(No) Exam Results,

[sockwithaticket]

Good to see our cowardly government dealing with the exam shambles today
All gone into hiding and not even the most junior minister available for interview to explain how "robust" and "dependable" the results are

I wonder has anyone tried explaining to the fireplace salesman, just how long it will take to go thru all the appeals for the A-Levels ?

With a bit of luck the GCSE ones will be done by the time those pupils have sat their A-Levels.

A couple of years ago my role would have had me directly involved with that. Theoretically it shouldn't touch me where I am now (testing a new internal system), but I can see it being all hands to the pump. There were emails from mangers floating around last week enquiring as to whether anyone's got spare capacity and might be able to lend a hand if required? I suspect helping out won't be optional for long.

[I like neeps]

The whole thing is a giant shit sandwich, and for once i think the teachers are blameless here.

True, the problem is not all teachers and schools will have played it with a straight bat like Pigsy - What they should have done is try to ascertain how accurate each schools predictions are historically and work on that. I don't know why they didn't just get on and have the exams anyway they will have completed the syllabus and most exams are sat at 2M distances...

Agree OS. And if not you could easy find extra capacity for spill out exam halls. Almost as if it wasn't thought out at all.

[pigsy]

Scarface,

Sadly, I suspect he will be hit no matter what.

It is rather stereotypical that boys leave it late to get going with work, so the evidence trail for them will be much weaker as of March 20th, therefore they will be further down the rankings in the CAG lists.

It was not surprise that boys came out poorly in the A level results, and I suspect it will be even more so for GCSEs for this reason.

[pigsy]

The whole thing is a giant shit sandwich, and for once i think the teachers are blameless here.

True, the problem is not all teachers and schools will have played it with a straight bat like Pigsy - What they should have done is try to ascertain how accurate each schools predictions are historically and work on that. I don't know why they didn't just get on and have the exams anyway they will have completed the syllabus and most exams are sat at 2M distances...

Agree OS. And if not you could easy find extra capacity for spill out exam halls. Almost as if it wasn't thought out at all.

I suspect time and resources is the issue here. Coursework shows that schools are prepared to push the line (cheat, frankly) when it comes to assessments, so it is reasonable for the government to be sceptical. I suspect that there is simply not enough time to be able to unpick each schools CAG submissions.

The route they have taken though has been criminally arbitrary and will leave many feeling that they have not got ahead in life because of other peoples failings (Rimmer from Red Dwarf springs to mind here)

[pigsy]

And there is the screeching U turn:

https://twitter.com/tes/status/1295374828141240324

[Margin__Walker]

Assume the awarding of university places will take some untangling now at some institutions.

[Biffer]

Assume the awarding of university places will take some untangling now at some institutions.

Too late. If they've been knocked back the place will likely have already been taken by someone else.

[Margin__Walker]

Assume the awarding of university places will take some untangling now at some institutions.

Too late. If they've been knocked back the place will likely have already been taken by someone else.

I guess that's the question really. Say Student A had a conditional offer at an Oxbridge College (for example), but they didn't hit the grades on the algorithm and the place was offered to Student B. What now happens a few days later when Student A now has the grades on the revised assessment.

Surely gets very messy. I'm not sure the 'unlucky kid' approach will wash.

But then I've no experience in university admissions...

[Margin__Walker]

What I don't understand is that they've had months to figure this stuff out.

Could they not have given schools an early view of the grades to allow them to appeal and fix the completely batshit examples that have been making the papers.

[pigsy]

Universities over offer assuming some will not get the grades. Most unis have allowed until Sept 7th for pupils to get upgraded. Clearing may be an issue though! Fortunately with so few foreign students this year thereaye be plenty of places for all.

Oxbridge do not go through clearing so places will not have been allocated to other people.

[Sandstorm]

What I don't understand is that they've had months to figure this stuff out.

And they've had about 4 years to figure Brexit out......if you can't spot the incompetence in Parliament from 150 yards, you need to upgrade your guide dog.

[fishfoodie]

What I don't understand is that they've had months to figure this stuff out.

Could they not have given schools an early view of the grades to allow them to appeal and fix the completely batshit examples that have been making the papers.

Maybe there isn't as much money in producing a shit modeler for A-Levels, as there is in not producing a World Class Covid tracking app ?

