The Official English Rugby Thread

[ASMO]

England players speed list (guess);

1. Radwan
2. Arundell
3. May
4. Watson
5. Ashton
6. Wade
7. Lynagh
8. Earl
9. OHC
10. Thorley

Thorley above Ashton i would say, Wade if he is as quick as when he went will be way up that list.

[Margin__Walker]

Peak Wade is out in front I'd say. No idea where he is these days, presuming he is set to make a comeback.

[Lobby]

How is Arundell for pace? It's a little hard to tell from his highlights videos.

He's clearly a strong runner in the George North mould but are we talking peak Jonny May quick or just peak Jack Nowell quick?

I do worry about the lack of a proper speedster in the England back line (as well as the other 100 things to worry about obviously)

For the try against Toulon, which included stepping several players, he ran 119 metres in about 12 seconds, so he’s very quick. Indeed, deceptively so, because he’s a big lad, you don’t expect him to be as quick as he is. In all his tries you can see players expecting to be able to intercept him, but being burned for pace.

[Kawazaki]

Radwan and Arundell both appear to have great acceleration, footwork and speed endurance. A player like Ashton for example has the speed and speed endurance but not the other two but he does run great support lines.

Could do a Top Trump style scoring system for wingers;

Top speed
Acceleration
Footwork
Speed endurance
Anticipation

[Raggs]

Peak Wade is out in front I'd say. No idea where he is these days, presuming he is set to make a comeback.

Nah, Wade was truly rapid over 20m, but his top speed wasn't quite at the peaks of some of the others I believe. I've got him on ignore, but is no one going to take the Earl bait?

[notfatcat]

Peak Wade is out in front I'd say. No idea where he is these days, presuming he is set to make a comeback.

Nah, Wade was truly rapid over 20m, but his top speed wasn't quite at the peaks of some of the others I believe. I've got him on ignore, but is no one going to take the Earl bait?

Bit too obvious.

[Margin__Walker]

Peak Wade is out in front I'd say. No idea where he is these days, presuming he is set to make a comeback.

Nah, Wade was truly rapid over 20m, but his top speed wasn't quite at the peaks of some of the others I believe. I've got him on ignore, but is no one going to take the Earl bait?

I'm talking about top speed though really. He's apparently been clocked up over 11 m/s which is serious pace and something very few other rugby players in the world will touch. Here's Brendan Macken talking about him a few years ago

"He's going about 11 metres per second [at top speed] and I don't think any other rugby player is touching that. The really, really quick guys would be getting 10.5 or 10.6 while Christian is regularly getting 11 and sometimes hitting 11.1 and 11.2. He's an ex-sprinter and he's a guy who should have plenty more England caps."

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/christia ... ust-147787

[Raggs]

Peak Wade is out in front I'd say. No idea where he is these days, presuming he is set to make a comeback.

Nah, Wade was truly rapid over 20m, but his top speed wasn't quite at the peaks of some of the others I believe. I've got him on ignore, but is no one going to take the Earl bait?

I'm talking about top speed though really. He's apparently been clocked up over 11 m/s which is serious pace and something very few other rugby players in the world will touch. Here's Brendan Macken talking about him a few years ago

"He's going about 11 metres per second [at top speed] and I don't think any other rugby player is touching that. The really, really quick guys would be getting 10.5 or 10.6 while Christian is regularly getting 11 and sometimes hitting 11.1 and 11.2. He's an ex-sprinter and he's a guy who should have plenty more England caps."

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/christia ... ust-147787

Fair enough!

[Hal Jordan]

How often is top pace vital? I'd say acceleration over 0-20m and footwork is more important. We all love a blazing length of the pitch try, but usually it's about beating the cover in the 22.

A prime example is Jason Robinson, absolutely lethal in finding space but not actually massive gas over a long sprint.

[Lobby]

Peak Wade is out in front I'd say. No idea where he is these days, presuming he is set to make a comeback.

Nah, Wade was truly rapid over 20m, but his top speed wasn't quite at the peaks of some of the others I believe. I've got him on ignore, but is no one going to take the Earl bait?

