The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[KingBlairhorn]

So, winner of the 1872 gets champs cup. Loser gets sissy cup and Leinster in the quarters. Big game.

[Slick]

Acchhh.

Whoever the Irish commentator was he was absolutely 100% right at the end there, Edinburgh have no one to control the game when things are going badly.

That’s not a dig at anyone in particular, it’s a team thing

[Tichtheid]

That last few minutes was everything annoying about that game. The tryline is the offside line Ben, it’s not hard to see the defenders are over it.

Ulster were standing at the side of the fucking ruck and tackling Edinburgh players who didn't have the opportunity to take a step

It's an easy game when it's like that

[KingBlairhorn]

On the upside, ladies are 6 up against Ireland with 8 mins to play.

[KingBlairhorn]

That last few minutes was everything annoying about that game. The tryline is the offside line Ben, it’s not hard to see the defenders are over it.

Ulster were standing at the side of the fucking ruck and tackling Edinburgh players who didn't have the opportunity to take a step

It's an easy game when it's like that

True, but when you are 80+ minutes into a game where the ref is playing that way, why continue to smash the brick wall? Bennett showed you can do something else in advantage which they had several times. It’s kind of brainless.

[Tichtheid]

Acchhh.

Whoever the Irish commentator was he was absolutely 100% right at the end there, Edinburgh have no one to control the game when things are going badly.

That’s not a dig at anyone in particular, it’s a team thing

Ferris?

You're having a laugh, he doesn't sit there for 80 minutes bellowing AAAHHHLLLSTAAAAR , AAAHHHLLLSTAAAAR for the whole game anymore but he is no less one-eyed, he's learned to tone it down a notch but he's no different

[Tichtheid]

That last few minutes was everything annoying about that game. The tryline is the offside line Ben, it’s not hard to see the defenders are over it.

Ulster were standing at the side of the fucking ruck and tackling Edinburgh players who didn't have the opportunity to take a step

It's an easy game when it's like that

True, but when you are 80+ minutes into a game where the ref is playing that way, why continue to smash the brick wall? Bennett showed you can do something else in advantage which they had several times. It’s kind of brainless.

Agreed, they said Damo was out on his own on the wing. Kinghorn should have called it but we don't know who has the final say on the park, in that situation I'd say it was Gilchrist and he's only going to go one way because the stats tell the coaches that smashing the line is more successful than playing wide

[KingBlairhorn]

On the upside, ladies are 6 up against Ireland with 8 mins to play.

Bollocks.

[Slick]

Acchhh.

Whoever the Irish commentator was he was absolutely 100% right at the end there, Edinburgh have no one to control the game when things are going badly.

That’s not a dig at anyone in particular, it’s a team thing

Ferris?

You're having a laugh, he doesn't sit there for 80 minutes bellowing AAAHHHLLLSTAAAAR , AAAHHHLLLSTAAAAR for the whole game anymore but he is no less one-eyed, he's learned to tone it down a notch but he's no different

Well that doesn’t really matter, he was bang on with that

[Biffer]

Pretty shite weekend for Scottish rugby there.

[Yr Alban]

Pretty shite weekend for Scottish rugby there.

Yup. Everything that could have gone wrong, duly did.

[Tichtheid]

Acchhh.

Whoever the Irish commentator was he was absolutely 100% right at the end there, Edinburgh have no one to control the game when things are going badly.

That’s not a dig at anyone in particular, it’s a team thing

Ferris?

You're having a laugh, he doesn't sit there for 80 minutes bellowing AAAHHHLLLSTAAAAR , AAAHHHLLLSTAAAAR for the whole game anymore but he is no less one-eyed, he's learned to tone it down a notch but he's no different

Well that doesn’t really matter, he was bang on with that

He was bang wrong with that, Edinburgh looked much more in control with Pyrgos on the park

[weegie01]

Well that was a game Edinburgh lost.

