What's going on in Ukraine?

[Jock42]

I guess it ends when putin or his replacement decides to end it. It is continuing because other wise Russia has to declare it a failure and a huge waste of resource much like the US in Vietnam. Possibly a controversial opinion but I actually thought Biden was right to call time on USA in Afghanistan. yes, it was humiliating for the west and shit for many of the people of Afghanistan. Unlike Afghanistan I think Ukraine can become a fully functioning democracy. Belarus as well if allowed could also become a proper democracy.

Not to derail the thread but it wasn't Biden it was trump. Biden might have changed the date slightly but trump signalling the end allowed the Taleban to assure cunts would roll when required.

[fishfoodie]

I guess it ends when putin or his replacement decides to end it. It is continuing because other wise Russia has to declare it a failure and a huge waste of resource much like the US in Vietnam. Possibly a controversial opinion but I actually thought Biden was right to call time on USA in Afghanistan. yes, it was humiliating for the west and shit for many of the people of Afghanistan. Unlike Afghanistan I think Ukraine can become a fully functioning democracy. Belarus as well if allowed could also become a proper democracy.

Not to derail the thread but it wasn't Biden it was trump. Biden might have changed the date slightly but trump signalling the end allowed the Taleban to assure cunts would roll when required

He couldn't/didn't even do that; he asked the CoS for options, & all they could offer, was that the US would re-designate the entire occupation forces as, "Embassy Guards", which would rightfully be interpreted by the Taliban as a breach of the original withdrawal agreement.

It was a clusterfuck from end to end; but it was always going to be one; you can't take a fractured, lawless, tribal society, & wave a magic wand, & turn it into a Democracy.

Ukraine is the complete opposite. It's already shown it is united, & it wants to be Democratic, & free; & even if there are things they need to improve, they are small beans compared to being willing to die to be free of murderous Dictators.

[TheFrog]

Looks like the Uk liberation of Kherson is not going to happen soon according to Denys.

It's to be expected. The best estimates I saw were end of August, early September. No easy matter get 100,000s of troops into action especially given the disparate training from the UK and elsewhere. They'll want the tanks that are coming in now, at least 250+ from various sources which they've got to get organised. And who knows just what's going to eventuate. A lot of other issues here.

I was reading that HIMARS are allowing Ukraine to fight the same battle they fought to save Kiev. Picking up strategic centers, destroying logistics and starving the enemy of fire power. May be they do not need to rush into offensive and can continue to wear out the Russian troops until they decide to retreat?

[Hellraiser]

[Hellraiser]

I guess it ends when putin or his replacement decides to end it. It is continuing because other wise Russia has to declare it a failure and a huge waste of resource much like the US in Vietnam. Possibly a controversial opinion but I actually thought Biden was right to call time on USA in Afghanistan. yes, it was humiliating for the west and shit for many of the people of Afghanistan. Unlike Afghanistan I think Ukraine can become a fully functioning democracy. Belarus as well if allowed could also become a proper democracy.

Ukraine for all it's faults is a fully functioning democracy. In the 31 years since the fall of the Soviet Union only one president, Yanukovych, has tried to turn Ukraine into a strongman Russian puppet state.

[Flockwitt]

Looks like the Uk liberation of Kherson is not going to happen soon according to Denys.

It's to be expected. The best estimates I saw were end of August, early September. No easy matter get 100,000s of troops into action especially given the disparate training from the UK and elsewhere. They'll want the tanks that are coming in now, at least 250+ from various sources which they've got to get organised. And who knows just what's going to eventuate. A lot of other issues here.

I was reading that HIMARS are allowing Ukraine to fight the same battle they fought to save Kiev. Picking up strategic centers, destroying logistics and starving the enemy of fire power. May be they do not need to rush into offensive and can continue to wear out the Russian troops until they decide to retreat?

Could be a very long and very expensive wait. Just like the West tends to overestimate Russia's combat capabilities they underestimate their capability to deal with crap. More importantly though it's fundamentally the same concept as having complete air superiority. Regardless of how dominant your air force is at some point you need boots on the ground and the same applies here. The Ukrainians are going to have to physically repossess the captured territory.

[tabascoboy]

The ferry that is currently having to be used in place of the damaged unusable bridge near Kherson, not much of a replacement...

[yermum]

The Kiev front collapsed quickly. Once the Russians realised they were in a unwinnable position they GTFO double quick.

The Russian army is not the Red army fighting a war of survival against the Nazis. There is ample evidence of very low morale in the Russian forces with troops refusing to fight and Wagner Mercs being posted to positions to maintain the front.



this thread from Mick Ryan goes into the Ukrainian strategy of corrosion.

