The Brexit Thread

[Uncle fester]

They've actually been fucked over for centuries.

Go back to United Irishmen rising. Ulster serfs (forerunner of group 2 above) rose up in rebellion along with the serfs on the rest of the island. Brits got majorly spooked by this development and made some major changes.

1. They realized that leaving the anglo-irish ascendency run the island had been and would continue to be a disaster so this ushered in the act of union. (Basically letting prods run the joint without adult supervision is asking for trouble - see also NI 1922-1972)
2. They knew that if Ulster Presbyterians and Irish Catholics united in rebellion again that they might not win so they stoked up sectarianism to ensure it wouldn't happen in future. Orange order were promoted and expanded massively after the UI rising was put down. You wonder where on earth DUP types get that siege mentality...
3. Ulster serfs continued to be treated badly but as long as they were better off than Catholics, they could be kept under control.

[_Os_]

Jim
In my experience, there's three groups rather than just two in NI. You have 1. middle class unionists like yourself (small U deliberate), 2. working class Protestants who would fall under the banner of "Loyalist" and 3. Catholics/Nationalists/nationalists who despite their differing social groupings tend to be pretty unified when it comes to working towards "big picture" common goals.

Group 2 have been totally left behind by progress and they are pissed, justifiably so to my mind. Group 1 have more in common with a good chunk of group 3 than they do their fellow Protestants in group 2.

I would agree, especially with the loss of manufacturing jobs which would have been Group 2's foundation, although the constitutional issue hasn't impacted that to a large degree (most of the remaining big manufacturers haven't been hit by Brexit, yet). A united Ireland or remaining part of the UK won't change this.

The Unionist parties have largely neglected the needs Group 2 by not encouraging training in new skills or pushing for UK support to encourage FDI (they have in IT but that doesn't help the working classes).

There's one element missing from Uncle Fester's definition that links class to political identity among Unionists. Group 1 are the people most likely to vote Alliance, middle class, have skills, doing well, but the important aspect of their class/economic position is they have minimal attachment to the UK state. What's missing from Uncle Fester's definition of 2, is that there's a lot of upper class and upper middle class Unionists in that group, politically these are the people that are the leaders of that group.

There's two types of middle class, those that derive their class position from state largesse (a high paying government job, government pension from state employment, a heavily subsidised farm), and those that got to where they are through education and usually having technical skills. The reason the leaders of group 2 do not encourage FDI and training in new skills, is because if they did the people that benefited would gravitate from group 2 towards group 1. Someone in a council house on a Loyalist housing estate and living on welfare, is as attached to the UK state as some decidedly not struggling people, and it suits those people that they remain struggling on the Loyalist housing estate and voting for them.

I haven't seen the data, but my perception has been that, if you took two equivalent working class groups, from Nationalist, & Loyalist backgrounds, there's much higher expectation of having a 3rd level education on the Nationalist side ?

I can't remember working with any grads from Group 2, but I've worked with plenty from Group 1.

They've been very poorly served by the Politicians who claim to represent them; but spend more time pissing about with flags & bonfires; rather than making sure their kids get the best possible opportunities.

It's because if you can't rely on the state, then you must rely on yourself and your family and your community (that order). Education is a cultural thing, really valuing it means working on it every day. When you're a child working on it after school and on the weekend, when you're adult working on it into your 20s/30/40s/50s, probably diminishing returns after that. NI Catholics had reduced access to state opportunities for generations, it's no surprise they're better educated now.

Again it's all a bit familiar for any white South African. Back in the 1980s the highest echelon of white SA earners (top 10%) were mostly in state employment, and those privately employed in any form at all were few in number (and in those days, mostly on the mines). So in a typical extended white family every working adult would be working for a state run monopoly (power/telecoms/broadcasting/rail/most sectors were state run), or the security services, or the civil service ... and ultimately it's all connected to the state. University education isn't required for this, so in that extended family maybe one person would have a degree from a middle of the road uni in a technical skill. No one would run a private business, that would've been exceptionally rare. The exception was English speaking whites who were either excluded from this state patronage entirely (depending on province) or faced a glass ceiling, as a result the white private sector that existed was almost all owned by English speakers, all the top unis other than 1 or 2 were English speaking (despite white English speakers being a minority of the white population), and nearly all these people voted for the liberal opposition parties or didn't vote.