[Openside]

Assume the awarding of university places will take some untangling now at some institutions.

Too late. If they've been knocked back the place will likely have already been taken by someone else.

I guess that's the question really. Say Student A had a conditional offer at an Oxbridge College (for example), but they didn't hit the grades on the algorithm and the place was offered to Student B. What now happens a few days later when Student A now has the grades on the revised assessment.

Surely gets very messy. I'm not sure the 'unlucky kid' approach will wash.

But then I've no experience in university admissions...

But ultimately why would someone else be offered the place? NO ONE will have done better than expected(which normally happens)

[Lemoentjie]

My niece is involved with this... doesn't this rely on every single teacher in the UK being equally generous to their students? Strange system.

[Openside]

My niece is involved with this... doesn't this rely on every single teacher in the UK being equally generous to their students? Strange system.

It does, it’s not perfect but it’s the best given the extraordinary circumstances. Ultimately you cannot allow an untested person to have their future decided by an algorithm, it will take a few years but if people have got onto a course academically they are unfit for, they will discover that at Uni rather than before. They will find their level over the next few years...

[I like neeps]

Too late. If they've been knocked back the place will likely have already been taken by someone else.

I guess that's the question really. Say Student A had a conditional offer at an Oxbridge College (for example), but they didn't hit the grades on the algorithm and the place was offered to Student B. What now happens a few days later when Student A now has the grades on the revised assessment.

Surely gets very messy. I'm not sure the 'unlucky kid' approach will wash.

But then I've no experience in university admissions...

But ultimately why would someone else be offered the place? NO ONE will have done better than expected(which normally happens)

The problem is say I have an offer to Newcastle for ABB and the algo gives me ABC which Newcastle say no to for the sake of this situation. Then I go to Northumbria through clearing and accept a place. Meanwhile my place at Newcastle is taking by someone who had been made an offer by Durham of AAB but was given ABB and took the Newcastle spot that opened up.

So you now have potentially three students in a spot they wouldn't be with the predicted grades now accepted. Thousands of times over.

[Biffer]

Too late. If they've been knocked back the place will likely have already been taken by someone else.

I guess that's the question really. Say Student A had a conditional offer at an Oxbridge College (for example), but they didn't hit the grades on the algorithm and the place was offered to Student B. What now happens a few days later when Student A now has the grades on the revised assessment.

Surely gets very messy. I'm not sure the 'unlucky kid' approach will wash.

But then I've no experience in university admissions...

But ultimately why would someone else be offered the place? NO ONE will have done better than expected(which normally happens)

Universities over offer - they offer more places than are available as some people will not get their grades.

Some schools have done better than previous years as well so, as with Scotland, the algorithm did increase some grades.

[Lobby]

I guess that's the question really. Say Student A had a conditional offer at an Oxbridge College (for example), but they didn't hit the grades on the algorithm and the place was offered to Student B. What now happens a few days later when Student A now has the grades on the revised assessment.

Surely gets very messy. I'm not sure the 'unlucky kid' approach will wash.

But then I've no experience in university admissions...

But ultimately why would someone else be offered the place? NO ONE will have done better than expected(which normally happens)

Universities over offer - they offer more places than are available as some people will not get their grades.

Some schools have done better than previous years as well so, as with Scotland, the algorithm did increase some grades.

Grades increased in all types of schools, even after the application of the algorithm to moderate the generous grades given by teacher assessments. The grade increase pre-moderation is about 12% on last year's results. Moderation was intended to bring this increase back to a more realistic 2%, but we are now simply going with the teacher assessments.

[SaintK]

Nothing to do with me guv. We had constant "reassurances" and I didn't no anything about it until last weekend
https://twitter.com/i/status/1295648617072599040

Nicholas Soames less than impressed

What could have been in the Prime Minister’s mind that led him to appoint so mere,so unreliable ,so wholly unsuitable a man to one of the most important jobs in Government #AcatastrophicmisjudgementWilliamsonMUSTGO

[sockwithaticket]

Too late. If they've been knocked back the place will likely have already been taken by someone else.

I guess that's the question really. Say Student A had a conditional offer at an Oxbridge College (for example), but they didn't hit the grades on the algorithm and the place was offered to Student B. What now happens a few days later when Student A now has the grades on the revised assessment.