"This strategy of corrosion sees #Ukraine attacking the Russians where they are weak, while also using some of their combat power to delay and frustrate Russian combat forces. It extends beyond tactics & operations - as I noted before, it also attacks Russian military strategy."

[Hellraiser]

[Hellraiser]

[tabascoboy]

Russian propagandists continuing to believe everyone outside their own nation is unable to think rationally, as called out here

[Niegs]

The ferry that is currently having to be used in place of the damaged unusable bridge near Kherson, not much of a replacement...

The way things are going, I half expected to see that ferry being pulled by mules.

[fishfoodie]

The ferry that is currently having to be used in place of the damaged unusable bridge near Kherson, not much of a replacement...

The way things are going, I half expected to see that ferry being pulled by mules.

Do the Ukrainians know what a, "Missouri Boat Ride", is ?

[Flockwitt]

Life ain't no bed of roses in the trenches...

https://twitter.com/proudukraine/status ... 8700891136

[TheFrog]

It's to be expected. The best estimates I saw were end of August, early September. No easy matter get 100,000s of troops into action especially given the disparate training from the UK and elsewhere. They'll want the tanks that are coming in now, at least 250+ from various sources which they've got to get organised. And who knows just what's going to eventuate. A lot of other issues here.

I was reading that HIMARS are allowing Ukraine to fight the same battle they fought to save Kiev. Picking up strategic centers, destroying logistics and starving the enemy of fire power. May be they do not need to rush into offensive and can continue to wear out the Russian troops until they decide to retreat?

Could be a very long and very expensive wait. Just like the West tends to overestimate Russia's combat capabilities they underestimate their capability to deal with crap. More importantly though it's fundamentally the same concept as having complete air superiority. Regardless of how dominant your air force is at some point you need boots on the ground and the same applies here. The Ukrainians are going to have to physically repossess the captured territory.

What I mean is that they may not have to fight a full head on battle but the Russians may pull out if they feel at risk like they did in the North?

[Blake]

Life ain't no bed of roses in the trenches...

https://twitter.com/proudukraine/status ... 8700891136

Poor bastards. I guess the only consolation is that the Ruskies are likely even more miserable

[tabascoboy]

Hope this is true

Russia Blows Up Its Ammunition While Trying to Hide From HIMARS: Report

Russian soldiers reportedly blew up their own ammunition while unloading train cars under the cover of a smoke screen meant to hide the process from view and protect them from HIMARS attacks, according to Ukrainian intelligence.

The Main Directorate of Intelligence of Ukraine's Defense Ministry said in a new report Tuesday that the explosion took place on Monday. A train with military equipment and ammunition for Russian forces arrived at the Kalanchak station in Ukraine's Kherson region on Sunday, and the personnel began unloading the next morning, the report said. An explosion was reportedly heard in the work area at about 11:20 a.m. local time.

Immediately after the explosion, the convoy of train cars began moving in the direction of Crimea "without any warning," and Russia's personnel "scattered in panic," according to the report. While the intelligence agency said that it was not possible to determine the nature of the explosion, it presumed that it was due to "careless" handling of the ammunition or a fire "that arose as a result of inept use of pyrotechnics during the creation of a smoke screen."

The HIMARS, an acronym for M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, that Ukraine said Russia was trying to hide from using the smoke screen have been praised by U.S. and Ukrainian officials for their effectiveness in the counteroffensive. The Biden administration announced Monday that it was sending more HIMARS ammunition to Ukraine as part of a new $550 million security assistance package.

[dkm57]

Hope this is true

Russia Blows Up Its Ammunition While Trying to Hide From HIMARS: Report

Russian soldiers reportedly blew up their own ammunition while unloading train cars under the cover of a smoke screen meant to hide the process from view and protect them from HIMARS attacks, according to Ukrainian intelligence.

The Main Directorate of Intelligence of Ukraine's Defense Ministry said in a new report Tuesday that the explosion took place on Monday. A train with military equipment and ammunition for Russian forces arrived at the Kalanchak station in Ukraine's Kherson region on Sunday, and the personnel began unloading the next morning, the report said. An explosion was reportedly heard in the work area at about 11:20 a.m. local time.

Immediately after the explosion, the convoy of train cars began moving in the direction of Crimea "without any warning," and Russia's personnel "scattered in panic," according to the report. While the intelligence agency said that it was not possible to determine the nature of the explosion, it presumed that it was due to "careless" handling of the ammunition or a fire "that arose as a result of inept use of pyrotechnics during the creation of a smoke screen."