I'm talking about top speed though really. He's apparently been clocked up over 11 m/s which is serious pace and something very few other rugby players in the world will touch. Here's Brendan Macken talking about him a few years ago

"He's going about 11 metres per second [at top speed] and I don't think any other rugby player is touching that. The really, really quick guys would be getting 10.5 or 10.6 while Christian is regularly getting 11 and sometimes hitting 11.1 and 11.2. He's an ex-sprinter and he's a guy who should have plenty more England caps."

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/christia ... ust-147787

Arundell’s recently been clocked at 10.5 metres per second, so by that measure is already one of the really, really quick guys.

[sockwithaticket]

How often is top pace vital? I'd say acceleration over 0-20m and footwork is more important. We all love a blazing length of the pitch try, but usually it's about beating the cover in the 22.

A prime example is Jason Robinson, absolutely lethal in finding space but not actually massive gas over a long sprint.

Linebreaks and broken field opportunities to run into space should occur multiple times a game. In those situations top end pace over more than 20m can be a real asset. Say you're running it back from deep, the guy travelling quicker is going to be more difficult to put down.

Rees-Zammit's tries this weekend showed that certain opportunities become scores when allied to gas.

It helps for things like kick chase too. The quicker you can arrive the better and a an over-cooked kick can be turned into a good one if the player chasing is rapid enough.

[Lobby]

How often is top pace vital? I'd say acceleration over 0-20m and footwork is more important. We all love a blazing length of the pitch try, but usually it's about beating the cover in the 22.

A prime example is Jason Robinson, absolutely lethal in finding space but not actually massive gas over a long sprint.

Linebreaks and broken field opportunities to run into space should occur multiple times a game. In those situations top end pace over more than 20m can be a real asset. Say you're running it back from deep, the guy travelling quicker is going to be more difficult to put down.

Rees-Zammit's tries this weekend showed that certain opportunities become scores when allied to gas.

It helps for things like kick chase too. The quicker you can arrive the better and a an over-cooked kick can be turned into a good one if the player chasing is rapid enough.

The England team that played last Saturday was sorely lacking in pace over the first 5 metres, let alone 20 and beyond.

[sockwithaticket]

How often is top pace vital? I'd say acceleration over 0-20m and footwork is more important. We all love a blazing length of the pitch try, but usually it's about beating the cover in the 22.

A prime example is Jason Robinson, absolutely lethal in finding space but not actually massive gas over a long sprint.

Linebreaks and broken field opportunities to run into space should occur multiple times a game. In those situations top end pace over more than 20m can be a real asset. Say you're running it back from deep, the guy travelling quicker is going to be more difficult to put down.

Rees-Zammit's tries this weekend showed that certain opportunities become scores when allied to gas.

It helps for things like kick chase too. The quicker you can arrive the better and a an over-cooked kick can be turned into a good one if the player chasing is rapid enough.

The England team that played last Saturday was sorely lacking in pace over the first 5 metres, let alone 20 and beyond.

Indeed, lack of pace across the team is a problem (particularly the back row imo), but the only area we can really address with the squad at the moment is the back three.

[Hal Jordan]

The slow back row is a real problem. You can't pick Lawes and Billy V and expect the 7 to get to all the rucks and support the backs.

I have said it before, but I do not like Lawes at 6. Underhill on song, great. Echoes the 2016 team with Robshaw and Haskell smashing into every ruck in sight because they knew where to be, along with Hartley, Marler and Kruis. Especially Kruis, he was a bloody nuisance all over the pitch.

[Paddington Bear]

£106 to sit in the top deck for the Argentina game in the autumn. Think I'll hold off for now.

[ASMO]

£106 to sit in the top deck for the Argentina game in the autumn. Think I'll hold off for now.

Yep, i have been offered tickets to all the AI's i am not going to waste my money going to watch an Eddie Jones coached bore/errorfest.

