The Official English Rugby Thread

[Ovals]

It's not exactly the attack that nobody else has line of thinking being espoused but a few weeks ago. Hard too to see what it does to develop the pairing of Randall and Smith

It's pretty much an admission that they've completely failed and just aren't going to bother with it any longer. TBH you don't need a highly paid head coach to implement the limited gameplan that appears to be latest Eddie's latest brain brainwave. Yet again we've made no real progress during the 6N.

It's almost less we make little progress and instead we keep resetting and starting anew. The attack we had last 6N was interesting if difficult to see how it could be sustained, the autumn was not good, but since then we started this 6N in very similar style to France as regards the attack. But whereas France have developed their attack over several years we've again changed or perhaps again given up. For sure Eddie runs some very nice strike moves, and in a lot of games our pack, the kick chase and running strike moves off penalties will work, but if you don't get the penalties and the other side take your kicks then not only is it a rotten watch it's near doomed to failure.

Johnson did this too, try an attack, find some problems in it and change the plan. Eddie should have more patience, or needs to control more what his underlings are up to, but whatever we need to accept progress isn't always instant. And now additionally selection seems to be getting worse

Rumour has it that we might see Steward at IC on some set pieces. He's a big lad so he might pull in some defenders.

[laurent]

It's pretty much an admission that they've completely failed and just aren't going to bother with it any longer. TBH you don't need a highly paid head coach to implement the limited gameplan that appears to be latest Eddie's latest brain brainwave. Yet again we've made no real progress during the 6N.

It's almost less we make little progress and instead we keep resetting and starting anew. The attack we had last 6N was interesting if difficult to see how it could be sustained, the autumn was not good, but since then we started this 6N in very similar style to France as regards the attack. But whereas France have developed their attack over several years we've again changed or perhaps again given up. For sure Eddie runs some very nice strike moves, and in a lot of games our pack, the kick chase and running strike moves off penalties will work, but if you don't get the penalties and the other side take your kicks then not only is it a rotten watch it's near doomed to failure.

Johnson did this too, try an attack, find some problems in it and change the plan. Eddie should have more patience, or needs to control more what his underlings are up to, but whatever we need to accept progress isn't always instant. And now additionally selection seems to be getting worse

Rumour has it that we might see Steward at IC on some set pieces. He's a big lad so he might pull in some defenders.

Danty is not really small though.

[Kawazaki]

It's pretty much an admission that they've completely failed and just aren't going to bother with it any longer. TBH you don't need a highly paid head coach to implement the limited gameplan that appears to be latest Eddie's latest brain brainwave. Yet again we've made no real progress during the 6N.

It's almost less we make little progress and instead we keep resetting and starting anew. The attack we had last 6N was interesting if difficult to see how it could be sustained, the autumn was not good, but since then we started this 6N in very similar style to France as regards the attack. But whereas France have developed their attack over several years we've again changed or perhaps again given up. For sure Eddie runs some very nice strike moves, and in a lot of games our pack, the kick chase and running strike moves off penalties will work, but if you don't get the penalties and the other side take your kicks then not only is it a rotten watch it's near doomed to failure.

Johnson did this too, try an attack, find some problems in it and change the plan. Eddie should have more patience, or needs to control more what his underlings are up to, but whatever we need to accept progress isn't always instant. And now additionally selection seems to be getting worse

Rumour has it that we might see Steward at IC on some set pieces. He's a big lad so he might pull in some defenders.

Steward is big but he moves like a big man. That the problem. Big backs are fine as long as they still move like backs. Steward doesn't.

[sockwithaticket]

It's pretty much an admission that they've completely failed and just aren't going to bother with it any longer. TBH you don't need a highly paid head coach to implement the limited gameplan that appears to be latest Eddie's latest brain brainwave. Yet again we've made no real progress during the 6N.

It's almost less we make little progress and instead we keep resetting and starting anew. The attack we had last 6N was interesting if difficult to see how it could be sustained, the autumn was not good, but since then we started this 6N in very similar style to France as regards the attack. But whereas France have developed their attack over several years we've again changed or perhaps again given up. For sure Eddie runs some very nice strike moves, and in a lot of games our pack, the kick chase and running strike moves off penalties will work, but if you don't get the penalties and the other side take your kicks then not only is it a rotten watch it's near doomed to failure.

