The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[KingBlairhorn]

Apparently the SRU were sounding out Aidan Ross for Scotland.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aidan_R ... %20Ross%20

He’s going to be an AB so it isn’t happening, but a bit depressing that we were/are looking to bring another SQ prop in rather than develop some of the young guys in the system.

[Jock42]

[Slick]

Posted this on another thread but thought it was quite nice

[KingBlairhorn]

It’s not been an enjoyable few weeks to be a Scottish sports fan. Ffs, can’t we just be good at 1 thing, or even half decent. It’s relentlessly depressing.

[Slick]

It’s not been an enjoyable few weeks to be a Scottish sports fan. Ffs, can’t we just be good at 1 thing, or even half decent. It’s relentlessly depressing.

Always has been, always will be. It makes the highs even higher and I’ve come to terms with that

[KingBlairhorn]

It’s not been an enjoyable few weeks to be a Scottish sports fan. Ffs, can’t we just be good at 1 thing, or even half decent. It’s relentlessly depressing.

Always has been, always will be. It makes the highs even higher and I’ve come to terms with that

Not me. I still hope, I always hope.

[LenCohen]

It’s not been an enjoyable few weeks to be a Scottish sports fan. Ffs, can’t we just be good at 1 thing, or even half decent. It’s relentlessly depressing.

Always has been, always will be. It makes the highs even higher and I’ve come to terms with that

I honestly think we should quietly withdraw from international team sport. We are just not cut out for it. The football in particular has been embarrassing the past few weeks.

[Tichtheid]

We’re ranked 7th in the world in men’s rugby,, 11th in women’s. if the inverted snobs in the Scottish media would start celebrating that and get the youth interested beyond the usual suspects we might push on to higher rankings and compete for some silverware

Other than that we’ve got the shinty and the curling

[Slick]

We’re ranked 7th in the world in men’s rugby,, 11th in women’s. if the inverted snobs in the Scottish media would start celebrating that and get the youth interested beyond the usual suspects we might push on to higher rankings and compete for some silverware

Other than that we’ve got the shinty and the curling

Completely agree, we are a top international rugby team competing, mostly, with the best in the world despite huge disadvantages, it should be massively celebrated. I’ve brought this up a few times on here that there must be more the SRU can be doing to get that message across.

Also, tennis and cycling has been pretty good over the last decade

[Biffer]

I would also like to point out that we’re 12th in the one day cricket rankings.

[I like neeps]

We’re ranked 7th in the world in men’s rugby,, 11th in women’s. if the inverted snobs in the Scottish media would start celebrating that and get the youth interested beyond the usual suspects we might push on to higher rankings and compete for some silverware

Other than that we’ve got the shinty and the curling

We're 7th in the world but there's only about 12 teams who can play to any sort of level and we don't seriously challenge at the top end of international rugby. Not really the media's fault on this one - the Daily Record did briefly try and push rugby around 2013/13 but it just doesn't get the interest. It's always going to be a minority sport outside of football.

It's also a minority sport in England - but they seem to have carved out a few rugby areas. I was at Welford yesterday (class experience - Hutchinson simply has to play for Scotland) and the amount of people in vintage kits etc you really could feel the history. Leicester is an odd one as they have a successful football team too. But Northampton doesn't, Exeter doesn't, Bath doesn't, Gloucester doesn't. The SRU really need to invest in the Borders, Stirling, Ayr/Marr/West of Scotland. Those are the areas with a strong culture of rugby. Ignore Aberdeen and Dundee as they're fighting a losing battle.

Also was never too fussed on Dingwall for Scotland - obviously a good player. However, he was also very good. Would like Fagerson too be a bit more Ellis Genge as at times he was running with about three saints on him. Fagerson could do that but seems to be lacking the intensity.

[Tichtheid]

My point is this, we need at least another pro team, preferably two, but even one is on a wish list for the future.

