The Official Aotearoa Politics Thread

[Enzedder]

Aye, it is.

I have found a gift for Christmas at the JuCo household

Understood

To joke about the opposition leader not knowing how to count to ten in Te Reo, ace

To joke about Ardern not knowingthe 3 points of the Treaty of Waitangi, or what a GDP is, moaning

I found my gift to fix the shortcoming - what are you going to do to fix the PM's?

[Ramble on]

Aye, it is.

I have found a gift for Christmas at the JuCo household

Understood

To joke about the opposition leader not knowing how to count to ten in Te Reo, ace

To joke about Ardern not knowingthe 3 points of the Treaty of Waitangi, or what a GDP is, moaning

I found my gift to fix the shortcoming - what are you going to do to fix the PM's?

[Enzedder]

Your copy no doubt?

But she doesn't need it - she has Grant Robertson who is bloody awesome at his role.

[Brat]

Since when is monitoring the pragmatic approach

I would tend to agree with prof skeg and des Gorman that it's absolutely ridiculous that 63% of associated workers haven't been tested as of last week

That's total incompetence and failure of a basic level of care required that everyone should expect

I was discussing this on the old forum before we got locked out..it's an obvious vector for this disease to enter the country

(I'll put up my reply from there.)

There's a fair bit of righteous indignation about it, but I was hearing pushback this morning from border staff representatives on the radio.

Not made up my own mind one way or another about it yet. One issue is just what is effective screening. A test once a month is useless as a preventative measure. 1/week? Once every 3 days? That's got to be done for how long? There's a point there that people didn't sign up for that, it's not pleasant. Be happy to see them get a hardship payment and require it done regularly.

Good point. I've changed my mind on this a bit. Is every 3 or 4 days, max, a reasonable compromise? I'm basing that on the fact that symptoms can take from 1 to 14 days to show, however people can spread for several days before they become symptomatic. Put that way, some could still slip through. It's all very well for us to get on our high horses, but as you suggest, it seems that what is reasonable to expect out of the workers and what is effective could be quite a distance apart.

Considering the gravity of the situation I think it’ totally reasonable for people to be very upset about this, and workers to be tested every 3 or 4 days/whatever long term

I’ve had 2 tests so far -it’s not a big deal, and I think it’s something we’ll all have to get used to long term

[Ramble on]

Your copy no doubt?

But she doesn't need it - she has Grant Robertson who is bloody awesome at his role.

This is the thing with lefty hippy voters,

They shoot anyone who disagrees and insult them as refllex rather than the topic

[Enzedder]

Hippy -- yahooooo. That means I lie around stoned and shag everything, doesn't it?

Sign me up - I don't even have to vote.

[Monkey Magic]

12 new cases in community, still linked to current cases.

Could be better, could be worse.

Minister coming out and slamming those perpetuating the rumour of a chick breaking into quarantine which in some ways is good, but sad we now need govt officials to deal with some made up crap that circulates on social media

[Enzedder]

12 new cases in community, still linked to current cases.

Could be better, could be worse.

Minister coming out and slamming those perpetuating the rumour of a chick breaking into quarantine which in some ways is good, but sad we now need govt officials to deal with some made up crap that circulates on social media

I hope he's kicked Winston Peters in the nuts then.

[Monkey Magic]

12 new cases in community, still linked to current cases.

Could be better, could be worse.

Minister coming out and slamming those perpetuating the rumour of a chick breaking into quarantine which in some ways is good, but sad we now need govt officials to deal with some made up crap that circulates on social media

I hope he's kicked Winston Peters in the nuts then.

Sell people turns and we'll have gdp up to normal levels in no time

[Gumboot]

12 new cases in community, still linked to current cases.

Could be better, could be worse.

Minister coming out and slamming those perpetuating the rumour of a chick breaking into quarantine which in some ways is good, but sad we now need govt officials to deal with some made up crap that circulates on social media

I hope he's kicked Winston Peters in the nuts then.

Sell people turns and we'll have gdp up to normal levels in no time

[Auckman]

12 new cases in community, still linked to current cases.

Could be better, could be worse.

Minister coming out and slamming those perpetuating the rumour of a chick breaking into quarantine which in some ways is good, but sad we now need govt officials to deal with some made up crap that circulates on social media

I hope he's kicked Winston Peters in the nuts then.

Yes. 1000 times, yes.

[Fat Old Git]

12 new cases in community, still linked to current cases.

Could be better, could be worse.

Minister coming out and slamming those perpetuating the rumour of a chick breaking into quarantine which in some ways is good, but sad we now need govt officials to deal with some made up crap that circulates on social media

I hope he's kicked Winston Peters in the nuts then.