Surely gets very messy. I'm not sure the 'unlucky kid' approach will wash.

But then I've no experience in university admissions...

But ultimately why would someone else be offered the place? NO ONE will have done better than expected(which normally happens)

That's simply not true. Plenty of grades have gone up as well as down.

[sockwithaticket]

But ultimately why would someone else be offered the place? NO ONE will have done better than expected(which normally happens)

Universities over offer - they offer more places than are available as some people will not get their grades.

Some schools have done better than previous years as well so, as with Scotland, the algorithm did increase some grades.

Grades increased in all types of schools, even after the application of the algorithm to moderate the generous grades given by teacher assessments. The grade increase pre-moderation is about 12% on last year's results. Moderation was intended to bring this increase back to a more realistic 2%, but we are now simply going with the teacher assessments.

Which is being completely lost in the media's frenzy to present this as a national catastrophe and drive the story. Whether or not moderation was implemented properly, it's entirely a necessary step because too many centres were inflating likely grades.

[Sandstorm]

[Hal Jordan]

Nothing to do with me guv. We had constant "reassurances" and I didn't no anything about it until last weekend
https://twitter.com/i/status/1295648617072599040

Nicholas Soames less than impressed

What could have been in the Prime Minister’s mind that led him to appoint so mere,so unreliable ,so wholly unsuitable a man to one of the most important jobs in Government #AcatastrophicmisjudgementWilliamsonMUSTGO

Fatty Soames is likely less than impressed with Johnson's continuing efforts to be seen as Churchillian.

Although given the family ties to Serco, Soames should be an expert judge on unsuitability and unreliability.

[Openside]

I guess that's the question really. Say Student A had a conditional offer at an Oxbridge College (for example), but they didn't hit the grades on the algorithm and the place was offered to Student B. What now happens a few days later when Student A now has the grades on the revised assessment.

Surely gets very messy. I'm not sure the 'unlucky kid' approach will wash.

But then I've no experience in university admissions...

But ultimately why would someone else be offered the place? NO ONE will have done better than expected(which normally happens)

The problem is say I have an offer to Newcastle for ABB and the algo gives me ABC which Newcastle say no to for the sake of this situation. Then I go to Northumbria through clearing and accept a place. Meanwhile my place at Newcastle is taking by someone who had been made an offer by Durham of AAB but was given ABB and took the Newcastle spot that opened up.

So you now have potentially three students in a spot they wouldn't be with the predicted grades now accepted. Thousands of times over.

yes, but it will all trickle upwards as that person will hot foot it back to durham leaving the slot at Newcastle free

[fishfoodie]

Nothing to do with me guv. We had constant "reassurances" and I didn't no anything about it until last weekend
https://twitter.com/i/status/1295648617072599040

Nicholas Soames less than impressed

What could have been in the Prime Minister’s mind that led him to appoint so mere,so unreliable ,so wholly unsuitable a man to one of the most important jobs in Government #AcatastrophicmisjudgementWilliamsonMUSTGO

He was probably thinking something along the lines of:

"what clueless, non-entity can I put in Education ?; someone I can rely not to trouble the whip, & who wouldn't dream of challenging me."

It's ironic the way Political leaders regularly spout on about what assets children are to the future of the Country; & then immediately turn around & put complete cretins, or in the case of Gove; malignant cunts; in charge of their education.

[ScarfaceClaw]

But ultimately why would someone else be offered the place? NO ONE will have done better than expected(which normally happens)

The problem is say I have an offer to Newcastle for ABB and the algo gives me ABC which Newcastle say no to for the sake of this situation. Then I go to Northumbria through clearing and accept a place. Meanwhile my place at Newcastle is taking by someone who had been made an offer by Durham of AAB but was given ABB and took the Newcastle spot that opened up.

So you now have potentially three students in a spot they wouldn't be with the predicted grades now accepted. Thousands of times over.

yes, but it will all trickle upwards as that person will hot foot it back to durham leaving the slot at Newcastle free

Assuming that the spot at Durham is still available or that they might decide to in Geordie land. Can’t necessarily hot foot back to a place that someone is still in.