I may have mentioned this before but back in the heyday of the CiF comments section of the Guardian online there was a guy who knew the BBC in Glasgow. It was his opinion that the broadcast and print media in Scotland had a hatred of rugby, not just an indifference. This was due to the perception of it being a public school boys’ game.

When Scott Johnson came in ( I can hear the howls at that name already) he wanted to change that, get the public behind the one team sport where we might actually win something.
It doesn’t matter that there are far fewer teams who take it seriously than in football, that has nothing to do with it, it is not something I have any interest in, I want better rugby in Scotland.

The way we can get a third and fourth team is by whipping up interest, get boys and girls wanting to play, get them seeing Hoggy or Jamie Ritchie as someone they want to emulate, we have to raise their profiles.

The SRU is actually doing a fair bit in promoting the game, I know rugby is not alone in seeing participation falling off after school age due to a number of factors, but I think that Aberdeen and Dundee shouldn’t be written off. With good publicity rugby could become stronger there, we don’t have many large centres of population but imo these are exactly the areas we need to be targetting to add to the next generation of players

[I like neeps]

The BBC showed every Scotland game and pro games on Alba. Also, the BBC is very public school as an organisation so I'd be surprised if BBC Scotland wasn't. Not sure what they were doing to keep rugby off our screens. They barely show any football either.

You need to build rugby up in rugby areas. We have clubs with communities. That's how you get people involved. As said, I don't think it's a surprise rugby in England typically does well in areas it's not competing with football. Add Worcester and Wasps when they were in Wycombe to that. Quins in Richmond is hardly a big football area also. I grew up in Dundee - there was one club and they couldn't raise a team past age 14. There were also barely any teams in Aberdeen. You're pushing at a closed door in those cities. Stirling however have a great club.

[Tichtheid]

The BBC showed every Scotland game and pro games on Alba. Also, the BBC is very public school as an organisation so I'd be surprised if BBC Scotland wasn't. Not sure what they were doing to keep rugby off our screens. They barely show any football either.

Sort of but not quite, when the Edinburgh or Glasgow games were on Alba the outside broadcast vans were from BBC Wales or the Irish broadcasters, Alba picked up the broadcast for peanuts.

My uncle was a print media journalist and a footballers' agent, he had many friends and acquaintances in the sports rooms in the BBC in Glasgow, he was of a similar opinion of the overall outlook of the media in Scotland to the guy I quoted before.

[Big D]

Years ago, the SRU tried to get the Beeb to cover the tour that included Fiji (Vissers debut iirc) and also a tour to Argentina (using the ESPN feed) for minimal cost and they wouldn't do it. Had to watch the Fiji game on the tourist board Fb page.

[I like neeps]

Years ago, the SRU tried to get the Beeb to cover the tour that included Fiji (Vissers debut iirc) and also a tour to Argentina (using the ESPN feed) for minimal cost and they wouldn't do it. Had to watch the Fiji game on the tourist board Fb page.

Did that game not kick off at 3:30 am? Who is broadcasting that?! You need someone to basically run the local broadcast like sky do with Australia/NZ games etc and maybe have someone in a studio in London for 6am. Who is getting up at 2am for Scotland Fiji?

Perhaps the BBC don't care about rugby but they were good to Scottish rugby. BBC alba featured many halftime reports, they're broadcasting super6 games. What more do we want? The BBC's job isn't pumping up sports - they don't with football either.

[Yr Alban]

It’s not been an enjoyable few weeks to be a Scottish sports fan. Ffs, can’t we just be good at 1 thing, or even half decent. It’s relentlessly depressing.

Always has been, always will be. It makes the highs even higher and I’ve come to terms with that

I honestly think we should quietly withdraw from international team sport. We are just not cut out for it. The football in particular has been embarrassing the past few weeks.

