I would have no hesitation on pulling the trigger on these c*nts

[dpedin]

Worked for Social Services..childrens services, adults, all 9ver, hardest job you could ever wish for.
Turns out childrens information is protected by law and any mistakes can make the person inputting it legally responsible.

So what get is massive data errors everywhere, as Social workers do not want to touch it, or input information incase it is wrong.. admin staff are terrified of touching it and the whole information side is a mess and the whole thing is left to temps.
The Tories did away with Joint Reviews (that labour put in place) as they didn't want Social Services departments across the country to face the same scrutiny they used to beat the previous labour government over the head with..
If you worked in Social Services during a joint review, my gawd..you were in for it.

Christ, the tales I could tell.
Nothing but respect for Joint Review teams that used to cut through departments like a hot knife through butter, digging out all the incompetence.

Things I used to say to my Boss.
" Am I being used as a Scapegoat for the disaster in Childrens Services"
" Do you really think you (or the department) are worth saving".
"Do you mind me asking why he left"
" Sorry if I looked fucking horrified there for a Second" (when he was screaming at someone in the phone).
Things my boss used to say to me
"If it is me or you, its you".


Happy days.

I sympathise - it is difficult! I remember the situation up here in Scotland when the SG wanted to increase the numbers and role of Teachers/midwives/Health Visitors and use them as a Named Person - a single point of contact for each and every child in Scotland. Concept was developed as part of the 'Getting it Right for Every Child' strategy. The opposition to this was huge - talk of Big Brother, nazi police, snoopers on parents etc from all the usual suspects. Tories et al decided we should rely on parents who know best what their children need and this was just an example of unwarranted state intervention. Implementation got derailed in courts due to same concerns as mentioned above about information management and sharing between agencies etc - all things that could have been resolved if the desire was there. Its implementation was derailed. The opponents to the Named Person will now no doubt be the same folk who are now baying for blood and the heads of the education, NHS, social work, etc in this horrible horrible case.

[Lobby]

Like others I couldn’t read much of it, must spare a thought for all the police, etc involved that couldn’t hop onto another NPR thread when it was too much to handle.

Spare a thought for the jurors as well, who had to listen to all the evidence, including the recordings of him being tortured, for 8 weeks. I can’t begin to imagine how distressing that must have been.

Good on them too for asking the court to observe a minutes silence at the end of trial after they had delivered their verdict.

[Uncle fester]

Like others I couldn’t read much of it, must spare a thought for all the police, etc involved that couldn’t hop onto another NPR thread when it was too much to handle.

Spare a thought for the jurors as well, who had to listen to all the evidence, including the recordings of him being tortured, for 8 weeks. I can’t begin to imagine how distressing that must have been.

Good on them too for asking the court to observe a minutes silence at the end of trial after they had delivered their verdict.

Good point. I'd be needing professional counseling after an experience like that.

[Slick]

Like others I couldn’t read much of it, must spare a thought for all the police, etc involved that couldn’t hop onto another NPR thread when it was too much to handle.

Spare a thought for the jurors as well, who had to listen to all the evidence, including the recordings of him being tortured, for 8 weeks. I can’t begin to imagine how distressing that must have been.

Good on them too for asking the court to observe a minutes silence at the end of trial after they had delivered their verdict.

Good point. I'd be needing professional counseling after an experience like that.

Haven’t they been excused having to do jury duty again for life?

[dpedin]

Spare a thought for the jurors as well, who had to listen to all the evidence, including the recordings of him being tortured, for 8 weeks. I can’t begin to imagine how distressing that must have been.

Good on them too for asking the court to observe a minutes silence at the end of trial after they had delivered their verdict.

Good point. I'd be needing professional counseling after an experience like that.

Haven’t they been excused having to do jury duty again for life?

I was a juror for case in High Court in Embra which involved a teenage girl being sexually abused by her older brother. It wasn't easy, lasted a week. Judge said we would all be excused from jury duty again. Whole case dealt with very professionally and sympathetically by the court and its staff.

[Torquemada 1420]

29 years in jail for step-mother and 21 for the father.
Arthur was the same age as my little boy.

I would say "unbelievable". Except the "justice" system in the UK remains a joke.

