President Biden and US politics catchall

[notfatcat]

Oh I see, this is all about equality of the sexes. Okay.

[Tichtheid]

In fact, mandatory sterilisation is not in any way similar because there are no consequences to it, not in the way there are consequences to carrying a pregnancy to full term


I haven't seen one of these extremists guarantee costs for these unwanted pregnancies, they tend to abandon the consequences of their own warped morality.


Hypocrites.

[notfatcat]

I guess when you happen upon a woman who's anti-abortion you just put it down to internalised misogyny. She's probably pretending to care about unborn babies.

[Tichtheid]

I guess when you happen upon a woman who's anti-abortion you just put it down to internalised misogyny. She's probably pretending to care about unborn babies.

I fully acknowledge any woman's prerogative to hold any point of view they see fit, however a quick Google didn't provide me with the percentage of women in favour of abortion, it did tell me that, from Forbes,

Gallup polls show Americans’ support for abortion in all or most cases at 80% in May 2021

[Tichtheid]

By the way, and as per a post I made earlier, now that they've tackled Roe v Wade, how long should the Supreme Court take to, and I quote

"Justice Thomas: SCOTUS ‘should reconsider’ contraception, same-sex marriage rulings.” That is a quote from Justice Thomas.

Should they go after the contraception first or the gays?

I'm thinking the gays, that would be easier, on the other had if they go after contraception it will link with the anti-abortion stuff, or maybe if they make contraception illegal is would mean there are more abortions, for those who don't follow the moon cycles, obviously.

It's a tough one.

[Gumboot]

[Biffer]

Yep, all of those are on the list now. Utterly disgusting from a bunch of extremist religious fundamentalists

[Wilson's Toffee]

Yet, the right to abortion still stands in the States that agree with it, and other States can agree with it, as well. What does not stand, any more, is the right of the Federal courts to usurp (i.e. infringe upon the States right to decide) authority.
Whether they condone abortion or not, is mute. The States now have a chance to unshackled themselves from overbearing Federal dictates,

[convoluted]

... a quick Google (told) me that ...

Gallup polls show Americans’ support for abortion in all or most cases at 80% in May 2021

^^^ So why your shrieking hysteria???
Abortion rights will now be decided by the people on a state by state basis.
Given your quoted statistic, we can surely expect every state to overwhelmingly grant women abortion on demand.

Or, you Silly Billy, have you once more allowed your MSM manipulators to make an ass of you yet again by conning you into believing that today's decision makes abortions illegal throughout the United States forevermore ???

[Wilson's Toffee]

[Gumboot]

Yet, the right to abortion still stands in the States that agree with it, and other States can agree with it, as well. What does not stand, any more, is the right of the Federal courts to usurp (i.e. infringe upon the States right to decide) authority.
Whether they condone abortion or not, is mute. The States now have a chance to unshackled themselves from overbearing Federal dictates,

Yet, a mere 24 hours previously, they'd taken the opposite view when overturning a NY State gun control law.

[Hugo]

... a quick Google (told) me that ...

Gallup polls show Americans’ support for abortion in all or most cases at 80% in May 2021

^^^ So why your shrieking hysteria???
Abortion rights will now be decided by the people on a state by state basis.

The point is it should be decided by the people on an person by person basis.

The government should not be infringing on the rights of individuals to determine what they can do with their bodies.

[average joe]

I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?

[Calculon]

I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?

You do have a say. Vote for a different government, start a campaign to remove government funding for abortions, move to a different country.

[sefton]

I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?

So do you believe you should have a say over all health spending?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?

So whether or not you agree with them on the policy you'd support the idea that those in favour of defunding the police can have their taxes cut or actually have a corresponding cut in police services?

[Kiwias]

Yet, the right to abortion still stands in the States that agree with it, and other States can agree with it, as well. What does not stand, any more, is the right of the Federal courts to usurp (i.e. infringe upon the States right to decide) authority.
Whether they condone abortion or not, is mute. The States now have a chance to unshackled themselves from overbearing Federal dictates,

Yet, a mere 24 hours previously, they'd taken the opposite view when overturning a NY State gun control law.

We must all have missed WT's post declaring his outrage at such a blatant usurpation (usurpery?) of state's rights in that case.

[GogLais]

Yet, the right to abortion still stands in the States that agree with it, and other States can agree with it, as well. What does not stand, any more, is the right of the Federal courts to usurp (i.e. infringe upon the States right to decide) authority.
Whether they condone abortion or not, is mute. The States now have a chance to unshackled themselves from overbearing Federal dictates,

Yet, a mere 24 hours previously, they'd taken the opposite view when overturning a NY State gun control law.

We must all have missed WT's post declaring his outrage at such a blatant usurpation (usurpery?) of state's rights in that case.

Maybe something to do with the Constitution specifically dealing with the right to bear arms?

[average joe]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

[sockwithaticket]

I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?

I'd prefer that my taxes went to increasing nurses salaries rather than bogus PPE ontracts for Tory donors or contribute to divisive faith schools, but that's not how it works. We don't get to send in a form with a tick list of things we're ok with it being spent on.

[I like neeps]

I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?