[Openside]

The problem is say I have an offer to Newcastle for ABB and the algo gives me ABC which Newcastle say no to for the sake of this situation. Then I go to Northumbria through clearing and accept a place. Meanwhile my place at Newcastle is taking by someone who had been made an offer by Durham of AAB but was given ABB and took the Newcastle spot that opened up.

So you now have potentially three students in a spot they wouldn't be with the predicted grades now accepted. Thousands of times over.

yes, but it will all trickle upwards as that person will hot foot it back to durham leaving the slot at Newcastle free

Assuming that the spot at Durham is still available or that they might decide to in Geordie land. Can’t necessarily hot foot back to a place that someone is still in.

Obviously, but who will have taken the Durham spot someone rejected by Oxford? Who will immediately start banging on Oxfords door...

[ScarfaceClaw]

And on GCSE day ... fecking gmail is down and school can’t get the results sent out. FFS.

[SaintK]

Gove and Cumming's mates deeply involved in this shit show
They appear to have failed as miserably as Williamson. Hope their invoice hasn't been paid

A company run by long–term associates of Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings has been working behind the scenes with the exams agency Ofqual on its disastrous strategy for determining A-level results, the Guardian can reveal.

Public First, a policy and research firm owned by James Frayne and Rachel Wolf, who both formerly worked for Gove, has been involved on the project with Ofqual since June after being granted a contract that was not put out to competitive tender.

Details of the contract have not been made public and Ofqual declined to say how much public money had been spent hiring Public First.


Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more
The firm is understood to have been initially contracted to assist Ofqual with communicating its A-level and GSCE results plan to help secure public confidence in the strategy.

A spokesperson for Ofqual said it initially contracted Public First without a tender to work on “insight on public opinion for this year’s exam arrangements”. The spokesperson added: “Public First is currently assisting Ofqual’s small communications team with an unprecedented amount of media interest in a complex policy area.”

Wolf, a former adviser to Gove when he was shadow education secretary, is one of several staff from Public First who are understood to have worked with Ofqual on the approach to the awarding of A-level, BTec and GCSE grades for students, who were unable to take their exams due to the Covid-19 school closures.

[ScarfaceClaw]

Was just reading that. Another non competitive tender to mates of Gove and Cummings.

How the fuck do I get on this corruption gravy train.

[.OverThere]

Gove and Cumming's mates deeply involved in this shit show
They appear to have failed as miserably as Williamson. Hope their invoice hasn't been paid

A company run by long–term associates of Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings has been working behind the scenes with the exams agency Ofqual on its disastrous strategy for determining A-level results, the Guardian can reveal.

Public First, a policy and research firm owned by James Frayne and Rachel Wolf, who both formerly worked for Gove, has been involved on the project with Ofqual since June after being granted a contract that was not put out to competitive tender.

Details of the contract have not been made public and Ofqual declined to say how much public money had been spent hiring Public First.


Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more
The firm is understood to have been initially contracted to assist Ofqual with communicating its A-level and GSCE results plan to help secure public confidence in the strategy.

A spokesperson for Ofqual said it initially contracted Public First without a tender to work on “insight on public opinion for this year’s exam arrangements”. The spokesperson added: “Public First is currently assisting Ofqual’s small communications team with an unprecedented amount of media interest in a complex policy area.”

Wolf, a former adviser to Gove when he was shadow education secretary, is one of several staff from Public First who are understood to have worked with Ofqual on the approach to the awarding of A-level, BTec and GCSE grades for students, who were unable to take their exams due to the Covid-19 school closures.

I see they're a professional political spin bullshit company.
They don't seem to be any good.

[Blackmac]

I cannot understand why the teachers seem to be getting away without any criticism during this. I appreciate it is a difficult situation but the grade inflation is ridiculous and reflects terribly on the integrity of their assessments.

[ASMO]

It's not that bloody hard to be fair, just look at the last 5 years predicted vs actual grades for each school, you will then easily spot schools that are inflating grades, then apply a simple formula based on actual historical results and you will somewhere pretty close.

[fishfoodie]

I cannot understand why the teachers seem to be getting away without any criticism during this. I appreciate it is a difficult situation but the grade inflation is ridiculous and reflects terribly on the integrity of their assessments.

Teachers only see the pupils in their own school. They can only really grade on the curve of all their own pupils, & maybe reference previous years, & make some arbitrary adjustment, along the lines of; this year is better than last, & last year got 3x A+, so I think this year we're on for 5x A+s

Add to that the constant changing of curriculums, & it's very hard for them to do anything but tell you their best & worst students.