What happened to white South Africans was the change was so extreme and abrupt (whites booted out of state employment of all types), that the cultural change was really sharp and immediate. It's common now to have at least one degree, really common to own a small business, very uncommon to be in any form of state employment.

Thinking about it Thatcher's roll back of the British state (privatisation etc) in the 1980s, probably did more to create/grow Uncle Fester's group 1 than anything else. My understanding now is NI farmers are trusting the UK state (hahaha) to pay them the equivalent (or more) of the CAP payments on the same or similar terms forever? Income from these payments isn't insignificant for the NI agricultural sector.

[Hellraiser]

They've actually been fucked over for centuries.

Go back to United Irishmen rising. Ulster serfs (forerunner of group 2 above) rose up in rebellion along with the serfs on the rest of the island. Brits got majorly spooked by this development and made some major changes.

1. They realized that leaving the anglo-irish ascendency run the island had been and would continue to be a disaster so this ushered in the act of union. (Basically letting prods run the joint without adult supervision is asking for trouble - see also NI 1922-1972)
2. They knew that if Ulster Presbyterians and Irish Catholics united in rebellion again that they might not win so they stoked up sectarianism to ensure it wouldn't happen in future. Orange order were promoted and expanded massively after the UI rising was put down. You wonder where on earth DUP types get that siege mentality...
3. Ulster serfs continued to be treated badly but as long as they were better off than Catholics, they could be kept under control.

It's a bit more complex than that. Presbyterians were banned from joining the OO until the 1840s and the order itself was banned from 1823 to 1845 because of it's role in sectarian violence. The real break in Ulster Presbyterianism towards Unionism came in the 1850/60s due to the efforts of a particularly bigoted Presbyterian minster called Henry Cooke. Ulster Presbyterians trended Whig/Liberal up to then and were ambivalent at best about the Union; Cooke was bitterly opposed to Catholic Emancipation and despite being a Presbyterian was opposed to disestablishment of the Church of Ireland. He made a concerted effort from the 1830s to convince Presbyterians to make common cause with the Tory Party due to the Whigs involvement with Daniel O'Connell and to oppose any Papist attempts to have the Act of Union repealed.

[Uncle fester]

Interesting. Where does the famine fit into this timeline in terms of impact?

[tabascoboy]

Govt accused of wasting £120m of taxpayers' money on 'Festival of Brexit'

The Unboxed: Creativity in the UK event - due to take place later this year - is supposed to showcase the best of the country's creativity following its withdrawal from the European Union. But in a scathing report, the Commons Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee said the lack of clear direction was a "recipe for failure" and an "irresponsible use of public money".

The initiative was originally unveiled in 2018 by Theresa May as Festival UK* 2022 - and was subsequently rebranded when Boris Johnson became Prime Minister. The Government has invested £120 million in the event, which is supposed to evoke the spirit of the Great Exhibition of 1851 and the 1951 Festival of Britain.

However the committee said that while ministers had "great ambitions" for it, they had so far failed to communicate a "compelling vision" to the public for a "vague and shape-shifting" event.

Whole story: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/govt-wasting ... of-brexit/

[GogLais]

Govt accused of wasting £120m of taxpayers' money on 'Festival of Brexit'

The Unboxed: Creativity in the UK event - due to take place later this year - is supposed to showcase the best of the country's creativity following its withdrawal from the European Union. But in a scathing report, the Commons Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee said the lack of clear direction was a "recipe for failure" and an "irresponsible use of public money".

The initiative was originally unveiled in 2018 by Theresa May as Festival UK* 2022 - and was subsequently rebranded when Boris Johnson became Prime Minister. The Government has invested £120 million in the event, which is supposed to evoke the spirit of the Great Exhibition of 1851 and the 1951 Festival of Britain.

