Stop voting for fucking Tories

[fishfoodie]

Institutionally Corrupt !

Met admits not sending Boris Johnson questionnaires over Partygate gatherings

Force accused of ‘deferential policing’ after it confirms not seeking details from PM over two events before deciding not to fine him

Anger over the Partygate scandal has been reignited after Scotland Yard confirmed that it did not send questionnaires to Boris Johnson before deciding against fining him for attending two Downing Street lockdown gatherings.

Fines were issued to other attenders at the gatherings in 2020, including one at No 10 on 13 November, where the prime minister gave a leaving speech for his departing director of communications, Lee Cain, and another in the Cabinet Office on 17 December.

Downing Street has previously briefed that Johnson did not receive police questionnaires relating to some lockdown events. But the revelation on Monday is thought to be the first time the Metropolitan police has admitted this, under details released as part of a legal challenge.

...

So now we know why there was only a single fine.

[Torquemada 1420]

Rishi's political instincts are horrendous - yelling over a woman repeatedly is going to get him barbecued at an election.

I am so tempted to go all Citizen Khan.

[GogLais]

She’s missed a chance by not disowning ND’s remark re the price of suits.

[Slick]

Have to say, pretty impressed with Truss tonight

[GogLais]

Have to say, pretty impressed with Truss tonight

Certainly more fluent than the snatches I’ve seen of her in the past.

[C69]

Have to say, pretty impressed with Truss tonight

Certainly more fluent than the snatches I’ve seen of her in the past.

Impressed?
Or just not surprised she wasn't an embarrassment.

[GogLais]

Have to say, pretty impressed with Truss tonight

Certainly more fluent than the snatches I’ve seen of her in the past.

Impressed?
Or just not surprised she wasn't an embarrassment.

The latter although in a way it doesn't matter as I'm not going to vote Conservative anyway.

[C69]

Certainly more fluent than the snatches I’ve seen of her in the past.

Impressed?
Or just not surprised she wasn't an embarrassment.

The latter although in a way it doesn't matter as I'm not going to vote Conservative anyway.

Quite. So mediocre and so crass.

[Ovals]

It's all over bar the shouting - and there seems to be plenty of that around/ Truss is 4 to 1 on with one bookie - Rishi drifting towards 3 to 1 against. It's hard to see how Rishi could be in a Truss cabinet given his condemnation of her economic plans.

Dizzy Lizzie as PM - God help us.


I was speaking to a friend who is an aquaintance of someone who employed Pritti Patel before she became an MP. Evidently she was spending most of her time on her politcial goals and it was suggested to her that perhaps she should leave and go and 'not work' for someone else

[Paddington Bear]

Would echo that Truss surprised me, albeit from a very low base. Had only heard snippets of her before. Still think she’d be a poor PM on a number of levels.
Rishi I’m increasingly convinced would crash and burn at number 10 big time. Just doesn’t seem to have any political acumen now he’s not handing out billions

[I like neeps]

FAO JMK - did you catch Starmer dropping his pledge to nationalise public services today?

He's also just said public sector workers shouldn't get a payrise in line with inflation (pledged to stand up to public sector workers) and he's said that no borrowing to cover day to day expenditure - suggesting massive cuts.

As I said, as much of a liar as any Tory leadership contender. And on policy as much as a liar as Boris - just less of a c*nt.

[I like neeps]

Rishi's political instincts are horrendous - yelling over a woman repeatedly is going to get him barbecued at an election.

Absolutely

Truss doing much better tonight. She was rocking a bit on economics mind you

Her economic plan is total fantasy so that's not a surprise.

[sockwithaticket]

I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

[ASMO]

apparently 10,000 Conservative members have demanded the Slug be added to the Ballot for PM...just how mental are they?

[GogLais]

I imagine many of the Conservative party membership would be delighted with 7% interest rates.

[Slick]

I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

I think when it's the PM there is definitely an element of seeing how they might represent us on the world stage.

[Torquemada 1420]

Have to say, pretty impressed with Truss tonight

Certainly more fluent than the snatches I’ve seen of her in the past.

Says Boris re Angela Rayner?

[Torquemada 1420]

apparently 10,000 Conservative members have demanded the Slug be added to the Ballot for PM...just how mental are they?

This is the tip of the iceberg. Most pundits suggesting that huge swathes of rank and file unhappy at Boris's demise which is why both contenders are lying about how they felt towards him. It's also why Slimy Rishi is double dead
a) He backstabbed the glorious leader
b) He isn't far enough to the right of Goebbels.