The games v Ukraine and Ireland were crap. The common demoninator? Steve Clarke (who I think has generally done a decent job) stubbornly returns to his favourite players for every big game, and they just don’t deliver. Massive game v Ukraine, so we start with a central defence of McTominay (not a defender and has never convinced in the role), Hanley (rubbish) and Cooper (who?) whilst leaving Souttar, McKenna and Hendry on the bench. He changed the team for Armenia and they won handily, but then Hanley was back in v Ireland.

[KingBlairhorn]

Always has been, always will be. It makes the highs even higher and I’ve come to terms with that

I honestly think we should quietly withdraw from international team sport. We are just not cut out for it. The football in particular has been embarrassing the past few weeks.

The games v Ukraine and Ireland were crap. The common demoninator? Steve Clarke (who I think has generally done a decent job) stubbornly returns to his favourite players for every big game, and they just don’t deliver. Massive game v Ukraine, so we start with a central defence of McTominay (not a defender and has never convinced in the role), Hanley (rubbish) and Cooper (who?) whilst leaving Souttar, McKenna and Hendry on the bench. He changed the team for Armenia and they won handily, but then Hanley was back in v Ireland.

I don't really agree with that. McTominay has been a CB for some of our best performances, Hanley likewise and Cooper is playing well (enough) for Leeds in the prem. I don't think the other three are notably worse, they aren't, but they aren't notably better either. We just have a lot of mediocre players and they were shown to be exactly that in a match that wouldn't have looked out of place in the Championship in England.

The issue is we have lost our one actually international class centreback (Tierney) who was able to cover for most of the mistakes of our other centrebacks. That added to the fact that Robertson combining with Tierney is our main attacking weapon and that we don't have a decent goalscorer (and possibly also that we went into the game thinking we just had to turn up to win) and we get a performance like Saturday.

The football isn't disimilar to the rugby in many ways. Get the first choice team on the pitch all healthy and in form and we can beat almost anyone. As soon as there are issues with form and fitness it can all fall apart.

[I like neeps]

We can beat almost anyone? When was the last time the football team beat anyone half decent? A heavily rotated Denmark I guess. Before that I can't see us having beat anyone of note for a long long time - we get some draws in with England and Germany. But wins? No. We just aren't good at football.

[Slick]

We can beat almost anyone? When was the last time the football team beat anyone half decent? A heavily rotated Denmark I guess. Before that I can't see us having beat anyone of note for a long long time - we get some draws in with England and Germany. But wins? No. We just aren't good at football.

I don't think it's a bad squad to be honest, but we have no forwards that can score goals. Che and that Aussie guy up front are just not very good.

[Biffer]

Cough....rugby....cough

Peter Wright suggesting Glasgow need a Cockerill type coach to give them a kick up the arse and noting that Dean Richards is available. That'd be a good shout if you're willing to look past the bloodgate thing.

[Slick]

Cough....rugby....cough

Peter Wright suggesting Glasgow need a Cockerill type coach to give them a kick up the arse and noting that Dean Richards is available. That'd be a good shout if you're willing to look past the bloodgate thing.

I can look past it. Less so Wright stealing my idea.

[sockwithaticket]

Cough....rugby....cough

Peter Wright suggesting Glasgow need a Cockerill type coach to give them a kick up the arse and noting that Dean Richards is available. That'd be a good shout if you're willing to look past the bloodgate thing.

Don't think Deano has much to offer tbh. Newcastle lose a lot and the scorelines can be really ugly. Perennial basement dwellers along with Worcester. Finishes over the last decade:
12th (first season with 13 teams)
10th
n/a (in the Championship having been relegated)
12th
4th (not a good year for the Prem
8th
11th
11th
11th
n/a (in the Championship having been relegated).

[I like neeps]

Cough....rugby....cough

Peter Wright suggesting Glasgow need a Cockerill type coach to give them a kick up the arse and noting that Dean Richards is available. That'd be a good shout if you're willing to look past the bloodgate thing.

