The Official English Rugby Thread

[sockwithaticket]

I know I'm getting carried away.

And I know I didn't used to like him years ago...

But how about after we finally purge English rugby of the Jones years after next year's RWC, the RFU employ Woodward as Executive Director of Elite Rugby and then get Edwards in as Head Coach?

How would that work?

No to Woodward. At all. He's fine to snipe with obvious observations from the sideline, but it's 17 years since he had any real interaction with the sport. Wonder if Connor O'Shea's remit could be expanded.

Not sure about Edwards being anything other than a defence coach. He's clearly brilliant at that, but he'd be an unknown quantity as a head man. Andy Robinson and Paul Gustard should be the flashing red lights of the English game warning against promoting a specialist to the top role.

[JM2K6]

I know I'm getting carried away.

And I know I didn't used to like him years ago...

But how about after we finally purge English rugby of the Jones years after next year's RWC, the RFU employ Woodward as Executive Director of Elite Rugby and then get Edwards in as Head Coach?

How would that work?

Badly, Woodward has nothing to offer and Edwards is a defence coach only imo.

If we can't get Edwards as a defence coach, Worsley is the next best option, as someone who's done a great job in France over a period of years. Find an attack coach and a head coach of a similar calibre.

Not to get all Quins about it but maybe it's time we stopped looking for one person to fix everything.

[Kawazaki]

Edwards as head coach of Wasps won a Premiership and a Heineken Cup!

I get the criticism of Woodward but the RFU desperately needs a rugby man between the C-suite and the rugby. It also needs a liaison that can build bridges with the club DORs. Jones has shat all over that connection, it desperately needs to be rebuilt.

[Hugo]

Woodward is too narcissistic, he would never support a head coach & just let him get on with the job IMO.

Agree about Edwards, we need to move heaven and earth to get him in the setup post 2023.

[Margin__Walker]

Woodward's shown no interest in being a rugby man for a long time (other than getting wheeled out periodically on ITV).

He's also almost as much as an insufferable prick as Jones. Him being involved again would finish me off.

[sockwithaticket]

Edwards as head coach of Wasps won a Premiership and a Heineken Cup!

I get the criticism of Woodward but the RFU desperately needs a rugby man between the C-suite and the rugby. It also needs a liaison that can build bridges with the club DORs. Jones has shat all over that connection, it desperately needs to be rebuilt.

I forgot about that because McGeechan was there as DoR at the same time.

[Kawazaki]

Woodward's shown no interest in being a rugby man for a long time (other than getting wheeled out periodically on ITV).

He's also almost as much as an insufferable prick as Jones. Him being involved again would finish me off.

I get that. I used to hate the cunt. But he's our cunt, we at least know he gives a shit about us. I think Jones is just dialling it in because he thinks we're all cunts, I seriously think he's taking the piss

[Crash669]

Edwards said on the Rugby Pod that he likes long term employment, so I'm reading nothing less than 4 years. But if they gave this cunt a 4 year contract off the 2019 word cup, they'll probably offer Edwards a six month rolling contract, such is the RFU's capacity to fuck everything up.

Not sure who would be a good fit for a DOR type role though.

[Hal Jordan]

Man, he is stealing a living from that Grand Slam and World Cup run.

[Crash669]

Woodward's shown no interest in being a rugby man for a long time (other than getting wheeled out periodically on ITV).

He's also almost as much as an insufferable prick as Jones. Him being involved again would finish me off.

I get that. I used to hate the cunt. But he's our cunt, we at least know he gives a shit about us. I think Jones is just dialling it in because he thinks we're all cunts, I seriously think he's taking the piss

It seems clear that Jones really doesn't like the English. Which frankly I can understand, but no one made him be the national coach.

[Kawazaki]

Woodward's shown no interest in being a rugby man for a long time (other than getting wheeled out periodically on ITV).

He's also almost as much as an insufferable prick as Jones. Him being involved again would finish me off.