However the committee said that while ministers had "great ambitions" for it, they had so far failed to communicate a "compelling vision" to the public for a "vague and shape-shifting" event.

Whole story: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/govt-wasting ... of-brexit/

Were we not creative when we were in the EU then?

[dpedin]

I see Whisky Salesman Frost getting a beating in social media for a speech on the NI Protocol and Brexit he made at some university in Switzerland. Why on earth is this unelected bureaucrat who was elevated to the Lords as a pressie from the Blonde Bumblecunt still regarded as anything other than a buffoon? He now spends all his time complaining about the very agreement he negotiated and signed off. An unadulterated twat!

[SaintK]

I see Whisky Salesman Frost getting a beating in social media for a speech on the NI Protocol and Brexit he made at some university in Switzerland. Why on earth is this unelected bureaucrat who was elevated to the Lords as a pressie from the Blonde Bumblecunt still regarded as anything other than a buffoon? He now spends all his time complaining about the very agreement he negotiated and signed off. An unadulterated twat!

Another thick entitled cunt who's full of his own self-importance.

[fishfoodie]

I see Whisky Salesman Frost getting a beating in social media for a speech on the NI Protocol and Brexit he made at some university in Switzerland. Why on earth is this unelected bureaucrat who was elevated to the Lords as a pressie from the Blonde Bumblecunt still regarded as anything other than a buffoon? He now spends all his time complaining about the very agreement he negotiated and signed off. An unadulterated twat!

He's only regarded by the Brexit Press as someone to be listened to; everyone else knows he's a moron.

If any other Country regarded him as useful, he'd have been bombarded with offers to work on other International negotiations, because there's always work for good negotiators. His former employers in the Whisky business are hardly going to take him back, after he decimated their sales in Europe.

[fishfoodie]

Pointed, with a capital "P"

The Taoiseach told Mr Biden: "Ireland stands ready to do everything we possibly can on the humanitarian front and in supporting the broadest and widest sanctions possible to keep the pressure on and to get this war ended."

He also thanked Mr Biden for US support for the Good Friday Agreement.

He praised the "steadfast support", referencing how "important the Good Friday Agreement is in respect of stability and peace on the island of Ireland".

"Over the last number of days as I've been here we've also witnessed, once again, that two-way, very robust economic relationship between the United States and Ireland."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0317/12869 ... ashington/

[Tichtheid]

Pointed, with a capital "P"

The Taoiseach told Mr Biden: "Ireland stands ready to do everything we possibly can on the humanitarian front and in supporting the broadest and widest sanctions possible to keep the pressure on and to get this war ended."

He also thanked Mr Biden for US support for the Good Friday Agreement.

He praised the "steadfast support", referencing how "important the Good Friday Agreement is in respect of stability and peace on the island of Ireland".

"Over the last number of days as I've been here we've also witnessed, once again, that two-way, very robust economic relationship between the United States and Ireland."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0317/12869 ... ashington/

Pointed indeed, given Truss is said to be looking at triggering article 16 now that she's had a good day in the press

[fishfoodie]

Pointed, with a capital "P"

The Taoiseach told Mr Biden: "Ireland stands ready to do everything we possibly can on the humanitarian front and in supporting the broadest and widest sanctions possible to keep the pressure on and to get this war ended."

He also thanked Mr Biden for US support for the Good Friday Agreement.

He praised the "steadfast support", referencing how "important the Good Friday Agreement is in respect of stability and peace on the island of Ireland".

"Over the last number of days as I've been here we've also witnessed, once again, that two-way, very robust economic relationship between the United States and Ireland."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0317/12869 ... ashington/

Pointed indeed, given Truss is said to be looking at triggering article 16 now that she's had a good day in the press

She might be thick, but she isn't Raab thick.

She's just throwing some red meat to the arse holes in group formally known as the ERG, to keep them onside.

