The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[KingBlairhorn]

Previous post got lost in the rollback. Not a lot to be surprised at in this. No Fin Smith in the end, and quite a few rested.

Those that might feel unlucky to be left out: Sykes, Boyle, Dean, Dobie (for development purposes), Steyn, Steele, D'Arcy Rae (over Sebastian), Jake Kerr, Magnet McCallum
Presumably (still) injured: Richie, Vellacott, Lang, Berghan, Kebble, Richardson (where did he go?), Bayliss, Alex Craig, Redpath
Rested?: Brown, McInally
Not available?: Richie Gray

[KingBlairhorn]

My Test side:
Schoeman (my number 1 number 1 now); Turner; Fagerson
Gilchrist (assuming Cummings not 100% fit); Gray
Crosbie; Watson; Bradbury (assuming Fagerson not 100% fit)
Price; Hastings/Kinghorn
Graham; Johnson; Bennett; VdM
Jones

Cherry; Sutherland; Sebastian (boke); Hodgson; Skinner; White; Hastings/Kinghorn; Rowe (think he covers wing and fullback? Both Kinghorn and Hastings do so can play utility back)

My A side:
Bhatti (probably number 3 loosie); Ashman; Walker
Hodgson; Young
Christie (surprised Boyle didn't make it); Darge; Muncaster
Horne; Thompson
Rowe; Hutchinson; Currie; Hoyland
Smith

The bench for this game will be STACKED.

Edit: the A game will be outside the window I think so presumably Ashman, Christie, Rowe and Hutchinson won't be available?

[Big D]

I read them and I agree they were nonsense, but that’s irrelevant. Barclay’s point was, even if the comments were insightful and interesting, that they should be ignored unless you are a professional rugby player who has been coached by Wilson. That’s what made it poor form. As I said, I’m sure Barclay will find he is reminded of it constantly now, so a pretty thick thing to do. Maybe he should have stuck to rugby rather than trying to be a journalist.

He has probably been over sensitive to comments on a coach he respects. Shouldn't have made the comment but not the end of the world. It is one comment on twitter.

[Big D]

Previous post got lost in the rollback. Not a lot to be surprised at in this. No Fin Smith in the end, and quite a few rested.

Those that might feel unlucky to be left out: Sykes, Boyle, Dean, Dobie (for development purposes), Steyn, Steele, D'Arcy Rae (over Sebastian), Jake Kerr, Magnet McCallum
Presumably (still) injured: Richie, Vellacott, Lang, Berghan, Kebble, Richardson (where did he go?), Bayliss, Alex Craig, Redpath
Rested?: Brown, McInally
Not available?: Richie Gray

Will be interested in the reasons given for the three obvious omissions, particularly Hogg. If he has carried the can for the All Bar One trip then it is pretty poor given Price is a 50cap player and part of the leadership team.

Think Sykes unlucky but 2nd row is super competitive without being a top quality unit.

Dean is the harshest omission. Johnson is out of form and Tuipolotu can run hard and that is it.

[Jock42]

Is Russell injured? Or dropped? The other Lions are there.

[Big D]

Is Russell injured? Or dropped? The other Lions are there.

Hogg and Harris aren't.

[Big D]

Edited: Wasn't adding any value.

[Big D]

A small concern is asking the Lions in the squad to basically roll 3 seasons into 1 long one as they will only get limited time off before next season and then another small one before RWC prep.

[Biffer]

A small concern is asking the Lions in the squad to basically roll 3 seasons into 1 long one as they will only get limited time off before next season and then another small one before RWC prep.

Yeah, very surprised to see Watson and Price in particular in there.

[dpedin]

A small concern is asking the Lions in the squad to basically roll 3 seasons into 1 long one as they will only get limited time off before next season and then another small one before RWC prep.

Yeah, very surprised to see Watson and Price in particular in there.

Watson was injured for quite a while and missed lots of Embra games and was only just coming back to full fitness and form at end of the season. Price might be there because Vellacott is injured plus he will no doubt be part of the leadership team? With the 10s we have perhaps we need to have him there at 9 to provide a steady influence - I suspect we might play a lot off of 9 in the tests. I would have liked to see Dean in the squad, his form has been excellent but perhaps too similar to Lang and Hutchison? Surprised to see Matt Fagerson in the squad, I thought he was still out injured?