I get that. I used to hate the cunt. But he's our cunt, we at least know he gives a shit about us. I think Jones is just dialling it in because he thinks we're all cunts, I seriously think he's taking the piss

It seems clear that Jones really doesn't like the English. Which frankly I can understand, but no one made him be the national coach.

Read Jones's latest book, he loves the wealthy. He loves money, covets it. It's money that turns him on and he's not fussed who it belongs to. £800k per annum plus his living expenses doesn't even get him full time FFS.

[Crash669]

Read Jones's latest book, he loves the wealthy. He loves money, covets it. It's money that turns him on and he's not fussed who it belongs to. £800k plus his living expenses doesn't even get him full time FFS.

It's on the list right after Mein Kampf and the Art of the Deal.

[Kawazaki]

Read Jones's latest book, he loves the wealthy. He loves money, covets it. It's money that turns him on and he's not fussed who it belongs to. £800k plus his living expenses doesn't even get him full time FFS.

It's on the list right after Mein Kampf and the Art of the Deal.

At least they were high achievers.

[JM2K6]

Edwards as head coach of Wasps won a Premiership and a Heineken Cup!

I get the criticism of Woodward but the RFU desperately needs a rugby man between the C-suite and the rugby. It also needs a liaison that can build bridges with the club DORs. Jones has shat all over that connection, it desperately needs to be rebuilt.

There's a lot of rugby men I'd look to before Woodward, who has just been a rent a quote for decades now.

Edwards I'm sure would do a job but he's a world class defence coach and there's a reason why he's stayed at that level I think.

[Kawazaki]

Edwards as head coach of Wasps won a Premiership and a Heineken Cup!

I get the criticism of Woodward but the RFU desperately needs a rugby man between the C-suite and the rugby. It also needs a liaison that can build bridges with the club DORs. Jones has shat all over that connection, it desperately needs to be rebuilt.

There's a lot of rugby men I'd look to before Woodward, who has just been a rent a quote for decades now.

Edwards I'm sure would do a job but he's a world class defence coach and there's a reason why he's stayed at that level I think.

He's more than ready to take the top role now. He could still do defence. No way he leaves France before the RWC but the recruitment process to get him the day after the final should start now.

[JM2K6]

I don't want to wait that long!

[Madness]

Well 2 seasons of only 2 wins should be the end of Jones but it'll cost too much money and at the review Jones will just say "Mate, I was missing lots of injured players, we're going in the right direction, we came 5th last year and 3rd this year, mate" and so they'll sack a coach, again, probably Proudfoot who does seem to have done good things to the scrum and hang onto a poor defence coach and another attach coach who has had no impact.

Can someone remind Jones that we are not Australia and have enough depth that we do not need to play players out of positions, as it comes as no surprise that the players playing their natural position are the ones who seem to be playing better.

His random squad selection is killing us and means we finish a Six nations game with a back row of Simmonds at 8, Dombrandt at 6 and Chessum at 7, how can this happen with the depth of players we have available.

[Hal Jordan]

The back row has been an abortion this 6N. Lawes is a far better lock than a 6 at Test level. I have not been impressed with Simmonds at all, he seems to do very little. Underhill is great at tackling but needs a Curry type next to him if he's going to spend the whole match at the bottom of rucks. Chessum is another 5.5 if you put him in the backrow.

No heft at centre doesn't help, either, you don't get an extra big body on hand when the forwards are catching up.

And asking Genge to run it from full back so one of your tight five is always out of the game when trying to secure ruck ball from a counterattack, genius. I suspect Gleeson had a hand in that, strikes me as a very League thing, bringing a big guy at the line from deep to try and get some yards.

[Kawazaki]

“We’re not quite good enough, I’m disappointed for the fans, disappointed for the players. I obviously haven’t done a good enough job and I acknowledge that. But we’re moving in the right direction.

What is the psychological term for this? Cognitive dissonance? Delusion? Hubris?