[sockwithaticket]

One of the few good points Ugo's made on the BBC podcast in recent months is that if Eddie Jones total focus is the world cup, how can the RFU justify charging full whack for the games he apparently isn't overly interested in winning?

[Hal Jordan]

Aha!

Born in London, England, he started playing rugby for Rosslyn Park in south London. He moved with his family to Australia at the age of seven.[5]

He's Southern Hemisphere maaaaate. No wonder Eddie's got a hard on for him.

Dramatisation. Maynothavehappened.

[sockwithaticket]

Aha!

Born in London, England, he started playing rugby for Rosslyn Park in south London. He moved with his family to Australia at the age of seven.[5]

He's Southern Hemisphere maaaaate. No wonder Eddie's got a hard on for him.

Dramatisation. Maynothavehappened.

Who are you talking about?

[Kawazaki]

Aha!

Born in London, England, he started playing rugby for Rosslyn Park in south London. He moved with his family to Australia at the age of seven.[5]

He's Southern Hemisphere maaaaate. No wonder Eddie's got a hard on for him.

Dramatisation. Maynothavehappened.

Who are you talking about?

Porter

[Oxbow]

Itoje has been ruled out of the final test. Sam Jeffries creeps closer to that first cap.

[Margin__Walker]

Thought this was interesting today. Paywalled article, but basically Steward has already exceeded the 30 "match equivalent" games this season limit even before the game this weekend. It's guidance, so there are no consequences for going over, but it still feels a bit sketchy for a 21 year old that everyone is hoping will have a long career for England.

[Paddington Bear]

Interesting read in the Telegraph:

With its bohemian cafes and beach bum vibes, Coogee was a fitting base for ‘New England’ led by Courtney Lawes to prepare for their third Test against Australia on Saturday. Victory at the Sydney Cricket Ground will vindicate head coach Eddie Jones’ decision to relax the iron grip he has held on this squad for much of the past six years.

At face value, the ‘New England’ project can seem like a contradiction. One by one the players excommunicated last September - Jamie George, George Ford, Mako and finally Billy Vunipola - have been readmitted to the fold. Apart from Lawes taking over the captaincy from Owen Farrell, you would need the James Webb Space Telescope to detect the outward differences from the England of 12 months ago.

Behind the scenes, however, there has been nothing less than a revolution in the way that Jones manages the players. Now it is the leadership group that sets the parameters around training.


Any afternoon this week around the beaches of Coogee and Bondi you would have found small groups of England players dipping their toes into the surf or overpriced surf shops. That was the result of the leadership group requesting training finishes by midday on this tour, to which Jones agreed. Gone too are the dreaded 6am “Bacon & Eggs” strength & conditioning sessions and the even earlier text messages from Jones.



“There is none of that and 6am training sessions so we have made it a much more enjoyable environment,” Lawes said. “It is not as constant so it is not pressure 24/7. It is push the button, training time, go for it, because we have to get everything we can out of training. It has to be intense and we have to be under pressure but when we get back to the hotel, enjoy yourselves, have fun, don’t think about rugby, be a team, enjoy each other’s company.

“We are not doing that because we want everything to be sunshine and roses. We are doing it because we think that is actually how you get the best out of the team; how you make sure people are fresh by the weekend because they haven’t had to think about rugby all week, they have just done it in short bursts they can handle. It is all for a reason.”

Lawes was talking at the Coogee Surf Life Saving Club, a venue which would have provided a very different backdrop had England gone 2-0 down in this series. Victory in Brisbane has transformed Jones’ disposition from the antsy, anxious figure of the first two weeks to a gregarious hometown hero back around his Randwick haunts where he was known as “King Eddie”.

Halting the four-match losing run last week buys Jones breathing space. Rallying from 1-0 down to win a series is something no England coach has managed before. Not only would that eliminate any remaining doubts of the security of his own position, but it would reassure Jones that he was right to let go of the reins after Ellis Genge told him last summer that the environment was too intense.

That led to the pivot in the leadership group from Farrell, who is yet to locate his own off switch, to Lawes, whom hooker Jamie George described as the “voice of reason” within the squad. It also involved Jones suppressing his own control freak tendencies and letting the team pilot themselves.

