President Trump and US politics catchall

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notfatcat
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Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:45 pm
notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:42 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:36 pm


I wanted to answer this again on a separate issue.

What about rape?
It's worth debating but why pick such an extreme example?

Because it's the bleeding obvious example where the perpetrator is probably not looking at ovulation cycles or looking at the moon.

Should abortion be available for rape cases?
I don't know. I watched a talk by a young woman who was the result of her mother being raped. I think she was grateful to be alive.

Are you saying that because there are cases of pregnancy through rape that any woman should be able to have an abortion whenever she wants to?
Chris Jack, 67 test All Black - "I was voted most useless and laziest cunt in the English Premiership two years on the trot"
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Gumboot
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notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:45 pm
Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:41 pm
notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:16 pm

It's probably a better last resort than killing unborn babies. Better still, how about people learn about ovulation/menstrual cycles and exercise some self control and responsibility. Contraception is available for those unwilling or unable to do so.
Not sure exercising self control and using contraception would be high on the list of a rapist's priorities, though.

Edit: Tichtheild beat me to it.
Would you support banning abortion other than in rape/incest cases?
No. But I'm not a woman so it's not my call to make. And I'm not religious so don't have to deal with all that baggage, either.

Do you believe in a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body?
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notfatcat
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Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:49 pm
notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:45 pm
Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:41 pm

Not sure exercising self control and using contraception would be high on the list of a rapist's priorities, though.

Edit: Tichtheild beat me to it.
Would you support banning abortion other than in rape/incest cases?
No. But I'm not a woman so it's not my call to make. And I'm not religious so don't have to deal with all that baggage, either.

Do you believe in a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body?
Yes, but not an unborn child's body. That has nothing to do with religion, just basic morality.
Chris Jack, 67 test All Black - "I was voted most useless and laziest cunt in the English Premiership two years on the trot"
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notfatcat
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Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:49 pm
notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:45 pm
Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:41 pm

Not sure exercising self control and using contraception would be high on the list of a rapist's priorities, though.

Edit: Tichtheild beat me to it.
Would you support banning abortion other than in rape/incest cases?
No. But I'm not a woman so it's not my call to make. And I'm not religious so don't have to deal with all that baggage, either.

Do you believe in a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body?
Also, just to say - so rape is irrelevant to your own beliefs about abortion. Correct?
Chris Jack, 67 test All Black - "I was voted most useless and laziest cunt in the English Premiership two years on the trot"
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Tichtheid
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notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:47 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:45 pm
notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:42 pm

It's worth debating but why pick such an extreme example?

Because it's the bleeding obvious example where the perpetrator is probably not looking at ovulation cycles or looking at the moon.

Should abortion be available for rape cases?
I don't know. I watched a talk by a young woman who was the result of her mother being raped. I think she was grateful to be alive.

Are you saying that because there are cases of pregnancy through rape that any woman should be able to have an abortion whenever she wants to?

For me, I support the woman's absolute right to chose to terminate any pregnancy at any point, it is her body, her choice, I support the right of the individual in this.

The people who do not support the rights of the individual in this are almost always in a Venn diagram circle with those who shout loudest about individual freedoms and gun ownership
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Gumboot
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@notfatcat

*yawn* I'd forgotten just how tedious your PR-level trolling was. Bye.
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notfatcat
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Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:59 pm @notfatcat

*yawn* I'd forgotten just how tedious your PR-level trolling was. Bye.
Oh boo hoo. Someone disagrees with you and you act like a big fanny.
Chris Jack, 67 test All Black - "I was voted most useless and laziest cunt in the English Premiership two years on the trot"
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Tichtheid
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Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:59 pm @notfatcat

*yawn* I'd forgotten just how tedious your PR-level trolling was. Bye.

I think that if you play these people with a straight bat they always wind up kneeing themselves in the face, because their logic is so flawed it doesn't stand up to just a simple series of questions for which there are factual answers, as opposed to warped opinions.
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notfatcat
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Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:58 pm
notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:47 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:45 pm


Because it's the bleeding obvious example where the perpetrator is probably not looking at ovulation cycles or looking at the moon.