Otherwise I hope Crosbie gets his chance, he has been outstanding and is probably in the form of his life right now. He will take it with both hands if given the opportunity. A big, aggressive, mobile player with a real hard edge to his game and just what we need.

[Yr Alban]

Previous post got lost in the rollback. Not a lot to be surprised at in this. No Fin Smith in the end, and quite a few rested.

Those that might feel unlucky to be left out: Sykes, Boyle, Dean, Dobie (for development purposes), Steyn, Steele, D'Arcy Rae (over Sebastian), Jake Kerr, Magnet McCallum
Presumably (still) injured: Richie, Vellacott, Lang, Berghan, Kebble, Richardson (where did he go?), Bayliss, Alex Craig, Redpath
Rested?: Brown, McInally
Not available?: Richie Gray

What puzzles me about this selection is that we have a bunch of fringe players you’d expect to get a shot in an A game (most of whom are mentioned above) but none of them are travelling. I assume this is because taking a separate A squad for one game would have been prohibitively expensive, but you have to feel for the likes of Dean.

[Biffer]

A small concern is asking the Lions in the squad to basically roll 3 seasons into 1 long one as they will only get limited time off before next season and then another small one before RWC prep.

Yeah, very surprised to see Watson and Price in particular in there.

Watson was injured for quite a while and missed lots of Embra games and was only just coming back to full fitness and form at end of the season. Price might be there because Vellacott is injured plus he will no doubt be part of the leadership team? With the 10s we have perhaps we need to have him there at 9 to provide a steady influence - I suspect we might play a lot off of 9 in the tests. I would have liked to see Dean in the squad, his form has been excellent but perhaps too similar to Lang and Hutchison? Surprised to see Matt Fagerson in the squad, I thought he was still out injured?

Otherwise I hope Crosbie gets his chance, he has been outstanding and is probably in the form of his life right now. He will take it with both hands if given the opportunity. A big, aggressive, mobile player with a real hard edge to his game and just what we need.

Frightens me when Price is regarded as the steadying influence

[Jock42]

I hadn't clocked Dean's absence. That's brutal on him.

[I like neeps]

My Test side:
Schoeman (my number 1 number 1 now); Turner; Fagerson
Gilchrist (assuming Cummings not 100% fit); Gray
Crosbie; Watson; Bradbury (assuming Fagerson not 100% fit)
Price; Hastings/Kinghorn
Graham; Johnson; Bennett; VdM
Jones

Cherry; Sutherland; Sebastian (boke); Hodgson; Skinner; White; Hastings/Kinghorn; Rowe (think he covers wing and fullback? Both Kinghorn and Hastings do so can play utility back)

My A side:
Bhatti (probably number 3 loosie); Ashman; Walker
Hodgson; Young
Christie (surprised Boyle didn't make it); Darge; Muncaster
Horne; Thompson
Rowe; Hutchinson; Currie; Hoyland
Smith

The bench for this game will be STACKED.

Edit: the A game will be outside the window I think so presumably Ashman, Christie, Rowe and Hutchinson won't be available?

If Johnson (poor form all season, questionable application) is ahead of Hutchinson (electrifying, one of the better centres in the prem) then it's a mystifying selection. Also Hutchinson stylistically is the most similar to Redpath.

[Big D]

My Test side:
Schoeman (my number 1 number 1 now); Turner; Fagerson
Gilchrist (assuming Cummings not 100% fit); Gray
Crosbie; Watson; Bradbury (assuming Fagerson not 100% fit)
Price; Hastings/Kinghorn
Graham; Johnson; Bennett; VdM
Jones

Cherry; Sutherland; Sebastian (boke); Hodgson; Skinner; White; Hastings/Kinghorn; Rowe (think he covers wing and fullback? Both Kinghorn and Hastings do so can play utility back)

My A side:
Bhatti (probably number 3 loosie); Ashman; Walker
Hodgson; Young
Christie (surprised Boyle didn't make it); Darge; Muncaster
Horne; Thompson
Rowe; Hutchinson; Currie; Hoyland
Smith

The bench for this game will be STACKED.

