The Rugby Championship

[Ymx]

We are lose/lose.

Lose now or lose later when it matters

[OomStruisbaai]

I hope SA don't bottle it and give Foster a leg up... this dead horse has to be flogged until NZ Rugby do the right thing....

SA is in a win/win situation.

So, even if they lose... they win?

Foster stay and the Springboks will have to rethink their box kick gameplan

[Thor Sedan]

That's the problem for us.....it IS that bad. Our backline isn't that talented - and usually we had a couple of clever brains in there to unlock challenges. We don't have that now.....at all. I mean part of me is wondering if D Mac might make the difference.

And the big worry that most of us have is that we don't have the coaching team to sort things out - in fact it appears that comments made suggest that Foster has lost or is losing the dressing room.

Hopefully NZR has been furiously canvassing the players over the past 48 hours. Apparently Foster "reviewed well" after the EOYT, but his assistants like Plumtree and Feek, not so much. And given the often woeful defence against Ireland, you'd have to think McLeod's on thin ice as well. I don't think many punters will accept Foster keeping his job and his assistants being made the escape goats, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's what NZR do - paper over the cracks... again.

I agree with David Moffett - there's no chance we'll win the next RWC, so we should stop focussing on that and start rebuilding for 2027 instead. Won't happen of course - it's far too sensible for NZR to even consider.

Yep.....all of this.

I would even be comfortable with Foster and assistants being removed and probably Scott Robinson and his team thrown in to see if they can get something moving. It would probably mean a painful short-term.....but more chance of advancement than status quo with Foster.

Maybe even throw some of the unlucky 'missing outers' in to the mix to maybe reignite some internal competition for places. Ethan de Groot, Tom Robinson, Cullen Grace......get some young lads into the set up. If de Groot's biggest negative is that his fitness is a worry.....I'm sure a well organized AB's set up will knock that on the head.

NZR needs to start being proactive and innovative again. We'll probably get through some matches just on individual talent alone - but that isn't a long term solution.

[Gumboot]

Foster dropped de Groot and picked the departing Karl Tu'inukuafe instead, only to give him 20 minutes off the bench in the first test... then nothing. Taylor looks spent, but still gets starts while Taukei'aho's dropped from the test 23 for, um...

[JM2K6]

Looking past results for the moment, what do people make of the quality of international teams at the moment?

The way I see it, Ireland are the most organised & best coached side. France are the deadliest / most talented. Neither are the standard of, say, the Dan Carter All Blacks, but they'd be top tier stuff in any particular era nonetheless.

Below them... everyone seems heavily flawed. Very few sides are producing consistently good rugby (winning or otherwise). Scottish fans are disappointed with the Argentina series (after talking about Argentina as their bunnies) and have been very vocal in their criticism this year. England fans recognise that a win in Australia is just papering over the giant cracks with a side that is poorly selected, poorly coached, and producing some pretty grim rugby. Wales are reverting to the "at least we can defend all day" type and seem to lack quality. NZ are having their first genuine crisis since the 90s (no, I don't include them losing world cup matches, because they still played brilliant winning rugby most of the time). South Africa are very hard to judge but have lost far too many matches recently to be happy with their lot. Australia just lost another series at home to a horribly misfiring England; even taking into account all the disruption, they don't seem to have a clear plan and they did not play good rugby in any of the 3 Tests, including the one they won.

IMO this is a dreadful period of international rugby. I don't say this to denigrate the Irish - I think they're the gold standard right now for clarity of thought, clarity of coaching, and performance on the pitch. That used to be NZ's mantle.

I'd back NZ and SA to swing back faster than everyone else, but good lord there's some shit rugby being played at the moment.

[Sards]

I'd back NZ and SA to swing back faster than everyone else, but good lord there's some shit rugby being played at the moment.

our rugby has been dour for ages now.....since Rassie really. But its won the important matches. So don't expect a change or shift.

[JM2K6]

I'd back NZ and SA to swing back faster than everyone else, but good lord there's some shit rugby being played at the moment.

our rugby has been dour for ages now.....since Rassie really. But its won the important matches. So don't expect a change or shift.

Yeah. Sadly the same justification is used for Eddie right now - we won the series therefore we're on the right path. Ignore the performances or the last 12 months of results.

[average joe]

Rassie does not coach the Boks and where are all these matches we've lost of late? We've played three games this year, we lost one with one point, playing with an experimental side.