Should abortion be available for rape cases?
I don't know. I watched a talk by a young woman who was the result of her mother being raped. I think she was grateful to be alive.

Are you saying that because there are cases of pregnancy through rape that any woman should be able to have an abortion whenever she wants to?

For me, I support the woman's absolute right to chose to terminate any pregnancy at any point, it is her body, her choice, I support the right of the individual in this.

The people who do not support the rights of the individual in this are almost always in a Venn diagram circle with those who shout loudest about individual freedoms and gun ownership
It's not just her body though is it, it's the unborn child's and only one of them is being intentionally killed. Plus it seems like you partly justify your position on abortion by your contempt for other irrelevant issues.
Chris Jack, 67 test All Black - "I was voted most useless and laziest cunt in the English Premiership two years on the trot"
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notfatcat
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Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:07 pm
Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:59 pm @notfatcat

*yawn* I'd forgotten just how tedious your PR-level trolling was. Bye.

I think that if you play these people with a straight bat they always wind up kneeing themselves in the face, because their logic is so flawed it doesn't stand up to just a simple series of questions for which there are factual answers, as opposed to warped opinions.
Have you pointed out any flaws in my logic?
Chris Jack, 67 test All Black - "I was voted most useless and laziest cunt in the English Premiership two years on the trot"
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Tichtheid
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notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:08 pm

It's not just her body though is it, it's the unborn child's and only one of them is being intentionally killed. Plus it seems like you partly justify your position on abortion by your contempt for other irrelevant issues.

It is her body.

The mass of genes she carries isn't a viable human until around 24 weeks

That is six months.

However, it does beg the question(s),

Why do you demand control over a woman?

Why do you presume that what she does is up to you?
Last edited by Tichtheid on Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tichtheid
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notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:09 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:07 pm
Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:59 pm @notfatcat

*yawn* I'd forgotten just how tedious your PR-level trolling was. Bye.

I think that if you play these people with a straight bat they always wind up kneeing themselves in the face, because their logic is so flawed it doesn't stand up to just a simple series of questions for which there are factual answers, as opposed to warped opinions.
Have you pointed out any flaws in my logic?
Well, yes, obviously,

We are talking about women and you are not one
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Gumboot
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Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:07 pm
Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:59 pm @notfatcat

*yawn* I'd forgotten just how tedious your PR-level trolling was. Bye.

I think that if you play these people with a straight bat they always wind up kneeing themselves in the face, because their logic is so flawed it doesn't stand up to just a simple series of questions for which there are factual answers, as opposed to warped opinions.
Pointless engaging with them at all, imho. It's just another pathetic Bimbo-lite level wind-up for his own amusement.
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Tichtheid
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Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:22 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:07 pm
Gumboot wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:59 pm @notfatcat

*yawn* I'd forgotten just how tedious your PR-level trolling was. Bye.

I think that if you play these people with a straight bat they always wind up kneeing themselves in the face, because their logic is so flawed it doesn't stand up to just a simple series of questions for which there are factual answers, as opposed to warped opinions.
Pointless engaging with them at all, imho. It's just another pathetic Bimbo-lite level wind-up for his own amusement.

Yeah, I get that, but every time I see people punching down it makes me want to punch back.

They are what is wrong with everything, and I do mean everything.
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notfatcat
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Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:18 pm
notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:08 pm

It's not just her body though is it, it's the unborn child's and only one of them is being intentionally killed. Plus it seems like you partly justify your position on abortion by your contempt for other irrelevant issues.

It is her body.

The mass of genes she carries isn't a viable human until around 24 weeks

That is six months.

However, it does beg the question(s),

Why do you demand control over a woman?

Why do you presume that what she does is up to you?
No, it's the unborn child's body. Your last two questions are just silly.
Chris Jack, 67 test All Black - "I was voted most useless and laziest cunt in the English Premiership two years on the trot"
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Tichtheid
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notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:45 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:18 pm
notfatcat wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:08 pm

It's not just her body though is it, it's the unborn child's and only one of them is being intentionally killed. Plus it seems like you partly justify your position on abortion by your contempt for other irrelevant issues.

It is her body.

The mass of genes she carries isn't a viable human until around 24 weeks

That is six months.