[Tichtheid]

Pointed, with a capital "P"



https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0317/12869 ... ashington/

Pointed indeed, given Truss is said to be looking at triggering article 16 now that she's had a good day in the press

She might be thick, but she isn't Raab thick.

She's just throwing some red meat to the arse holes in group formally known as the ERG, to keep them onside.

I hope you are right.

[Flockwitt]

I see you guys have sorted out your compliance markings with the special sub clause for NI. It is of course harmonized with the EU.

[fishfoodie]

He really is the most loathsome, tone deaf, cunt.

[petej]

He really is the most loathsome, tone deaf, cunt.

Yep. Worth remembering that Johnson has spent the last 10 years opposing every attempt to clamp down on the London laundromat. Dropped his security detail to attend an oligarchs bunga bunga party in Italy. Made the son of a KGB agent a lord. Kicked out the grandson of Winston Churchill from the Tory party. Repeatedly blocked the release of the russia report.

[dpedin]

He really is the most loathsome, tone deaf, cunt.

Yep. Worth remembering that Johnson has spent the last 10 years opposing every attempt to clamp down on the London laundromat. Dropped his security detail to attend an oligarchs bunga bunga party in Italy. Made the son of a KGB agent a lord. Kicked out the grandson of Winston Churchill from the Tory party. Repeatedly blocked the release of the russia report.

What makes it worse is they invited the Ukrainian Ambassador to the Conference and he had to listen to this utter shite and not say a thing. Not sure the Blonde Bumblecunt will get the invite he is waiting on for next weeks meeting! If he does he will be told to sit at the back of the class and stay quiet like a very naughty boy.

[Insane_Homer]

So Sunak yesterday confirmed that "Project Fear" was in fact an "inevitable" negative impact of Brexit.

[Line6 HXFX]

Currently a Recruitment drive for a "career" in fruit picking, as they are desperately worried about the picking season,as brexit is still causing a crisis.

So you come off universal credit, go pick fruit for six weeks, then have to save every single penny you earn, picking fruit, to save for the six weeks you will have zero cash... and for the six weeks waiting to go back onto Universal credit.
On top of that, knowing full well you are risking homelessness and sanctions and facing the hostile, shitty welcome back into Universal Credit.when the "cruelty" is turned up to 11.


They are going to have to force people to pick fruit.., probably make them give up absolutely everything, Ukranian style.. from possessions to family, and force them live in tents next to the fields.

[dpedin]

Looks like Brexit wasn't done then! Further delays from UK to implement border controls because .... it will have a huge impact on supply chain into UK. Who would have guessed eh?

[fishfoodie]

This might be the final straw for non-EU countries, & they may start lodging cases with the WTO; as the UK is effectively giving the EU unfettered access to the UK market, without a trade deal in place, & that puts them at a considerable disadvantage.

I don't think Gove ever answered the questions on how many Vets the UK had hired for checks, & they haven't completed half the port facilities that are required. If you aren't even trying to comply with WTO rules, it's very hard to claim it's just Force majeure.

[Tichtheid]

I saw this today wrt to something else but it's a perfect metaphor for Brexit, from the people watching on before it happens in disbelief that someone would do that do themselves to the tears of laugher at someone thinking that kicking yourself in the nuts is a good idea.

"I'll just stay here for a second"

[fishfoodie]

I saw this today wrt to something else but it's a perfect metaphor for Brexit, from the people watching on before it happens in disbelief that someone would do that do themselves to the tears of laugher at someone thinking that kicking yourself in the nuts is a good idea.

"I'll just stay here for a second"

From an Irish perspective, we'd be laughing our asses off at the idiocy of the decision too .... if it didn't fuck us up too.

The only saving grace is that since we joined the EEC, we've been steadily weaning ourselves off our dependency on the UK for our export market, & we've more competent Politicians & have been planning for Brexit from before the Referendum result.

[Insane_Homer]

April Fools!

[fishfoodie]

No you vile cunt. It's because you voted for Brexit, & you voted twice against protecting workers rights.