“That was one of the biggest things that I noticed then it was just about Eddie’s response to it, which was to work closely with us and trust us that we know the best direction of the team,” Lawes said. “This week we went to Eddie and said ‘we don’t know where we are, we haven’t trained, we have travelled, we had Monday which was recovery and we wanted to see where we were on the field today.’ Now we have a better idea of what we need [on Wednesday] which will be our big session of the week and we can report that and find a bit of a compromise.”

Relaxing training and granting autonomy (at least to players rather than support staff) would have been considered anathema to Jones not so long ago. Now there is a recognition that he cannot indefinitely apply the poker of his red-hot intensity.

“I just did a thing with Nick Farr-Jones [the former Australia scrum half], who was a pretty fair player,” Jones said. “He was saying that if he was a rugby player now, he wouldn’t play, because of the monotony of training. What we’ve tried to do on this tour is just get everything done by midday, then let the boys relax and enjoy themselves.”

Certainly, the Wallabies would not consider that England are any more relaxed or less intense for this change in tone. Niggly, underhand, unsporting; had these accusations been made by English teams of Australians then it is a fair bet the beloved ‘whinging poms’ headline would have been wheeled out across the back pages Down Under.

Yet the niggle is just a sideshow to the main event of who gets on the front foot. This was a feat that the English pack managed in Brisbane, emphatically in the first half, having struggled to generate such momentum in the first Test.

At the end of what Lawes described as the “longest season”, England - and especially their forwards - will need to generate one final push. “If the brain is willing the body will follow,” forwards coach Richard Cockerill said. “We've got no qualms that we'll be able to bring the same physicality - and more.”

This then is the litmus test for ‘New England’. Jones went against every instinct in liberating the players to set their own agenda. Now the players need to justify that trust.

[JM2K6]

I do prefer player led environments as a rule and it's certainly healthier than the traditional Jones style. We'll see what the truth of it is soon enough (and how long it lasts).

England being the dirtiest and niggliest team around is something we should not be proud of. Being hard to play against is not the same thing.

[Paddington Bear]

Pretty much. Not to mention that in the TMO era niggle will get pinged far more often than not (in 2007 Genge’s elbow would have gone completely unpunished).
It is funny though getting a reminder every so often that for all their hard man image the Aussies are the sporting world’s playground bully - actually very thin skinned and fragile when it comes down to it

[Margin__Walker]

Ah well. That's all she wrote. For all the EJ circus, it's good to get the result down there. Random thoughts on a few players:

- Thought Lawes was the man of the series. Serious engine and came up with really big plays at big moments. Also captained in a way that was far less likely to piss off ref than Farrell
- Steward was great again overall. Contributed going forward and was about as good under the high ball as any player I've ever seen.
- Genge brought some serious momentum shifting physicality at key moments.
- Not sold on Stuart as a starting TH for a Tier 1 nation, but he was okay
- Hill was actually very good after the first test niggle.
- That midfield just isn't right for me. They'll no doubt keep going Faz and Smith whilst for the time being, but Porter looks miles off a test 13 imo.
- Nowell was serviceable and had some decent moments, but would love to see a bit more threat out wide.
- Freeman was decent today and definitely worth another look.
- JVP is the one for me at 9. Been a fan since he was looking great for the U20s. Just a really balanced player, who's good at most things and doesn't have any glaring weaknesses.

[fishfoodie]

Lads, you'll never guess who woodentop is nominating to replace Eddie

[Margin__Walker]

Lads, you'll never guess who woodentop is nominating to replace Eddie

Himself?

[Hal Jordan]

Lads, you'll never guess who woodentop is nominating to replace Eddie

Boris Johnson?

[sockwithaticket]

Lads, you'll never guess who woodentop is nominating to replace Eddie

Typical Clive, he's tossing that out there because he knows there's basically zero chance he'll be asked to back it up (no serious nation is calling up a coach 17 years removed from the game). Which means he'll double down on his smug 'I can fix it routine' in his column. It'll be amusing to see what he comes up with if the RFU accidentally select someone who gets the team playing consistently well.