Johnson did this too, try an attack, find some problems in it and change the plan. Eddie should have more patience, or needs to control more what his underlings are up to, but whatever we need to accept progress isn't always instant. And now additionally selection seems to be getting worse

Rumour has it that we might see Steward at IC on some set pieces. He's a big lad so he might pull in some defenders.

He's tall, but he's pretty skinny. Add in his lack of pace and I'm not sure I see much penetration from using him as we have other wingers coming in off set plays. Although that's also a tactical flaw because I can't recall many instances of any team getting a winger carrying inside off a set piece actually producing much more than an easy tackle for the defence.

[Ovals]

It's almost less we make little progress and instead we keep resetting and starting anew. The attack we had last 6N was interesting if difficult to see how it could be sustained, the autumn was not good, but since then we started this 6N in very similar style to France as regards the attack. But whereas France have developed their attack over several years we've again changed or perhaps again given up. For sure Eddie runs some very nice strike moves, and in a lot of games our pack, the kick chase and running strike moves off penalties will work, but if you don't get the penalties and the other side take your kicks then not only is it a rotten watch it's near doomed to failure.

Johnson did this too, try an attack, find some problems in it and change the plan. Eddie should have more patience, or needs to control more what his underlings are up to, but whatever we need to accept progress isn't always instant. And now additionally selection seems to be getting worse

Rumour has it that we might see Steward at IC on some set pieces. He's a big lad so he might pull in some defenders.

He's tall, but he's pretty skinny. Add in his lack of pace and I'm not sure I see much penetration from using him as we have other wingers coming in off set plays. Although that's also a tactical flaw because I can't recall many instances of any team getting a winger carrying inside off a set piece actually producing much more than an easy tackle for the defence.

I know he's tall, and I'm not suggesting it's good move - but he's not exactly skinny @ 107Kg. That's a fair bit more beef than Slade

[sockwithaticket]

Rumour has it that we might see Steward at IC on some set pieces. He's a big lad so he might pull in some defenders.

He's tall, but he's pretty skinny. Add in his lack of pace and I'm not sure I see much penetration from using him as we have other wingers coming in off set plays. Although that's also a tactical flaw because I can't recall many instances of any team getting a winger carrying inside off a set piece actually producing much more than an easy tackle for the defence.

I know he's tall, and I'm not suggesting it's good move - but he's not exactly skinny @ 107Kg. That's a fair bit more beef than Slade

I say skinny more about his physique than his weight. Devin Toner is the obvious extreme example, he was very heavy as a 6'10 second row but regularly got folded in half or made zero ground because he was lanky with it. A very high centre of gravity and not being at all stocky made him easy to put down.

Also not sure how much credit I give to Steward being 107 kilos...

[Ovals]

He's tall, but he's pretty skinny. Add in his lack of pace and I'm not sure I see much penetration from using him as we have other wingers coming in off set plays. Although that's also a tactical flaw because I can't recall many instances of any team getting a winger carrying inside off a set piece actually producing much more than an easy tackle for the defence.

I know he's tall, and I'm not suggesting it's good move - but he's not exactly skinny @ 107Kg. That's a fair bit more beef than Slade

I say skinny more about his physique than his weight. Devin Toner is the obvious extreme example, he was very heavy as a 6'10 second row but regularly got folded in half or made zero ground because he was lanky with it. A very high centre of gravity and not being at all stocky made him easy to put down.

Also not sure how much credit I give to Steward being 107 kilos...

His physique can hardly be described as 'skinny'.

[Kawazaki]

Please people, Steward is not a particularly big ball carrier, even by club standards let alone test level. And he's definitely not quick, even by backrower standards. If the plan is to get him to carry the ball up into traffic because he's 6'5" and 107kgs then he'll get destroyed, and I mean seriously smashed by players used to tackling far bigger and/or faster beasts running in those channels.

The more you think about this the more horrific it gets. It's just utter madness. Just pick players in their best positions FFS.

[Paddington Bear]

Steward did run over a few people in the Autumn, no?

[Ovals]

Steward did run over a few people in the Autumn, no?