[Paddington Bear]

Yeah he has to go unfortunately

[sockwithaticket]

As for Eddie, finishing 3rd shouldn't be allowed to mask yet again only 2 wins and that even at our most coherent (second half last night) we're still barely a threat and look plenty muddled.

The back row has been an abortion this 6N. Lawes is a far better lock than a 6 at Test level. I have not been impressed with Simmonds at all, he seems to do very little. Underhill is great at tackling but needs a Curry type next to him if he's going to spend the whole match at the bottom of rucks. Chessum is another 5.5 if you put him in the backrow.

No heft at centre doesn't help, either, you don't get an extra big body on hand when the forwards are catching up.

And asking Genge to run it from full back so one of your tight five is always out of the game when trying to secure ruck ball from a counterattack, genius. I suspect Gleeson had a hand in that, strikes me as a very League thing, bringing a big guy at the line from deep to try and get some yards.

Harsh on Simmonds I think.

The Genge thing was stupid. It worked once, but it resulted in negative yardage at least twice that I noticed.

[Paddington Bear]

The Genge tactic was fine but it’s a consequence of not picking proper ball carriers.

Back row got absolutely monstered yesterday - can’t remember seeing such clean ball for a team in a tier 1 game.

[Kawazaki]

The Genge carry tactic was straight out of the RL playbook. Trouble is, in RL when you get tackled in front of an your teammates, it doesn't matter.

Can we bury the myth that Eddie Jones is some kind of rugby svengali forever now. He's a fucking chancer who has sold brand Eddie to clueless CEOs for the last 20 years.

[Crash669]

In league that tactic is used from the kick off, usually with the ball taken by the half back/full back who passes to a prop running on from the dead ball line. It make sense for trying to get some meters when the opposition are trying to trap you on your try line.

Like the 40/20 vs 50/22 it makes sense in league and doesn't in Union. Certainly doesn't make sense to have the prop back there for kicks in open play since they'll be knackered and not defending rucks.

[dpedin]

Despite some heroics England were never going to beat France on the day. Some very dodgy tactics from Mr Jones again, only fielding Stewart on wing really worked to some extent. The Genge sitting deep to carry was just silly and so it proved.

I still can't believe Jones isn't building a team for the future around Smith at 10. Smith needs an 8 he knows and plays with regularly (Dombrant) so they can control first phase off back of scrum, a 9 who will provide fast ball from set piece and rucks, a big hard running 12 so he can get over the gain line and provide front foot ball for 2nd phase onwards and a ball playing 13 who he can pair up with when they go wide. Instead he played Simmonds who didnt know what he was doing himself at 8, Youngs who is glacially slow, Slade who didn't really carry up well and Marchant who played well running with the ball but isn't a good distributer of the ball.

Smith is real class, but I am afraid Jones is almost deliberately picking teams that limit rather than play to Smiths strengths and tactics to minimise other teams threats rather than maximising his own teams strengths. He has the players to pick from but doesn't, why I don't know.

[geordie_6]

The back row has been an abortion this 6N. Lawes is a far better lock than a 6 at Test level. I have not been impressed with Simmonds at all, he seems to do very little. Underhill is great at tackling but needs a Curry type next to him if he's going to spend the whole match at the bottom of rucks. Chessum is another 5.5 if you put him in the backrow.

No heft at centre doesn't help, either, you don't get an extra big body on hand when the forwards are catching up.

And asking Genge to run it from full back so one of your tight five is always out of the game when trying to secure ruck ball from a counterattack, genius. I suspect Gleeson had a hand in that, strikes me as a very League thing, bringing a big guy at the line from deep to try and get some yards.

Yes he's definitely a lock as opposed to Jones' much sought after hybrid player. Ignoring the position though, he did well when he came on.

[Monk]

Lawes post-match interview was just weird talking about fitness levels and how England were better in that department - like he was ticking a box Eddie jones had put there

[ASMO]

Lawes post-match interview was just weird talking about fitness levels and how England were better in that department - like he was ticking a box Eddie jones had put there

To be fair Lawes is a bit thick so he will spout whatever shit Eddie has told him to.