However, it does beg the question(s),

Why do you demand control over a woman?

Why do you presume that what she does is up to you?
No, it's the unborn child's body. Your last two questions are just silly.

They are only silly if you think the woman's worth is less than yours

The thing is there is no equivalent, bar mandatory sterilisation or similar, for men. Perhaps that is why men can't see this, but it does make you look stupid, trying to tell women what they can and can't do.

You pretend it's about the unborn child, but it's not an unborn child until at least six months, you ignore the science

It's all about misogynistic control.
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notfatcat
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Oh I see, this is all about equality of the sexes. Okay.
Chris Jack, 67 test All Black - "I was voted most useless and laziest cunt in the English Premiership two years on the trot"
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Tichtheid
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In fact, mandatory sterilisation is not in any way similar because there are no consequences to it, not in the way there are consequences to carrying a pregnancy to full term


I haven't seen one of these extremists guarantee costs for these unwanted pregnancies, they tend to abandon the consequences of their own warped morality.


Hypocrites.
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notfatcat
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I guess when you happen upon a woman who's anti-abortion you just put it down to internalised misogyny. She's probably pretending to care about unborn babies.
Chris Jack, 67 test All Black - "I was voted most useless and laziest cunt in the English Premiership two years on the trot"
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Tichtheid
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notfatcat wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:02 am I guess when you happen upon a woman who's anti-abortion you just put it down to internalised misogyny. She's probably pretending to care about unborn babies.

I fully acknowledge any woman's prerogative to hold any point of view they see fit, however a quick Google didn't provide me with the percentage of women in favour of abortion, it did tell me that, from Forbes,
Gallup polls show Americans’ support for abortion in all or most cases at 80% in May 2021
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Tichtheid
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By the way, and as per a post I made earlier, now that they've tackled Roe v Wade, how long should the Supreme Court take to, and I quote

"Justice Thomas: SCOTUS ‘should reconsider’ contraception, same-sex marriage rulings.” That is a quote from Justice Thomas.

Should they go after the contraception first or the gays?

I'm thinking the gays, that would be easier, on the other had if they go after contraception it will link with the anti-abortion stuff, or maybe if they make contraception illegal is would mean there are more abortions, for those who don't follow the moon cycles, obviously.

It's a tough one.
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Gumboot
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Image
Biffer
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Yep, all of those are on the list now. Utterly disgusting from a bunch of extremist religious fundamentalists
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
Wilson's Toffee
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Yet, the right to abortion still stands in the States that agree with it, and other States can agree with it, as well. What does not stand, any more, is the right of the Federal courts to usurp (i.e. infringe upon the States right to decide) authority.
Whether they condone abortion or not, is mute. The States now have a chance to unshackled themselves from overbearing Federal dictates,
convoluted
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Tichtheid wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:18 am
... a quick Google (told) me that ...
Gallup polls show Americans’ support for abortion in all or most cases at 80% in May 2021
^^^ So why your shrieking hysteria???
Abortion rights will now be decided by the people on a state by state basis.
Given your quoted statistic, we can surely expect every state to overwhelmingly grant women abortion on demand.

Or, you Silly Billy, have you once more allowed your MSM manipulators to make an ass of you yet again by conning you into believing that today's decision makes abortions illegal throughout the United States forevermore ???
Wilson's Toffee
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:thumbup:
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Gumboot
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Wilson's Toffee wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:10 am Yet, the right to abortion still stands in the States that agree with it, and other States can agree with it, as well. What does not stand, any more, is the right of the Federal courts to usurp (i.e. infringe upon the States right to decide) authority.
Whether they condone abortion or not, is mute. The States now have a chance to unshackled themselves from overbearing Federal dictates,
Yet, a mere 24 hours previously, they'd taken the opposite view when overturning a NY State gun control law.
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Hugo
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convoluted wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:48 am
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:18 am
... a quick Google (told) me that ...
Gallup polls show Americans’ support for abortion in all or most cases at 80% in May 2021
^^^ So why your shrieking hysteria???
Abortion rights will now be decided by the people on a state by state basis.
The point is it should be decided by the people on an person by person basis.