The HIMARS, an acronym for M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, that Ukraine said Russia was trying to hide from using the smoke screen have been praised by U.S. and Ukrainian officials for their effectiveness in the counteroffensive. The Biden administration announced Monday that it was sending more HIMARS ammunition to Ukraine as part of a new $550 million security assistance package.

Oh what a shame,
there there,
never mind.

[tabascoboy]

IAEA chief Grossi concerned about Ukrainian nuclear power plant

The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has described the situation at Ukraine's Russian-occupied nuclear power plant in Zaporizhzhya as highly volatile and fragile.

All the principles of nuclear safety have been violated in one way or another, Rafael Grossi told a press conference at the UN headquarters in New York late Tuesday.

With six units and a capacity of 6,000 megawatts, the plant in the city of Enerhodar in Zaporizhzhya province is the largest nuclear power plant in Europe.

An IAEA inspection to check technical safety is urgently needed, Grossi said. But it is currently very difficult for the IAEA to even get to the war zone in Zaporizhzhya. For this, the IAEA not only needs the consent of Ukraine and the support of the United Nations, it would also have to come to an agreement with Russia as the occupier of the site.

Russian troops had occupied the plant at the beginning of March. After that, the nuclear power plant continued to be operated by Ukrainian personnel but monitored by Russian nuclear specialists.

Earlier this week, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken had also expressed deep concern on the part of the U.S. government. He said there were credible reports that Russia was using the facility near Zaporizhzhya as a kind of shield, namely firing on Ukrainian forces from near the facility.

The Ukrainians, on the other hand, cannot fire back because this could lead to a terrible nuclear accident, Blinken said.

[Hellraiser]

[yermum]

Old soldiers never die...

[tabascoboy]

[petej]

Are the Russians really stupid enough to try to hold the west bank of Dnipro near kherson and risk troops and equipment being cut off?

[yermum]

All signs so far point to yes.

[tabascoboy]

[tabascoboy]

Long thread of tweets but worth reading



to cherry-pick a couple

Russians ‘attacking only military’ is a myth. Soviet military-industrial complex existed *within* towns and cities, partially to provide for the area (it creates jobs), partially of necessity (like when some factories were evacuated from affected areas to Central Asia in WWII). Russians know it, and when they don’t know, they don’t care. They use outdated Soviet maps and attack areas from which military quarters/factories are long gone. Why attack them anyways while using maps from the 60s? Because terror is a huge part of it.

[tabascoboy]

[yermum]

Why yes that is a land based SAM Tor strapped to the deck of a modern Russian patrol boat...

The Russian Navy has and always will be a joke

[Hellraiser]

[Hellraiser]

Why yes that is a land based SAM Tor strapped to the deck of a modern Russian patrol boat...

The Russian Navy has and always will be a joke

They started doing that about two months ago.

[tabascoboy]

Quite a long post with some supporting images, source is US journalist but considered reasonably sensible and reliable

Ukraine Update: Russian lines recede south of Izyum as Russia rushes to potential Kherson trap

Finally, I’ll leave you guys with a thought for further exploration—

Note how quietly Ukraine has approached its limited tactical counteroffensives around Izyum, in southern Donbas, and this new one around Kharkiv. Now compare that to Kherson, where everyone in Ukraine hasn’t shut up about their supposedly imminent counteroffensive. Even President Volodymyr Zelenskyy made a big speech about “ordering” his armed forces to take Kherson back, as if the Ukrainian army was confused about their job.

If the intent was to panic the Russians into reinforcing the region, it’s been a smashing success. Russia has already moved between a quarter and a third of its total combat forces in Ukraine to the area, and according to video on Telegram, troops and equipment continue to stream in.

[Flockwitt]

I wouldn't necessarily read too much into it. It was noted days ago that Russia has been steadily pulling troops out of Izyum to refocus elsewhere. And I remember seeing back in April one pundit speculating that the final borders that Russia would look to hold were the two oblasts with the natural line of the Donetsk river running north i.e. Izyum with its forests and exposure north, west and south was never a sensible place to look to hold long term.

Right now the Russians are getting the steady gains they want in Bakmut. Which is all they can do given their limited resources, and they've chosen to double down in Kherson, which is hopefully a massive mistake, but a current political requirement.

[ia801310]

Long thread of tweets but worth reading



to cherry-pick a couple

Russians ‘attacking only military’ is a myth. Soviet military-industrial complex existed *within* towns and cities, partially to provide for the area (it creates jobs), partially of necessity (like when some factories were evacuated from affected areas to Central Asia in WWII). Russians know it, and when they don’t know, they don’t care. They use outdated Soviet maps and attack areas from which military quarters/factories are long gone. Why attack them anyways while using maps from the 60s? Because terror is a huge part of it.