[Hellraiser]

Guilty as charged, lets hope there is a warm welcome waiting for them in jail.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... m=referral

They won't be in gen pop. They wouldn't last a week.

[ia801310]

29 years in jail for step-mother and 21 for the father.
Arthur was the same age as my little boy.

I would say "unbelievable". Except the "justice" system in the UK remains a joke.

Joke of a sentence, I hope it is increased on appeal.

Amazed how much of an impact this has had, Premier League matches have been stopped so the players can pay tribute to him.
Was an article saying that experienced criminal barristers have found this the most upsetting case they have ever read about.

I must admit that I am in my 40s and I have never had a news story upset me as much as this story. I think it is because of the recordings and the fact I have a young son too. It is so upsetting.

The killers should never breathe free air again. I imagine they will have an extremely tough time in prison.

[Enzedder]

Guilty as charged, lets hope there is a warm welcome waiting for them in jail.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... m=referral

They won't be in gen pop. They wouldn't last a week.

Put them there just before their parole hearing

[Grandpa]

29 years in jail for step-mother and 21 for the father.
Arthur was the same age as my little boy.

I would say "unbelievable". Except the "justice" system in the UK remains a joke.

Joke of a sentence, I hope it is increased on appeal.

Amazed how much of an impact this has had, Premier League matches have been stopped so the players can pay tribute to him.
Was an article saying that experienced criminal barristers have found this the most upsetting case they have ever read about.

I must admit that I am in my 40s and I have never had a news story upset me as much as this story. I think it is because of the recordings and the fact I have a young son too. It is so upsetting.

The killers should never breathe free air again. I imagine they will have an extremely tough time in prison.

Baby P was pretty horrific too at the time. Included rape as well as physical abuse over an 8 month period. Only two years old. Similarly light sentences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Baby_P

[Torquemada 1420]

I would say "unbelievable". Except the "justice" system in the UK remains a joke.

Joke of a sentence, I hope it is increased on appeal.

Amazed how much of an impact this has had, Premier League matches have been stopped so the players can pay tribute to him.
Was an article saying that experienced criminal barristers have found this the most upsetting case they have ever read about.

I must admit that I am in my 40s and I have never had a news story upset me as much as this story. I think it is because of the recordings and the fact I have a young son too. It is so upsetting.

The killers should never breathe free air again. I imagine they will have an extremely tough time in prison.

Baby P was pretty horrific too at the time. Included rape as well as physical abuse over an 8 month period. Only two years old. Similarly light sentences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Baby_P

The UK's legal focus whereby crimes against property are penalised more heavily than those against the person. Wonder why that might be......?

[inactionman]

Joke of a sentence, I hope it is increased on appeal.

Amazed how much of an impact this has had, Premier League matches have been stopped so the players can pay tribute to him.
Was an article saying that experienced criminal barristers have found this the most upsetting case they have ever read about.

I must admit that I am in my 40s and I have never had a news story upset me as much as this story. I think it is because of the recordings and the fact I have a young son too. It is so upsetting.

The killers should never breathe free air again. I imagine they will have an extremely tough time in prison.

Baby P was pretty horrific too at the time. Included rape as well as physical abuse over an 8 month period. Only two years old. Similarly light sentences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Baby_P

The UK's legal focus whereby crimes against property are penalised more heavily than those against the person. Wonder why that might be......?

Case Law going back a Millenia?

[Torquemada 1420]

The UK's legal focus whereby crimes against property are penalised more heavily than those against the person. Wonder why that might be......?

Case Law going back a Millenia?

Whose roots are driven by the privileged. The privileged rarely are victims of crimes against the person (more likely to be the perpetrators. Hello Prince Andrew). They are the ones who have monetary value to lose.

[inactionman]

The UK's legal focus whereby crimes against property are penalised more heavily than those against the person. Wonder why that might be......?

Case Law going back a Millenia?

Whose roots are driven by the privileged. The privileged rarely are victims of crimes against the person (more likely to be the perpetrators. Hello Prince Andrew). They are the ones who have monetary value to lose.

I think its also a function of changing societal views. The Vikings - who have had a footing in this country - used to punish theft particularly viciously, much more so than crimes against person.

