French hopefuls touring Japan

[Torquemada 1420]

Jalibert creates the opportunity again. Lavault f**ks it up again

[Torquemada 1420]

Jalibert again the creator.......

[Torquemada 1420]

Another f**king pen for a player in front of the kicker. Criminal.

[Torquemada 1420]

Flament is just too lightweight for an intl lock.

[Kiwias]

Just in case anyone is wondering, France leading 42 - 16 into injury time now

[Kiwias]

Japan score a try and with the conversion, France win 42 - 23. I picked them to win by 20 so am pretty chuffed.

[Torquemada 1420]

Japan score a try and with the conversion, France win 42 - 23. I picked them to win by 20 so am pretty chuffed.

I had Fra by 32 and it probably should have been nearer that were it not for some hideous handling by Jaminet and Lavault plus the chalked off try due to Lavault's moronic neck roll.

Jalibert was far and away Fra's best player. Pretty happy with the fitness which stood up well in that heat and given how much time Fra played without ball. Bourgarit was excellent for the short period he was on. As I said before this tour, no point selecting Penaud: we know exactly how much a threat he really is.

Glad to see Japan still playing some good rugby and on hard surfaces, they can be a threat.

[TheFrog]

Just finished watching the replay.

I think the score is more a reflection of some of the French players individual superiority physically and technically, but I thought Japan took the game to France for 50 minutes. The first 40 minutes were dominated by Japan, who were superior in the rucks, better organized, faster and more determined. Then the French had thirty minutes where they had possession and individuals made the differences before France ran out of gas and Japan scored that last try.

I think it is stupid to play a game at that temperature and humidity levels. I am not sure France would have won the game that easily in a normal weather environment.

I was shocked by the ability of Japan to create again and again situations where they had 6 men against 3, though they rarely made it count. This is something Galthie will want to review as this could cost us dearly.

Our players had a tendency to get isolated ball in hand in the first half, and conceding penalties or turnover. I thought of Torque who thinks our first choice backrow is shite in the rucks, he may review his judgment here. The fact was that the Japanese had faster reactions and better organization.


Players who stood out for France were Bourgarit (hope he can play the next game), Flament (though he made some mistakes but what a work rate), Jolmes, Tanga, Jalibert (outstanding when he decides to take control of the game but not so good with his kicking game), Moefana (powerhouse, fast and good hands) and of course Penaud.

Our kicking was poor and gave Japan plenty of easy ammunition. Not to mention couple penalties for offside on our own kicks...

[TheFrog]

Oh and I thought the refs had a good game, working well as a team and Mr Murphy almost perfect in his role.

May be he could have speeded up his calls at scrum time, it must be very hard for exhausted props to withstand 500kgs pushing on their bums while waiting to be able to engage.

But other than that, I don't remember a call that I found wrong.

[TheFrog]

The big disappointment for me has to be Bamba. International game after International game, he continues to be suspect at scrim time, giving away penalties in the lose or in the rucks. I am really wondering whether he will ever deliver to his potential.


Our discipline was actually an issue too.

[TheFrog]

Amusing stat, with this 9th consecutive win, France is equalizing its own record which dates back to the... 1930s

[Torquemada 1420]

Just finished watching the replay.

I think the score is more a reflection of some of the French players individual superiority physically and technically, but I thought Japan took the game to France for 50 minutes. The first 40 minutes were dominated by Japan, who were superior in the rucks, better organized, faster and more determined. Then the French had thirty minutes where they had possession and individuals made the differences before France ran out of gas and Japan scored that last try.

I think it is stupid to play a game at that temperature and humidity levels. I am not sure France would have won the game that easily in a normal weather environment.

I was shocked by the ability of Japan to create again and again situations where they had 6 men against 3, though they rarely made it count. This is something Galthie will want to review as this could cost us dearly.

Our players had a tendency to get isolated ball in hand in the first half, and conceding penalties or turnover. I thought of Torque who thinks our first choice backrow is shite in the rucks, he may review his judgment here. The fact was that the Japanese had faster reactions and better organization.


Players who stood out for France were Bourgarit (hope he can play the next game), Flament (though he made some mistakes but what a work rate), Jolmes, Tanga, Jalibert (outstanding when he decides to take control of the game but not so good with his kicking game), Moefana (powerhouse, fast and good hands) and of course Penaud.

Our kicking was poor and gave Japan plenty of easy ammunition. Not to mention couple penalties for offside on our own kicks...

I disagree about running out of gas. If anything, Japan were the ones who tired. Fra lost direction in the last few minutes after a load of subs and when Hastoy and Couilloud came on. I'm not convinced at all about Flament. If work rate is what you want, Le Roux offers that and much more around the park in terms of tackle rate, speed and support lines.