Edit: the A game will be outside the window I think so presumably Ashman, Christie, Rowe and Hutchinson won't be available?

If Johnson (poor form all season, questionable application) is ahead of Hutchinson (electrifying, one of the better centres in the prem) then it's a mystifying selection. Also Hutchinson stylistically is the most similar to Redpath.

There's a chance it could be Tuipolotu, which would be worse. Would love GT to go with Hutch and Bennet.

[Tichtheid]

My Test side:
Schoeman (my number 1 number 1 now); Turner; Fagerson
Gilchrist (assuming Cummings not 100% fit); Gray
Crosbie; Watson; Bradbury (assuming Fagerson not 100% fit)
Price; Hastings/Kinghorn
Graham; Johnson; Bennett; VdM
Jones

Cherry; Sutherland; Sebastian (boke); Hodgson; Skinner; White; Hastings/Kinghorn; Rowe (think he covers wing and fullback? Both Kinghorn and Hastings do so can play utility back)

My A side:
Bhatti (probably number 3 loosie); Ashman; Walker
Hodgson; Young
Christie (surprised Boyle didn't make it); Darge; Muncaster
Horne; Thompson
Rowe; Hutchinson; Currie; Hoyland
Smith

The bench for this game will be STACKED.

Edit: the A game will be outside the window I think so presumably Ashman, Christie, Rowe and Hutchinson won't be available?

If Johnson (poor form all season, questionable application) is ahead of Hutchinson (electrifying, one of the better centres in the prem) then it's a mystifying selection. Also Hutchinson stylistically is the most similar to Redpath.

There's a chance it could be Tuipolotu, which would be worse. Would love GT to go with Hutch and Bennet.

Yup, me too.

Also, even if Cummings is fit he is second choice to Giclho in my book and has to earn the jersey from the bench. Gilcho's form this season has been very good, his best for years and he deserves the tour captain armband.

[KingBlairhorn]

Admittedly I haven't seen a lot of Hutch but when I have he has been an elusive runner and an excellent offloader but not a great distributing centre. I think Johnston has a better overall passing game and brings others into the game, which is the main role of Redpath too. I would dearly like a 12 who can also kick (as Redpath can) but neither Johnson nor Hutch are able as far as I know.

For me, in the absence of a massive lump of a 13 (and that isn't Tuipolotu either btw), you need someone who can run smart lines at pace. That's definitely Bennett (and 2015 Jones), and funnily enough I've seen Hutch play that game too.

Johnston has his limitations, but so does Hutch. We played our best rugby with a distributor at 12 (Horne was excellent at this role too), so I would stick with Johnson.

I think one of the issues we have had over the last year to 18 months has been neither of our starting centres are able to really challenge the line (various combinations of Harris, Johnson, Tuipolotu have been the same), so if it were Harris at 13 I would be more inclined to select Hutch at 12 just to keep the rush honest. To be honest, for all our depth at centre, every combination we pick has major flaws. I think Redpath is the closest to a complete centre we have, but I fear he may be forever broken and a great hope that never really materialises.

Edit: in summary, combinations I would like include Hutch/Harris, Johnson/Bennett, Redpath/Bannett, Redpath/Harris, Redpath/Jones (if back to his best)

[Tichtheid]

Harris gets a lot of dung thrown at him for lack of attacking nous, but that is not the guy I see. Yes he is a good defender, probably our best 13 in that regard, but you can only do that if you have pace, you can have all the reading ability and all the anticipation but if you don't have the pace you don't play 13 successfully on either side of the ball.

Whenever I watch him for Glaws or for Scotland I always see him running very good lines at pace.

I don't recall seeing him butcher overlaps or make poor passes, but I will admit to wearing rose-tinted spectacles when it comes to anything related to Scottish rugby.

Having said that, I want to see how Mark Bennett goes and I'd love to see Currie get some time against Chile.

[I like neeps]

If Johnson (poor form all season, questionable application) is ahead of Hutchinson (electrifying, one of the better centres in the prem) then it's a mystifying selection. Also Hutchinson stylistically is the most similar to Redpath.

There's a chance it could be Tuipolotu, which would be worse. Would love GT to go with Hutch and Bennet.

Yup, me too.