The government should not be infringing on the rights of individuals to determine what they can do with their bodies.
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average joe
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I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?
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Calculon
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average joe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:52 am I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?
You do have a say. Vote for a different government, start a campaign to remove government funding for abortions, move to a different country.
sefton
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average joe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:52 am I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?
So do you believe you should have a say over all health spending?
Rhubarb & Custard
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average joe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:52 am I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?
So whether or not you agree with them on the policy you'd support the idea that those in favour of defunding the police can have their taxes cut or actually have a corresponding cut in police services?
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Kiwias
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Gumboot wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:56 am
Wilson's Toffee wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:10 am Yet, the right to abortion still stands in the States that agree with it, and other States can agree with it, as well. What does not stand, any more, is the right of the Federal courts to usurp (i.e. infringe upon the States right to decide) authority.
Whether they condone abortion or not, is mute. The States now have a chance to unshackled themselves from overbearing Federal dictates,
Yet, a mere 24 hours previously, they'd taken the opposite view when overturning a NY State gun control law.
We must all have missed WT's post declaring his outrage at such a blatant usurpation (usurpery?) of state's rights in that case.
GogLais
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Kiwias wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:48 am
Gumboot wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:56 am
Wilson's Toffee wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:10 am Yet, the right to abortion still stands in the States that agree with it, and other States can agree with it, as well. What does not stand, any more, is the right of the Federal courts to usurp (i.e. infringe upon the States right to decide) authority.
Whether they condone abortion or not, is mute. The States now have a chance to unshackled themselves from overbearing Federal dictates,
Yet, a mere 24 hours previously, they'd taken the opposite view when overturning a NY State gun control law.
We must all have missed WT's post declaring his outrage at such a blatant usurpation (usurpery?) of state's rights in that case.
Maybe something to do with the Constitution specifically dealing with the right to bear arms?
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average joe
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I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?
sockwithaticket
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average joe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:52 am I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?
I'd prefer that my taxes went to increasing nurses salaries rather than bogus PPE ontracts for Tory donors or contribute to divisive faith schools, but that's not how it works. We don't get to send in a form with a tick list of things we're ok with it being spent on.
I like neeps
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sefton wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:24 am
average joe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:52 am I have no problem with woman deciding what should happen to their own bodies. I have a problem with the state or anyone ells telling me I should pay for it though. And then being told I don't have a say because it's not my body, well it's my money and I should have a say in how its spent?
So do you believe you should have a say over all health spending?
Why stop there? Every single piece of government expenditure should be run past average joe.
sockwithaticket
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average joe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:07 am I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?
So, what's the solution?

Vanishingly few women use abortion as birth control, there will be a few of course, but much like benefit cheats, that minority are part of the price for making something vital available to those who need it.

Onto your specific extreme edge case, a 16 year old on her 3rd abortion most likely has some issues going on whether it's as simple as being too uneducated to know about contraception or perhaps historic abuse leading to hypersexuality at a young age. Whatever it is they're unlikely to be fit to bring a child into the world and raise it, yet also unlikely to be able to afford their own abortions if forced to pay for it, so what's the solution?
Rhubarb & Custard
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average joe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:07 am I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?
You're now arguing both for and against elective surgery being funded. You don't even agree with yourself on this
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Gumboot
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average joe wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:07 am I don't think it's fair that a 16 year old girl gets her 3rd abortion and I have to fit the bill via taxation, and I don't get to have a say just because I was born with dangly bits between my legs.
It's my hard earned money and I get taxed into oblivion as it is so that SA politicians can line their pockets. Why should I pay for some young lady somewhere to have unprotected sex?
If you get banged up because of a promiscuous lifestyle and decide you want to abort then pay for it with your own damn money.

Why should you get a free abortion any and every time you get banged up if my mom had to pay out of her own pocket for breast reconstruction after her mastectomy?
Presumably there's a lad or lads involved in your grim little '3 abortions by 16' scenario. Possibly an uncle. Or maybe a brother. Are you suggesting this girl bears all the responsibility for her pregnancy and the equally "promiscuous" father(s) needn't concern themselves with contraception and the like? Is it all the girl's fault for being a slut who couldn't keep her legs crossed?
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