Edinburgh look great when other teams leave them gaps to exploit. When teams don't do this, and / or when they harry Edinburgh so they have no time on the ball, Edinburgh can't impose their will, the composure goes, and everything goes wrong. I was wanting Pyrgos on long before he did arrive as he is the one player who seems to play heads up rugby and plays what is in front of him as opposed to what he'd like to be in front of him.

Rarely have I heard a ref get such pelters form the crowd. Though perhaps I should say the ref team as the ARs were hopeless. They are not why Edinburgh lost, and are in fact a symptom of the issue. Edinburgh were not getting the calls they expected, so rather than adjust kept getting pinged.

The biggest issue from the night could be the injuries. Blair now has to decide whether to go full noise for Wasps, or hold players back for the 1872. I am not sure there are enough players left in some positions to do this.

[Slick]

Ferris?

You're having a laugh, he doesn't sit there for 80 minutes bellowing AAAHHHLLLSTAAAAR , AAAHHHLLLSTAAAAR for the whole game anymore but he is no less one-eyed, he's learned to tone it down a notch but he's no different

Well that doesn’t really matter, he was bang on with that

He was bang wrong with that, Edinburgh looked much more in control with Pyrgos on the park

Agree with the 2nd bit. Kinghorn looks a lot more comfortable with him at 9 as well

[Slick]

Well that doesn’t really matter, he was bang on with that

He was bang wrong with that, Edinburgh looked much more in control with Pyrgos on the park

Agree with the 2nd bit. Kinghorn looks a lot more comfortable with him at 9 as well

But then this all leads back to the Kinghorn conundrum.

You can’t play him and the first choice 9 together because neither can control the game. Then you have the best 15 in the squad playing on the wing to accommodate Jaco and then have the 10 and 15 swapping round in attack and defence because one or other isn’t trusted. It’s a lot of disruption for pretty limited impact

[weegie01]

I mentioned recently that van der Walt was playing well, and last night was another example imho. He has come back into the form he showed season before last after a terrible loss of form.

I noticed Tichtheid complimenting Dean elsewhere. I thought he spent far too much time going sideways and taking room away from those outside, who then got the ball with a reception committee.

Lastly, I have never heard an Edinburgh crowd get behind the team the way they did at the end.

[Tichtheid]

Something I didn’t notice at the time but made me laugh when I read it on the Embra forum, when Mark Bennett chipped over the Ulster defence, ran through and scored, Whitehouse ask the tmo if he was onside, ie behind the kicker

[Jock42]

I was wanting Pyrgos on long before he did arrive as he is the one player who seems to play heads up rugby and plays what is in front of him as opposed to what he'd like to be in front of him.

I like Vellacotts energy and speed but I lost count of how many times he tripped or slipped trying to keep the intensity up.

Rarely have I heard a ref get such pelters form the crowd. Though perhaps I should say the ref team as the ARs were hopeless. They are not why Edinburgh lost, and are in fact a symptom of the issue. Edinburgh were not getting the calls they expected, so rather than adjust kept getting pinged.

I get where you're coming from but this wasn't a lack of adjustment to a refs interpretation. It was a woefully abject performance from them all. I'm still annoyed that the first two penalties after half time were against Edinburgh for being offside.

Part of me wishes Cockerill was still in post for his dig at them.

[robmatic]

I mentioned recently that van der Walt was playing well, and last night was another example imho. He has come back into the form he showed season before last after a terrible loss of form.

I noticed Tichtheid complimenting Dean elsewhere. I thought he spent far too much time going sideways and taking room away from those outside, who then got the ball with a reception committee.

Lastly, I have never heard an Edinburgh crowd get behind the team the way they did at the end.

Jaco's a decent option to have at full back, I think. He's solid defensively and is another ball player when he comes into the line. He might not be as good as Boffelli there, but not many are I reckon.

I am wondering what's happened with Kinghorn's kicking to touch recently. I always thought that was one of his strengths but he's gone very conservative and we are having attacking line outs on the 22 instead of the 5 metre line as a result.