Don't think Deano has much to offer tbh. Newcastle lose a lot and the scorelines can be really ugly. Perennial basement dwellers along with Worcester. Finishes over the last decade:
12th (first season with 13 teams)
10th
n/a (in the Championship having been relegated)
12th
4th (not a good year for the Prem
8th
11th
11th
11th
n/a (in the Championship having been relegated).

Agreed Deano is yesterday's man but Newcastle are about where they should be considering their budget disparity. I have an affinity for the falcons as I have lived in Newcastle and I found it bizarre they don't bring through many players considering their catchment area is both large and good. Even stranger when you have good young guys like Hayden-Wood leave. The SRU need to hire a coach with a real interest in youth development.

[KingBlairhorn]

We can beat almost anyone? When was the last time the football team beat anyone half decent? A heavily rotated Denmark I guess. Before that I can't see us having beat anyone of note for a long long time - we get some draws in with England and Germany. But wins? No. We just aren't good at football.

I mean, if you are going to discount us handily beating the 11th best team in the world just a few months ago then it's more difficult for sure!

I stand by the contention though. Outside of the absolute top teams we can beat almost anyone. We have, in the last couple of years, beaten the Czechs (top 30) twice, Austria (just outside top 30) as well as Slovakia, Israel and Denmark (11th). We have also drawn with top 30 teams Serbia and Poland as well as Netherlands (10th) and England (5th). Given how many teams there are in football and how many of them are half-decent, being able to consistently challenge any team outside the top 15-20 (out of the currently 211 active international teams) means you can beat almost anyone.

[I like neeps]

We can beat almost anyone? When was the last time the football team beat anyone half decent? A heavily rotated Denmark I guess. Before that I can't see us having beat anyone of note for a long long time - we get some draws in with England and Germany. But wins? No. We just aren't good at football.

I mean, if you are going to discount us handily beating the 11th best team in the world just a few months ago then it's more difficult for sure!

I stand by the contention though. Outside of the absolute top teams we can beat almost anyone. We have, in the last couple of years, beaten the Czechs (top 30) twice, Austria (just outside top 30) as well as Slovakia, Israel and Denmark (11th). We have also drawn with top 30 teams Serbia and Poland as well as Netherlands (10th) and England (5th). Given how many teams there are in football and how many of them are half-decent, being able to consistently challenge any team outside the top 15-20 (out of the currently 211 active international teams) means you can beat almost anyone.

Yes we beat a heavily rotated Denmark for who it was meaninglessness match as they had already qualified and decided to rotate. But we did beat the 11th best team.

Draws with England, Poland, Netherlands (friendly), Serbia. Slovakia are 45th, Israel 76th. Beat Czech twice (currently 33rd btw) and handled by them in the game that matters and dispatched by Croatia. Didn't fire a shot Vs Ukraine either.

Scotland football are like Scotland rugby in that they fail to show up when it really matters Vs anyone who aren't England.

[KingBlairhorn]

We can beat almost anyone? When was the last time the football team beat anyone half decent? A heavily rotated Denmark I guess. Before that I can't see us having beat anyone of note for a long long time - we get some draws in with England and Germany. But wins? No. We just aren't good at football.

I mean, if you are going to discount us handily beating the 11th best team in the world just a few months ago then it's more difficult for sure!

I stand by the contention though. Outside of the absolute top teams we can beat almost anyone. We have, in the last couple of years, beaten the Czechs (top 30) twice, Austria (just outside top 30) as well as Slovakia, Israel and Denmark (11th). We have also drawn with top 30 teams Serbia and Poland as well as Netherlands (10th) and England (5th). Given how many teams there are in football and how many of them are half-decent, being able to consistently challenge any team outside the top 15-20 (out of the currently 211 active international teams) means you can beat almost anyone.

Yes we beat a heavily rotated Denmark for who it was meaninglessness match as they had already qualified and decided to rotate. But we did beat the 11th best team.

Draws with England, Poland, Netherlands (friendly), Serbia. Slovakia are 45th, Israel 76th. Beat Czech twice (currently 33rd btw) and handled by them in the game that matters and dispatched by Croatia. Didn't fire a shot Vs Ukraine either.