Yep - but I still think it's wishful thinking by our Coaches. Mind you, even if he does get tackled easily, it's no worse than what we've been doing recently and it would mean that, on ocassion, Slade is back at OC. I doubt that we'll see much of him there anyway.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

If Steward is carrying on strike phases that could be more about he's not going to support at the breakdown than they're expecting him to break tackles and drop off delightful offloads. Basically there's more trust in Marchant, Slade and Nowell

[JM2K6]

Steward did run over a few people in the Autumn, no?

Yes. He powered through a fair few, including for one of his tries. We've gone from "Steward's a bit slow" to "Steward can't do anything" in record time.

[JM2K6]

If Steward is carrying on strike phases that could be more about he's not going to support at the breakdown than they're expecting him to break tackles and drop off delightful offloads. Basically there's more trust in Marchant, Slade and Nowell

Sorry just how often are you expecting the fullback to be the one supporting at the breakdown in a midfield carry off first phase ball

[JM2K6]

practically off a standing start, going through some serious tacklers to score. He's not a weakling. It's a dumb line to take.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm not suggesting he's weak, I'm just playing in my head all the times we've asked our wings like May, Watson or Malins to come charging in off their wing into a set defence from a lineout and they've been soundly put down without making much ground far more often than it achieves anything. I don't see Steward faring noticeably better.

We're hardly the only team to ask that of our wings and other teams seem to have just as little success with it, so the persistence as a tactic baffles me. There must be something in it for coaches to keep training it and players to keep calling it, but it's lost on me.

[Kawazaki]

Steward did run over a few people in the Autumn, no?

Yes. He powered through a fair few, including for one of his tries. We've gone from "Steward's a bit slow" to "Steward can't do anything" in record time.

His highlight reel of catching is good. Ball in hand, highlights are shorter.

I think it likely he'll be comically bad on the wing at test level.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

If Steward is carrying on strike phases that could be more about he's not going to support at the breakdown than they're expecting him to break tackles and drop off delightful offloads. Basically there's more trust in Marchant, Slade and Nowell

Sorry just how often are you expecting the fullback to be the one supporting at the breakdown in a midfield carry off first phase ball

The winger, and strike moves don't all limit to one phase

[Ovals]

If Steward is carrying on strike phases that could be more about he's not going to support at the breakdown than they're expecting him to break tackles and drop off delightful offloads. Basically there's more trust in Marchant, Slade and Nowell

Sorry just how often are you expecting the fullback to be the one supporting at the breakdown in a midfield carry off first phase ball

Errrmmmmm - Full Back !!! You haven't got your Eddie radar turned on.

[Kawazaki]

Bath are 40-7 down at halftime against Bristol in the cup match. I wonder if they'll set another record loss tonight?

[Ovals]

Steward did run over a few people in the Autumn, no?

Yes. He powered through a fair few, including for one of his tries. We've gone from "Steward's a bit slow" to "Steward can't do anything" in record time.

His highlight reel of catching is good. Ball in hand, highlights are shorter.

I think it likely he'll be comically bad on the wing at test level.

I doubt he'll be that bad - most FBs can do a serviceable job on the wing - he's a bit slow but not exactly glacial, he is a big unit that can break tackles - but he's not the best winger we have available, by a long shot, and his selection doesn't help with progressing the team. Neither is Furbank the best FB we have available. Furbank may be better than he was a couple of seasons back, but the last time he played in France he had a mare.

I never want England to lose but I fear that good result might be very bad for us in the longer term.

[Kawazaki]

Yes. He powered through a fair few, including for one of his tries. We've gone from "Steward's a bit slow" to "Steward can't do anything" in record time.

His highlight reel of catching is good. Ball in hand, highlights are shorter.

I think it likely he'll be comically bad on the wing at test level.

I doubt he'll be that bad - most FBs can do a serviceable job on the wing - he's a bit slow but not exactly glacial, he is a big unit that can break tackles - but he's not the best winger we have available, by a long shot, and his selection doesn't help with progressing the team. Neither is Furbank the best FB we have available. Furbank may be better than he was a couple of seasons back, but the last time he played in France he had a mare.

I never want England to lose but I fear that good result might be very bad for us in the longer term.

Malins was dropped altogether, and he's a fullback with more pace who actually has played a bit on the wing!