[fishfoodie]

https://www.ruck.co.uk/ticks-all-the-bo ... placement/

[sockwithaticket]

https://www.ruck.co.uk/ticks-all-the-bo ... placement/

Fair enough, made an incorrect assumption. It's not like Clive to miss a chance for self-promotion.

I reckon Farrell's probably still a bit too tainted by 2015 for the RFU.

[fishfoodie]

https://www.ruck.co.uk/ticks-all-the-bo ... placement/

Fair enough, made an incorrect assumption. It's not like Clive to miss a chance for self-promotion.

I reckon Farrell's probably still a bit too tainted by 2015 for the RFU.

I was a bit surprised myself

Wasn't he also adamant that the RFU should only be hiring English coaches too ?

Him writing off all the English coaches in the Premiership will do no ends to his popularity with them

[Hal Jordan]

Ah well. That's all she wrote. For all the EJ circus, it's good to get the result down there. Random thoughts on a few players:

- Thought Lawes was the man of the series. Serious engine and came up with really big plays at big moments. Also captained in a way that was far less likely to piss off ref than Farrell
- Steward was great again overall. Contributed going forward and was about as good under the high ball as any player I've ever seen.
- Genge brought some serious momentum shifting physicality at key moments.
- Not sold on Stuart as a starting TH for a Tier 1 nation, but he was okay
- Hill was actually very good after the first test niggle.
- That midfield just isn't right for me. They'll no doubt keep going Faz and Smith whilst for the time being, but Porter looks miles off a test 13 imo.
- Nowell was serviceable and had some decent moments, but would love to see a bit more threat out wide.
- Freeman was decent today and definitely worth another look.
- JVP is the one for me at 9. Been a fan since he was looking great for the U20s. Just a really balanced player, who's good at most things and doesn't have any glaring weaknesses.

Adding to this

I think the breakdown is a mess. Underhill needs to go away and get his brain sorted out. Curry is great, and I am pleased Lawes is proving me wrong (I still don't like hybrid lock flankrrs personally), but we got fucked in rucks, getting isolated and shunted off the ball. I think some of the problem is the tight five, they don't seem as effective at getting there.

Stuart is a good second banana but a step down from Sinckler, although when he's back keep him out the 10 channel, it's congested enough.

It's clear anyone picked at 13 is, in Eddie's eyes, a placeholder until Slade is back, and then we lack midfield presence. Tuilagi isn't happening, stop relying on a permanently broken saviour.

10/12 might work if Smith gets the confidence Ford has to tell Farrell to fuck off out of it. The Farrell at 10 play can and has yielded some good results, but it's being used far too often to be a surprise. Keep him at 12 and get Smith playing flat where he's most effective(like Ford), so Farrell can make decisions one step on.

Retire Nowell, he has English Winger"s Disease. Kept on far too long after the attacking threat has evaporated because he's a steady hand. The ruthless way New Zealand use up and discard their wide men is how I like it (I am aware of the differing talent streams, but for once England has a cadre of young, exciting wingers and watching the Cornish Yakuza plod slowly forward is painful).

Neither Youngs nor Care need to be first choice again. JVP looks top notch, and Mitchell/Randall/Care/Youngs/Quirke can scrap it put for bench and third choice between them. Although I note that before his form fell off a cliff, Randall was looking good and Smith liked playing with him (I think they were age group together).