[Hugo]

Lawes post-match interview was just weird talking about fitness levels and how England were better in that department - like he was ticking a box Eddie jones had put there

To be fair Lawes is a bit thick so he will spout whatever shit Eddie has told him to.

That plus there is really nothing for an England captain to talk coherently about, certainly not selection, tactics or performances. When you can't defend or explain anything waffling about fitness levels is all you can realistically offer up.

[Paddington Bear]

We’ve just seen what a well resourced union with a serious talent base can achieve when they build a coaching team and structure around their strengths. Beyond Dupont there is absolutely no reason why we can’t have exactly the same

[Hugo]

The Genge carry tactic was straight out of the RL playbook.

Yes it was a gimmick.

[Raggs]

Genge dropping back isn't the first time he's done that, and it's far from the first time that a prop has fulfilled that role. I'd rather have an 8 like Simmonds running back and forth trying to secure rucks and chasing down potential kick returns, than a prop. In addition, Genge is more likely to soak up 2-3 tackles in such a way that he's not at risk of being turned over. Same as when we had Billy V doing it.

It is perhaps an admission that Eddie wasn't sure we could win a typical kicking battle, since there's no need to run it back if you can pin it into the corners/middle better than your opponent, but it's a smart strategy to use overall.

Biggest issue for me was simply support. We don't know when we're planning to offload or when we're planning to ruck, and so we end up not getting either right and get turned over with virtually every half break.

[Paddington Bear]

Sigh.

My overriding feeling is that this has been a wasted opportunity. In among all the negatives we clearly have an ultra competitive side that is hard to play against, and more widely there’s a hell of a lot of talent in this squad. This isn’t Corry or Borthwick’s team where finishing second and turning over the Aussies in the Autumn was be a decent year - this ought to be a team right up there with the best in the world.

Positives:
Tight five has broadly been excellent
Smith’s temperament is clearly international quality
The efforts and passion being shown by the players. Shouldn’t be taken for granted. That Ireland performance was quite something.
Steward for me has played well and tightened us up at the back.

Negatives:
Back row has been a mess. Yesterday was men against boys stuff there, it’s testament to an effective defensive effort that we only conceded the tries we did given the pace and quality of ball France had. All tournament 6/7/8 has struggled to grip the game.
Centres an absolute car crash. The idea of Henry Slade is better than the reality, honestly think we missed Faz which I know is not unanimous here. It’s unfair to expect any coach to ignore Manu but without him 13 has become completely incoherent.
Attack in general. What was the plan? Has any side ever been so unthreatening?
Youngs. AAAAAAGGGGHHHHH. Plumbed new depths.
The bench. The introduction of Youngs/Ford/Daly etc throughout the tournament made us substantially worse without fail.
Simmonds doesn’t look up to it.
Defence of quick plays. We shipped 4? tries due to not reacting fast enough. Unacceptable.

Posted before that I respect Eddie a lot and would judge at the end of the tournament.
The judgement is clear - England have become incoherent, reliant on players well past their best and wasting the performances of those at the height of their powers. I actually understand why you’d want someone more experienced than Randall starting in Paris, but this is Eddie’s fault. In a proper state of affairs he would have brought in Spencer with 60 odd caps under his belt.

Eddie changed up English rugby and 16-19 was great fun, exciting and you saw the purpose. 20 onwards has not been any fun, just grinding mediocrity and three consecutive opening day defeats. I should not end the six nations most satisfied by a defeat at home to Ireland.
He’s run his course and it’s time for a new approach, it’s all tiresome and it isn’t working. I’m fed up of losing to the other home nations on the reg and a grand slam a decade is not a great rate of return.

This is the last feasible moment to change coach before the world cup, I suspect that we won’t. Either way at least our plausible run to the semis is pretty viable.
It’s shit getting hyped up for a tournament and two years running barely fire a shot in it despite having a lot of talent in the squad. Genuinely thought we turned a corner in the autumn, we haven’t.

