and they're playing in their normal positions.

Edit: to swap in Nowell for Marchant to start.

I'd take that.
Might even score a couple of tries. Though even that's doubtful with Gleeson as attach coach!!!

[Ovals]

My personal England XV to play France currently available;

1. Genge
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Lawes
6. Barbeary
8. Dombrandt
7. Willis
9. Randall
10. Smith
11. Radwan
12. Lozowski
13. Slade
14. Nowell
15. Malins

Blamire
Marler
Stuart
Launchbury
B. Vunipola
Underhill
Quirke
Marchant

6/2 bench allows Billy to return to carry hard in the latter stages.

Also backs have more pace and they're playing in their normal positions.

Edit: to swap in Nowell for Marchant to start.

I'd take that.
Might even score a couple of tries. Though even that's doubtful with Gleeson as attach coach!!!

Billy of a few years ago, maybe, but not the current version.

[JM2K6]

Daly has been shit. What position he is shit in barely matters. Covering multiple positions badly is not a strength.

Malins is playing for England off the back of superb form shown for both Bristol and Saracens on the wing. It's not some weird Eddie Jones thing; both club sides realised it played to his strengths and helped hide some of his weaknesses. Eddie just agreed with them.

Malins best form for Bristol was probably when he played at 10.

That seems unlikely. He had one excellent game standing in for Sheedy when he got injured early on against shithouse Newcastle, and was pretty shaky at 10 against Exeter. So less than two matches at 10.

After that, he was exclusively on the wing and doing a great job - 7 tries in 5 matches. And he scored a bucketload of tries for Sarries on the wing and generally tore it up in a way he wasn't quite doing from fullback, though he wasn't exactly bad there and was very exciting going forward at times - he's just got a few issues with tackling and catching high balls. He could easily be a future England fullback. But it's silly to ignore that he pushed his way into England contention by the consistency of his performances and try-scoring from the wing. Especially as you demanded he start for England after his performance against Bath... on the wing...

[Kawazaki]

Daly has been shit. What position he is shit in barely matters. Covering multiple positions badly is not a strength.

Malins is playing for England off the back of superb form shown for both Bristol and Saracens on the wing. It's not some weird Eddie Jones thing; both club sides realised it played to his strengths and helped hide some of his weaknesses. Eddie just agreed with them.

Malins best form for Bristol was probably when he played at 10.

That seems unlikely. He had one excellent game standing in for Sheedy when he got injured early on against shithouse Newcastle, and was pretty shaky at 10 against Exeter. So less than two matches at 10.

After that, he was exclusively on the wing and doing a great job - 7 tries in 5 matches. And he scored a bucketload of tries for Sarries on the wing and generally tore it up in a way he wasn't quite doing from fullback, though he wasn't exactly bad there and was very exciting going forward at times - he's just got a few issues with tackling and catching high balls. He could easily be a future England fullback. But it's silly to ignore that he pushed his way into England contention by the consistency of his performances and try-scoring from the wing. Especially as you demanded he start for England after his performance against Bath... on the wing...

I don't think Malins is quick enough to play on the wing for England.

[JM2K6]

Malins best form for Bristol was probably when he played at 10.

That seems unlikely. He had one excellent game standing in for Sheedy when he got injured early on against shithouse Newcastle, and was pretty shaky at 10 against Exeter. So less than two matches at 10.

After that, he was exclusively on the wing and doing a great job - 7 tries in 5 matches. And he scored a bucketload of tries for Sarries on the wing and generally tore it up in a way he wasn't quite doing from fullback, though he wasn't exactly bad there and was very exciting going forward at times - he's just got a few issues with tackling and catching high balls. He could easily be a future England fullback. But it's silly to ignore that he pushed his way into England contention by the consistency of his performances and try-scoring from the wing. Especially as you demanded he start for England after his performance against Bath... on the wing...

I don't think Malins is quick enough to play on the wing for England.

I dunno - he's pacey, not Radwan fast but seems plenty quick enough, especially as he has excellent acceleration and is a slippery bugger. It's a bit of a problem in this back 3 but if Radwan had replaced Nowell instead of him it wouldn't be a problem at all.

[Kawazaki]

I'm not a big fan of wingers who generate pace through a long stride length unless they are massive. It's not a problem from fullback as long as they hit the line with good timing which is a stock in trade for test level 15s, but wingers need speed and great footwork and to have great footwork you need your feet to be in contact with the pitch often which you get from a short stride length.

There are some exceptions to these physiological observations of course but not many. You might well rate Malins as a good winger in the Premiership but for me he's a yard short of the pace required to play there at test level.

As I've previously observed, Steward isn't quick enough to play 15 for England (in my opinion of course) despite his excellence under the highball being quite eye-catching.