Sell people turns and we'll have gdp up to normal levels in no time

Shut up and take my money!!

[Jb1981]

Is there a special rate for wearing steel-capped boots?

[Tilly Orifice]

Is there a special rate for wearing steel-capped boots?

50% off?

[Monkey Magic]

Is there a special rate for wearing steel-capped boots?

Obviously, option for steel caps, rugby boots with regulation and non regulation sprigs.

All the details will appear on both the tourism nz and ministry of health websites.

Photos will also be available as you leave the attraction so you can remember the sheer joy on your face in the years to come. Photos will come in a range of sizes with your choice of themed frames.

Further details will be announced but we will provide the opportunity to 'double kick' Winston, where you get to join up with MPs and celebrities of the past to give him a kick - lineup includes gentleman Jim Bolger, Dover Samuel's, Helen Clark, Owen Glenn and John Key

Make sure to scan the QR code on arrival, be kind, and stay safe.

[Enzedder]

First Law of Holes applies Winnie

New Zealand First leader Winston Peters is standing by his statement made to Australian media last week that a border security breach led to the latest Covid-19 outbreak.

Health Minister Chris Hipkins began today's Covid-19 briefing with a stern warning. He said that a widespread rumour on social media about a woman sneaking into a managed isolation facility was false.

Last week, Peters told Patricia Karvelas of Australia's ABC 24 News that he's been given information from a "reliable source" that a breach inside our quarantine system led to the Auckland outbreak.

Today, Peters would not back down on his comments.

"The rumour that you're seeing on social media is not my rumour. Not sustained by me," he said.

"Even though they can claim it's mine... nothing of the sort is connected with me at all.

"But, I stand by the fact that this is a border security issue."

At the daily Covid-19 press conference Hipkins called the rumour "troubling" and said it caused "considerable distress" for the family at the centre of the cluster.

Hipkins said rumours are nothing new but this "one piece of information spread like wild fire" and included "a number of vile slurs".

He said it was "harmful, dangerous and utterly wrong".

[Jb1981]

Is there a special rate for wearing steel-capped boots?

Obviously, option for steel caps, rugby boots with regulation and non regulation sprigs.

All the details will appear on both the tourism nz and ministry of health websites.

Photos will also be available as you leave the attraction so you can remember the sheer joy on your face in the years to come. Photos will come in a range of sizes with your choice of themed frames.

Further details will be announced but we will provide the opportunity to 'double kick' Winston, where you get to join up with MPs and celebrities of the past to give him a kick - lineup includes gentleman Jim Bolger, Dover Samuel's, Helen Clark, Owen Glenn and John Key

Make sure to scan the QR code on arrival, be kind, and stay safe.

I like it but will novelty t-shirts be on sale? “I kicked Winston right in the Winebox” for example.

[Monkey Magic]

Is there a special rate for wearing steel-capped boots?

Obviously, option for steel caps, rugby boots with regulation and non regulation sprigs.

All the details will appear on both the tourism nz and ministry of health websites.

Photos will also be available as you leave the attraction so you can remember the sheer joy on your face in the years to come. Photos will come in a range of sizes with your choice of themed frames.

Further details will be announced but we will provide the opportunity to 'double kick' Winston, where you get to join up with MPs and celebrities of the past to give him a kick - lineup includes gentleman Jim Bolger, Dover Samuel's, Helen Clark, Owen Glenn and John Key

Make sure to scan the QR code on arrival, be kind, and stay safe.

I like it but will novelty t-shirts be on sale? “I kicked Winston right in the Winebox” for example.

We could do theme days, kick him in the wine box then enjoy sampling some of the finest wines from around the country.

Hit him in the NZ First foundation and take part in a blind auction including a fabulous day at the races

[Hong Kong]

thought the Ozzie would enjoy this - hopefully not RR

[fishfoodie]

[Ted.]

One analysis in relation to the economic cost of lockdown.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinio ... lution-too

... It is still too early to conduct a complete analysis of the full costs and benefits of elimination as a strategy, and the use of lockdowns.

But from my analysis of the data available so far, the evidence supports elimination as a strategy. Success depends on compliance to restrictions, fortitude by business and the public, and making sure we do not lift restrictions too early. ...

[Ted.]

First Law of Holes applies Winnie

New Zealand First leader Winston Peters is standing by his statement made to Australian media last week that a border security breach led to the latest Covid-19 outbreak.

Health Minister Chris Hipkins began today's Covid-19 briefing with a stern warning. He said that a widespread rumour on social media about a woman sneaking into a managed isolation facility was false.

Last week, Peters told Patricia Karvelas of Australia's ABC 24 News that he's been given information from a "reliable source" that a breach inside our quarantine system led to the Auckland outbreak.