Amnesty are getting rightly hammered for this

[ia801310]

Well done Amnesty, you've shown the world your true colours

[ia801310]

Lads Amnesty jumped the shark years ago. If it was announced the Russians had a load of Kompromat on its various misfit board and staff members it would be the least surprising thing since it was announced Fred West was stepped down from the Miss Teen Gloucestershire committee

A "highbrow Stop the War Coalition" is the perfect description for Amnesty International. if there is one positive from the War in Ukraine it that is is shown up the the likes of Amnesty International and Stop the War Coalition for who they really are.

[Jock42]

I'm pretty embarrassed that has ended up online

You based at Mellville Barracks?

[Hellraiser]

It's a shit show. I see a comment on that from a SuzyQ which must be a fake account. She says some shite about him.supporting 'ZioNacis'. Presume that is meant to be Nazis and when you go on her page it is just stupid retweets of Corbyn is great, Keir Starmer owns a football club and should resign and NATO, the UK and EU have made the energy crisis to blah blah blah. How the fuck has government and Twitter and all us sane people allowed the online space be so subverted

How? Most of us aren't unemployed smoothly brains with too much time on our hands.

[Hellraiser]

[tabascoboy]

[tabascoboy]

Mysterious goings on, of course Russia blaming Ukraine and vice versa. It is reported that Russia have been using this plant - which they occupy - as a shield for storage of munitions and weaponry etc, but hard to believe that either side would risk causing a major incident. And naturally both sides claim the other is preventing IAEA officials from visiting to assess the situation as neutrals. Recently Russia have been making noises which have previously preceded similar attempted false flags, or trying to cover up an accident? The Power Plant looks far too distant from the front line to be vulnerable to UA short range artillery - leaving either drone attacks or long range fire as a possibility, but again why?

Russians shell Zaporizhzhia NPP again, leaving one employee wounded

7 August, 2022 290

The occupying forces again launched rocket attacks on the site of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant on August 6. They hit near the station's dry spent nuclear fuel cask storage facility. One of the employees of the station was injured, reported Energoatom, the state enterprise responsible for the operation of all nuclear stations in the country.

The company believes that Russians aimed precisely at dry cask storage containers with spent nuclear fuel, which is stored in the open near the sites of shelling. In total, there are 174 containers, each with 24 assemblies of spent nuclear fuel.

As a result of the shelling, three radiation monitoring sensors around the site were damaged. Energoatom explains that it is now impossible to detect and react in a timely manner in case of deterioration of the radiation situation or leakage of radiation from containers of spent nuclear fuel.

About 800 square meters of window surfaces in various buildings of the station were damaged due to numerous small fragments from the explosions. As a result of the explosions, an employee of the ZNPP also received a shrapnel wound. He was hospitalized.

Energoatom assures that all Russian military personnel and personnel of the Russian Rosatom hid in advance in the plant's bunkers. In total, up to 500 Russian military personnel have been at the ZNPP site since the day it was captured.

The invaders also fired near the territory of the lightweight steel factory and at the water intake of the city of Enerhodar.

Background

After the occupiers attacked the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant on August 5, the power unit there was turned off. As of the morning of August 6, the ZNPP was operating with the risk of violating radiation and fire safety standards.

Energoatom said that as a result of the attack, the nitrogen-oxygen station and the combined auxiliary building were seriously damaged. There are also risks of hydrogen leakage and sputtering of radioactive substances, and the fire hazard is high.

In addition, the Russian military "hid" in the basements of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant — they occupied all the basements where they hide from shelling. Regional governor Oleksandr Starukh said that after two power lines were damaged as a result of the Russians' attack on the ZNPP, a fire broke out, which was extinguished by employees of the State Emergency Service.

Citing its source, The Insider writes that the Russian occupying forces were probably replacing the engine room of one of the power units of the ZNPP. And according to another source of the publication, the territory around the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant has been mined.

Reaction

The Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Rafael Grossi, expressed his concern over the shelling of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant captured by the occupiers of Ukraine and called on all parties to exercise maximum restraint.

At the same time, the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said that Russian terrorists have become the first in the world to use a nuclear power plant, the largest in Europe, for terror. He assured that Ukraine will draw the world's attention to this and insist on new sanctions against Russia.

The president also criticized the human rights organization Amnesty International, which did not officially react to the shelling of the Zaporizhzhia NPP by Russian troops, although before that it accused the Ukrainian military of endangering civilians.

The High Representative of the EU for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Josep Borrell, also condemned the actions of the Russians.

"This is a serious and irresponsible breach of nuclear safety rules and another example of Russia’s disregard for international norms," ​​he stressed.