If there was no Brexit, or no Hard Brexit, there wouldn't be a permanent queue of trucks trying to get into Dover; & if you'd made even a basic effort to protect workers security of employment, P&O wouldn't have been able to sack their UK workers.

I hope someone goes around collecting the plastic bags of shit, & bottles of piss scattered along the highways & byways of Kent, & dumps them on her front doorstep.

[dpedin]

No you vile cunt. It's because you voted for Brexit, & you voted twice against protecting workers rights.

If there was no Brexit, or no Hard Brexit, there wouldn't be a permanent queue of trucks trying to get into Dover; & if you'd made even a basic effort to protect workers security of employment, P&O wouldn't have been able to sack their UK workers.

I hope someone goes around collecting the plastic bags of shit, & bottles of piss scattered along the highways & byways of Kent, & dumps them on her front doorstep.

This in spades! She was too busy to worry about the impact of Brexit trying to protect her sexual predator fucker of a husband. She is the lowest of the low and thick with it too. A twat of the first order of twats.

[Insane_Homer]

[dpedin]

Looks like the Germans didn't really need the UK market so much after all? Also if you read thread they don't want our goods as much either!

[SaintK]

Read it at lunnchtime.
Post it on PR. I'm sure that one or two posters there could give you a very reasoned argument that those numbers are not correct

[tabascoboy]

The U.K. government’s post-Brexit border IT system is broken, adding to chaos at the country's biggest port

A key part of U.K. government’s post-Brexit border IT system is expected to remain out of service until at least Monday, adding to the headache for traders already facing long queues on the way to the country’s busiest port.

The outage affects the Goods Vehicle Movement Service -- which allows companies to file customs forms electronically before they move goods between Britain and the European Union -- Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs said in a statement on Thursday. Firms will be able to use alternative documentation as part of an effort to “ensure minimal disruption,” HMRC said.

The failure adds an extra layer of complication for companies shuttling goods across the English Channel. They had already been facing 20-mile-long lines of trucks on the approach to Dover after P&O ferries suspended sailings.

Without GVMS, firms have to use a different set of forms to get their goods through customs, according to Shane Brennan, chief executive of the Cold Chain Federation, which represents businesses operating frozen and chilled storage distribution vehicles.

“It’s just reinforcing for people -- particularly the European-based haulage operations -- the hassle of dealing with the U.K.,” he said. “It’s going to be a real problem if it carries on and compounds our ongoing problem of having enough capacity to get stuff into the U.K.”

Hauliers say the timing couldn’t be worse, with Easter being one of their busiest periods of the year. P&O has said it is preparing to resume some services from this weekend, a move which may yet ease the crunch at the border.

“Easter is already really tight for capacity,” said Jon Swallow, co-founder of Felixstowe-based Jordon Freight, which moves goods between Britain and the European Union. The GVMS outage “just adds to the problem,” he said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ow-organic

[Insane_Homer]

[derriz]

Read it at lunnchtime.
Post it on PR. I'm sure that one or two posters there could give you a very reasoned argument that those numbers are not correct

I did 2 or 3 weeks ago - which will have been my last post ever to PR I think. You can guess the response and from whom.

To be fair, there's a lot of statistical noise in the monthly numbers and I qualified the numbers accordingly and there has been a change in how the numbers are calculated. Even so, the trend is certainly not looking positive. The ONS will release February's numbers in 3 days time and then we'll see if things are as bad as they look from January's number.

The big problem for the UK is the simple but brutal arithmetic of trade and investment balance. The UK has been able to run a trade deficit for years/decades because there were queues of foreigners willing to make up the difference by investing in the UK - this includes everything from buying property, building factories or purchasing bonds - effectively lending. Unless there is a corresponding increase in inward investment of this type, it can only mean that the UK population on aggregate will have to survive with less foreign goods.

But it's hard to see the pre-Brexit levels of inward investment maintained, never mind increasing, given the way Brexit has cut the UK off from a market of 400m people. In the past, a foreign company given a choice of building a car factory in the UK or Germany, for example, I can well imagine that the UK could tick more boxes. But now these choices are not equivalent - the UK can't compete for FDI earmarked for the EU the way they could in the past - and it used to compete very successfully I might add.