I can't tell if Jones is being sadistic or masochistic.

[Oxbow]

Small defence of Furbank, I don't think he should be anywhere near the team, but he does have a reasonable turn of pace and isn't as slow as some people are making out.

[fishfoodie]

I can't tell if Jones is being sadistic or masochistic.

If he was a bowler, he'd have the sporting Integrity guys going thru his Bank accounts with a fine tooth comb !

His selection will probably have the bookies taking a bath, on any bets that had France +8

[Kawazaki]

Small defence of Furbank, I don't think he should be anywhere near the team, but he does have a reasonable turn of pace and isn't as slow as some people are making out.

I don't think anyone has said Furbank is slow. He's likely the quickest in a slow back-3.

[Paddington Bear]

Steward did run over a few people in the Autumn, no?

Yes. He powered through a fair few, including for one of his tries. We've gone from "Steward's a bit slow" to "Steward can't do anything" in record time.

His highlight reel of catching is good. Ball in hand, highlights are shorter.

I think it likely he'll be comically bad on the wing at test level.

He’s barely touched the ball this 6N. The problem is in the centres. I don’t like the team selected but he’s not my main issue. Tbh it’s a no lose day tomorrow, a win would be lovely and nice to see a GA jib from the other side. A loss and well done France, they’re a great side and good to have them back.

[JM2K6]

Steward did run over a few people in the Autumn, no?

Yes. He powered through a fair few, including for one of his tries. We've gone from "Steward's a bit slow" to "Steward can't do anything" in record time.

His highlight reel of catching is good. Ball in hand, highlights are shorter.

I think it likely he'll be comically bad on the wing at test level.

I was shocked when I saw Tigers put him on the wing but fair play he did well. I do think it's a terrible shout for this game though.

[JM2K6]

If Steward is carrying on strike phases that could be more about he's not going to support at the breakdown than they're expecting him to break tackles and drop off delightful offloads. Basically there's more trust in Marchant, Slade and Nowell

Sorry just how often are you expecting the fullback to be the one supporting at the breakdown in a midfield carry off first phase ball

The winger, and strike moves don't all limit to one phase

Literally talking about him being at IC for set pieces, spoofer

(and yes, winger - which is even *less* likely than the fullback to be any kind of consideration for supporting the breakdown off a set piece move)

[Ovals]

Yes. He powered through a fair few, including for one of his tries. We've gone from "Steward's a bit slow" to "Steward can't do anything" in record time.

His highlight reel of catching is good. Ball in hand, highlights are shorter.

I think it likely he'll be comically bad on the wing at test level.

I was shocked when I saw Tigers put him on the wing but fair play he did well. I do think it's a terrible shout for this game though.

He'll probably do a decent job might even do well - but it means we now have at least one third of our team who aren't the best available selections for their position and it all points to a rather negative gameplan. Were we to win (unlikely I know) it could well persuade Eddie that it's the way forward and we'll be stuck with it until his next brainfart and change of direction and it'll never lead to a 'world class' team. We're in a lose/lose situation here.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Sorry just how often are you expecting the fullback to be the one supporting at the breakdown in a midfield carry off first phase ball

The winger, and strike moves don't all limit to one phase

Literally talking about him being at IC for set pieces, spoofer

(and yes, winger - which is even *less* likely than the fullback to be any kind of consideration for supporting the breakdown off a set piece move)

Yes at IC, that's the point so he's on the carry not supporting the carry. It's unlikely to be a sole factor, but Marchant, Nowell and Slade are all likely seen as better support options if they go wider

[Monk]

i expect lots of cross-kicking from Smith today

[Kawazaki]

If you're one of the few people (in this place at least) who still thinks that Eddie Jones is some kind of rugby genius then I imagine you'll be looking forward to seeing the 'chink' in the defensive armour that Jones talked about in the the French back-3 get ruthlessly and repeatedly exposed by the England kicking game, either from Youngs at 9, Smith at 10 or kicks by the England midfield and back-3. My first thought would be to ask what possession are England going to use to kick these kicks? The French kick more than the English so most of the possession for England to kick will be obtained by fielding kicks that have been kicked to them by the French. So where do England kick from, from deep in their own half where they fieldef the kick or do they run it back then kick from the ruck? If the latter then the England back-3 have to run the ball back far enough so the England forwards are onside to win the ruck. Well who is going to do this? Nowell is the best equipped physically to do it, then perhaps Furbank and the least equipped to run the ball back from deep is Steward. This gives the French the option to either kick the ball in the spaces between and behind Steward and Furbank to make the slower Steward turn and run back or, kick to the other side to pull Furbank away from Steward and then when Furbank and Nowell are chasing their kick return back from the same side of the pitch, then kick in behind Steward and isolate him behind his support.