[JM2K6]

Hey, we both rated him as a winger and both pushed him for England. And both commented on how quick he is... :-)

[JM2K6]

Also, completely unrelated, but I think the classic "fullback hits the line" isn't really a thing any more. They join the line ahead of time usually, and 90% of their running game is counter-attacking now. I don't think we see those scenarios where the ball is going down the line and then a fullback coming at pace from depth gets it and burst through very often at all. Attacks are very flat these days.

I actually thought a rare example of it might be Steward's try agains Oz but having looked at it again, he's level with 3 other backs




Genuinely can't think of many modern fullbacks whose attacking ability isn't either an outside break in the line or just counter attacking madskills.

[sockwithaticket]

Pretty cool stat just popped up on the Wasps Facebook page - Tom Willis is currently top of the Prem defenders beaten chart with 72. Next is Tyrone Green with 69 and then Duhan Van Der Merwe with 62.

Some effort and he's missed several weeks with injury and concussion stand down.

[Kawazaki]

Hey, we both rated him as a winger and both pushed him for England. And both commented on how quick he is... :-)

We can change our minds! I'm fed up with the Eddie hybrid bollocks if I'm honest. Pick the best players in their best positions and let them do what they do instinctively well.

[Kawazaki]

Also, completely unrelated, but I think the classic "fullback hits the line" isn't really a thing any more. They join the line ahead of time usually, and 90% of their running game is counter-attacking now. I don't think we see those scenarios where the ball is going down the line and then a fullback coming at pace from depth gets it and burst through very often at all. Attacks are very flat these days.

I actually thought a rare example of it might be Steward's try agains Oz but having looked at it again, he's level with 3 other backs




Genuinely can't think of many modern fullbacks whose attacking ability isn't either an outside break in the line or just counter attacking madskills.

Hogg and that short Ulster fullback can hit good lines.

[Slick]

Tut tut,
Naughty Tigers




Saracens might be a bit miffed

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/premiers ... tory.shtml

Not clear how this differs from Sarries. The numbers are all material even if not as large a total as Sarries so surely points deductions should come into it too?

It differs because there are laws in place that deal with overruns upto £350k per season. With fixed punishments for infringements within those parameters. They have broken the cap, and are being dealt with exactly how the laws in place say they should be dealt with.

Ahh OK, fair enough, didn’t know that

[Rhubarb & Custard]

not picking Malins on the wing on the back of strong club performances is almost a thing you'd expect from Eddie, mostly he's been good at projecting ahead to what a player could be realising club rugby is quite some level below and it's hardly consistent that attainment at a lower level confers they'll do well at the highest of levels, that doesn't explain dumping Care to pick Heinz, but mostly

[Hal Jordan]

Anyway, a fit Watson starts every match on the wing for me.

[JM2K6]

Also, completely unrelated, but I think the classic "fullback hits the line" isn't really a thing any more. They join the line ahead of time usually, and 90% of their running game is counter-attacking now. I don't think we see those scenarios where the ball is going down the line and then a fullback coming at pace from depth gets it and burst through very often at all. Attacks are very flat these days.

I actually thought a rare example of it might be Steward's try agains Oz but having looked at it again, he's level with 3 other backs




Genuinely can't think of many modern fullbacks whose attacking ability isn't either an outside break in the line or just counter attacking madskills.

Hogg and that short Ulster fullback can hit good lines.

I'm sure most of them can - but Hogg's known for the counter-attack, right? The focus has really changed.

[Paddington Bear]

Steward has stopped high balls being a liability for us, which has made our defence significantly better. He showed in the autumn attacking promise and is definitely worth persisting with.
The only glaring gap in defence at the moment is our ability to react to quick taps/lineouts etc, which we are criminally shit at dealing with.
Has Malins had anything resembling a half chance this 6N? Hard to criticise him too much IMHO given he barely gets the ball.

[inactionman]

Apparently Bath and Anthony Watson not seeing eye to eye in contract negotiations, so looking likely he may be off after all - it's likely to be one of his last big paydays so understand reasons, and Bath really need to invest up front. Implication for England is that may be overseas, given his wage demands and salary cap reductions.

Roko apparently off to Montauban in D2.

[Kawazaki]

Steward has stopped high balls being a liability for us, which has made our defence significantly better. He showed in the autumn attacking promise and is definitely worth persisting with.
The only glaring gap in defence* ** at the moment is our ability to react to quick taps/lineouts etc, which we are criminally shit at dealing with.
Has Malins had anything resembling a half chance this 6N? Hard to criticise him too much IMHO given he barely gets the ball.

* and terrible tackling technique
** and giving away loads of penalties

[Paddington Bear]

Steward has stopped high balls being a liability for us, which has made our defence significantly better. He showed in the autumn attacking promise and is definitely worth persisting with.
The only glaring gap in defence* ** at the moment is our ability to react to quick taps/lineouts etc, which we are criminally shit at dealing with.
Has Malins had anything resembling a half chance this 6N? Hard to criticise him too much IMHO given he barely gets the ball.