Maybe triple dead in that hard line Tories more accepting of a woman (been done before) than a coolie.

[sturginho]

Rishi's political instincts are horrendous - yelling over a woman repeatedly is going to get him barbecued at an election.

But will probably play well with Tory party members

[Torquemada 1420]

I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

We are in the age of personality politics coupled with meejuh idolatory (Big Brother, Escape from the f**king whatever etc). I'd wager huge amounts of the population are swayed by this very sh*t.

[Torquemada 1420]

I imagine many of the Conservative party membership would be delighted with 7% interest rates.

From a purely personal perspective, I'd prefer Truss's economic approach which would force high interest rates to curb inflation over Slimy's attempts to kill small to medium sized businesses.

[GogLais]

I imagine many of the Conservative party membership would be delighted with 7% interest rates.

From a purely personal perspective, I'd prefer Truss's economic approach which would force high interest rates to curb inflation over Slimy's attempts to kill small to medium sized businesses.

I was slightly confused - doesn’t take much - when she said would start repaying the debt in three years time. If she believes COVID is a once in a hundred year event (debatable) then why so soon? She made it sound as though her low taxes are going to be a temporary boost rather than a long-term plan.

[sockwithaticket]

I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

I think when it's the PM there is definitely an element of seeing how they might represent us on the world stage.

But we already know that? Almost anyone high profile enough to be in the running has been in the media giving interviews countless times before. If anything, these dedicated events they prepare for give less of an impression of who they are and how they conduct themselves on a day to day basis than interview situations for which they often haven't had much time to prep (read slide the human suit over their reptilian scales...).

[Torquemada 1420]

I imagine many of the Conservative party membership would be delighted with 7% interest rates.

From a purely personal perspective, I'd prefer Truss's economic approach which would force high interest rates to curb inflation over Slimy's attempts to kill small to medium sized businesses.

I was slightly confused - doesn’t take much - when she said would start repaying the debt in three years time. If she believes COVID is a once in a hundred year event (debatable) then why so soon? She made it sound as though her low taxes are going to be a temporary boost rather than a long-term plan.

Oh. I don't think she knows what she's talking about. The cost of servicing the debt is now about 10% of GDP and that can only get worse unless there is zero further borrowing and/or payments increase over the rate of interest. Her former chum Rishi has dug the UK into a hole that can only be climbed out off by p*ssing off large portions of the electorate or all of them.

[Torquemada 1420]

I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

I think when it's the PM there is definitely an element of seeing how they might represent us on the world stage.

But we already know that? Almost anyone high profile enough to be in the running has been in the media giving interviews countless times before. If anything, these dedicated events they prepare for give less of an impression of who they are and how they conduct themselves on a day to day basis than interview situations for which they often haven't had much time to prep (read slide the human suit over their reptilian scales...).

Remember they are playing to the electorate too.

[sockwithaticket]

I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

We are in the age of personality politics coupled with meejuh idolatory (Big Brother, Escape from the f**king whatever etc). I'd wager huge amounts of the population are swayed by this very sh*t.

I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

[Slick]

I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

I think when it's the PM there is definitely an element of seeing how they might represent us on the world stage.

But we already know that? Almost anyone high profile enough to be in the running has been in the media giving interviews countless times before. If anything, these dedicated events they prepare for give less of an impression of who they are and how they conduct themselves on a day to day basis than interview situations for which they often haven't had much time to prep (read slide the human suit over their reptilian scales...).

I would have agreed but I have to be honest and say that Truss changed my opinion on her quite a bit last night. Still think she isn't PM material, but a bit closer than I thought before.

[GogLais]

I think when it's the PM there is definitely an element of seeing how they might represent us on the world stage.

But we already know that? Almost anyone high profile enough to be in the running has been in the media giving interviews countless times before. If anything, these dedicated events they prepare for give less of an impression of who they are and how they conduct themselves on a day to day basis than interview situations for which they often haven't had much time to prep (read slide the human suit over their reptilian scales...).

I would have agreed but I have to be honest and say that Truss changed my opinion on her quite a bit last night. Still think she isn't PM material, but a bit closer than I thought before.

Grudging agreement, with the major proviso of putting her policies to one side.

[GogLais]

From a purely personal perspective, I'd prefer Truss's economic approach which would force high interest rates to curb inflation over Slimy's attempts to kill small to medium sized businesses.

I was slightly confused - doesn’t take much - when she said would start repaying the debt in three years time. If she believes COVID is a once in a hundred year event (debatable) then why so soon? She made it sound as though her low taxes are going to be a temporary boost rather than a long-term plan.