Deep breaths.

Always next year, only a game, good to have France back etc

Now all that’s left is to wash guinness stains off my England shirt and apologise to my mate who I cockblocked during last night’s game by yelling ‘FUCKING CUNT’ in response to Youngs’ distribution, thumping the table and sending his date’s aperol spritz flying.

[Kawazaki]

Sigh.

My overriding feeling is that this has been a wasted opportunity. In among all the negatives we clearly have an ultra competitive side that is hard to play against, and more widely there’s a hell of a lot of talent in this squad. This isn’t Corry or Borthwick’s team where finishing second and turning over the Aussies in the Autumn was be a decent year - this ought to be a team right up there with the best in the world.

Positives:
Tight five has broadly been excellent
Smith’s temperament is clearly international quality
The efforts and passion being shown by the players. Shouldn’t be taken for granted. That Ireland performance was quite something.
Steward for me has played well and tightened us up at the back.

Negatives:
Back row has been a mess. Yesterday was men against boys stuff there, it’s testament to an effective defensive effort that we only conceded the tries we did given the pace and quality of ball France had. All tournament 6/7/8 has struggled to grip the game.
Centres an absolute car crash. The idea of Henry Slade is better than the reality, honestly think we missed Faz which I know is not unanimous here. It’s unfair to expect any coach to ignore Manu but without him 13 has become completely incoherent.
Attack in general. What was the plan? Has any side ever been so unthreatening?
Youngs. AAAAAAGGGGHHHHH. Plumbed new depths.
The bench. The introduction of Youngs/Ford/Daly etc throughout the tournament made us substantially worse without fail.
Simmonds doesn’t look up to it.
Defence of quick plays. We shipped 4? tries due to not reacting fast enough. Unacceptable.

Posted before that I respect Eddie a lot and would judge at the end of the tournament.
The judgement is clear - England have become incoherent, reliant on players well past their best and wasting the performances of those at the height of their powers. I actually understand why you’d want someone more experienced than Randall starting in Paris, but this is Eddie’s fault. In a proper state of affairs he would have brought in Spencer with 60 odd caps under his belt.

Eddie changed up English rugby and 16-19 was great fun, exciting and you saw the purpose. 20 onwards has not been any fun, just grinding mediocrity and three consecutive opening day defeats. I should not end the six nations most satisfied by a defeat at home to Ireland.
He’s run his course and it’s time for a new approach, it’s all tiresome and it isn’t working. I’m fed up of losing to the other home nations on the reg and a grand slam a decade is not a great rate of return.

This is the last feasible moment to change coach before the world cup, I suspect that we won’t. Either way at least our plausible run to the semis is pretty viable.
It’s shit getting hyped up for a tournament and two years running barely fire a shot in it despite having a lot of talent in the squad. Genuinely thought we turned a corner in the autumn, we haven’t.

Deep breaths.

Always next year, only a game, good to have France back etc

Now all that’s left is to wash guinness stains off my England shirt and apologise to my mate who I cockblocked during last night’s game by yelling ‘FUCKING CUNT’ in response to Youngs’ distribution, thumping the table and sending his date’s aperol spritz flying.

We feel your pain brother.

[pjm1]

Sigh.

My overriding feeling is that this has been a wasted opportunity. In among all the negatives we clearly have an ultra competitive side that is hard to play against, and more widely there’s a hell of a lot of talent in this squad. This isn’t Corry or Borthwick’s team where finishing second and turning over the Aussies in the Autumn was be a decent year - this ought to be a team right up there with the best in the world.

Positives:
Tight five has broadly been excellent
Smith’s temperament is clearly international quality
The efforts and passion being shown by the players. Shouldn’t be taken for granted. That Ireland performance was quite something.
Steward for me has played well and tightened us up at the back.