Pick the bones out of that.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Ah well. That's all she wrote. For all the EJ circus, it's good to get the result down there. Random thoughts on a few players:

- Thought Lawes was the man of the series. Serious engine and came up with really big plays at big moments. Also captained in a way that was far less likely to piss off ref than Farrell
- Steward was great again overall. Contributed going forward and was about as good under the high ball as any player I've ever seen.
- Genge brought some serious momentum shifting physicality at key moments.
- Not sold on Stuart as a starting TH for a Tier 1 nation, but he was okay
- Hill was actually very good after the first test niggle.
- That midfield just isn't right for me. They'll no doubt keep going Faz and Smith whilst for the time being, but Porter looks miles off a test 13 imo.
- Nowell was serviceable and had some decent moments, but would love to see a bit more threat out wide.
- Freeman was decent today and definitely worth another look.
- JVP is the one for me at 9. Been a fan since he was looking great for the U20s. Just a really balanced player, who's good at most things and doesn't have any glaring weaknesses.

Adding to this

I think the breakdown is a mess. Underhill needs to go away and get his brain sorted out. Curry is great, and I am pleased Lawes is proving me wrong (I still don't like hybrid lock flankrrs personally), but we got fucked in rucks, getting isolated and shunted off the ball. I think some of the problem is the tight five, they don't seem as effective at getting there.

Stuart is a good second banana but a step down from Sinckler, although when he's back keep him out the 10 channel, it's congested enough.

It's clear anyone picked at 13 is, in Eddie's eyes, a placeholder until Slade is back, and then we lack midfield presence. Tuilagi isn't happening, stop relying on a permanently broken saviour.

10/12 might work if Smith gets the confidence Ford has to tell Farrell to fuck off out of it. The Farrell at 10 play can and has yielded some good results, but it's being used far too often to be a surprise. Keep him at 12 and get Smith playing flat where he's most effective(like Ford), so Farrell can make decisions one step on.

Retire Nowell, he has English Winger"s Disease. Kept on far too long after the attacking threat has evaporated because he's a steady hand. The ruthless way New Zealand use up and discard their wide men is how I like it (I am aware of the differing talent streams, but for once England has a cadre of young, exciting wingers and watching the Cornish Yakuza plod slowly forward is painful).

Neither Youngs nor Care need to be first choice again. JVP looks top notch, and Mitchell/Randall/Care/Youngs/Quirke can scrap it put for bench and third choice between them. Although I note that before his form fell off a cliff, Randall was looking good and Smith liked playing with him (I think they were age group together).

Pick the bones out of that.

The lack of use of Smith has to be a tactics issue. England seem determined to either kick it or bosh it up the middle no matter what.

In the 2nd half of the last Aus game, Smith touched the ball three times in total. 1st touch he put Freeman through a gap, 2nd touch he put Chessum through a gap, 3rd touch was him gathering loose ball and scoring.

I'd like to see more of this. He is currently completely wasted playing for England.

[Kawazaki]

Ah well. That's all she wrote. For all the EJ circus, it's good to get the result down there. Random thoughts on a few players:

- Thought Lawes was the man of the series. Serious engine and came up with really big plays at big moments. Also captained in a way that was far less likely to piss off ref than Farrell
- Steward was great again overall. Contributed going forward and was about as good under the high ball as any player I've ever seen.
- Genge brought some serious momentum shifting physicality at key moments.
- Not sold on Stuart as a starting TH for a Tier 1 nation, but he was okay
- Hill was actually very good after the first test niggle.
- That midfield just isn't right for me. They'll no doubt keep going Faz and Smith whilst for the time being, but Porter looks miles off a test 13 imo.
- Nowell was serviceable and had some decent moments, but would love to see a bit more threat out wide.
- Freeman was decent today and definitely worth another look.
- JVP is the one for me at 9. Been a fan since he was looking great for the U20s. Just a really balanced player, who's good at most things and doesn't have any glaring weaknesses.

Adding to this

I think the breakdown is a mess. Underhill needs to go away and get his brain sorted out. Curry is great, and I am pleased Lawes is proving me wrong (I still don't like hybrid lock flankrrs personally), but we got fucked in rucks, getting isolated and shunted off the ball. I think some of the problem is the tight five, they don't seem as effective at getting there.

Stuart is a good second banana but a step down from Sinckler, although when he's back keep him out the 10 channel, it's congested enough.

It's clear anyone picked at 13 is, in Eddie's eyes, a placeholder until Slade is back, and then we lack midfield presence. Tuilagi isn't happening, stop relying on a permanently broken saviour.