So do you believe you should have a say over all health spending?

Why stop there? Every single piece of government expenditure should be run past average joe.

[sockwithaticket]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

So, what's the solution?

Vanishingly few women use abortion as birth control, there will be a few of course, but much like benefit cheats, that minority are part of the price for making something vital available to those who need it.

Onto your specific extreme edge case, a 16 year old on her 3rd abortion most likely has some issues going on whether it's as simple as being too uneducated to know about contraception or perhaps historic abuse leading to hypersexuality at a young age. Whatever it is they're unlikely to be fit to bring a child into the world and raise it, yet also unlikely to be able to afford their own abortions if forced to pay for it, so what's the solution?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

You're now arguing both for and against elective surgery being funded. You don't even agree with yourself on this

[Gumboot]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

Presumably there's a lad or lads involved in your grim little '3 abortions by 16' scenario. Possibly an uncle. Or maybe a brother. Are you suggesting this girl bears all the responsibility for her pregnancy and the equally "promiscuous" father(s) needn't concern themselves with contraception and the like? Is it all the girl's fault for being a slut who couldn't keep her legs crossed?

[GogLais]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

Presumably there's a lad or lads involved in your grim little '3 abortions by 16' scenario. Possibly an uncle. Or maybe a brother. Are you suggesting this girl bears all the responsibility for her pregnancy and the equally "promiscuous" father(s) needn't concern themselves with contraception and the like? Is it all the girl's fault for being a slut who couldn't keep her legs crossed?

Thinking aloud - sometimes dangerous - if you say it’s a woman’s right to choose once she’s pregnant then does it make it easier for the fathers to walk away from their responsibilities? On the lines of “If she can’t afford to keep it, she doesn’t have to have it”. I’m not saying that’s an argument against abortion rights, more a possible consequence thereof.

[average joe]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

So, what's the solution?

Vanishingly few women use abortion as birth control, there will be a few of course, but much like benefit cheats, that minority are part of the price for making something vital available to those who need it.

Onto your specific extreme edge case, a 16 year old on her 3rd abortion most likely has some issues going on whether it's as simple as being too uneducated to know about contraception or perhaps historic abuse leading to hypersexuality at a young age. Whatever it is they're unlikely to be fit to bring a child into the world and raise it, yet also unlikely to be able to afford their own abortions if forced to pay for it, so what's the solution?

My specific extreme edge case is very common were I'm from.

I'm not qualified to comment on the mental state of a 16 year old (and in SA's case even younger than that sometimes) that is on her 3rd abortion. I'm all for using the funds allocated for abortions to fund some sort of program for young girls on the dangers of unprotected sex.

[average joe]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

You're now arguing both for and against elective surgery being funded. You don't even agree with yourself on this

My mom had no say in getting cancer.

[average joe]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

Presumably there's a lad or lads involved in your grim little '3 abortions by 16' scenario. Possibly an uncle. Or maybe a brother. Are you suggesting this girl bears all the responsibility for her pregnancy and the equally "promiscuous" father(s) needn't concern themselves with contraception and the like? Is it all the girl's fault for being a slut who couldn't keep her legs crossed?

Don't be daft, obviously the one with the dangly bits also has a responsibility. Going into forced sex, whether it's rape or incest or both is also obviously not the case I'm arguing about here.

[Lobby]

I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?

You're now arguing both for and against elective surgery being funded. You don't even agree with yourself on this

My mom had no say in getting cancer.

What about people who smoke, drink or eat lots of fast food? Should they have to pay for cancer treatment as their lifestyle choices increased their risk of cancer?

[average joe]

You saying my mom's a fat bint and don't deserve cancer treatment? I'll have you know my mom lived a healthy life. Never smoked, never drank, watched her weight and a good person with a beautiful personality to boot. Fuck knows why she got breast cancer but such is the way of the world I guess. She payed for most of the treatment through her medical aid anyways, just they don't cover reconstruction and she had to pay separately for that.

[Calculon]

Don't be daft, obviously the one with the dangly bits also has a responsibility. Going into forced sex, whether it's rape or incest or both is also obviously not the case I'm arguing about here.

Where are you from in SA? SA has a very low rate of abortion, 4.3 per 100 000 women according to the web, and as far as I can tell, that rate has also been on a steady decline for years.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

There is still a problem with illegal abortions, but presumable you don’t have a problem with them since they aren’t tax payer funded. The idea that it is not only common, but indeed according to you very common, for girls 16 and younger to be on their third abortion because they like sex too much, and for there to be no form of abuse involved is fairly extraordinary.

FWIW I think SA’s abortion laws are pretty sensible

In South Africa, a woman of any age can get an abortion on request with no reasons given if she is less than 12 weeks pregnant. If she is between 13 and 20 weeks pregnant, she can get the abortion if (a) her own physical or mental health is at stake, (b) the baby will have severe mental or physical abnormalities, (c) she is pregnant because of incest, (d) she is pregnant because of rape, or (e) she is of the personal opinion that her economic or social situation is sufficient reason for the termination of pregnancy. If she is more than 20 weeks pregnant, she can get the abortion only if her or the fetus' life is in danger or there are likely to be serious birth defects

[Tichtheid]

... a quick Google (told) me that ...