Also, even if Cummings is fit he is second choice to Giclho in my book and has to earn the jersey from the bench. Gilcho's form this season has been very good, his best for years and he deserves the tour captain armband.

Tuipolotu is at least playing well for Glasgow. Johnson has had an awful season.

Agree absolutely about Gilchrist - he's been superb this year.

[KingBlairhorn]

Harris gets a lot of dung thrown at him for lack of attacking nous, but that is not the guy I see. Yes he is a good defender, probably our best 13 in that regard, but you can only do that if you have pace, you can have all the reading ability and all the anticipation but if you don't have the pace you don't play 13 successfully on either side of the ball.

Whenever I watch him for Glaws or for Scotland I always see him running very good lines at pace.

I don't recall seeing him butcher overlaps or make poor passes, but I will admit to wearing rose-tinted spectacles when it comes to anything related to Scottish rugby.

Having said that, I want to see how Mark Bennett goes and I'd love to see Currie get some time against Chile.

For the avoidance of doubt I agree, Harris is excellent with a good passing 12 inside him. He certainly isn’t a complete player but he has some very good attributes.
I also agree Gilcho has been brilliant this year but Cummings on form brings so much to the team. His carrying is, for me, second only to Turner’s in terms of aggression and running lines (from the forwards).

[Yr Alban]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/10-takea ... ouncement/

Quite a lot of interesting points in this. Probably the most interesting ones are that Fin Smith clearly isn’t averse to a Scotland call-up in the future, and the throwaway mention of Tom Roebuck at the end - if Toony is mentioning him, it seems to suggest he thinks he would have said yes.

[Big D]

Harris gets a lot of dung thrown at him for lack of attacking nous, but that is not the guy I see. Yes he is a good defender, probably our best 13 in that regard, but you can only do that if you have pace, you can have all the reading ability and all the anticipation but if you don't have the pace you don't play 13 successfully on either side of the ball.

Whenever I watch him for Glaws or for Scotland I always see him running very good lines at pace.

I don't recall seeing him butcher overlaps or make poor passes, but I will admit to wearing rose-tinted spectacles when it comes to anything related to Scottish rugby.

Having said that, I want to see how Mark Bennett goes and I'd love to see Currie get some time against Chile.

For the avoidance of doubt I agree, Harris is excellent with a good passing 12 inside him. He certainly isn’t a complete player but he has some very good attributes.
I also agree Gilcho has been brilliant this year but Cummings on form brings so much to the team. His carrying is, for me, second only to Turner’s in terms of aggression and running lines (from the forwards).

The second row can be GG and Cummings. Gray has gone backwards anytime I've seen him recently.

[KingBlairhorn]

Saw this on Reddit and really enjoyed it, a cameraman who gets in close to the action in the URC. It’s exceptionally vivid and really helps you experience the pace and physicality at that level:

[Slick]

Admittedly I haven't seen a lot of Hutch but when I have he has been an elusive runner and an excellent offloader but not a great distributing centre. I think Johnston has a better overall passing game and brings others into the game, which is the main role of Redpath too. I would dearly like a 12 who can also kick (as Redpath can) but neither Johnson nor Hutch are able as far as I know.

For me, in the absence of a massive lump of a 13 (and that isn't Tuipolotu either btw), you need someone who can run smart lines at pace. That's definitely Bennett (and 2015 Jones), and funnily enough I've seen Hutch play that game too.

Johnston has his limitations, but so does Hutch. We played our best rugby with a distributor at 12 (Horne was excellent at this role too), so I would stick with Johnson.

I think one of the issues we have had over the last year to 18 months has been neither of our starting centres are able to really challenge the line (various combinations of Harris, Johnson, Tuipolotu have been the same), so if it were Harris at 13 I would be more inclined to select Hutch at 12 just to keep the rush honest. To be honest, for all our depth at centre, every combination we pick has major flaws. I think Redpath is the closest to a complete centre we have, but I fear he may be forever broken and a great hope that never really materialises.

Edit: in summary, combinations I would like include Hutch/Harris, Johnson/Bennett, Redpath/Bannett, Redpath/Harris, Redpath/Jones (if back to his best)

If I may, this is an excellent post.

I don’t think Johnson has been bad this season at all. Maybe not quite as impactful as in the past but still a classy player who makes others look good and does the dirty work.