[Sards]

Rassie does not coach the Boks

Really...Twitter says otherwise


Why the vok am I responding to you

[OomStruisbaai]

Rassie does not coach the Boks

Really...Twitter says otherwise


Why the vok am I responding to you

What is Twitter?

Rassie is DoR not coaching.

[Ymx]

Rassie does not coach the Boks

Really...Twitter says otherwise


Why the vok am I responding to you

What is Twitter?

Rassie is DoR not coaching.

On paper. But he’s still coaching, doing team meetings, etc. the only thing he’s not doing is carrying water.

[FalseBayFC]

Rassie does not coach the Boks and where are all these matches we've lost of late? We've played three games this year, we lost one with one point, playing with an experimental side.

Our win rate under Rassie and Nienaber both combined and individually is worse than under Heyneke Meyer and the same as under Pieter de Villiers. With the group of players they have at their disposal, I think they've underperformed a bit.

[JM2K6]

Rassie does not coach the Boks and where are all these matches we've lost of late? We've played three games this year, we lost one with one point, playing with an experimental side.

You lost at home to Wales for the first time ever and were not good by any stretch of the imagination in the other matches against them. In 2021 you lost 5 matches, including against shithouse England and at home (and away, natch) against even more shithouse Australia.

I have way too much respect for Saffer rugby to think that the current team isn't badly underperforming. Results and performances are not up to standard.

[Sards]

Really...Twitter says otherwise


Why the vok am I responding to you

What is Twitter?

Rassie is DoR not coaching.

On paper. But he’s still coaching, doing team meetings, etc. the only thing he’s not doing is carrying water.

He is the most involved DOR in the history of the game I suspect.

[Sards]

Rassie does not coach the Boks and where are all these matches we've lost of late? We've played three games this year, we lost one with one point, playing with an experimental side.

You lost at home to Wales for the first time ever and were not good by any stretch of the imagination in the other matches against them. In 2021 you lost 5 matches, including against shithouse England and at home (and away, natch) against even more shithouse Australia.

I have way too much respect for Saffer rugby to think that the current team isn't badly underperforming. Results and performances are not up to standard.

Ouch

With the players at our disposal that is actually quite shocking to read. Almost as bad as the ABs. Well close as dammit.

France is the top dog apparently. With Ireland up there too. And England hovering below

[OomStruisbaai]

We are in a far better position compare to where we were in 2018.

It's still to far away from the actual tournament to predict favorites.

We even lost in the tournament against the All Blacks

A week is a long time in rugby.

[Sards]

We are in a far better position compare to where we were in 2018.

It's still to far away from the actual tournament to predict favorites.

We even lost in the tournament against the All Blacks

A week is a long time in rugby.

We have a bigger and better pool of players to choose from.
That's about it for being in a better position. We have not evolved. We just got bigger and more brutal.
The only change in all this time is Jaden starting at number 9. That in itself was a huge mind shift for coaches with a very focused gameplan that doesn't deviate.

What....a scrumhalf that actually passes on occasion instead of kicking everything he gets....

[OomStruisbaai]

Make all the $hark$ Springboks.

[Sards]

Make all the $hark$ Springboks.

You could....

That's really not the point Ouboet.
Sharks are an entity on their own. Their own branding and marketing. They don't need the Springboks to pay their salaries.

This is the proffessional era.

What I am talking about is what we have learnt from a year playing European sides.
We caught up with their interpretation and officiating but we are sadly lacking in the real skills. Our flyhalves are really really poor. Our players aren't smart. Or most of them aren't smart. ( oh I miss Dr Jannie ). And I am talking about intelligence, not how nice they dress. I cringe when we push Dom kops because they can jig a jig. I would give anything to have Biggar at the Sharks. What an intelligent player. I am so impressed with him. And then that kid that's making all the headlines. Marcus. Oh dear. We really are not thinking about pushing these kind of players. That lighty from the Cape. The next best thing since sliced bread. The kid from the Sharks. Even Libbok. These are thinking and skillful players. But what do we do......oh ja we smaak that kid that tackles well...dark ages really

[average joe]

Rassie does not coach the Boks

Really...Twitter says otherwise


Why the vok am I responding to you

Don't let me start with you, lest you flounce to the other place for a month again.

[average joe]

Rassie does not coach the Boks and where are all these matches we've lost of late? We've played three games this year, we lost one with one point, playing with an experimental side.

You lost at home to Wales for the first time ever and were not good by any stretch of the imagination in the other matches against them. In 2021 you lost 5 matches, including against shithouse England and at home (and away, natch) against even more shithouse Australia.