Today, Peters would not back down on his comments.

"The rumour that you're seeing on social media is not my rumour. Not sustained by me," he said.

"Even though they can claim it's mine... nothing of the sort is connected with me at all.

"But, I stand by the fact that this is a border security issue."

At the daily Covid-19 press conference Hipkins called the rumour "troubling" and said it caused "considerable distress" for the family at the centre of the cluster.

Hipkins said rumours are nothing new but this "one piece of information spread like wild fire" and included "a number of vile slurs".

He said it was "harmful, dangerous and utterly wrong".

Winnie is being thick, or his treating his constituents as thick, to be taking that line. Genomic sequencing has discounted the outbreak as being related to anyone known to have Covid 19 in isolation.

[Gumboot]

The election date announcement's coming up at 10am.

Any guesses? I'm going for Sat, 7 November.

[Gumboot]

The new date is 17 October, a delay of 4 weeks.

[Ted.]

The election date announcement's coming up at 10am.

Any guesses? I'm going for Sat, 7 November.

Can't see any sense in going beyond the same period of lost time that he lockdown has imposed. So, if level 3 in Auckland is lifted at the end of 14 days, kick the date out 14 days. Mind, if the total lost is kept to 14 days, given the logistical nightmare delays cause, I tend to think we should not delay the election at all.

[Ted.]

The new date is 17 October, a delay of 4 weeks.

That surprises me somewhat. I guess they are trying to be fair. It may also be a pointer that Auckland is not getting out of Level 3 when the 14 day period is up, perhaps with a weeks grace added.

[Enzedder]

She outlined her reasoning and it made perfect sense to me. Personally, I think Sept 19th was still fair and balanced for all sides but the chorus of bleating was so strong it made sense to avoid any more hysteria.

[Jb1981]

She outlined her reasoning and it made perfect sense to me. Personally, I think Sept 19th was still fair and balanced for all sides but the chorus of bleating was so strong it made sense to avoid any more hysteria.

And it’s a shorter delay than Winston wanted so perhaps her subtly asserting herself.

[Gumboot]

She outlined her reasoning and it made perfect sense to me. Personally, I think Sept 19th was still fair and balanced for all sides but the chorus of bleating was so strong it made sense to avoid any more hysteria.

Yep, and I like the way she reached out to the other party leaders for their opinions yesterday, before making her captain's call. She's handled the whole thing well, given the exceptional circumstances.

[Enzedder]

It is telling that she told the Electoral Commission yesterday, and Winnie this morning. That is one relationship that has soured heaps

[Jb1981]

This far in it looks like we may never know how this got back in. From the update today it sounds like the genome testing doesn’t rule out it being picked up from people in managed isolation as may have previously been assumed. It was clarified that not all samples contain what is needed to test (my layman’s summary) so all we can rule out is that it hasn’t come from cases where genome testing was possible.

[Ted.]

This far in it looks like we may never know how this got back in. From the update today it sounds like the genome testing doesn’t rule out it being picked up from people in managed isolation as may have previously been assumed. It was clarified that not all samples contain what is needed to test (my layman’s summary) so all we can rule out is that it hasn’t come from cases where genome testing was possible.

It's all over the place if this article turns out to be on the money:

... One of the family members worked at the Americold factory in Mt Wellington, where several staff have tested positive.

Samples taken from workers at one of the United States-based company’s cold storage facilities in Melbourne, Victoria, who have also been confirmed as having Covid-19 have been sent to laboratories for genomic sequencing.

Bloomfield said the results of the testing are expected on Monday. They could reveal whether the trans-Tasman clusters are connected.

“That will be another small piece of the puzzle,” Bloomfield said.

However, tests won’t necessarily show how the virus reached New Zealand.

“We still don’t have any particular clues of what the origin of the outbreak [is]. We may still never quite answer the question of how it was transmitted. But we’ll do our best to do that.”

The top priority remains “mapping” the cluster and managing it, Bloomfield added. ...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health ... uster-link

[Ted.]

More on the Elimination (Govt + Opposition + us) vs the Swedish get sick, it's ultimately better for you, proponents (Hoskins, Hooten, Bridge, Damien Grant).

... The return of Covid-19 to New Zealand last week and the resultant level 3 lockdown in Auckland has led to a renewed push by pundits for the Government to abandon its elimination strategy in favour of a Sweden-style herd immunity approach. “This hopeless strategy of perfection, of elimination, entails destroying our economy and quality of life in an endless pursuit of the unobtainable,” Damien Grant wrote in Stuff. ...

... From May 14, when New Zealand moved down to level 2, we have enjoyed more freedoms than the Swedes. Even now, two-thirds of our population operates in a less strict environment than Sweden. In fact, since February 28, when New Zealand reported its first case of Covid-19, we have spent more time with laxer measures than Sweden than the inverse. ...