10/12 might work if Smith gets the confidence Ford has to tell Farrell to fuck off out of it. The Farrell at 10 play can and has yielded some good results, but it's being used far too often to be a surprise. Keep him at 12 and get Smith playing flat where he's most effective(like Ford), so Farrell can make decisions one step on.

Retire Nowell, he has English Winger"s Disease. Kept on far too long after the attacking threat has evaporated because he's a steady hand. The ruthless way New Zealand use up and discard their wide men is how I like it (I am aware of the differing talent streams, but for once England has a cadre of young, exciting wingers and watching the Cornish Yakuza plod slowly forward is painful).

Neither Youngs nor Care need to be first choice again. JVP looks top notch, and Mitchell/Randall/Care/Youngs/Quirke can scrap it put for bench and third choice between them. Although I note that before his form fell off a cliff, Randall was looking good and Smith liked playing with him (I think they were age group together).

Pick the bones out of that.

The lack of use of Smith has to be a tactics issue. England seem determined to either kick it or bosh it up the middle no matter what.

In the 2nd half of the last Aus game, Smith touched the ball three times in total. 1st touch he put Freeman through a gap, 2nd touch he put Chessum through a gap, 3rd touch was him gathering loose ball and scoring.

I'd like to see more of this. He is currently completely wasted playing for England.

Maybe if he'd touched the ball 20 times then he wouldn't have got the chance to put people into space?
?

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Adding to this

I think the breakdown is a mess. Underhill needs to go away and get his brain sorted out. Curry is great, and I am pleased Lawes is proving me wrong (I still don't like hybrid lock flankrrs personally), but we got fucked in rucks, getting isolated and shunted off the ball. I think some of the problem is the tight five, they don't seem as effective at getting there.

Stuart is a good second banana but a step down from Sinckler, although when he's back keep him out the 10 channel, it's congested enough.

It's clear anyone picked at 13 is, in Eddie's eyes, a placeholder until Slade is back, and then we lack midfield presence. Tuilagi isn't happening, stop relying on a permanently broken saviour.

10/12 might work if Smith gets the confidence Ford has to tell Farrell to fuck off out of it. The Farrell at 10 play can and has yielded some good results, but it's being used far too often to be a surprise. Keep him at 12 and get Smith playing flat where he's most effective(like Ford), so Farrell can make decisions one step on.

Retire Nowell, he has English Winger"s Disease. Kept on far too long after the attacking threat has evaporated because he's a steady hand. The ruthless way New Zealand use up and discard their wide men is how I like it (I am aware of the differing talent streams, but for once England has a cadre of young, exciting wingers and watching the Cornish Yakuza plod slowly forward is painful).

Neither Youngs nor Care need to be first choice again. JVP looks top notch, and Mitchell/Randall/Care/Youngs/Quirke can scrap it put for bench and third choice between them. Although I note that before his form fell off a cliff, Randall was looking good and Smith liked playing with him (I think they were age group together).

Pick the bones out of that.

The lack of use of Smith has to be a tactics issue. England seem determined to either kick it or bosh it up the middle no matter what.

In the 2nd half of the last Aus game, Smith touched the ball three times in total. 1st touch he put Freeman through a gap, 2nd touch he put Chessum through a gap, 3rd touch was him gathering loose ball and scoring.

I'd like to see more of this. He is currently completely wasted playing for England.

Maybe if he'd touched the ball 20 times then he wouldn't have got the chance to put people into space?
?

We aren't going to find out, which is rather the point.