Yup. That's exactly the point about Jalibert. Agree about France in general kicking the ball away aimlessly. It's been a thing of the Galthie era: trying to replicate how the ABs played i.e. pressure opponents to do something with the ball, rely on your defence to turn it over and hit on the counter. And, tbf, some of that has worked well. France really are dangerous on the counter. BUT, the kicking is not accurate enough and they are still the worst side in the world under the high ball...... so up and unders do not scare anyone. Further, with the fwd power they have, there is no need to play that way.

On your last 2 paragraphs, what can I say? I've repeatedly stated that France has a glaring weakness at the breakdown in terms of slowing down opposition ball. Japan (and the ABs) are possibly the 2 worst sides to permit to play with fast ball.

[TheFrog]

Usually, our kicking out of hand is better, allowing the chaser to put pressure on the the receiver. Against Japan, that never happened. So I think we went backward there.

I also think our starting background is just better than the one on display today. For all the hard work Tanga has put in during his shift, he cannot displace Aldritt who is also a better fetcher. Cros does more work than Cretin and is more powerful. I can only see a fully fit Ollivon challenging your favorite Jelonch.


I really want to see Bourgarit play as a starter, I think he could be a good sub for Marchand. He is really good and bring a lot of punch. Hope his injury is not serious.

[TheFrog]

Ah, oh. I forgot... Penaud's defense is still suspect. As a center he is a liability.

On the wing, he has enough pace to turn and catch.

[Torquemada 1420]

I also think our starting background is just better than the one on display today. For all the hard work Tanga has put in during his shift, he cannot displace Aldritt who is also a better fetcher. Cros does more work than Cretin and is more powerful. I can only see a fully fit Ollivon challenging your favorite Jelonch.

Well, I'm not arguing that because other than Ollivon, none of those are players I've suggested should be in for Cros or Jelonch! No-one is displacing Aldritt: he is a nailed on selection.

[La soule]

Nice one. Good victory in Japan. As a reminder, we drew against them last time.

Moefana, Flament, Tanga, Jalibert , Jolmes had good game

Vakatawa did not size his chance and Jaminet is a weak link.

[TheFrog]

Thinking about this game, in the areas for improvement (and therefore things that I did not like) were the ability to respond to the Japanese intensity and speed of action and which translated into too many overlaps, which, thankfully, Japan didn't take advantage of too often (though their first try was a marvel of team work based on this strength) and the number of times when the Japanese jackallers were first on the ball at the breakdown.

[Torquemada 1420]

Thinking about this game, in the areas for improvement (and therefore things that I did not like) were the ability to respond to the Japanese intensity and speed of action and which translated into too many overlaps, which, thankfully, Japan didn't take advantage of too often (though their first try was a marvel of team work based on this strength) and the number of times when the Japanese jackallers were first on the ball at the breakdown.

You can't respond to the Japanese speed. That's a reactive approach that nobody can contain. Japan sacrifices bulk and power for speed and mobility. They play a unique game at 15s which is like 7s across the park. If you let them play that, they will hurt you. The answers are simple and twofold
- don't let them have the ball unnecessarily i.e. stop the stupid kicking.
- use the fwds to grind them down. It's not pretty and won't please the neutrals, but it is what it is.
The other aspect is when they get the ball, because there will be periods where they do have it. And that means slowing down their ruck ball. This is a mandatory aspect at any level of the game these days and given Japan's size, should be easier. But, again, France's 2 weakest points are catching a high ball and attacking opposition rucks.

[Torquemada 1420]

Nice one. Good victory in Japan. As a reminder, we drew against them last time.

Moefana, Flament, Tanga, Jalibert , Jolmes had good game

Vakatawa did not size his chance and Jaminet is a weak link.

Yes. Agree on most of this except I think Flament is too lightweight for an intl lock. His work rate is excellent (like Cros) but his impact low.

Vakatawa should have shone against lightweight opponents. He didn't.
That may have been Jaminet's worst game. I don't have an answer here (and neither does Galthie which is why he sticks with him). The answer is not Ramos. I did wonder if they should have given Jalibert the kicking duties
a) To see how well he is going.
b) To allow focus on what else Jaminet brings.
I'm not adverse to Bouthier being recalled but only if Jalibert is at FH doing the kicking. And even that is a risk, because if he gets injured, there is no-one to kick unless you have Le Garrec on the bench and then you'd have to sub Dupont at the same time.