In short, the French can do to England what it appears Jones wants England to do to France but with more advantages at their disposal to see it through successfully.

[JM2K6]

The winger, and strike moves don't all limit to one phase

Literally talking about him being at IC for set pieces, spoofer

(and yes, winger - which is even *less* likely than the fullback to be any kind of consideration for supporting the breakdown off a set piece move)

Yes at IC, that's the point so he's on the carry not supporting the carry. It's unlikely to be a sole factor, but Marchant, Nowell and Slade are all likely seen as better support options if they go wider

He wouldn't have been supporting the carry.

I realise your gimmick is to pretend you see things that literally no one else does, but him lining up at IC isn't some big brained move regarding other players being better at supporting the breakdown. It's that he's our largest back in a team lacking size and power in the backline so at times they'd want to use him either to punch the ball up the middle or use the threat of that to hold some defenders. It's really that straightforward.

[SaintK]

If you're one of the few people (in this place at least) who still thinks that Eddie Jones is some kind of rugby genius then I imagine you'll be looking forward to seeing the 'chink' in the defensive armour that Jones talked about in the the French back-3 get ruthlessly and repeatedly exposed by the England kicking game, either from Youngs at 9, Smith at 10 or kicks by the England midfield and back-3. My first thought would be to ask what possession are England going to use to kick these kicks? The French kick more than the English so most of the possession for England to kick will be obtained by fielding kicks that have been kicked to them by the French. So where do England kick from, from deep in their own half where they fieldef the kick or do they run it back then kick from the ruck? If the latter then the England back-3 have to run the ball back far enough so the England forwards are onside to win the ruck. Well who is going to do this? Nowell is the best equipped physically to do it, then perhaps Furbank and the least equipped to run the ball back from deep is Steward. This gives the French the option to either kick the ball in the spaces between and behind Steward and Furbank to make the slower Steward turn and run back or, kick to the other side to pull Furbank away from Steward and then when Furbank and Nowell are chasing their kick return back from the same side of the pitch, then kick in behind Steward and isolate him behind his support.

In short, the French can do to England what it appears Jones wants England to do to France but with more advantages at their disposal to see it through successfully.

I don't give a flying fuck what they do!!
I've given up on Jones knowing what he's talking about. The fact that today's captain has come out and said "we're doing this for Eddie" about sums up everything.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Literally talking about him being at IC for set pieces, spoofer

(and yes, winger - which is even *less* likely than the fullback to be any kind of consideration for supporting the breakdown off a set piece move)

Yes at IC, that's the point so he's on the carry not supporting the carry. It's unlikely to be a sole factor, but Marchant, Nowell and Slade are all likely seen as better support options if they go wider

He wouldn't have been supporting the carry.

I realise your gimmick is to pretend you see things that literally no one else does, but him lining up at IC isn't some big brained move regarding other players being better at supporting the breakdown. It's that he's our largest back in a team lacking size and power in the backline so at times they'd want to use him either to punch the ball up the middle or use the threat of that to hold some defenders. It's really that straightforward.

That's not a wholly unfair point, about him being big, certainly it makes more sense that they'll not consider who the potential breakdown support players are or that wingers aren't very possibly going to be among those support players. But, if that's the thing, merely that he's big, it's an odd piece of thinking because he's not especially physical with his size and his protection of the ball taking it into contact isn't (or hasn't been) at the standard of acceptable never mind good, frankly if that's the thinking whilst I'd not be surprised to find it at Tamworth 3rds I'd be disappointed if that's test match level planning

It's quite possible it's not the idea I floated out into the ether around having him carry so he's not giving support, it might be whilst he's no more physical than Slade they get through a phase using him and still have Smith and Slade on their feet reading the play and available as distributors

If he gets through this game and carries 3-4 times with a big impact then we can start to use him as a physical threat, just until he establishes that a defence isn't likely to start adjusting to him being such a threat. If the French defence does panic in the face of an unproven threat I'd like to see the reaction of Edwards mind

[petej]

Yes at IC, that's the point so he's on the carry not supporting the carry. It's unlikely to be a sole factor, but Marchant, Nowell and Slade are all likely seen as better support options if they go wider

He wouldn't have been supporting the carry.