[inactionman]

Ah well. That's all she wrote. For all the EJ circus, it's good to get the result down there. Random thoughts on a few players:

- Thought Lawes was the man of the series. Serious engine and came up with really big plays at big moments. Also captained in a way that was far less likely to piss off ref than Farrell
- Steward was great again overall. Contributed going forward and was about as good under the high ball as any player I've ever seen.
- Genge brought some serious momentum shifting physicality at key moments.
- Not sold on Stuart as a starting TH for a Tier 1 nation, but he was okay
- Hill was actually very good after the first test niggle.
- That midfield just isn't right for me. They'll no doubt keep going Faz and Smith whilst for the time being, but Porter looks miles off a test 13 imo.
- Nowell was serviceable and had some decent moments, but would love to see a bit more threat out wide.
- Freeman was decent today and definitely worth another look.
- JVP is the one for me at 9. Been a fan since he was looking great for the U20s. Just a really balanced player, who's good at most things and doesn't have any glaring weaknesses.

Adding to this

I think the breakdown is a mess. Underhill needs to go away and get his brain sorted out. Curry is great, and I am pleased Lawes is proving me wrong (I still don't like hybrid lock flankrrs personally), but we got fucked in rucks, getting isolated and shunted off the ball. I think some of the problem is the tight five, they don't seem as effective at getting there.

Stuart is a good second banana but a step down from Sinckler, although when he's back keep him out the 10 channel, it's congested enough.

It's clear anyone picked at 13 is, in Eddie's eyes, a placeholder until Slade is back, and then we lack midfield presence. Tuilagi isn't happening, stop relying on a permanently broken saviour.

10/12 might work if Smith gets the confidence Ford has to tell Farrell to fuck off out of it. The Farrell at 10 play can and has yielded some good results, but it's being used far too often to be a surprise. Keep him at 12 and get Smith playing flat where he's most effective(like Ford), so Farrell can make decisions one step on.

Retire Nowell, he has English Winger"s Disease. Kept on far too long after the attacking threat has evaporated because he's a steady hand. The ruthless way New Zealand use up and discard their wide men is how I like it (I am aware of the differing talent streams, but for once England has a cadre of young, exciting wingers and watching the Cornish Yakuza plod slowly forward is painful).

Neither Youngs nor Care need to be first choice again. JVP looks top notch, and Mitchell/Randall/Care/Youngs/Quirke can scrap it put for bench and third choice between them. Although I note that before his form fell off a cliff, Randall was looking good and Smith liked playing with him (I think they were age group together).

Pick the bones out of that.

[SaintK]

Pity it wasn't after the last RWC

Eddie Jones has been approached by Rugby Australia over the possibility of becoming Wallabies boss after next year's World Cup, according to reports.

The 62-year-old has operated as head coach of England for seven years and is set to guide the 2003 World Cup winners into the global showpiece next year. However, the Sydney Herald report that the governing body of rugby in Australia have contacted Jones over the possibility of succeeding current boss Dave Rennie.
The report claims RA chiefs are unhappy with the overall performance of the Wallabies under Rennie - who took charge in 2020. His contract expires after the 2023 World Cup.
It comes just days after England came from behind to secure a 2-1 summer Test series victory over Australia.

[Raggs]

The lack of use of Smith has to be a tactics issue. England seem determined to either kick it or bosh it up the middle no matter what.

In the 2nd half of the last Aus game, Smith touched the ball three times in total. 1st touch he put Freeman through a gap, 2nd touch he put Chessum through a gap, 3rd touch was him gathering loose ball and scoring.

I'd like to see more of this. He is currently completely wasted playing for England.

We didn't have the ball much in the 2nd half, we didn't have it much for the whole game in truth, 45 rucks is a tiny amount. 65 pass and 63 runs (26 kicks), is a really small amount of ball time in truth. What's the point in giving it to Smith every time if we're not yet going forwards and there's nothing on? Outside of JVP, no one had the ball more than 12 times, Smith got it 9 times. That hardly seems like we were choking possession from him, especially as play needs to come of 9, 10 and 12.

To put it into a bit more context, on a quick check of Smith's last 3 games for Quins (I think the last 3), he got it around 25-30% of the time compared to the amount the 9s had the ball. For England, he's had a similar ratio, a little less when he was stinking the place out in the 2nd test. But in none of the tests did Farrell get the ball more often, so whilst we play mostly off 9 (find me a team that doesn't), Smith was seemingly the next most used playmaking option.