[weegie01]

I am wondering what's happened with Kinghorn's kicking to touch recently. I always thought that was one of his strengths but he's gone very conservative and we are having attacking line outs on the 22 instead of the 5 metre line as a result.

I could not agree more. He used to miss the occasional kick to touch, and now he never does because he is so conservative. There has to be a happy medium where some risk is taken but a greater reward is achieved.

[Slick]

I think it’s time to end the experiment with Kinghorn to be honest.

I certainly don’t blame anyone for trying because he has all the skills, but he just doesn’t have the instinct or temperament to be a top class 10 as is shown time and time again against good opposition. Are we seriously considering going into the WC being one pint or injury to Finn promoting Kinghorn to starting 10? That worries me a lot.

As I said in a previous post, the amount of disruption to the Edinburgh team that is needed to have him at 10 just doesn’t work for me, not to mention the fact that young guys like Chamberlain have barely touched a ball this season so we have no idea what might come through

From a Scotland perspective I think it was crazy that he was being picked ahead in of Hastings who is clearly our number 2 (I’d have had him starting the last 3 6N games). Hastings needs to be loved and this whole experience was devastating for him.

What to do with him then? I don’t know. Wing with a game plan to get him coming in at first receiver more often. Try 13 - although I don’t think his defence is up to that. May he is just going to have to be that wildly talented utility back that starts on the bench.

Either way, time to move on I think

[Big D]

I think it’s time to end the experiment with Kinghorn to be honest.

I certainly don’t blame anyone for trying because he has all the skills, but he just doesn’t have the instinct or temperament to be a top class 10 as is shown time and time again against good opposition. Are we seriously considering going into the WC being one pint or injury to Finn promoting Kinghorn to starting 10? That worries me a lot.

As I said in a previous post, the amount of disruption to the Edinburgh team that is needed to have him at 10 just doesn’t work for me, not to mention the fact that young guys like Chamberlain have barely touched a ball this season so we have no idea what might come through

From a Scotland perspective I think it was crazy that he was being picked ahead in of Hastings who is clearly our number 2 (I’d have had him starting the last 3 6N games). Hastings needs to be loved and this whole experience was devastating for him.

What to do with him then? I don’t know. Wing with a game plan to get him coming in at first receiver more often. Try 13 - although I don’t think his defence is up to that. May he is just going to have to be that wildly talented utility back that starts on the bench.

Either way, time to move on I think

Townsend was quite clear on Hastings, he was given things to work on after the AIs and he then got benched by Gloucester. If that is devastating for him rather than him seeing that as a wake up call then sorry but that is how it works. He is playing better now so should come back in, maybe he needed it.

Chamberlain isn't going to make it at Edinburgh. Savala is the 3rd choice and Chamberlain hasn't really impressed in the rainbow cup or the S6 (in the little I have seen).

The Kinghorn experiment is really in it's infancy, and pairing two half backs lacking game control doesn't take pressure off of either them. There have been ups and downs for Kinghorn at 10 and he has lots to work on but his threat has helped create space out wide for the likes of Bennett and the back 3. It hasn't been wholly successful but I don't think it has been a failure either.

If he moves, I think it will be to 15 and he'll do well there. Moyano is about to turn 32 so will probably leave after his contract is up next summer and I am not completely sold on Immelmann.

[robmatic]

The Kinghorn experiment is really in it's infancy, and pairing two half backs lacking game control doesn't take pressure of either of them. There have been ups and downs for Kinghorn at 10 and he has lots to work on but his threat has helped create space out wide for the likes of Bennett and the back 3. It hasn't been wholly successful but I don't think it has been a failure either.

This is where I am on the issue. I don't think it really helps him when Vellacott is the first choice 9, who is great for a high tempo game but not so much when the team needs to be patient.