Gallup polls show Americans’ support for abortion in all or most cases at 80% in May 2021

^^^ So why your shrieking hysteria???
Abortion rights will now be decided by the people on a state by state basis.
Given your quoted statistic, we can surely expect every state to overwhelmingly grant women abortion on demand.

Or, you Silly Billy, have you once more allowed your MSM manipulators to make an ass of you yet again by conning you into believing that today's decision makes abortions illegal throughout the United States forevermore ???

Blimey, my mainstream media manipulators, eh?

You missed out, "Do your own research"
That's what they say, isn't it?

Abortion is now illegal or heavily restricted in at least 11 states following the Supreme Court's historic decision Friday to overturn Roe v. Wade. Twelve other states have laws in place that pave the way to quickly ban or severely restrict access to them, according to research from the Guttmacher Institute, a group that favors abortion rights. Several additional states appear likely to pass new laws.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... 6156896020

Before I go further, someone up there mentioned that the difference between this development and the gun laws in New York is the 2nd amendment in the constitution.
Abortion was found to be allowable by the right to privacy and the right to freedom enshrined in the constitution.

Those rights have now been removed for women who will be forced to go through with a pregnancy against their will, this doesn't get the State out of peoples' lives, it does exactly the opposite.

Currently it is not illegal to travel to other states for medical care, Roe v Wade was said to be set in stone, how long before it is made illegal to go to another state for an abortion?


Warning, this is from the NYT, best put on a tinfoil hat before reading this to keep the mind-controlling beams at bay.

There are currently no abortion bans that attempt to prosecute women who cross state lines to seek an abortion.

However, states could try in the future, said David Cohen, a law professor at Drexel University. “There is no guarantee that an aggressive prosecutor might try to stretch the law as much as they can.”

In his concurring decision, Justice Brett Kavanaugh suggested that women who travel to neighboring states to receive an abortion would be protected by the constitutional right to interstate travel.

People who assist a women seeking an abortion in a neighboring state could also be at risk of prosecution.

“It’s hard to tell at this point, but I think it’s likely that [the prosecutors] will go after the people that help the woman get the abortion,” he said. “The person who drives them, the doctor who sees them.”

Both Texas and Oklahoma recently passed abortion bans that allow private citizens to sue people who perform abortions or who otherwise help someone get one.

Many organizations are still encouraging patients who cannot seek an abortion in their home state to travel across state lines to receive care, including a handful of companies that have pledged to cover travel expenses for employees who need abortions.

“People should travel, people should get care wherever they can,” said Mr. Cohen. “But it’s not a simple answer.”

[Slick]

well done, enjoyed that!

[Iain(bobbity)]

The Arkansas law that is in effect as of today has no exceptions for rape or incest.

It has no exceptions for medical conditions that will cause still birth or death shortly after birth.

[Jockaline]

Don't be daft, obviously the one with the dangly bits also has a responsibility. Going into forced sex, whether it's rape or incest or both is also obviously not the case I'm arguing about here.

Where are you from in SA? SA has a very low rate of abortion, 4.3 per 100 000 women according to the web, and as far as I can tell, that rate has also been on a steady decline for years.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

There is still a problem with illegal abortions, but presumable you don’t have a problem with them since they aren’t tax payer funded. The idea that it is not only common, but indeed according to you very common, for girls 16 and younger to be on their third abortion because they like sex too much, and for there to be no form of abuse involved is fairly extraordinary.

FWIW I think SA’s abortion laws are pretty sensible

In South Africa, a woman of any age can get an abortion on request with no reasons given if she is less than 12 weeks pregnant. If she is between 13 and 20 weeks pregnant, she can get the abortion if (a) her own physical or mental health is at stake, (b) the baby will have severe mental or physical abnormalities, (c) she is pregnant because of incest, (d) she is pregnant because of rape, or (e) she is of the personal opinion that her economic or social situation is sufficient reason for the termination of pregnancy. If she is more than 20 weeks pregnant, she can get the abortion only if her or the fetus' life is in danger or there are likely to be serious birth defects

Good post

[Uncle fester]

The Arkansas law that is in effect as of today has no exceptions for rape or incest.

It has no exceptions for medical conditions that will cause still birth or death shortly after birth.

Basically reverted to what the Irish law used to be.

[Slick]

well done, enjoyed that!

Was that meant to be a text to your missus?

That would be pre texting

[laurent]

When Fester? Many many years ago

Not that long ago : 4 years

[laurent]

When Fester? Many many years ago

Not that long ago : 4 years

That's a myth. Many many abortions were carried out each year legally and within hospitals long prior to 4 years ago. Savita was a medical error not that they didn't have the tools available to them. Giving an abortion for mental health reasons was happening anyway but fully approved following the x case in the early 90's. This was because after 1983 the mother's life was equal. The numbers of abortions per year from what I recall were certainly in the 100's. I've never understood how this was not clearly understood.

Talking about legalisation here

[Uncle fester]

I'm guessing you're referring to the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 legislation? The one that finally came through 20 odd years after the electorate made it clear they didn't want a total ban on abortion.