I have way too much respect for Saffer rugby to think that the current team isn't badly underperforming. Results and performances are not up to standard.

I'm honoured that you, an Englishman, would be so concerned for our team. There is always a first for anything though, even in Rugby. The All Blacks just lost a tour on home soil against Ireland. Who would ever have thought that possible?

Losing one game against Wales at home in a three match tour at the beginning of the season hardly bothers me, especially if that game was sacrificed in the name of development. Losing to shithouse England and Australia is nothing new. It hurts, especially against those two teams but it has happened before and will probably happen again some time in the future.

[average joe]

Rassie does not coach the Boks and where are all these matches we've lost of late? We've played three games this year, we lost one with one point, playing with an experimental side.

Our win rate under Rassie and Nienaber both combined and individually is worse than under Heyneke Meyer and the same as under Pieter de Villiers. With the group of players they have at their disposal, I think they've underperformed a bit.

Nienaber has a 75% win rate. Win rate percentages means very little to me though. HM has a 66.66% win rate, and some seasons he only lost against the ABs but he's still considered a shit coach because he lost against Japan in a world cup. Kitch Christie is considered the greatest SA coach ever. Because he won a world cup and he has a 100% win rate, but he only coached for one year, 14 games. If you look at percentages, Nick Mallett should be considered the best coach ever with a win rate of 71.05% but then again he has very little in the trophy cabinet to show for it.

[JM2K6]

Rassie does not coach the Boks and where are all these matches we've lost of late? We've played three games this year, we lost one with one point, playing with an experimental side.

You lost at home to Wales for the first time ever and were not good by any stretch of the imagination in the other matches against them. In 2021 you lost 5 matches, including against shithouse England and at home (and away, natch) against even more shithouse Australia.

I have way too much respect for Saffer rugby to think that the current team isn't badly underperforming. Results and performances are not up to standard.

I'm honoured that you, an Englishman, would be so concerned for our team. There is always a first for anything though, even in Rugby. The All Blacks just lost a tour on home soil against Ireland. Who would ever have thought that possible?

Losing one game against Wales at home in a three match tour at the beginning of the season hardly bothers me, especially if that game was sacrificed in the name of development. Losing to shithouse England and Australia is nothing new. It hurts, especially against those two teams but it has happened before and will probably happen again some time in the future.

Yes, the All Blacks are currently more shite than they've been for decades. No-one's pretending they're not, though.

Do you think South Africa have played well in the last 12 months and are anywhere near playing to their historical standard and/or getting the most out of the abundant talent they have at their disposal?

[OomStruisbaai]

In the past 12 months there was only 1 bad loss against the Wallabies in Australia. The other losses was very close.

This year we play France and Ireland in November. They are the two in form teams.

The one great thing about RasNaber is that they made history in 2019 WC after losing against the All Blacks they still won it.

Been there, done that, got the Tshirt.

[Dan54]

Looking past results for the moment, what do people make of the quality of international teams at the moment?

The way I see it, Ireland are the most organised & best coached side. France are the deadliest / most talented. Neither are the standard of, say, the Dan Carter All Blacks, but they'd be top tier stuff in any particular era nonetheless.

Below them... everyone seems heavily flawed. Very few sides are producing consistently good rugby (winning or otherwise). Scottish fans are disappointed with the Argentina series (after talking about Argentina as their bunnies) and have been very vocal in their criticism this year. England fans recognise that a win in Australia is just papering over the giant cracks with a side that is poorly selected, poorly coached, and producing some pretty grim rugby. Wales are reverting to the "at least we can defend all day" type and seem to lack quality. NZ are having their first genuine crisis since the 90s (no, I don't include them losing world cup matches, because they still played brilliant winning rugby most of the time). South Africa are very hard to judge but have lost far too many matches recently to be happy with their lot. Australia just lost another series at home to a horribly misfiring England; even taking into account all the disruption, they don't seem to have a clear plan and they did not play good rugby in any of the 3 Tests, including the one they won.

IMO this is a dreadful period of international rugby. I don't say this to denigrate the Irish - I think they're the gold standard right now for clarity of thought, clarity of coaching, and performance on the pitch. That used to be NZ's mantle.

I'd back NZ and SA to swing back faster than everyone else, but good lord there's some shit rugby being played at the moment.