Oh. I don't think she knows what she's talking about. The cost of servicing the debt is now about 10% of GDP and that can only get worse unless there is zero further borrowing and/or payments increase over the rate of interest. Her former chum Rishi has dug the UK into a hole that can only be climbed out off by p*ssing off large portions of the electorate or all of them.

The other thing is her solution to the problems that people are facing now is doing away with the NIC increase, which should have been on income tax, and scrapping the planned increase in Corporation Tax. They might or might not be good things but they’ll do very little for people in the short term. Just struck me that’s a point that wasn’t put to her last night and neither was the social care issue. Move aside Sophie and give me the red trouser suit and heels.

[Lobby]

I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

We are in the age of personality politics coupled with meejuh idolatory (Big Brother, Escape from the f**king whatever etc). I'd wager huge amounts of the population are swayed by this very sh*t.

I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

I was struck recently by a 'vox pop' interview on the BBC when Boris was being urged to resign; a young woman (probably mid 20s) was asked what she thought about the issue, and she said she wasn't really sure, and then admitted that she got all of her news from TikTok.

[yermum]

Great a generation of morons getting news from a source controlled by the CCP

this is fine.

[Torquemada 1420]

The other thing is her solution to the problems that people are facing now is doing away with the NIC increase, which should have been on income tax, and scrapping the planned increase in Corporation Tax. They might or might not be good things but they’ll do very little for people in the short term. Just struck me that’s a point that wasn’t put to her last night and neither was the social care issue. Move aside Sophie and give me the red trouser suit and heels.

Agreed. The NI bit being deferred has no impact for those on low incomes, benefits or retirees i.e. the most vulnerable anyway.

The CT increases were barking mad. Would have caused serious damage to small to medium businesses, many of who are already under stress due to COVID and all input cost rises related to Ukraine and Brexit. Of course, the real fix here would be to make large corporates like Barclays, Amazon, Vodafone etc pay some f**king tax....... but, of course, that's never happening.

[Torquemada 1420]

I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

Agreed but they are basically publicising their election manifestos which will filter down to those types who might then want to hold them to account?

Your bit in red is exactly what is wrong with first past the post and that is exasperated when we now have Yank style politics.

a) Some form of PR is needed. Who cares which? Any is better than this.
b) My preference? We live in a tech age. Elect whomever you like but any proposal that requires assent is put to the voters. We have an app and say yes or no. Decided by us and not a bunch of stooges who get a 5 year mandate to do whatever their party whips tell them.

[GogLais]

I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

Agreed but they are basically publicising their election manifestos which will filter down to those types who might then want to hold them to account?

Your bit in red is exactly what is wrong with first past the post and that is exasperated when we now have Yank style politics.

a) Some form of PR is needed. Who cares which? Any is better than this.
b) My preference? We live in a tech age. Elect whomever you like but any proposal that requires assent is put to the voters. We have an app and say yes or no. Decided by us and not a bunch of stooges who get a 5 year mandate to do whatever their party whips tell them.

Wouldn't a directly elected PM lead to more Yank type politics? The US has fixed terms, would we elect a new PM every time there happens to be a GE and what if we end up with a PM from a different party from the Gov't?
Trouble is, achieving major constitutional change in the UK seems almost impossible. Can't we just give PR a go for say ten years and see what happens? Unlikely to make things worse.
In the last para are you arguing for a referendum for all major Gov't policies? I'm not sure about that at all.

[Torquemada 1420]

Wouldn't a directly elected PM lead to more Yank type politics? The US has fixed terms, would we elect a new PM every time there happens to be a GE and what if we end up with a PM from a different party from the Gov't?
Trouble is, achieving major constitutional change in the UK seems almost impossible. Can't we just give PR a go for say ten years and see what happens? Unlikely to make things worse.
In the last para are you arguing for a referendum for all major Gov't policies? I'm not sure about that at all.

Sorry. Not what I meant.

Change to PR and let the party choose its titular head whatever way it wants. All issues that are of significance (so bare min. is anything now that required parliamentary consent) are voted on by the public on a case by case basis. Depower all these self serving c**ts.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

Agreed but they are basically publicising their election manifestos which will filter down to those types who might then want to hold them to account?

Your bit in red is exactly what is wrong with first past the post and that is exasperated when we now have Yank style politics.

a) Some form of PR is needed. Who cares which? Any is better than this.
b) My preference? We live in a tech age. Elect whomever you like but any proposal that requires assent is put to the voters. We have an app and say yes or no. Decided by us and not a bunch of stooges who get a 5 year mandate to do whatever their party whips tell them.