[SaintK]

Read it at lunnchtime.
Post it on PR. I'm sure that one or two posters there could give you a very reasoned argument that those numbers are not correct

I did 2 or 3 weeks ago - which will have been my last post ever to PR I think. You can guess the response and from whom.

To be fair, there's a lot of statistical noise in the monthly numbers and I qualified the numbers accordingly and there has been a change in how the numbers are calculated. Even so, the trend is certainly not looking positive. The ONS will release February's numbers in 3 days time and then we'll see if things are as bad as they look from January's number.

The big problem for the UK is the simple but brutal arithmetic of trade and investment balance. The UK has been able to run a trade deficit for years/decades because there were queues of foreigners willing to make up the difference by investing in the UK - this includes everything from buying property, building factories or purchasing bonds - effectively lending. Unless there is a corresponding increase in inward investment of this type, it can only mean that the UK population on aggregate will have to survive with less foreign goods.

But it's hard to see the pre-Brexit levels of inward investment maintained, never mind increasing, given the way Brexit has cut the UK off from a market of 400m people. In the past, a foreign company given a choice of building a car factory in the UK or Germany, for example, I can well imagine that the UK could tick more boxes. But now these choices are not equivalent - the UK can't compete for FDI earmarked for the EU the way they could in the past - and it used to compete very successfully I might add.

Quite!!
Very well put.

[dpedin]

Forget about 'bad weather' or 'P&O' etc the real reason behind the freight problem at the channel is because the computer says no! Also same reason why UK looking to postpone implementing border checks, they don't want same queues on the French side either. This is a Brexit disaster and we will see impact in availability and prices soon.

[fishfoodie]

Forget about 'bad weather' or 'P&O' etc the real reason behind the freight problem at the channel is because the computer says no! Also same reason why UK looking to postpone implementing border checks, they don't want same queues on the French side either. This is a Brexit disaster and we will see impact in availability and prices soon.

Didn't the EU fine the UK recently, over the UK not properly enforcing the EUs customs borders, & thus allowing China to dump clothing into the EU market ?

Combine that, the promise to break the CTA in a, "limited, & specific way", which the UK still is doing in NI, & it all makes the UK a really shitty place to do trade deals with.

[fishfoodie]

Who'd be a long distance HGV driver ?

Hauliers want priority for perishable goods at Dover


UK hauliers carrying perishable goods say products are losing quality and value as they are forced to sit in long queues to cross into Europe at Dover.

Bad weather, Easter holiday demand and P&O Ferries routes being suspended have all led to congestion around the UK's busiest port.

The British Meat Processors Association says some of its members are currently waiting for 24 hours or more to cross.

The government said traffic management measures were under regular review.

However, a Department for Transport spokesperson gave no indication that there would be a change made for those transporting perishable items.

As well as the other factors causing congestion, which have led to the traffic management system Operation Brock being put in place, there have also been problems with a key IT system for custom checks after Brexit.
...

"Our products have a very short shelf life," company director Graham Eardley told the BBC.

"If we load lamb in the UK on a Monday, we'd expect to deliver that product to Germany on a Tuesday. Now we are seeing delays of 20 to 25 hours to cross the Channel, and the quality and the sale value of that product falls by every hour it is delayed."

Furthermore, haulier regulations mean drivers need to take an 11-hour break when they get to Calais, as they cannot rest while they are in the traffic jam in case they need to move their vehicle. This just adds to the problem.
...

For Mr Eardley, the delays mean losing up to £800 per truck.

He says the abattoirs who use his services are also getting claims for late delivery and loss in value.

"We are paying for the driver to be sitting in the truck not being productive and seeing the loss of the revenue that the vehicle could be making."

Many in the industry argue that hauliers carrying fresh produce should be prioritised for boarding, as they have been before.
...