Negatives:
Back row has been a mess. Yesterday was men against boys stuff there, it’s testament to an effective defensive effort that we only conceded the tries we did given the pace and quality of ball France had. All tournament 6/7/8 has struggled to grip the game.
Centres an absolute car crash. The idea of Henry Slade is better than the reality, honestly think we missed Faz which I know is not unanimous here. It’s unfair to expect any coach to ignore Manu but without him 13 has become completely incoherent.
Attack in general. What was the plan? Has any side ever been so unthreatening?
Youngs. AAAAAAGGGGHHHHH. Plumbed new depths.
The bench. The introduction of Youngs/Ford/Daly etc throughout the tournament made us substantially worse without fail.
Simmonds doesn’t look up to it.
Defence of quick plays. We shipped 4? tries due to not reacting fast enough. Unacceptable.

Posted before that I respect Eddie a lot and would judge at the end of the tournament.
The judgement is clear - England have become incoherent, reliant on players well past their best and wasting the performances of those at the height of their powers. I actually understand why you’d want someone more experienced than Randall starting in Paris, but this is Eddie’s fault. In a proper state of affairs he would have brought in Spencer with 60 odd caps under his belt.

Eddie changed up English rugby and 16-19 was great fun, exciting and you saw the purpose. 20 onwards has not been any fun, just grinding mediocrity and three consecutive opening day defeats. I should not end the six nations most satisfied by a defeat at home to Ireland.
He’s run his course and it’s time for a new approach, it’s all tiresome and it isn’t working. I’m fed up of losing to the other home nations on the reg and a grand slam a decade is not a great rate of return.

This is the last feasible moment to change coach before the world cup, I suspect that we won’t. Either way at least our plausible run to the semis is pretty viable.
It’s shit getting hyped up for a tournament and two years running barely fire a shot in it despite having a lot of talent in the squad. Genuinely thought we turned a corner in the autumn, we haven’t.

Deep breaths.

Always next year, only a game, good to have France back etc

Now all that’s left is to wash guinness stains off my England shirt and apologise to my mate who I cockblocked during last night’s game by yelling ‘FUCKING CUNT’ in response to Youngs’ distribution, thumping the table and sending his date’s aperol spritz flying.

That has cheered me up immensely after watching that shower of shite last night!

[lemonhead]

Sigh.

My overriding feeling is that this has been a wasted opportunity. In among all the negatives we clearly have an ultra competitive side that is hard to play against, and more widely there’s a hell of a lot of talent in this squad. This isn’t Corry or Borthwick’s team where finishing second and turning over the Aussies in the Autumn was be a decent year - this ought to be a team right up there with the best in the world.

Positives:
Tight five has broadly been excellent
Smith’s temperament is clearly international quality
The efforts and passion being shown by the players. Shouldn’t be taken for granted. That Ireland performance was quite something.
Steward for me has played well and tightened us up at the back.

Negatives:
Back row has been a mess. Yesterday was men against boys stuff there, it’s testament to an effective defensive effort that we only conceded the tries we did given the pace and quality of ball France had. All tournament 6/7/8 has struggled to grip the game.
Centres an absolute car crash. The idea of Henry Slade is better than the reality, honestly think we missed Faz which I know is not unanimous here. It’s unfair to expect any coach to ignore Manu but without him 13 has become completely incoherent.
Attack in general. What was the plan? Has any side ever been so unthreatening?
Youngs. AAAAAAGGGGHHHHH. Plumbed new depths.
The bench. The introduction of Youngs/Ford/Daly etc throughout the tournament made us substantially worse without fail.
Simmonds doesn’t look up to it.
Defence of quick plays. We shipped 4? tries due to not reacting fast enough. Unacceptable.

Posted before that I respect Eddie a lot and would judge at the end of the tournament.
The judgement is clear - England have become incoherent, reliant on players well past their best and wasting the performances of those at the height of their powers. I actually understand why you’d want someone more experienced than Randall starting in Paris, but this is Eddie’s fault. In a proper state of affairs he would have brought in Spencer with 60 odd caps under his belt.