Scotland football are like Scotland rugby in that they fail to show up when it really matters Vs anyone who aren't England.

I certainly agree that if you discount any match where we have a positive result then we have very few positive results. Not sure what your point is really, I said we can beat almost anyone on our day where the conditions are perfect ("Get the first choice team on the pitch all healthy and in form and we can beat almost anyone. As soon as there are issues with form and fitness it can all fall apart.") and gave examples of us beating almost anyone on our day whereconditions were perfect. I also qualified that if conditions aren't perfect then it all falls apart. Yes, we don't beat the very top teams which is specifically the qualification to my statement - "almost anyone".

[I like neeps]

I mean, if you are going to discount us handily beating the 11th best team in the world just a few months ago then it's more difficult for sure!

I stand by the contention though. Outside of the absolute top teams we can beat almost anyone. We have, in the last couple of years, beaten the Czechs (top 30) twice, Austria (just outside top 30) as well as Slovakia, Israel and Denmark (11th). We have also drawn with top 30 teams Serbia and Poland as well as Netherlands (10th) and England (5th). Given how many teams there are in football and how many of them are half-decent, being able to consistently challenge any team outside the top 15-20 (out of the currently 211 active international teams) means you can beat almost anyone.

Yes we beat a heavily rotated Denmark for who it was meaninglessness match as they had already qualified and decided to rotate. But we did beat the 11th best team.

Draws with England, Poland, Netherlands (friendly), Serbia. Slovakia are 45th, Israel 76th. Beat Czech twice (currently 33rd btw) and handled by them in the game that matters and dispatched by Croatia. Didn't fire a shot Vs Ukraine either.

Scotland football are like Scotland rugby in that they fail to show up when it really matters Vs anyone who aren't England.

I certainly agree that if you discount any match where we have a positive result then we have very few positive results. Not sure what your point is really, I said we can beat almost anyone on our day where the conditions are perfect ("Get the first choice team on the pitch all healthy and in form and we can beat almost anyone. As soon as there are issues with form and fitness it can all fall apart.") and gave examples of us beating almost anyone on our day whereconditions were perfect. I also qualified that if conditions aren't perfect then it all falls apart. Yes, we don't beat the very top teams which is specifically the qualification to my statement - "almost anyone".

And almost anyone was Denmark, Czech Republic and Austria. Only one team that would be widely thought of as decent in that lot. A few very credible draws including England at Wembley. But this team mainly beats sides it's probably marginally better than. Mostly draws or loses to sides it's a bit worse than. Achieves about what can be expected and flatters to deceive in meaningful games. I don't think that can be described an one their day team as they about achieve the bare minimum and have shown virtually no incidents of overachieving. And I include qualifying for the euros in that considering these days about half of the countries who play football in Europe (24 in 55) quality.

[Biffer]

Lot of football chat on here

[Yr Alban]

Lot of football chat on here

No rugby going on. Plus we need to bleed the bruise/vent spleen.

[mos_eisely_]

Welcome news of some further investment in the women's team ahead of the World Cup this autumn.

However the much celebrated figure of £500k total investment by the SRU in 2022 amounts to less than £14k per player

[I like neeps]

Welcome news of some further investment in the women's team ahead of the World Cup this autumn.

However the much celebrated figure of £500k total investment by the SRU in 2022 amounts to less than £14k per player

Do 7s players and stage 3 academy players not get the same tiny amount?

Very hard to put a value on a professional woman's contract considering there's no club, no regular or very much revenue. My cousin actually plays in England's Premier League but she's only part time. The bigger clubs I think are fully pro but think that's the union subsidising them and I doubt even then they're paid much. Maybe a helpful English visitor can confirm.

[clydecloggie]

Welcome news of some further investment in the women's team ahead of the World Cup this autumn.