[ia801310]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17012157/ ... on-prison/

Not a surprise, I wonder if she will ever be able to be re-integrated into the general prison population?

[ia801310]

Another awful case. 18 month old Star Hobson abused and murdered by her stepmother.

I see the Head of Children Services at Bradford Partnership has resigned.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ghter.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... e-her.html

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16973639/ ... son-death/

[Uncle fester]

The last time I came across anything that made me question human capacity for evil as much was watching a netflix documentary about WW2 einsazgruppen murder squads.
Couldn't finish it but what struck me was that the nazis understood that most humans couldn't do (or keep doing) these sort of crimes without some sort of conditioning.

What is galling about these cases is that the perps didn't seem to need any conditioning. Small children are the most vulnerable, helpless creatures most of us will ever encounter.
What's wired wrong in their brains that they can do these things? Furthermore, how on earth do they think they won't be caught?

[ia801310]

Article about the similarities between Star Hobson and Arthur Labinjo Hughes

What angers me is that in both cases Social Services were told time and time and again about Arthur and Star still died.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-chilling ... s-12495643

[Niegs]

The last time I came across anything that made me question human capacity for evil as much was watching a netflix documentary about WW2 einsazgruppen murder squads.
Couldn't finish it but what struck me was that the nazis understood that most humans couldn't do (or keep doing) these sort of crimes without some sort of conditioning.

What is galling about these cases is that the perps didn't seem to need any conditioning. Small children are the most vulnerable, helpless creatures most of us will ever encounter.
What's wired wrong in their brains that they can do these things? Furthermore, how on earth do they think they won't be caught?

And that two such psychopaths found each other? Or maybe one 'groomed' the other?

I haven't read extensively about the case, but a couple basically equally guilty in an abuse/murder case reminds me of Karla Homolka / Paul Bernardo...

Spoiler

Show

In a graphic and disturbing video shown to the public and court officials, Karla Homolka, dressed as her dead sister, Tammy Homolka, serves Paul Bernardo sexually and promises to help him find more "virgins."

The first segment of the video, labeled "Karla, Tammy and Me" by Bernardo, was not shown to the public or the media.

Prosecutors explained that what spectators heard and court officials saw in the first segment was Bernardo and Karla Homolka stalking, raping and sexually abusing the drugged and unconscious Tammy, 15, who died a few hours after the video was shot, between Dec. 23 and 24, 1990.

Bernardo is charged with the kidnapping, rape and murders of Kristen French, 15, and Leslie Mahaffy, 14.

[Random1]

Article about the similarities between Star Hobson and Arthur Labinjo Hughes

What angers me is that in both cases Social Services were told time and time and again about Arthur and Star still died.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-chilling ... s-12495643

I used to do a fair bit of safeguarding stuff alongside social services in the mid 2000s and what always struck me was the passiveness of the social workers. There’s seemed to be a culture of them seeing themselves as a support function rather than a law enforcement function.

One of the things I’d always hoped for was for social services to switch over to the police rather the council. It’d shorten the lines between intervention and criminal prosecution.

But that was back when we trusted the police a bit more!

[shaggy]

Article about the similarities between Star Hobson and Arthur Labinjo Hughes

What angers me is that in both cases Social Services were told time and time and again about Arthur and Star still died.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-chilling ... s-12495643

I used to do a fair bit of safeguarding stuff alongside social services in the mid 2000s and what always struck me was the passiveness of the social workers. There’s seemed to be a culture of them seeing themselves as a support function rather than a law enforcement function.

One of the things I’d always hoped for was for social services to switch over to the police rather the council. It’d shorten the lines between intervention and criminal prosecution.

But that was back when we trusted the police a bit more!

On the flip side when it comes to educational needs the social workers can at times be very vocal and overbearing to the point where they make matters worse.

[Plim]

Social and child services can sometimes be terrible, sure, but in the main I have a lot of sympathy for the people who do those jobs. It’s difficult work. And they’re often damned if they do intervene - the campaigns against separating parents from children or supervision within families are very vociferous - and damned if they don’t, when a child comes to harm.

It’s a tricky line to walk.

[Blackmac]

Social and child services can sometimes be terrible, sure, but in the main I have a lot of sympathy for the people who do those jobs. It’s difficult work. And they’re often damned if they do intervene - the campaigns against separating parents from children or supervision within families are very vociferous - and damned if they don’t, when a child comes to harm.