[Slick]

The Kinghorn experiment is really in it's infancy, and pairing two half backs lacking game control doesn't take pressure of either of them. There have been ups and downs for Kinghorn at 10 and he has lots to work on but his threat has helped create space out wide for the likes of Bennett and the back 3. It hasn't been wholly successful but I don't think it has been a failure either.

This is where I am on the issue. I don't think it really helps him when Vellacott is the first choice 9, who is great for a high tempo game but not so much when the team needs to be patient.

It definitely hasn’t been a total failure and I still look forward to watching him but, IMO, he isn’t going to get any better and at the moment it’s not good enough.

As I said, it’s not that he’s lacking skills but that he’s lacking the instinct and temperament for a 10 and you can’t really teach those.

[westport]

Well I am going the the Wasps game, should be a cracker

[Biffer]

Edinburgh would have won fewer games with anyone else at ten this year. He's played what, 20 Pro games at fly half? I thought we criticised our teams for giving up on things too quick ckly?

[Slick]

Edinburgh would have won fewer games with anyone else at ten this year. He's played what, 20 Pro games at fly half? I thought we criticised our teams for giving up on things too quick ckly?

Sorry, but that’s a nonsense statement, we’ve no idea how many games we would have won with someone else at 10. Anyway, the point is he has looked OK against average opponents but for Scotland and now we are getting to the pointy end of the season he is not having any impact.

If I thought it would work out long term I’d be supportive, but I don’t think it will and it’s causing too much disruption

[KingBlairhorn]

Another bunch of Glasgow players leaving which now brings the total to 10. Hamish Bain and Tom Lambert are both a surprise (to me). I thought both are young enough and have shown enough that they would be worth retaining.

A total of 10 have now been confirmed as leaving. Given most have barely played, Glasgow would probably be better served replacing them with 4-6 better players than another 10 who make zero impact IMO.

Edit: the leavers are Horne, McCallum, Grigg, Bain, Stewart, Fergusson, Lambert, McQuillan, Harley, McDonald.

[Tichtheid]

I don't see a scenario where Blair and Toonie give up on the Kinghorn to ten move, it's not an experiment any more.

I expect to see him start against Chile and probably at least back up Finn against Argentina, maybe start in one of the tests.

[Slick]

I don't see a scenario where Blair and Toonie give up on the Kinghorn to ten move, it's not an experiment any more.

I expect to see him start against Chile and probably at least back up Finn against Argentina, maybe start in one of the tests.

I think you are right. I also think it’s wrong

[GrahamWa]

I don't see a scenario where Blair and Toonie give up on the Kinghorn to ten move, it's not an experiment any more.

I expect to see him start against Chile and probably at least back up Finn against Argentina, maybe start in one of the tests.

I think you are right. I also think it’s wrong

I think Finn will stay home and we'll have Kinghorn and Thompson. Hopefully after that he'll revert to 15.

[KingBlairhorn]

I don't see a scenario where Blair and Toonie give up on the Kinghorn to ten move, it's not an experiment any more.

I expect to see him start against Chile and probably at least back up Finn against Argentina, maybe start in one of the tests.

I think you are right. I also think it’s wrong

I think Finn will stay home and we'll have Kinghorn and Thompson. Hopefully after that he'll revert to 15.

I think Thompson will start ve chile. I think Hastings and Kinghorn will share the Argentine tests.

[fishfoodie]

Another bunch of Glasgow players leaving which now brings the total to 10. Hamish Bain and Tom Lambert are both a surprise (to me). I thought both are young enough and have shown enough that they would be worth retaining.

A total of 10 have now been confirmed as leaving. Given most have barely played, Glasgow would probably be better served replacing them with 4-6 better players than another 10 who make zero impact IMO.

Edit: the leavers are Horne, McCallum, Grigg, Bain, Stewart, Fergusson, Lambert, McQuillan, Harley, McDonald.

Another downside of having just the two sides. If you're not getting you spot, are you going to join the queue in the other team, or bugger off down South ?

Connacht has, & continues to profit from players getting fed up waiting for their chance in Leinster, or Munster

[Big D]

Moyano and Immelman done for the season.