However the much celebrated figure of £500k total investment by the SRU in 2022 amounts to less than £14k per player

it's until the WC, right? Which is in October so £14k average for 6 months amounts to a decent income - I think the press release said something about 'tailored to individual needs' so a student might get a bit less and someone in a FT permanent job a bit more to buy them out of that and be FT athletes from now until whenever their world cup run ends.

[KingBlairhorn]

Welcome news of some further investment in the women's team ahead of the World Cup this autumn.

However the much celebrated figure of £500k total investment by the SRU in 2022 amounts to less than £14k per player

it's until the WC, right? Which is in October so £14k average for 6 months amounts to a decent income - I think the press release said something about 'tailored to individual needs' so a student might get a bit less and someone in a FT permanent job a bit more to buy them out of that and be FT athletes from now until whenever their world cup run ends.

Apprently they are going fully pro after the world cup - 30 players to be on full time contracts, total investment going from current c.£1.6m to £4.1m. The players are to be contracted to two semi-pro teams playing in an as-yet unconfirmed tournament, likely a URC mirror tournament (although possibly just in UK/Ireland). The teams are semi-pro as the SRU will continue to support those who want to continue with careers or further education whilst playing.

Good news all round.

[KingBlairhorn]

Also, Todd Blackadder to Glasgow heavily rumoured including Mark Palmer in the Times.

[Biffer]

Also, Todd Blackadder to Glasgow heavily rumoured including Mark Palmer in the Times.

Not sure what to make of that. Wasn't the greatest success at Bath and didn't even win anything while at the Crusaders, which seems like quite the achievement tbh.

[KingBlairhorn]

Also, Todd Blackadder to Glasgow heavily rumoured including Mark Palmer in the Times.

Not sure what to make of that. Wasn't the greatest success at Bath and didn't even win anything while at the Crusaders, which seems like quite the achievement tbh.

That seems to be the general consensus on social media. Presumably the goal here is for him to also mentor Horne (snr) ala Tonnie/Rennie mentoring Mike Blair with a view to him taking over in 2-4 years? Maybe he will be good in that role - I can't say I know if he has helped develop other coaches before? He certainly coaches teams to play the game the 'Glasgow way', which will help bring fans onside.

I'm undecided if he is a good choice or not.

[Slick]

Also, Todd Blackadder to Glasgow heavily rumoured including Mark Palmer in the Times.

Not sure what to make of that. Wasn't the greatest success at Bath and didn't even win anything while at the Crusaders, which seems like quite the achievement tbh.

That seems to be the general consensus on social media. Presumably the goal here is for him to also mentor Horne (snr) ala Tonnie/Rennie mentoring Mike Blair with a view to him taking over in 2-4 years? Maybe he will be good in that role - I can't say I know if he has helped develop other coaches before? He certainly coaches teams to play the game the 'Glasgow way', which will help bring fans onside.

I'm undecided if he is a good choice or not.

Oh, I was quite excited by the prospect.

Lots to commend it as well, used to the set up, likes the country, no nonsense type chap. Don't think it would be a bad choice and not sure we are going to be getting anyone in the next bracket up anyway

[weegie01]

My head is about to explode working out the Champions Cup format. Please tell if I have this right.

There are 2 pools of 12.

Tier one and tier 4 from each league play the teams not in their league home and away.

So Edinburgh play tier one and two Premiership, and one and two Top14 home and away.

That is Castres, Montpellier, Leicester and Saracens.

Easy, peasy.

[Biffer]

My head is about to explode working out the Champions Cup format. Please tell if I have this right.

There are 2 pools of 12.

Tier one and tier 4 from each league play the teams not in their league home and away.

So Edinburgh play tier one and two Premiership, and one and two Top14 home and away.

That is Castres, Montpellier, Leicester and Saracens.

Easy, peasy.

Edinburgh are Tier 4. So they play the two teams who are Tier 1 in their group who are not from their 'domestic' League. So One English, One French. The English team will be either Leicester or Saracens. The French Team will be one of the two teams in the final of the Top14.