And more https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health ... wedens-way

So has anyone else got some doubts about our strategy, or even outright hostility to it?

What's you argument?

[Ted.]

I take the lack of response and complete acceptance and unanimity. Well done and thank you.

[Ted.]

I think this is reprehensible, possibly politically motivated, stifling of a fine, upstanding individual's ability to carry out their business.

26-year-old convictions could end insolvency practitioner Damien Grant's career

High-profile insolvency practitioner and Stuff columnist Damien Grant is battling for his career, after having his application for a licence rejected because of 26-year-old fraud convictions.

From September 1, a new regulatory regime means all insolvency practitioners must be licenced by an accredited body.

Those who are not chartered accountants, such as Grant, must apply to the Restructuring, Insolvency and Turnaround Association of NZ (RITANZ) to be allowed to continue practising.

But, it is understood, Grant’s application was first rejected in June. He was then granted a review, at which it was rejected again on character grounds, because of his historical convictions.

....

He said he had engaged Bob Hollyman QC to seek a judicial review of the decision in the High Court.

“The case is ongoing, but I am confident that I will ultimately prevail in court. At this stage, under legal advice, I am not able to comment further on this. Waterstone remains open and it is business as usual.”

He said he was supportive of efforts to ensure that practitioners were held to high professional standards.

“Personally, achieving these outcomes has been a source of considerable pride for me and my practice.

“I am immensely proud of my staff and team and of the work that we do. We have seen an uptick in insolvencies and expect more to come given the current economic climate, Covid.”

Justice for Damien.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300087 ... nts-career

[Gumboot]

Auckland moving down to Level 2 at midnight on Sunday. Rest of the country staying at L2 until further notice.

[Muttonbird]

I think this is reprehensible, possibly politically motivated, stifling of a fine, upstanding individual's ability to carry out their business.

26-year-old convictions could end insolvency practitioner Damien Grant's career

High-profile insolvency practitioner and Stuff columnist Damien Grant is battling for his career, after having his application for a licence rejected because of 26-year-old fraud convictions.

From September 1, a new regulatory regime means all insolvency practitioners must be licenced by an accredited body.

Those who are not chartered accountants, such as Grant, must apply to the Restructuring, Insolvency and Turnaround Association of NZ (RITANZ) to be allowed to continue practising.

But, it is understood, Grant’s application was first rejected in June. He was then granted a review, at which it was rejected again on character grounds, because of his historical convictions.

....

He said he had engaged Bob Hollyman QC to seek a judicial review of the decision in the High Court.

“The case is ongoing, but I am confident that I will ultimately prevail in court. At this stage, under legal advice, I am not able to comment further on this. Waterstone remains open and it is business as usual.”

He said he was supportive of efforts to ensure that practitioners were held to high professional standards.

“Personally, achieving these outcomes has been a source of considerable pride for me and my practice.

“I am immensely proud of my staff and team and of the work that we do. We have seen an uptick in insolvencies and expect more to come given the current economic climate, Covid.”

Justice for Damien.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300087 ... nts-career

Convicted credit-card and share-scam fraudster, Damien Grant, has twice been deemed not of good character by his peers. I think that is saying something.

This article and another claim his application has been rejected twice because of his convictions (serious enough convictions to warrant a 30 month prison term), but there is no proof of that.

More likely he is deemed not of good character now, and recent outbursts in the media regarding abuse of the wage subsidy scheme don't help him, particularly with respect to his current position as an insolvency practitioner. Also he seems unrepentant, but that could just be because I've not seen an official apology from him...

[Harveys]

I guess the length of the prison sentence rules out the clean slate possibility for convictions that old, If MB is correct and he was sentenced to 30months then he must have been up to some no good. If he has done nothing wrong for the preceding years then the laws must need reviewing or is society still happy that certain dishonesty offenses large enough preclude you from certain careers forever? We are progressing beyond that Shirley?

[Enzedder]

Seems strange - I have helped convicted murderers to start their own business but this guy is going to be persecuted to the grave. Almost everyone deserves another chance

[Muttonbird]

The issue for Grant is the new regulation legislated by the previous government comes into effect in the next month or two. Previously anyone could act as an insolvency practitioner but soon they have to apply to RITANZ for approval and meet certain criteria. One of those criteria is a test of good character. Grant has been rejected twice having failed the good character test. It's not clear, despite the article above, on what grounds he has been rejected.

In NZ the two year prison term seems to be a trigger point for a lot of ineligibility.

That Enz has helped convicted murderers start their own business is great but I bet it wasn't opening a gun shop.