[La soule]

Thinking about this game, in the areas for improvement (and therefore things that I did not like) were the ability to respond to the Japanese intensity and speed of action and which translated into too many overlaps, which, thankfully, Japan didn't take advantage of too often (though their first try was a marvel of team work based on this strength) and the number of times when the Japanese jackallers were first on the ball at the breakdown.

You can't respond to the Japanese speed. That's a reactive approach that nobody can contain. Japan sacrifices bulk and power for speed and mobility. They play a unique game at 15s which is like 7s across the park. If you let them play that, they will hurt you. The answers are simple and twofold
- don't let them have the ball unnecessarily i.e. stop the stupid kicking.
- use the fwds to grind them down. It's not pretty and won't please the neutrals, but it is what it is.
The other aspect is when they get the ball, because there will be periods where they do have it. And that means slowing down their ruck ball. This is a mandatory aspect at any level of the game these days and given Japan's size, should be easier. But, again, France's 2 weakest points are catching a high ball and attacking opposition rucks.

Japanese pack was heavier than its counterpart yesterday.

[La soule]

Nice one. Good victory in Japan. As a reminder, we drew against them last time.

Moefana, Flament, Tanga, Jalibert , Jolmes had good game

Vakatawa did not size his chance and Jaminet is a weak link.

Yes. Agree on most of this except I think Flament is too lightweight for an intl lock. His work rate is excellent (like Cros) but his impact low.

Vakatawa should have shone against lightweight opponents. He didn't.
That may have been Jaminet's worst game. I don't have an answer here (and neither does Galthie which is why he sticks with him). The answer is not Ramos. I did wonder if they should have given Jalibert the kicking duties
a) To see how well he is going.
b) To allow focus on what else Jaminet brings.
I'm not adverse to Bouthier being recalled but only if Jalibert is at FH doing the kicking. And even that is a risk, because if he gets injured, there is no-one to kick unless you have Le Garrec on the bench and then you'd have to sub Dupont at the same time.

I still think the best option today is Ramos. I like Spring a lot and Buros as well. Jaminet is not the solution, nor for ST nor for France.

I obviously disagree regarding Flament who is very solid playing in the cage on the left side. He brings a lot, is mobile. Anyway, Woki has decided he would play second row so Flament is unlikely to start many games. He will be on the bench though.

[TheFrog]

I think Woki has been told his only opportunity to play for France is if he plays lock. It started there.


Re Japanese speed: the team needs to work on getting faster up on their legs to feed the defensive system and get less stuck in the ruck when contest can't be won to redistribute on the defensive line.

[TheFrog]

I suspect that one big factor in the weaker French defense is Shaun Edwards' absence on this tour. He won't make it at all by the way.

[Torquemada 1420]

I suspect that one big factor in the weaker French defense is Shaun Edwards' absence on this tour. He won't make it at all by the way.

Unlikely it's that. More that as a scratch team, he won't have had time to work with many of them as part of the main system before they left. Shouldn't need him when they are there: it's too late by then!

[TheFrog]

Looking at the Merdol ranking of Top14 players, it is interesting to note that Jaminet doesn't appear in the top 3 of the fullbacks (Ramos, Dulin, Luc) whereas Villiere and Penaud are respectively 1st and 2nd of the wingers.

Says a lot.

I think this tour also confirms our weakness at tight head prop.

[Torquemada 1420]

Looking at the Merdol ranking of Top14 players, it is interesting to note that Jaminet doesn't appear in the top 3 of the fullbacks (Ramos, Dulin, Luc) whereas Villiere and Penaud are respectively 1st and 2nd of the wingers.

Says a lot.

I think this tour also confirms our weakness at tight head prop.

I'd take that with a pinch of salt though. Jaminet playing for a side that ended in the relegation playoffs would not have helped. What is bizarre is that Jaminet has not appeared on the LNR player stats list at all this season! What I can tell you is Ramos scored 268 points off the boot at an average of 9.5 and Jaminet 275 at an average of 12. Make of that what you will.

I could not see those rankings on Merdol online so assume it's only available in paper or for subscribers (I stopped my pay for several seasons ago).

{EDIT} PS Ramos scored 5 tries all season and Jaminet effectively none: I'm ignoring his try in the play off against M-D-M.

[TheFrog]

Looks like Max Spring will start next game.
But that Le Garrec will not be given a chance to play

Tolofua could be replaced by Diallo on the bench.

[Torquemada 1420]

Looks like Max Spring will start next game.
But that Le Garrec will not be given a chance to play

Tolofua could be replaced by Diallo on the bench.

Pointless taking him. May as well have let him start his Summer rest. Also very short sighted by the management because it fails to recognise the problem of a back up kicker to Jaminet.