* and terrible tackling technique
** and giving away loads of penalties

Happy to be corrected, but penalty count strikes me as less than previous seasons?

[Kawazaki]

Apparently Bath and Anthony Watson not seeing eye to eye in contract negotiations, so looking likely he may be off after all - it's likely to be one of his last big payday. Implication for England is that may be overseas, given his wage demands and salary cap reductions.

Roko apparently off to Montauban in D2.

Unless your name is Ben Youngs, you'd be mad to put any faith in automatic selection process by Jones.

[Lobby]

Steward has stopped high balls being a liability for us, which has made our defence significantly better. He showed in the autumn attacking promise and is definitely worth persisting with.
The only glaring gap in defence* ** at the moment is our ability to react to quick taps/lineouts etc, which we are criminally shit at dealing with.
Has Malins had anything resembling a half chance this 6N? Hard to criticise him too much IMHO given he barely gets the ball.

* and terrible tackling technique
** and giving away loads of penalties

Happy to be corrected, but penalty count strikes me as less than previous seasons?

Correct, discipline is better this year.

Last year England gave away 67 penalties across the 6 nations, and led the penalty count in every game they played, with an average of 13.4 penalties a game. In the four games so far this year, England have been penalised 43 times, and have not led the penalty count in any game. Indeed, Ireland's penalty count was almost double England's last week (15 against 8). England's average this year is 10.75 penalties per game

[sockwithaticket]

Ewels manages to escape his idiocy with a 3 week ban. Considering van Der Merwe just got 3 weeks for fucking up a hand off, that seems lenient.

[Margin__Walker]

Ewels manages to escape his idiocy with a 3 week ban. Considering van Der Merwe just got 3 weeks for fucking up a hand off, that seems lenient.

Three weeks is the norm. Assuming 6 week sanction with 50% off for a guilty plea and a record that's not terrible. Rona and Hendrickson got the same today.

The argument would better be framed in VDM's ban being harsh. Which I'd probably agree with agree with based on level of danger, but 'fucking up a hand off' is still a forearm to the face. Just as fucking up a tackle is a high shot.

[ASMO]

England side for France leaked, allegedly

https://www.ruck.co.uk/leaked-england-x ... -starting/

[sockwithaticket]

Ewels manages to escape his idiocy with a 3 week ban. Considering van Der Merwe just got 3 weeks for fucking up a hand off, that seems lenient.

Three weeks is the norm. Assuming 6 week sanction with 50% off for a guilty plea and a record that's not terrible. Rona and Hendrickson got the same today.

The argument would better be framed in VDM's ban being harsh. Which I'd probably agree with agree with based on level of danger, but 'fucking up a hand off' is still a forearm to the face. Just as fucking up a tackle is a high shot.

The extent of the reduction for admitting to something there's usually pretty definitive video of is a whole different discussion I suppose.

Level of danger should've been used to reduce VDM to a yellow on field or rescind the red card, bu that ship has obviously long since sailed.

Letter of the law you are, of course, absolutely correct. It just doesn't feel right for the two incidents to produce the same outcome. Ewels' just seems much worse(and not only because I'm among those who don't particularly want him involved with England).

[Margin__Walker]

England side for France leaked, allegedly

https://www.ruck.co.uk/leaked-england-x ... -starting/

The ruck are pure make stuff up for clicks. It will just be a guess rather than a leak.

[Oxbow]

England side for France leaked, allegedly

https://www.ruck.co.uk/leaked-england-x ... -starting/

The ruck are pure make stuff up for clicks. It will just be a guess rather than a leak.

They had Lawes starting when he was confirmed as missing the first couple of games with concussion, not the most reliable source.

[JM2K6]

Ewels manages to escape his idiocy with a 3 week ban. Considering van Der Merwe just got 3 weeks for fucking up a hand off, that seems lenient.

Three weeks is the norm. Assuming 6 week sanction with 50% off for a guilty plea and a record that's not terrible. Rona and Hendrickson got the same today.

The argument would better be framed in VDM's ban being harsh. Which I'd probably agree with agree with based on level of danger, but 'fucking up a hand off' is still a forearm to the face. Just as fucking up a tackle is a high shot.

The extent of the reduction for admitting to something there's usually pretty definitive video of is a whole different discussion I suppose.

Level of danger should've been used to reduce VDM to a yellow on field or rescind the red card, bu that ship has obviously long since sailed.

Letter of the law you are, of course, absolutely correct. It just doesn't feel right for the two incidents to produce the same outcome. Ewels' just seems much worse(and not only because I'm among those who don't particularly want him involved with England).

Bit surprised at this take. VDM's forearm smash looked a stone cold red to me.