Fully agree. First past the post is busted. I was disappointed with how little traction AV got when it was put to the public, but I suppose Labour were still newly enough out of power then that they thought FPTP was still a route that could work for them. Without the support of at least one of the two main parties it wasn't going to go down well with voters.

I'm not sure I want the public voting on everything (Brexit will forever stand as an example of mass ignorance...), but MPs toeing the party line so as not to damage their chances of advancement is an issue. One that could be mitigated somewhat by PR and the existing parties splitting into smaller entities rather than trying to squeeze all their disparate beliefs under a couple of umbrellas.

[sockwithaticket]

We are in the age of personality politics coupled with meejuh idolatory (Big Brother, Escape from the f**king whatever etc). I'd wager huge amounts of the population are swayed by this very sh*t.

I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

I was struck recently by a 'vox pop' interview on the BBC when Boris was being urged to resign; a young woman (probably mid 20s) was asked what she thought about the issue, and she said she wasn't really sure, and then admitted that she got all of her news from TikTok.

I'd be surprised if she votes if she's that disengaged and that's another problem entirely.

[GogLais]

I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

Agreed but they are basically publicising their election manifestos which will filter down to those types who might then want to hold them to account?

Your bit in red is exactly what is wrong with first past the post and that is exasperated when we now have Yank style politics.

a) Some form of PR is needed. Who cares which? Any is better than this.
b) My preference? We live in a tech age. Elect whomever you like but any proposal that requires assent is put to the voters. We have an app and say yes or no. Decided by us and not a bunch of stooges who get a 5 year mandate to do whatever their party whips tell them.

Fully agree. First past the post is busted. I was disappointed with how little traction AV got when it was put to the public, but I suppose Labour were still newly enough out of power then that they thought FPTP was still a route that could work for them. Without the support of at least one of the two main parties it wasn't going to go down well with voters.

I'm not sure I want the public voting on everything (Brexit will forever stand as an example of mass ignorance...), but MPs toeing the party line so as not to damage their chances of advancement is an issue. One that could be mitigated somewhat by PR and the existing parties splitting into smaller entities rather than trying to squeeze all their disparate beliefs under a couple of umbrellas.

Thinking it through now, as it happened FPTP did bring about a coalition in 2010 so it seemed to be working at the time.
I’m afraid I’ve very little enthusiasm for the public voting directly on policies if only because it takes responsibility away from Parl’t.

[Torquemada 1420]

I'm not sure I want the public voting on everything (Brexit will forever stand as an example of mass ignorance...), but MPs toeing the party line so as not to damage their chances of advancement is an issue. One that could be mitigated somewhat by PR and the existing parties splitting into smaller entities rather than trying to squeeze all their disparate beliefs under a couple of umbrellas.

Sadly we either accept democracy or we don't. Personally, I'm with Hitler on this one: "the masses are incapable of rational decisions" but in absentia of a honest, beneficial dictatorship, living with stupidity is our best option.

One modification I would like to see on the people electing part is mandatory voting. However, each election card has a box which says "I think all of the above are sh*t" and unless any seat candidate gets 51% (say), then that seat is run again. That way we might see some better representation and development of ideas in politics as well as more meaningful local representation.

[Biffer]

I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

Agreed but they are basically publicising their election manifestos which will filter down to those types who might then want to hold them to account?

Your bit in red is exactly what is wrong with first past the post and that is exasperated when we now have Yank style politics.

a) Some form of PR is needed. Who cares which? Any is better than this.
b) My preference? We live in a tech age. Elect whomever you like but any proposal that requires assent is put to the voters. We have an app and say yes or no. Decided by us and not a bunch of stooges who get a 5 year mandate to do whatever their party whips tell them.

Fully agree. First past the post is busted. I was disappointed with how little traction AV got when it was put to the public, but I suppose Labour were still newly enough out of power then that they thought FPTP was still a route that could work for them. Without the support of at least one of the two main parties it wasn't going to go down well with voters.

I'm not sure I want the public voting on everything (Brexit will forever stand as an example of mass ignorance...), but MPs toeing the party line so as not to damage their chances of advancement is an issue. One that could be mitigated somewhat by PR and the existing parties splitting into smaller entities rather than trying to squeeze all their disparate beliefs under a couple of umbrellas.

Fundamentally, to change the voting system, you have to get past the 'but we're British, so the way we do it must be better than these Europeans bods' mentality. And you won't. So no one will vote for it.