I find that a pretty good post JMK, and just about sums up exactly how I see it. We are seeing a stage now where we seem to have 2 very strong teams in WR, and then a gap. Reminds a bit of late 80s, when ABs were very dominant, but maybe because the rest of world were not falsh for a few years. I also believe it will change again over nest few years, Ireland who are very good may struggle a little after WC, as may lose some very good players. France I think look in good place for a few yearsm having a tem that looks to be good for a few years.

[Gumboot]

Anyone know when the ABs squad will be named? Maybe team namings are now optional, like press conferences...

[average joe]

You lost at home to Wales for the first time ever and were not good by any stretch of the imagination in the other matches against them. In 2021 you lost 5 matches, including against shithouse England and at home (and away, natch) against even more shithouse Australia.

I have way too much respect for Saffer rugby to think that the current team isn't badly underperforming. Results and performances are not up to standard.

I'm honoured that you, an Englishman, would be so concerned for our team. There is always a first for anything though, even in Rugby. The All Blacks just lost a tour on home soil against Ireland. Who would ever have thought that possible?

Losing one game against Wales at home in a three match tour at the beginning of the season hardly bothers me, especially if that game was sacrificed in the name of development. Losing to shithouse England and Australia is nothing new. It hurts, especially against those two teams but it has happened before and will probably happen again some time in the future.

Yes, the All Blacks are currently more shite than they've been for decades. No-one's pretending they're not, though.

Do you think South Africa have played well in the last 12 months and are anywhere near playing to their historical standard and/or getting the most out of the abundant talent they have at their disposal?

We've previously lost games against all of you Northerners including fokon Japan so I don't know what historical standard you are measuring us against. I knew when people started mentioning a weak Wales that they were in for a surprise. The days of one or two teams ruling the roost is long gone.

[average joe]

Make all the $hark$ Springboks.

BLAH BLAH BLAH KNOW NOTHING BULLSHIT AND BLUSTER

Every Union receives funds from SA Rugby and because the Sharks have so many Springboks contracted they'll receive more than most other unions.

[Dan54]

Anyone know when the ABs squad will be named? Maybe team namings are now optional, like press conferences...

Well sometime before Monday I would guess, or whenever the injuries etc have been finalised? I would guess they would have to decide whether S Barrett and Caleb Clarke, Ofa etc are going to be able to play. You can bet the vast majority of players already know and would be getting ready to assemble, so would be last few.

[FalseBayFC]

I hope SA don't bottle it and give Foster a leg up... this dead horse has to be flogged until NZ Rugby do the right thing....

All part of the bigger plan bro. We lose big time in the RC this year to the AB's and then Foster stays. That means 3 shortarse loose forwards in the starting team and you continue experimenting with your midfield until next year.

[Gumboot]

Anyone know when the ABs squad will be named? Maybe team namings are now optional, like press conferences...

Well sometime before Monday I would guess, or whenever the injuries etc have been finalised? I would guess they would have to decide whether S Barrett and Caleb Clarke, Ofa etc are going to be able to play. You can bet the vast majority of players already know and would be getting ready to assemble, so would be last few.

Why not name the team then?

[Grandpa]

I hope SA don't bottle it and give Foster a leg up... this dead horse has to be flogged until NZ Rugby do the right thing....

All part of the bigger plan bro. We lose big time in the RC this year to the AB's and then Foster stays. That means 3 shortarse loose forwards in the starting team and you continue experimenting with your midfield until next year.

That's just malicious cunningness... and better not happen...

But it will.. I can just see SA turning up expecting a cakewalk.. and NZ ignoring Foster's coaching, to play out of their skin...

[Grandpa]

Anyone know when the ABs squad will be named? Maybe team namings are now optional, like press conferences...

Well sometime before Monday I would guess, or whenever the injuries etc have been finalised? I would guess they would have to decide whether S Barrett and Caleb Clarke, Ofa etc are going to be able to play. You can bet the vast majority of players already know and would be getting ready to assemble, so would be last few.

Why not name the team then?

Cause he isn't sure if he is still in charge?

Apparently Cane is to be removed as Captain to show the world that Foster and NZ Rugby mean business...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... ks-captain

[Guy Smiley]

Well sometime before Monday I would guess, or whenever the injuries etc have been finalised? I would guess they would have to decide whether S Barrett and Caleb Clarke, Ofa etc are going to be able to play. You can bet the vast majority of players already know and would be getting ready to assemble, so would be last few.

Why not name the team then?

Cause he isn't sure if he is still in charge?

Apparently Cane is to be removed as Captain to show the world that Foster and NZ Rugby mean business...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... ks-captain

Speculation...

but a little tender scapegoat over coals on a winter's night... well, it sets of the Pinot nicely.