It’s a tricky line to walk.

It is indeed and as has already been pointed out, social services see themselves, first and foremost as a support mechanising with the ultimate aim of keeping families intact and safe. People also don't comprehend what poor conditions many children live in that are deemed acceptable to the authorities and also the height of the bar that has to be attained before the courts will sanction removing a child from their family.

[Slick]

Social and child services can sometimes be terrible, sure, but in the main I have a lot of sympathy for the people who do those jobs. It’s difficult work. And they’re often damned if they do intervene - the campaigns against separating parents from children or supervision within families are very vociferous - and damned if they don’t, when a child comes to harm.

It’s a tricky line to walk.

Agree. And many people in social services, probation etc have to deal with some real horrors whilst getting paid fuck all and with very limited support

[inactionman]

It looks a near impossible job to me - trying to identify what is genuinely a cause for concern when you're likely to have desperate, hostile and ultimately deceitful parents misleading and blocking your way. Mix that in with a ridiculous workload and it's sadly no real wonder things are missed.

I always wondered how social workers can miss severe injury in these cases, however our adoption process was eye-opening - we couldn't request any medical data, test or service without the express permission of the birth parents and there was almost no circumstance in which we could override it (including in the interests of the child - I presume because the birth parent was in law still the arbiter of that). If this is also true for kids not up for adoption, I can imagine a situation where the social worker is blind to a number of injuries as they haven't enough cause to get medical tests done to show the full extent of the injuries. A horrible thought. (In saying that, you'd hope broken bones would be obvious on even cursory inspection?)

All too bleak for words, frankly.

[JM2K6]

Article about the similarities between Star Hobson and Arthur Labinjo Hughes

What angers me is that in both cases Social Services were told time and time and again about Arthur and Star still died.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-chilling ... s-12495643

I used to do a fair bit of safeguarding stuff alongside social services in the mid 2000s and what always struck me was the passiveness of the social workers. There’s seemed to be a culture of them seeing themselves as a support function rather than a law enforcement function.

One of the things I’d always hoped for was for social services to switch over to the police rather the council. It’d shorten the lines between intervention and criminal prosecution.

But that was back when we trusted the police a bit more!

If all you want from social workers is improved prosecutions, sure. But their remit is a lot more than that and I can't imagine having it be part of the police being a net benefit.

[inactionman]

Article about the similarities between Star Hobson and Arthur Labinjo Hughes

What angers me is that in both cases Social Services were told time and time and again about Arthur and Star still died.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-chilling ... s-12495643

I used to do a fair bit of safeguarding stuff alongside social services in the mid 2000s and what always struck me was the passiveness of the social workers. There’s seemed to be a culture of them seeing themselves as a support function rather than a law enforcement function.

One of the things I’d always hoped for was for social services to switch over to the police rather the council. It’d shorten the lines between intervention and criminal prosecution.

But that was back when we trusted the police a bit more!

If all you want from social workers is improved prosecutions, sure. But their remit is a lot more than that and I can't imagine having it be part of the police being a net benefit.

My missus is a nurse and there's been a lot of interest in many countries in more closely aligning social and medical care - although this is focused more on providing support networks to aid rehabilitation and to prevent health decline prior to needing medical care, there's still a role in flagging where social care/protection is required based upon medical evidence. Purely anecdotal, but it appears difficulty in identifying physical abuse is a constant feature in these horrible cases.

[ia801310]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... laims.html

Life sentence, minimum tern 25 years, absolute joke of a sentence.

[Torquemada 1420]

More lenient sentencing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-59754035

[GogLais]

More lenient sentencing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-59754035

Extraordinary, especially when the CPS describes it as one of the worst cases they’ve come across.

[Grandpa]

What a nasty evil bunch of cunts... and his mother still trying to deny her part...

The Sun: Logan Mwangi’s ‘pure evil’ teen killer Craig Mulligan unmasked as he’s jailed for life alongside boy’s mum....
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19045236/ ... r-stepdad/

[ia801310]

What a nasty evil bunch of cunts... and his mother still trying to deny her part...