I realise your gimmick is to pretend you see things that literally no one else does, but him lining up at IC isn't some big brained move regarding other players being better at supporting the breakdown. It's that he's our largest back in a team lacking size and power in the backline so at times they'd want to use him either to punch the ball up the middle or use the threat of that to hold some defenders. It's really that straightforward.

That's not a wholly unfair point, about him being big, certainly it makes more sense that they'll not consider who the potential breakdown support players are or that wingers aren't very possibly going to be among those support players. But, if that's the thing, merely that he's big, it's an odd piece of thinking because he's not especially physical with his size and his protection of the ball taking it into contact isn't (or hasn't been) at the standard of acceptable never mind good, frankly if that's the thinking whilst I'd not be surprised to find it at Tamworth 3rds I'd be disappointed if that's test match level planning

It's quite possible it's not the idea I floated out into the ether around having him carry so he's not giving support, it might be whilst he's no more physical than Slade they get through a phase using him and still have Smith and Slade on their feet reading the play and available as distributors

If he gets through this game and carries 3-4 times with a big impact then we can start to use him as a physical threat, just until he establishes that a defence isn't likely to start adjusting to him being such a threat. If the French defence does panic in the face of an unproven threat I'd like to see the reaction of Edwards mind

If you want a physical centre you could just select one like Ojomoh or Kelly.

[Kawazaki]

He wouldn't have been supporting the carry.

I realise your gimmick is to pretend you see things that literally no one else does, but him lining up at IC isn't some big brained move regarding other players being better at supporting the breakdown. It's that he's our largest back in a team lacking size and power in the backline so at times they'd want to use him either to punch the ball up the middle or use the threat of that to hold some defenders. It's really that straightforward.

That's not a wholly unfair point, about him being big, certainly it makes more sense that they'll not consider who the potential breakdown support players are or that wingers aren't very possibly going to be among those support players. But, if that's the thing, merely that he's big, it's an odd piece of thinking because he's not especially physical with his size and his protection of the ball taking it into contact isn't (or hasn't been) at the standard of acceptable never mind good, frankly if that's the thinking whilst I'd not be surprised to find it at Tamworth 3rds I'd be disappointed if that's test match level planning

It's quite possible it's not the idea I floated out into the ether around having him carry so he's not giving support, it might be whilst he's no more physical than Slade they get through a phase using him and still have Smith and Slade on their feet reading the play and available as distributors

If he gets through this game and carries 3-4 times with a big impact then we can start to use him as a physical threat, just until he establishes that a defence isn't likely to start adjusting to him being such a threat. If the French defence does panic in the face of an unproven threat I'd like to see the reaction of Edwards mind

If you want a physical centre you could just select one like Ojomoh or Kelly.

Or just pick Simmonds, Earl or Barbeary at 12.

[Kawazaki]

Clive Woodward is not holding back on saying who he thinks are the best coaches in the tournament. He clearly thinks Eddie is a cunt.

Well done Clive.

[JM2K6]

Fuck off Eddie, and take your no-mark oxygen thief coaching team with you.

[Kawazaki]

I know I'm getting carried away.

And I know I didn't used to like him years ago...

But how about after we finally purge English rugby of the Jones years after next year's RWC, the RFU employ Woodward as Executive Director of Elite Rugby and then get Edwards in as Head Coach?

How would that work?

[Margin__Walker]

This is the perfect illustration for me



Only managed to win 4 games once in the last 5 years. Second year in a row winning only 2.

I know we're not exactly in golden generation territory, but there are players (and coaches) stealing a living out there. That back three selection, with Daly as bench cover was the final indignity. Steward did well, but he's a full back. Play him there and select proper wings. That's before you even get to Youngs and Slade as a 12.