[Jock42]

Hopefully Graham back this week then.

[Big D]

I think you are right. I also think it’s wrong

I think Finn will stay home and we'll have Kinghorn and Thompson. Hopefully after that he'll revert to 15.

I think Thompson will start ve chile. I think Hastings and Kinghorn will share the Argentine tests.

Nah let's get folk capped :-)
Chapman
Fin Smith
Roebuck
Hutchinson
Dingwall
McLean
Arundell

I am of course kidding but Townsend should be speaking to some of those guys.

[KingBlairhorn]

I think Finn will stay home and we'll have Kinghorn and Thompson. Hopefully after that he'll revert to 15.

I think Thompson will start ve chile. I think Hastings and Kinghorn will share the Argentine tests.

Nah let's get folk capped :-)
Chapman
Fin Smith
Roebuck
Hutchinson
Dingwall
McLean
Arundell

I am of course kidding but Townsend should be speaking to some of those guys.

Not sold on Chapman - he's not that good. Hutchinson and McLean are already capped. The rest would all be good pickups, but I would say none are likely.

[Big D]

I think Thompson will start ve chile. I think Hastings and Kinghorn will share the Argentine tests.

Nah let's get folk capped :-)
Chapman
Fin Smith
Roebuck
Hutchinson
Dingwall
McLean
Arundell

I am of course kidding but Townsend should be speaking to some of those guys.

Not sold on Chapman - he's not that good. Hutchinson and McLean are already capped. The rest would all be good pickups, but I would say none are likely.

They are but makes sense to give Dingwall a game with a club mate and there are no decent uncapped wings off the top of my head so went with McLean. I suspect we'll see one of those guys on tour. Also Hutchinson isn't a million miles off being EQ again (next Feb).

Chapman isn't great but after Price none of the 9s have been overly impressive and didn't fit the shtick of picking uncapped dual qualified players where possible. With Price probably having a summer off it will be a 9 far down the pecking order that plays on the Chile game.

[Big D]

All kidding a side about dual qualified players, Dingwall seems to be a leader. Type of player it is good to have around.

[KingBlairhorn]

Nah let's get folk capped :-)
Chapman
Fin Smith
Roebuck
Hutchinson
Dingwall
McLean
Arundell

I am of course kidding but Townsend should be speaking to some of those guys.

Not sold on Chapman - he's not that good. Hutchinson and McLean are already capped. The rest would all be good pickups, but I would say none are likely.

They are but makes sense to give Dingwall a game with a club mate and there are no decent uncapped wings off the top of my head so went with McLean. I suspect we'll see one of those guys on tour. Also Hutchinson isn't a million miles off being EQ again (next Feb).

Chapman isn't great but after Price none of the 9s have been overly impressive and didn't fit the shtick of picking uncapped dual qualified players where possible. With Price probably having a summer off it will be a 9 far down the pecking order that plays on the Chile game.

Wings will probably be something like Hoyland and Forbes for Chile, McLean and Rowe for Argentina with Graham maybe also touring. There is definitely space for a newbee. I expect we will also see Ollie Smith tour, who can play wing but seems better at fullback and maybe Jack Blain for Chile. Either of the two SQ back 3 players (Roebuck, Arundelll) would be an improvement on that group.

I would be very surprised to see Hutch courted by England. He is a very un-England 12 and if Dingwall can't get capped it would be a shock to see Hutch capped. I agree he'll tour, but he'll tour on merit rather than because of potential EQ status.

Dobbie will tour, as will Horne. I actually think Pyrgos might get a call and I expect Vellacott will also tour. I don't see the value of adding Chapman who is no better than that group in at the exclusion of one of them building their experience. Toonie loves a new player though so I don't think you are necessarily wrong!

Fin Smith would be my top selection from that group though. His heritage (grandson of a Scottish Lion) is excellent and he is high quality already playing in the prem at 19 is very impressive.