Also agree with Tichtheid that Harris isn’t anywhere near as bad going forward as some would claim. That fucking pass to Hoggy in the 6N was awful but generally he picks good lines and does challenge defences. I mentioned after the Japan game last autumn that I decided to focus on him for the match and his work in defence is out of this world, easily the best I’ve seen from a 13 in recent years.

I think if he can get fit then Redpath is the answer at 12 despite my Johnson love. Hutchinson needs to be given a run at 12 over the summer with Bennett.

As someone else said, we have a superb group of centres but apart from, briefly, Johnson and Jones (who I still wouldn’t discount) and Johnson and Harris no combination has completely nailed it

[KingBlairhorn]

The cheque is in the post, Slick

[Slick]

The cheque is in the post, Slick

Just watched that video you posted above. That's the first time since I stopped playing that I've felt like playing again. You dick.

[Slick]

The cheque is in the post, Slick

It's a lonely path being right about everything rugby related so always nice to see someone else giving it a go.

[Blackmac]

My 14 year old nephew has been selected for the under 16 hub programme. My understanding is that he will be on it for 2 years. There are only three state school kids in his hub of 36 and to be honest the difference in class between them and the majority of private school lads is massive and they are head and shoulders above them in terms of skills, knowledge and even physicality. I was speaking to couple of fathers who said that their lads get 6 to 8 hours of coaching every week at their schools. A shame that some kids are at such a disadvantage with little or no chance of progressing.

[KingBlairhorn]

My 14 year old nephew has been selected for the under 16 hub programme. My understanding is that he will be on it for 2 years. There are only three state school kids in his hub of 36 and to be honest the difference in class between them and the majority of private school lads is massive and they are head and shoulders above them in terms of skills, knowledge and even physicality. I was speaking to couple of fathers who said that their lads get 6 to 8 hours of coaching every week at their schools. A shame that some kids are at such a disadvantage with little or no chance of progressing.

Congrats on your nephew's selection.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record on this, the SFA Performance School system is a fabulous idea and potentially a way for the SRU to close this gap.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/performanc ... e-schools/

The kids get hours of additional coaching a week plus access to nutrition information, physio, S&C etc. that they would not otherwise be able to access, all through the existing state funded schools. The kids get 75-90 minutes additional coaching per day, so similar to the 6-8 hours at the independent schools.

The beauty for the SRU is that this programme already exists - surely it would be significantly easier for them to piggyback off of this programme and share resource on some of the coaches and resources? A bit of corporate sponsorship on top (the Aberdeen Standard Investments Performance Rugby Programme for instance) would definitely help. Schools at least in Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow with potentially fully SRU funded programmes in the borders (Gala, possibly Hawick) and maybe Highland (Inverness?). Select perhaps 50-100 boys and girls each year and it would make a dramatic difference IMO. Even 5 places per school would be meaningful.

The SFA version has already been running around 10 years and is only now showing the fruits of that labour, so it would be a significant and long term investment.

[Margin__Walker]

My 14 year old nephew has been selected for the under 16 hub programme. My understanding is that he will be on it for 2 years. There are only three state school kids in his hub of 36 and to be honest the difference in class between them and the majority of private school lads is massive and they are head and shoulders above them in terms of skills, knowledge and even physicality. I was speaking to couple of fathers who said that their lads get 6 to 8 hours of coaching every week at their schools. A shame that some kids are at such a disadvantage with little or no chance of progressing.

Is there anything like the English ACE pathway in Scotland?

Whilst rugby is still very public school heavy, it provides a solid pathway for state school kids. Each premiership club has a partnership for with a local state school. The clubs then funnel the best state school kids from their Developing Player Programmes (13 - 16) into those schools for 6th form. There the club provides a proper coaching package to rival what they would get at even the best fee paying school.

The club U18 teams are then made up almost exclusively of a mixture of private school and that one ACE school. For example in this year's LI senior academy, 9 of the 17 kids who previously played U18s for the club are state school lads who came through the ACE system.

It's not for everyone, as the kids who aren't local have to live away (club's pay to put them up with local families during the week etc), but it does provide a way in and quality of coaching that wouldn't otherwise be available.