[JM2K6]

I'm honoured that you, an Englishman, would be so concerned for our team. There is always a first for anything though, even in Rugby. The All Blacks just lost a tour on home soil against Ireland. Who would ever have thought that possible?

Losing one game against Wales at home in a three match tour at the beginning of the season hardly bothers me, especially if that game was sacrificed in the name of development. Losing to shithouse England and Australia is nothing new. It hurts, especially against those two teams but it has happened before and will probably happen again some time in the future.

Yes, the All Blacks are currently more shite than they've been for decades. No-one's pretending they're not, though.

Do you think South Africa have played well in the last 12 months and are anywhere near playing to their historical standard and/or getting the most out of the abundant talent they have at their disposal?

We've previously lost games against all of you Northerners including fokon Japan so I don't know what historical standard you are measuring us against. I knew when people started mentioning a weak Wales that they were in for a surprise. The days of one or two teams ruling the roost is long gone.

You've lost games against better teams in the past. You lost to a dreadful England team in the autumn. Wales are genuinely dogshit - they've run out of players and lost to fucking Italy.

Like I said, it's not just about the losses. Do you think SA are playing well? Are they getting the most out of the talent they have? From a neutral perspective, you've got a lot of good players and the team is massively underperforming.

[Sards]

You've lost games against better teams in the past. You lost to a dreadful England team in the autumn. Wales are genuinely dogshit - they've run out of players and lost to fucking Italy.

Like I said, it's not just about the losses. Do you think SA are playing well? Are they getting the most out of the talent they have? From a neutral perspective, you've got a lot of good players and the team is massively underperforming.

I am very underwhelmed. But like I said. The inclusion of a scrumhalf that doesn't box kick everything or an absolute dog shit Junkies is a positive step in the right direction. Just need some brains in our backline. Some of our backline players look and sound like they could be the missing link

[OomStruisbaai]

Make all the $hark$ Springboks.

BLAH BLAH BLAH KNOW NOTHING BULLSHIT AND BLUSTER

Every Union receives funds from SA Rugby and because the Sharks have so many Springboks contracted they'll receive more than most other unions.

I missed that post of Sards? Look like he edited it.

[boere wors]

Yes, the All Blacks are currently more shite than they've been for decades. No-one's pretending they're not, though.

Do you think South Africa have played well in the last 12 months and are anywhere near playing to their historical standard and/or getting the most out of the abundant talent they have at their disposal?

We've previously lost games against all of you Northerners including fokon Japan so I don't know what historical standard you are measuring us against. I knew when people started mentioning a weak Wales that they were in for a surprise. The days of one or two teams ruling the roost is long gone.

You've lost games against better teams in the past. You lost to a dreadful England team in the autumn. Wales are genuinely dogshit - they've run out of players and lost to fucking Italy.

Like I said, it's not just about the losses. Do you think SA are playing well? Are they getting the most out of the talent they have? From a neutral perspective, you've got a lot of good players and the team is massively underperforming.

You have given yourself the answer twice already. We are playing absolute dogshit. Fortunately, our opposition hasnt been much better. Coaching staff is clueless, desperately trying to hang on to the dull formula that won us the RWC in 2019. Yet, we are missing the fitness and 3 key players to do it, Francois Louw, Francois Steyn and RG Snyman.

[Dan54]

Anyone know when the ABs squad will be named? Maybe team namings are now optional, like press conferences...

Well sometime before Monday I would guess, or whenever the injuries etc have been finalised? I would guess they would have to decide whether S Barrett and Caleb Clarke, Ofa etc are going to be able to play. You can bet the vast majority of players already know and would be getting ready to assemble, so would be last few.

Why not name the team then?

Just a guess, but making sure everyone is fit? I don't really know, but they need to stop this shit of naming players they don't know if they are going to be fit, thinking Caleb Clarke, Akira atc atc that were named againt Irish, and Akira couldn't play first 2 tests etc, and Caleb none. They wouldn't want to name S Barrett I guessing without knowing if he right or not. As I said, I guessing the majority of team have been told and will be packing their gear now.

Well that's my guess, but I know exactly nothing anyway, just guessing.

[Gumboot]

Well, if the Stuff hack's to be believed most of the assistants and the captain are goners but Foster's safe. Which given the current state of NZR would be entirely predictable but still fucking ridiculous.

And yeah, I'm not a fan of picking injured players either.