[Bimbowomxn]

I cannot understand why the teachers seem to be getting away without any criticism during this. I appreciate it is a difficult situation but the grade inflation is ridiculous and reflects terribly on the integrity of their assessments.

Teachers only see the pupils in their own school. They can only really grade on the curve of all their own pupils, & maybe reference previous years, & make some arbitrary adjustment, along the lines of; this year is better than last, & last year got 3x A+, so I think this year we're on for 5x A+s

Add to that the constant changing of curriculums, & it's very hard for them to do anything but tell you their best & worst students.

Grade predictions are key to a teachers job. If of course it was impossible as you’ve stated then they should have refused the task.

[Blackmac]

I cannot understand why the teachers seem to be getting away without any criticism during this. I appreciate it is a difficult situation but the grade inflation is ridiculous and reflects terribly on the integrity of their assessments.

Teachers only see the pupils in their own school. They can only really grade on the curve of all their own pupils, & maybe reference previous years, & make some arbitrary adjustment, along the lines of; this year is better than last, & last year got 3x A+, so I think this year we're on for 5x A+s

Add to that the constant changing of curriculums, & it's very hard for them to do anything but tell you their best & worst students.

I don't doubt they were served a shit sandwich but some schools are nearing a 40% increase in year on year grades. Someone has to answer for that.

[fishfoodie]

I cannot understand why the teachers seem to be getting away without any criticism during this. I appreciate it is a difficult situation but the grade inflation is ridiculous and reflects terribly on the integrity of their assessments.

Teachers only see the pupils in their own school. They can only really grade on the curve of all their own pupils, & maybe reference previous years, & make some arbitrary adjustment, along the lines of; this year is better than last, & last year got 3x A+, so I think this year we're on for 5x A+s

Add to that the constant changing of curriculums, & it's very hard for them to do anything but tell you their best & worst students.

I don't doubt they were served a shit sandwich but some schools are nearing a 40% increase in year on year grades. Someone has to answer for that.

Yeah, the increase was probably the Teachers taking a bit of a punt, because they spent a lot less time with this years class; & knew they couldn't accurately predict, so they preferred to round up grades, & let the Algorithm take the pain of resetting them. Hospital pass might be a better analogy than punt come to think about it.

This year was always going to be a shit sandwich; & that's why the Education Dept should have been doing their damnedest to anticipate this, & model what the final results mix would be, so they could tweak it if necessary, & avoid the obvious stuff, core subjects getting hammered, & the niche subjects not getting touched.

[Jambanja]

So my niece got an A* and 3 A’s for her A levels and my nephew got 10 A* for his GCSE’s, am I allowed to be proud of them or is there some underhandedness at play here

[pigsy]

As a colleague of mine quite aptly put it:

Lets say you have 10 pupils who the data says could/should get an A grade. You know, based upon experience, that a few of these will not hit that mark for various reasons (topics that come up, how they are feeling on the day, misinterpreting a question etc etc) and the historical data backs this up. However, from the data of the pupils alone you cannot tell which pupils will miss the mark. There are always surprises on results day, in both directions.

That being said, some schools will obviously have plain cheated on their CAGs.

Jambanja: Yes, your niece and nephew should be proud as they have produced the data and track record in their subjects over time to be awarded those grades. They will have deserved it. If you are lazy or a doughnut would not have been awarded top grades (unless the school was really cheaty).
That being said, getting straight A* or 9s is easier in this situation as you don't have the sheer slog of having to produce again and again for every exam.

[SaintK]

First blood to Williamson!

The head of England’s exam regulator, Sally Collier, has resigned over the exams fiasco that has engulfed schools and universities.
Collier, the chief regulator and Ofqual chief executive, oversaw the development of the flawed exams algorithm that was scrapped after it downgraded nearly 40% of A-level results. It came after ministers insisted on avoiding grade inflation.
She had been conspicuous by her absence since the U-turn on results last week, with Ofqual’s chair, Roger Taylor, issuing a public apology instead.
Collier’s resignation comes days after the publication of millions of GCSE results and a day after Gavin Williamson insisted Ofqual had his “full confidence”. He had previously refused to back Collier.