Obviously doesn't help the under 16s much to be fair...

[westport]

Defence Coach Calum MacRae will leave the club later this month due to family circumstances and will take up the same position with Benetton Rugby
“As a family, we needed a change and the opportunity arising at this point with Benetton felt like it was the right match for us."

[robmatic]

Defence Coach Calum MacRae will leave the club later this month due to family circumstances and will take up the same position with Benetton Rugby
“As a family, we needed a change and the opportunity arising at this point with Benetton felt like it was the right match for us."

That's a big loss.

[Jock42]

Ah that's shite. Good luck to him (well mostly).

[Jock42]

Good to see a fair chunk of embra players at the Watsonians County match

[Tichtheid]

Bottom line for me after tonight's win for the Bulls, the Scottish sides are never going to beat the Bokker sides for power, but the New Zealanders didn't try, they held their own and played faster and with better hand skills. Take a look at the list of Super Rugby winners and see if it worked
(it did, 17 winners in 23 seasons)

That is the template we should be using, we don't have the big beasts that South Africa seem to produce on a conveyor belt, so within reason, pace pace pace, jouyer

[Biffer]

Bottom line for me after tonight's win for the Bulls, the Scottish sides are never going to beat the Bokker sides for power, but the New Zealanders didn't try, they held their own and played faster and with better hand skills. Take a look at the list of Super Rugby winners and see if it worked
(it did, 17 winners in 23 seasons)

That is the template we should be using, we don't have the big beasts that South Africa seem to produce on a conveyor belt, so within reason, pace pace pace, jouyer

Have to point out Edinburgh won in South Africa.

[mos_eisely_]

Bottom line for me after tonight's win for the Bulls, the Scottish sides are never going to beat the Bokker sides for power, but the New Zealanders didn't try, they held their own and played faster and with better hand skills. Take a look at the list of Super Rugby winners and see if it worked
(it did, 17 winners in 23 seasons)

That is the template we should be using, we don't have the big beasts that South Africa seem to produce on a conveyor belt, so within reason, pace pace pace, jouyer

Have to point out Edinburgh won in South Africa.

And beat the Bulls at DAM Health, and drew with the Stormers. This season we've played 5 games against the SA teams
Won 2, Drawn 1, Lost 2

[Tichtheid]

Bottom line for me after tonight's win for the Bulls, the Scottish sides are never going to beat the Bokker sides for power, but the New Zealanders didn't try, they held their own and played faster and with better hand skills. Take a look at the list of Super Rugby winners and see if it worked
(it did, 17 winners in 23 seasons)

That is the template we should be using, we don't have the big beasts that South Africa seem to produce on a conveyor belt, so within reason, pace pace pace, jouyer

Have to point out Edinburgh won in South Africa.

We did, we won once and lost twice there.

We won once and drew once at home against SA sides, but in order to turn those stats in our favour I think we need to play faster, and be far more accurate when it comes to retaining possession.

[Biffer]

Bottom line for me after tonight's win for the Bulls, the Scottish sides are never going to beat the Bokker sides for power, but the New Zealanders didn't try, they held their own and played faster and with better hand skills. Take a look at the list of Super Rugby winners and see if it worked
(it did, 17 winners in 23 seasons)

That is the template we should be using, we don't have the big beasts that South Africa seem to produce on a conveyor belt, so within reason, pace pace pace, jouyer

Have to point out Edinburgh won in South Africa.

We did, we won once and lost twice there.

We won once and drew once at home against SA sides, but in order to turn those stats in our favour I think we need to play faster, and be far more accurate when it comes to retaining possession.

I think we did it by playing a lot of fast rugby and I think it is better than any other team in the league v the South Africans.

[fishfoodie]

Have to point out Edinburgh won in South Africa.

We did, we won once and lost twice there.

We won once and drew once at home against SA sides, but in order to turn those stats in our favour I think we need to play faster, and be far more accurate when it comes to retaining possession.

I think we did it by playing a lot of fast rugby and I think it is better than any other team in the league v the South Africans.

It's like playing against the frogs; run the fatties around the park, don't get dragged into a forwards battle, & use your kicking game to peg them back, while setting your defense to make sure they can't counter from the kicks. In the last 30mins you hopefully win the game.