Eddie changed up English rugby and 16-19 was great fun, exciting and you saw the purpose. 20 onwards has not been any fun, just grinding mediocrity and three consecutive opening day defeats. I should not end the six nations most satisfied by a defeat at home to Ireland.
He’s run his course and it’s time for a new approach, it’s all tiresome and it isn’t working. I’m fed up of losing to the other home nations on the reg and a grand slam a decade is not a great rate of return.

This is the last feasible moment to change coach before the world cup, I suspect that we won’t. Either way at least our plausible run to the semis is pretty viable.
It’s shit getting hyped up for a tournament and two years running barely fire a shot in it despite having a lot of talent in the squad. Genuinely thought we turned a corner in the autumn, we haven’t.

Deep breaths.

Always next year, only a game, good to have France back etc

Now all that’s left is to wash guinness stains off my England shirt and apologise to my mate who I cockblocked during last night’s game by yelling ‘FUCKING CUNT’ in response to Youngs’ distribution, thumping the table and sending his date’s aperol spritz flying.

Good a reason as any.

And in my umbel opinion, this would frustrate the feck out of me as an England fan. Even when the team's out of sorts and poorly selected all the raw materials are there to make life horrible for any opposition. Would McCall or Baxter go for it, given the right backroom team?

[sockwithaticket]

Sigh.

My overriding feeling is that this has been a wasted opportunity. In among all the negatives we clearly have an ultra competitive side that is hard to play against, and more widely there’s a hell of a lot of talent in this squad. This isn’t Corry or Borthwick’s team where finishing second and turning over the Aussies in the Autumn was be a decent year - this ought to be a team right up there with the best in the world.

Positives:
Tight five has broadly been excellent
Smith’s temperament is clearly international quality
The efforts and passion being shown by the players. Shouldn’t be taken for granted. That Ireland performance was quite something.
Steward for me has played well and tightened us up at the back.

Negatives:
Back row has been a mess. Yesterday was men against boys stuff there, it’s testament to an effective defensive effort that we only conceded the tries we did given the pace and quality of ball France had. All tournament 6/7/8 has struggled to grip the game.
Centres an absolute car crash. The idea of Henry Slade is better than the reality, honestly think we missed Faz which I know is not unanimous here. It’s unfair to expect any coach to ignore Manu but without him 13 has become completely incoherent.
Attack in general. What was the plan? Has any side ever been so unthreatening?
Youngs. AAAAAAGGGGHHHHH. Plumbed new depths.
The bench. The introduction of Youngs/Ford/Daly etc throughout the tournament made us substantially worse without fail.
Simmonds doesn’t look up to it.
Defence of quick plays. We shipped 4? tries due to not reacting fast enough. Unacceptable.

Posted before that I respect Eddie a lot and would judge at the end of the tournament.
The judgement is clear - England have become incoherent, reliant on players well past their best and wasting the performances of those at the height of their powers. I actually understand why you’d want someone more experienced than Randall starting in Paris, but this is Eddie’s fault. In a proper state of affairs he would have brought in Spencer with 60 odd caps under his belt.

Eddie changed up English rugby and 16-19 was great fun, exciting and you saw the purpose. 20 onwards has not been any fun, just grinding mediocrity and three consecutive opening day defeats. I should not end the six nations most satisfied by a defeat at home to Ireland.
He’s run his course and it’s time for a new approach, it’s all tiresome and it isn’t working. I’m fed up of losing to the other home nations on the reg and a grand slam a decade is not a great rate of return.

This is the last feasible moment to change coach before the world cup, I suspect that we won’t. Either way at least our plausible run to the semis is pretty viable.
It’s shit getting hyped up for a tournament and two years running barely fire a shot in it despite having a lot of talent in the squad. Genuinely thought we turned a corner in the autumn, we haven’t.

Deep breaths.

Always next year, only a game, good to have France back etc

Now all that’s left is to wash guinness stains off my England shirt and apologise to my mate who I cockblocked during last night’s game by yelling ‘FUCKING CUNT’ in response to Youngs’ distribution, thumping the table and sending his date’s aperol spritz flying.