[Torquemada 1420]

Le XV des Bleus : 15. Spring ; 14. Penaud, 13. Vakatawa, 12. Moefana, 11. Lebel ; 10. Jalibert, 9. Lucu ; 7. Ollivon (cap.), 8. Tanga, 6. Cretin ; 5. Jolmes, 4. Flament ; 3. Bamba, 2. Mauvaka, 1. Gros.

Remplaçants : 16. Bourgarit, 17. Priso, 18. Falatea, 19. Lavault, 20. Diallo, 21. Macalou, 22. Couilloud, 23. Hastoy.

So, no Jaminet at all and no cover for the backs at all on the bench: presumably Macalou will be asked to stand in if it all goes horribly wrong.

[TheFrog]

Only two changes then, it is a surprise because I expected Galthie to blood more players. I guess the first half performance of the Japanese has him worried and he may not want to weaken his team further.

I wonder what we should read in the selection of Max Spring ahead of Jaminet. I haven't read that Jaminet is injured. One could say that Jaminet is a certainty so Galthie wanted to test another option to ensure greater depth for France. But in that case why start Penaud and not give another winger a chance? Why not start Le Garrec?

Is this because in Galthie's mind, Jaminet is losing credibility and is he seeking an alternative option?

[Torquemada 1420]

Only two changes then, it is a surprise because I expected Galthie to blood more players. I guess the first half performance of the Japanese has him worried and he may not want to weaken his team further.

I wonder what we should read in the selection of Max Spring ahead of Jaminet. I haven't read that Jaminet is injured. One could say that Jaminet is a certainty so Galthie wanted to test another option to ensure greater depth for France. But in that case why start Penaud and not give another winger a chance? Why not start Le Garrec?

Is this because in Galthie's mind, Jaminet is losing credibility and is he seeking an alternative option?

Hard to tell on the evidence on 1 game selection but the latter is more likely. What I will say is that if he does drop Jaminet, if I were Ntamack, I would be worried.......

[TheFrog]

Only two changes then, it is a surprise because I expected Galthie to blood more players. I guess the first half performance of the Japanese has him worried and he may not want to weaken his team further.

I wonder what we should read in the selection of Max Spring ahead of Jaminet. I haven't read that Jaminet is injured. One could say that Jaminet is a certainty so Galthie wanted to test another option to ensure greater depth for France. But in that case why start Penaud and not give another winger a chance? Why not start Le Garrec?

Is this because in Galthie's mind, Jaminet is losing credibility and is he seeking an alternative option?

Hard to tell on the evidence on 1 game selection but the latter is more likely. What I will say is that if he does drop Jaminet, if I were Ntamack, I would be worried.......

Jalibert isn't a better placed kicker than Ntamack, is he?

[Torquemada 1420]

Jalibert isn't a better placed kicker than Ntamack, is he?

You are kidding, right?

[TheFrog]

Jalibert isn't a better placed kicker than Ntamack, is he?

You are kidding, right?

Why is Lucu the main kicker in Bordeaux then?

[La soule]

Jalibert isn't a better placed kicker than Ntamack, is he?

You are kidding, right?

Have found any data to back you up on this?

So, last game of the season. Bigger Japanese pack on tomorrow. Would be nice for this group to finish with a victory. Very curious about how Spring will fair at FB!

[Torquemada 1420]

Jalibert isn't a better placed kicker than Ntamack, is he?

You are kidding, right?

Why is Lucu the main kicker in Bordeaux then?

Do you actually watch any rugby these days?

Jalibert is the main kicker for UBB. He did all the kicking BEFORE he got injured this season. By contrast Ntamack had 36 points off the floor for ST this season because his own coach does not believe he is a kicker.

[La soule]

I reckon Ntamack does not kick because Ramos plays in the same team.

I could be wrong though.

[TheFrog]

I reckon Ntamack does not kick because Ramos plays in the same team.

I could be wrong though.

This, and Ramos is a better kicker.

[TheFrog]

You are kidding, right?

Why is Lucu the main kicker in Bordeaux then?

Do you actually watch any rugby these days?

Jalibert is the main kicker for UBB. He did all the kicking BEFORE he got injured this season. By contrast Ntamack had 36 points off the floor for ST this season because his own coach does not believe he is a kicker.

I can't access Anal+ abroad so I watch very little Top14 apart from a few highlights on YouTube unfortunately.

Why will Lucu be the kicker for France then?

[Torquemada 1420]

I can't access Anal+ abroad so I watch very little Top14 apart from a few highlights on YouTube unfortunately.

Why will Lucu be the kicker for France then?

You aren't missing much. Most of the rugby is terrible. So much so, I've canned my subscription for next season and will stream the odd match I want to watch.

Where did you read Lucu will kick tomorrow?