Part of the frustration is that hauliers feel like tourist traffic in Dover is being prioritised over freight traffic. Mr Eardley says this further undermines morale.

"Are we saying that it's not fair to have Jimmy and Jonny delayed in their car going on holiday, but that it's acceptable to ask drivers to wait 20 hours or more in their cab? Until there is more understanding of drivers and their experience, we are on the road to ruin."

From July this year, the UK will start imposing Brexit controls on meat and dairy goods coming in from the EU. Industry leaders are concerned that this will be yet another crunch time for Dover.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61053402

[Rhubarb & Custard]

From July this year, the UK will start imposing Brexit controls on meat and dairy goods coming in from the EU. Industry leaders are concerned that this will be yet another crunch time for Dover.

As with much of Brexit the planning around this is based on keeping much of how that'll actually work a secret. Still, there is when Boris sated his policy of 'fuck business' that for once he wasn't lying

[dpedin]

From July this year, the UK will start imposing Brexit controls on meat and dairy goods coming in from the EU. Industry leaders are concerned that this will be yet another crunch time for Dover.

As with much of Brexit the planning around this is based on keeping much of how that'll actually work a secret. Still, there is when Boris sated his policy of 'fuck business' that for once he wasn't lying

It won't happen ... systems and processes not in place nor will be and impact on prices and inflation will be enough to bring real concerns and a political own goal. I suspect this will be delayed yet again and the Gov will kick off another fight about NI as a distraction threatening to invoke article 16 yet again, the monthly threat. They are really in the shit in trying to implement Brexit, they know they are in the shit and will do anything, and I mean anything, to avoid Brexit shit hitting the public fan.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

As with much of Brexit the planning around this is based on keeping much of how that'll actually work a secret. Still, there is when Boris sated his policy of 'fuck business' that for once he wasn't lying

It won't happen ... systems and processes not in place nor will be and impact on prices and inflation will be enough to bring real concerns and a political own goal. I suspect this will be delayed yet again and the Gov will kick off another fight about NI as a distraction threatening to invoke article 16 yet again, the monthly threat. They are really in the shit in trying to implement Brexit, they know they are in the shit and will do anything, and I mean anything, to avoid Brexit shit hitting the public fan.

I'd agree it looks really unlikely, but, if that's the case why can't they confirm that? Just wtf is the thinking nobody will notice it it's delayed last minute, and what's the point in directing investment into trying to get ready for events that will no happen or be delayed? It'd help much more if investment was targeted at productivity, but instead we get lies, the denial of reality and the claim of victim status from the executive

[dpedin]

As with much of Brexit the planning around this is based on keeping much of how that'll actually work a secret. Still, there is when Boris sated his policy of 'fuck business' that for once he wasn't lying

It won't happen ... systems and processes not in place nor will be and impact on prices and inflation will be enough to bring real concerns and a political own goal. I suspect this will be delayed yet again and the Gov will kick off another fight about NI as a distraction threatening to invoke article 16 yet again, the monthly threat. They are really in the shit in trying to implement Brexit, they know they are in the shit and will do anything, and I mean anything, to avoid Brexit shit hitting the public fan.

I'd agree it looks really unlikely, but, if that's the case why can't they confirm that? Just wtf is the thinking nobody will notice it it's delayed last minute, and what's the point in directing investment into trying to get ready for events that will no happen or be delayed? It'd help much more if investment was targeted at productivity, but instead we get lies, the denial of reality and the claim of victim status from the executive

Don't disagree with anything you say but you are looking at this logically and objectively. The problem is they are not and will do anything and sacrifice anything to avoid Brexit being seen to be a failure or the root cause of serious problems at the border. They see this as political suicide so will literally spend tons of our cash, sacrifice whole sectors of industry and lie through their back teeth to keep it out of the papers etc. It is collective organisational and political madness but that's the corner the Brexit Ultras have back themselves into and unfortunately there is no going back and out, we will be in this shitshow of a mess for years to come. The financial, social, cost of living, economic and political costs will be huge and unrecoverable.