I feel like that's on him for bringing her to watch a game with England fans when Ben Youngs is playing.

[sockwithaticket]

Sigh.

My overriding feeling is that this has been a wasted opportunity. In among all the negatives we clearly have an ultra competitive side that is hard to play against, and more widely there’s a hell of a lot of talent in this squad. This isn’t Corry or Borthwick’s team where finishing second and turning over the Aussies in the Autumn was be a decent year - this ought to be a team right up there with the best in the world.

Positives:
Tight five has broadly been excellent
Smith’s temperament is clearly international quality
The efforts and passion being shown by the players. Shouldn’t be taken for granted. That Ireland performance was quite something.
Steward for me has played well and tightened us up at the back.

Negatives:
Back row has been a mess. Yesterday was men against boys stuff there, it’s testament to an effective defensive effort that we only conceded the tries we did given the pace and quality of ball France had. All tournament 6/7/8 has struggled to grip the game.
Centres an absolute car crash. The idea of Henry Slade is better than the reality, honestly think we missed Faz which I know is not unanimous here. It’s unfair to expect any coach to ignore Manu but without him 13 has become completely incoherent.
Attack in general. What was the plan? Has any side ever been so unthreatening?
Youngs. AAAAAAGGGGHHHHH. Plumbed new depths.
The bench. The introduction of Youngs/Ford/Daly etc throughout the tournament made us substantially worse without fail.
Simmonds doesn’t look up to it.
Defence of quick plays. We shipped 4? tries due to not reacting fast enough. Unacceptable.

Posted before that I respect Eddie a lot and would judge at the end of the tournament.
The judgement is clear - England have become incoherent, reliant on players well past their best and wasting the performances of those at the height of their powers. I actually understand why you’d want someone more experienced than Randall starting in Paris, but this is Eddie’s fault. In a proper state of affairs he would have brought in Spencer with 60 odd caps under his belt.

Eddie changed up English rugby and 16-19 was great fun, exciting and you saw the purpose. 20 onwards has not been any fun, just grinding mediocrity and three consecutive opening day defeats. I should not end the six nations most satisfied by a defeat at home to Ireland.
He’s run his course and it’s time for a new approach, it’s all tiresome and it isn’t working. I’m fed up of losing to the other home nations on the reg and a grand slam a decade is not a great rate of return.

This is the last feasible moment to change coach before the world cup, I suspect that we won’t. Either way at least our plausible run to the semis is pretty viable.
It’s shit getting hyped up for a tournament and two years running barely fire a shot in it despite having a lot of talent in the squad. Genuinely thought we turned a corner in the autumn, we haven’t.

Deep breaths.

Always next year, only a game, good to have France back etc

Now all that’s left is to wash guinness stains off my England shirt and apologise to my mate who I cockblocked during last night’s game by yelling ‘FUCKING CUNT’ in response to Youngs’ distribution, thumping the table and sending his date’s aperol spritz flying.

Good a reason as any.

And in my umbel opinion, this would frustrate the feck out of me as an England fan. Even when the team's out of sorts and poorly selected all the raw materials are there to make life horrible for any opposition. Would McCall or Baxter go for it, given the right backroom team?

Baxter's openly said he doesn't want the job, he's aware that what he's done at Exeter doesn't necessarily translate to the international environment where you see your players much more sporadically.

If McCall has designs on Ireland he'd possibly take it to show that he can coach at that level.

[Paddington Bear]

McCall strikes me as the kind of coach who could get a lot out of this England side but I’d be very surprised if he was offered the job.

Ironically with a side playing like it is and 18 months from a world cup this is where you’d probably call for Eddie Jones to take over.

[lemonhead]

Not high profile enough?

Not a monkeys how the decision making process goes but in the system that is, he's about as home grown as you need to get. Long track record, proven success and no coincidence developed a squad that fed the international side the most this last five years.

Well out of the Irish setup and for my money doesn't lose any sleep over it.