The Sun: Logan Mwangi’s ‘pure evil’ teen killer Craig Mulligan unmasked as he’s jailed for life alongside boy’s mum....
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19045236/ ... r-stepdad/

That's a joke of a sentence. Should be whole life tariff for both of the adults.

[Blackmac]

I used to do a fair bit of safeguarding stuff alongside social services in the mid 2000s and what always struck me was the passiveness of the social workers. There’s seemed to be a culture of them seeing themselves as a support function rather than a law enforcement function.

One of the things I’d always hoped for was for social services to switch over to the police rather the council. It’d shorten the lines between intervention and criminal prosecution.

But that was back when we trusted the police a bit more!

If all you want from social workers is improved prosecutions, sure. But their remit is a lot more than that and I can't imagine having it be part of the police being a net benefit.

My missus is a nurse and there's been a lot of interest in many countries in more closely aligning social and medical care - although this is focused more on providing support networks to aid rehabilitation and to prevent health decline prior to needing medical care, there's still a role in flagging where social care/protection is required based upon medical evidence. Purely anecdotal, but it appears difficulty in identifying physical abuse is a constant feature in these horrible cases.

My wife is also a nurse but sadly Health is generally one of the poorest partners when it comes to identifying safeguarding issues. Always has been and never seemed to improve. To many doctors and nurses can't seem to get past confidentiality issues.

[sockwithaticket]

There are good and bad social services, i have some inside knowledge on the pressure they are under, the amount of local government cuts that have happenned in the last 20 years has put huge pressure on them as in most cases, Social Services take the brunt of it. There are exceptions such as the Shoesmith case where that shitwitch should have been locked away for presiding over such incompetance.

The other problem you have is that parents like this are notoriously cunning in concealing shit like this, they are like Paedo's in that sense, extremely well versed in how to hide their abuse. Unless we invest many many more millions in Social Services we are going to just see more and more cases like this. If of course it is found that SC has dropped the ball here, then they deserve to burn as well. Unfortunately it is not always so black and white.

The same issues you mention exist here in Japan, with a chronically-underfunded system is expected to perform miracles with parents who are masters at concealing their activities, though there are some cases where a given department was aware of the abuse but failed in its duty to take the required action. usually resulting in very young children dying horrific deaths.

I do find it strange that no one has noted that this happened last year and it is very likely that without the lockdowns with the child in school he would have been at less risk and this would have been more likely to have been picked up.

More likely, but hardly guaranteed, unfortunately. Every now and then a case surfaces where just about everything that could go wrong or be missed did and was, with a child fatality as the end result. None of the rest happened during lockdowns. Without wishing to be too glib, I think it is a statistical inevitability. There'll never be a zero chance of it happening, but it could be substantially reduced by re-investing all the money ripped out of social services over the years and then investing more on top of it as a corrective for the chronic neglect of the sector.

[Kawazaki]

Communities used to look out for each other but 'social' media has stripped away much of that nowadays. I read about a couple discovered last week in their house in Ireland that they reckon died in 2020. Nobody missed them for 18 months.

[Kawazaki]

Communities used to look out for each other but 'social' media has stripped away much of that nowadays. I read about a couple discovered last week in their house in Ireland that they reckon died in 2020. Nobody missed them for 18 months.

To be fair they were English so...you know

I certainly know there's a disconnect between how the Irish want the world to perceive what they're like and what they are actually like.

[Slick]

What a nasty evil bunch of cunts... and his mother still trying to deny her part...

The Sun: Logan Mwangi’s ‘pure evil’ teen killer Craig Mulligan unmasked as he’s jailed for life alongside boy’s mum....
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19045236/ ... r-stepdad/

Bit uncomfortable seeing a 14/15 year old described like that to be honest. Sells more papers I suppose

[Masterji]

What a nasty evil bunch of cunts... and his mother still trying to deny her part...

The Sun: Logan Mwangi’s ‘pure evil’ teen killer Craig Mulligan unmasked as he’s jailed for life alongside boy’s mum....
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19045236/ ... r-stepdad/

Bit uncomfortable seeing a 14/15 year old described like that to be honest. Sells more papers I suppose

The shit was as cunning as they come- saw footage of him in Police interview. He should have got at least 20 years